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England Squad announced..

  • 07-08-2010 8:40pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭


    Well first England squad announced since the World Cup, some interesting call ups and three Arsenal players in the squad :eek:


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8894651.stm

    Goalkeepers: Ben Foster (Birmingham), Joe Hart (Manchester City), Paul Robinson (Blackburn)

    Defenders: Wes Brown (Manchester United), Gary Cahill (Bolton), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Michael Dawson (Tottenham Hotspur), Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Glen Johnson (Liverpool), John Terry (Chelsea)

    Midfielders: Gareth Barry (Manchester City), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Manchester City), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), James Milner (Aston Villa), Ashley Young (Aston Villa), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)

    Forwards: Darren Bent (Sunderland), Carlton Cole (West Ham United), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Bobby Zamora (Fulham)


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,763 ✭✭✭Jax Teller


    No Defoe he injured or something ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    probably just trying out some new players

    surprised theres no agbonlahor tbh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,153 ✭✭✭everdead.ie


    Defoe has a groin strain although they do need to use this an opportunity to see what other players can do they already know what the old guard can do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭TonyD79


    Wheres the holding midfielder?? Cappello will never learn!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If Wemberly is more than half full I'll eat my hat dinner.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    Unless he's injured Huddlestone surely merits a spot, given the lack of other deep lying English midfielders in the squad/available?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭matrim


    Helix wrote: »
    probably just trying out some new players

    surprised theres no agbonlahor tbh

    Could be because he has a slight knock and hasn't played much in pre-season


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,763 ✭✭✭Jax Teller


    Bit silly wilshere been in and rodwell not


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭Dr. Nick


    TonyD79 wrote: »
    Wheres the holding midfielder?? Cappello will never learn!!!

    He had RTE WC analysis recorded ;)

    No need for defensive midfielders again, ever, Ronnie and Gilesey said so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭The Floyd p


    Wish Parker was there :(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭joe123


    No Joe Cole :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    Dr. Nick wrote: »
    He had RTE WC analysis recorded ;)

    No need for defensive midfielders again, ever, Ronnie and Gilesey said so.

    That is far from what they said. People should listen to what they actually say, not what they imagine they said. They just pointed out the fallacy of this idea that has taken hold in England post-Makelele that a defensive midfielder is somebody who just destroys attacks and nothing else. Midfielders in that role have the most important position in terms of ball retention.

    This is a great article describing the above in more detail. I've quoted most of the text but it much better to follow the link as the charts, videos etc are there. Now I do not believe that Carrick is anything but an average midfielder but he is the only English midfielder over 21 who tries to play in central midfield in that manner.

    http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/30/central-midfield-role/
    It’s this year’s must-have for any side looking to finish near the top of the Premier League: a player who prompts the question, ‘What does he do?’

    This man is a central midfielder. He’s not a tackler, nor is he a creator. He doesn’t score many goals – in fact, he rarely looks to get into the box. So what does he do? It’s a question asked by Arsenal fans about Denilson. It’s a question asked by Manchester United fans, about Michael Carrick.

    And it’s not just the fans who ask. Britain’s most famous football pundit, Alan Hansen, has the same question about Jon Obi Mikel, who started the majority of games at the heart of Chelsea’s midfield as they won the Premier League lastseason. “What does John Obi Mikel do?”, asks Hansen.

    So there we have it. The best three teams in one of the world’s best leagues all field a player in the centre of their team who apparently has no specific purpose.

    History

    Claude Makelele is the key man in all this. Whilst at Real Madrid he was declared ‘the most important player at the club’ by various teammates who depended on his steady, reliable presence in the centre of the pitch. Unfortunately, one man who didn’t value his contribution was club President Florentino Perez. Makelele was paid far less than the ‘Galacticos’, Perez refused to give him a more lucrative contract, and Makelele opted to leave for Chelsea.

    Perez was scathing after the Frenchman’s departure, saying, “We will not miss Makelele. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn’t a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres.” Which, of course, entirely missed the point, and he was widely criticized for his ignorance.

    After making an immediate impact at Chelsea, pundits were queueing up to express their admiration for Makelele. By the very nature of being classed as ‘underrated’ by everyone, Makelele ceased to become underrated. There was no-one left who didn’t rate him.

    In fact, it probably went the other way – his position was given the name ‘The Makelele role’, as if he had either invented the role, or brought a particularly new slant to it. Articles like this one - “To this day, I still believe that Real Madrid won the 2002 Champions League because of one man, and one man only…Frenchman Claude Makelele” – eventually managed to actually overrate Makelele, for that ‘one-man team’ statement is not true of any side in history, not even Maradona’s Argentina in 1986. It’s no less ludicrous than Perez’s view.

    The strange thing is, no-one ever clarified what ‘the Makelele role’ actually meant. It certainly referred to a defensive midfielder, but did he have to be alone in that position? Was Makelele playing ‘the Makelele role’ when fielded alongside Patrick Vieira for France?


    Regardless, his impact sparked a sudden obsession with deep-lying central midfielders. Furthermore, after his debut season at Chelsea, the astonishing victories of first Porto and then Greece at European level promoted the virtues of defensive-minded football. Premier League teams looking to play 4-5-1 formations simply took out a striker and used another central midfielder instead.

    Even Real Madrid realised their error in trying to play without a defensive midfielder, and bizarrely signed Thomas Gravesen from Everton. This rather ignored the fact that he wasn’t a holding player (he merely had the appearance and disciplinary record of one). As Oliver Kay said at the time, “While Gravesen might have produced more tackles than any of his Everton team-mates this season, a holding player he is not. At Everton, in fact, he requires a ball-winner, Lee Carsley, to do his legwork and to cover him on his charges upfield…his aggression is not of the type that will break down opposition attacks like that of Claude Makelele, whom Real sold to Chelsea without a second thought in 2003.“

    And yet, four years later, we’re back to the pre-Makelele situation. In England, no-one has any respect for modern central midfielders.

    Change in emphasis

    The deep-lying central midfield role has changed, even in the short seven years since Makelele’s move to Chelsea. The first factor to consider here is the decline in the use of classic number 10s. We’re seeing less of players in the Zinedine Zidane and Manuel Rui Costa mould, and more like Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi – who are capable of playing centrally, but generally start from wide roles. Without a designated central playmaker to stop, managers are less insistent on fielding a ‘tackler’ deep in midfield to stop him, and we have fewer simple ‘creator v destroyer’ battles.

    Makelele himself was a tackler, a man described in a piece by Sam Wallace as a “ferocious midfield terrier”. Makelele clearly thought tackling was his main job, saying “You just enjoy it, you enjoy playing football, tackling, giving the ball. When you are small you have to tackle at the right moment. He might be tall, he might be strong but if you tackle at the right moment you’ll win it.”

    This is now more difficult, because hard tackling continues to be stamped out through stringent refereeing; we increasingly see free-kicks given for ‘reckless’ challenges that would have been deemed fair just a decade ago. There’s a reason Javier Mascherano, an old-style tackling defensive midfielder, had the worst disciplinary record in the Premier League last season.

    This is the first part of the story. The second part involves attacking tactics – now more than ever before based around short, quick passing in the final third. Therefore, intercepting is the new tackling. It’s not as spectacular, not as obvious, it won’t get the supporters on their feet (nowhere traditionally cheers a crunching tackle as much as English football terraces), but it’s just as useful. More so, in fact: by intercepting a pass to the player you’re marking, rather than tackling him when he gets the ball, you’re not risking a free-kick or a booking. You’re immediately in possession, whereas after a tackle, the ball can run away to an opponent. And there’s more chance of launching a quick counter-attack, and transforming defence into attack swiftly.

    Taking the games between the Premiership’s so-called ‘Big Four’ last season, there were more successful interceptions than successful (non-aerial) tackles per game:

    46.1 compared to 38.9 is not a huge difference, but large enough to consider intercepting a more important way of gaining possession than tackling.

    We can also find that the number of successful tackles in these games has declined in recent years, from 46.3 in 2006/07 to 38.9 in 2009/10:

    Again, given the relatively small sample size, the importance of this finding could be disputed, but it’s still quite a large drop within just four seasons.

    Of course, the most obvious comparison to make would be between the number of interceptions in these games in 2006/07 and 2009/10. Unfortunately, OPTA have made a slight but crucial change in the definition of an ‘interception’ in that time, and therefore the comparison is invalid (for the record, the number of interceptions increased by around 200%).

    Nevertheless, the discoveries that (a) there are more interceptions than tackles, and (b) the number of successful tackles per game is falling, gives weight to the idea that the art of intercepting is increasing in importance, and the concept of tackling is declining.

    The key in all this? Positioning – footballing intelligence, knowing where to be, and when to be there. That is the area of the game that hasn’t changed much since Makelele’s arrival in England, and that was his biggest strength – he was never caught out high up the pitch, he was always on hand to break up attacks through the centre.

    Distribution

    This is where the central midfielder gets the most attention, and also the most criticism. The popularity of ‘the passer’ amongst managers owes much to the decline of two-striker formations, with 4-5-1s (more specifically, 4-2-3-1s and 4-3-3-s) favoured. In basic terms, this simply means an extra midfield spot available, and hence the destroyer-creator model was amended to give a destroyer-passer-creator system in the centre of midfield.

    There is a more complex angle, for it also requires a different way of playing, This is summed up well by Sir Alex Ferguson. “The idea behind the 4-5-1 is that you can control the midfield and keep possession of the ball – that’s always your aim when you use that formation. I believe the team that has possession of the ball has more opportunities to win the match. As for the 4-4-2, there is more emphasis in that formation placed on playing the ball forward…playing 4-5-1 requires a lot of patience.”

    So from that short passage, we know that a manager wants ball retention and patience from central midfielders. Sideways passes are fine – there is less need these days to play the ball forward quickly. This nicely responds to the constant criticism of these players – that their passing is short and unambitious, a view which is rather similar to Perez’s thoughts about Makelele.

    Here’s Michael Carrick’s passing Chalkboard from Manchester United’s 2-1 win over Liverpool, his final complete game of last season:

    Granted, there are a few stray passes. But Carrick is still essentially doing what his manager asks him to – keeping possession of the ball. The misplaced passes are always more notable than the completed ones, but that’s because we’ve become so accustomed to central midfielders being excellent ball players.

    Carrick is the man who has suffered most from the lack of appreciation for ball-playing midfielders in England. In Spain, the masters of possession football, he is much more popular. Take the views of Spain’s best two passers – firstly Xabi Alonso:

    “If they are on top of their game and if Carrick plays, because for me he is a top player, then England will have a chance. If Carrick plays for the national team the way that he does for Manchester United, then it would be very good news for England. I think that he could easily fit in the Spanish system because I really like the way he plays. He reads the game so well, he is always ahead of what is going to happen and he is always in the right position. When he gets the ball, he plays it easy and he is available to his team-mates all the time. For me, he has the profile to play for Barcelona or any of the Spanish teams. He would also be very complimentary to Stevie.”

    And then Xavi:

    “Carrick gives United balance and can play defensively too. He passes well, has a good shot and is a complete player.”

    Part of the problem, of course, is that the role consists of numerous small tasks. It’s often difficult to notice the impact of these players unless concentrating intently on the game. But when an entire night’s work is compiled into one video, a basic job can become beautiful. Here’s Carrick in the World Cup second round in 2006.

    The longer you watch, the more simple distribution becomes impressive. The key is not always in the actual pass, but (as Alan Hansen points out in the Carrick video), the initial control. That’s an area of these players’ game often overlooked – Busquets, for example, is a tremendously skilful player – see some of his moves in Barcelona’s win over Villarreal in January in the first minute of this video:

    But Busquets’ main job is far simpler, of course. “Receive, pass, offer, receive, pass, offer” is the Barcelona mantra for midfielders.

    Football is largely moving towards that system of playing football, and for as long as ball retention is seen as important, the steady, unspectacular central midfielder will continue to prosper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭Gillington


    Friendlies like this they should be playing all the relatively untested players imo

    Hart

    Johnson Cahill Jagielka Gibbs

    Walcott Wilshere Milner A.Johnson

    Zamora C.Cole

    now i'd watch it if they played something like that,sick of seeing Wayne bleedin Rooney!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭MementoMori


    joe123 wrote: »
    No Joe Cole :confused:

    Bet you if he signed for Spurs he'd be there.;)

    Am I the only who reckons that over the last 20 years the FA have shown a fairly sizeable bias towards Spurs players over all other clubs when it comes to selecting England squads.

    Walcott ahead of him = mockadious tbh

    Feck it tis a positive for Liverpool.

    Fingers crossed he'll retire along with Gerrard and Johnson


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    matrim wrote: »
    Could be because he has a slight knock and hasn't played much in pre-season

    oh aye yeh thats true


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    Bet you if he signed for Spurs he'd be there.;)

    Am I the only who reckons that over the last 20 years the FA have shown a fairly sizeable bias towards Spurs players over all other clubs when it comes to selecting England squads.

    Walcott ahead of him = mockadious tbh

    Feck it tis a positive for Liverpool.

    Fingers crossed he'll retire along with Gerrard and Johnson

    Looks like a squad with an eye on the future. Cole is yesterday's man in terms of Euro 2012 and beyond. Better to try new players in a friendly like this. Not much benefit in playing the same players and expecting a different result.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭MementoMori


    Looks like a squad with an eye on the future. Cole is yesterday's man in terms of Euro 2012 and beyond. Better to try new players in a friendly like this. Not much benefit in playing the same players and expecting a different result.

    Compared to Gerrard and Lampard......how many mins did he play at the WC again.

    Joe is only 28 and seems a pretty decent shout for the next WC whereas a lot of the other stalwards don't


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Compared to Gerrard and Lampard......how many mins did he play at the WC again.

    Joe is only 28 and seems a pretty decent shout for the next WC whereas a lot of the other stalwards don't

    Would agree, also he really should consider dropping Gerrard or Lampard for the match, ,personally I would give Lampard the nod, but shouldn't play the both of them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,470 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Wilshere being there is a PR exercise IMO; he's not deserving yet.

    no Rodwell or Huddlestone is a big surprise, and mistake IMO, unless they're injured. no way Wilshere's more deserving than either of them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,815 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    Bet you if he signed for Spurs he'd be there.;)

    Am I the only who reckons that over the last 20 years the FA have shown a fairly sizeable bias towards Spurs players over all other clubs when it comes to selecting England squads.

    Walcott ahead of him = mockadious tbh

    Feck it tis a positive for Liverpool.

    Fingers crossed he'll retire along with Gerrard and Johnson




    More to do with the fact that Spurs are always inclined to sign English players when possible so therefore there is a better chance of some of their players being picked.

    And why just question Joe Coles absence when only 10 out of 23 from the WC survived.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,457 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm delighted to see Robbo get back in the picture, pity for Green. Why is Foster getting picked? He made a couple of mistakes last season, surely Scott Carson should be ahead of him at the present time, especially if he is dropping Green for his mistake.

    I can't believe that those Arsenal players are in the squad.

    Wilshere is only 18 and a player who looks like he has an big future ahead of him but he is not first choice at his club and until that happens he should not be in the England squad.

    Gibbs has been out injured since before last Christmas, how on earth do you bring him in based on a couple of games to date? Again he is not even first choice.

    Walcott also is not first choice at his club and there are so many good players that can play his position better than he can that I don't see any need to call him up.

    Like in all fairness if you want to call these lads up then why isn't Fabrice Muamba getting a look or Jack Rodwell, Ryan Shawcross, Jordan Henderson and Lee Cattermole? Oh and young Tom Cleverley who was player of the year at Watford in his loan year there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    Compared to Gerrard and Lampard......how many mins did he play at the WC again.

    Joe is only 28 and seems a pretty decent shout for the next WC whereas a lot of the other stalwards don't

    He has always been a nearly man for me. Never really done anything to merit the reputation he has developed. As a free he is worth a go for Liverpool (thought Fergie might get him as a bench warmer) but he has never had much end product.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Trying to think what other options England have for the right back slot?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,457 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Trying to think what other options England have for the right back slot?
    Its a problem spot for them alright, Micah Richards is the only one I can think of off hand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Trying to think what other options England have for the right back slot?

    Phil Neville would be a decent back up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Would give both the above a go ahead of Johnson, see how they work out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,457 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Hopefully in two years time there will be a guy called Jackson Ramm playing for Blackburn at right back, really promising younster who just turned 17 in May. He did really well for the reserves last year and I expect he might be breaking into the senior squad come the end of the season if he continues to improve. He was Allardyce's first signing when he came to Blackburn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Hopefully in two years time there will be a guy called Jackson Ramm playing for Blackburn at right back, really promising younster who just turned 17 in May. He did really well for the reserves last year and I expect he might be breaking into the senior squad come the end of the season if he continues to improve. He was Allardyce's first signing when he came to Blackburn.

    Was thinking about the England team over the summer and in particular the current defense, was a time when England really were blessed at the back, I really don't think a huge amount of the current defense,apart from Cole, so will be interesting to see what kids are waiting to come through.

    Think Gibbs will be an excellent player, was threatening to break into Arsenals first team before he got injured.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭peejay1986


    I think this squad stinks of desperation from Capello. Not a desperation born from ability, but a desperation to get the nation's 'supporters' on his side. The new players in the squad are crazy, well, some of them anyway.

    Ok I understand the whole 'give the in-form players a chance' arguement. However, Bobby Zamora is not realistically going to be a credible candidate for the Euro 2012 squad so why bother? My feelings would be equal, if not more, for Carlton Cole who I feel is a player getting a ridiculous amount of praise considering how mediocre he is.

    As for the youngsters - can someone tell me what Wilshere has done to deserve a call-up? He hasn't established himself in the Arsenal side or truely proven he's a good Premier League player. I'm sure he'll be in contention for Euro 2012 but fast tracking him in to the squad is only increasing the risk that he was become content in his development, much in the same way that Walcott did. England are making it look very easy to get in to the national side.

    Why no Rodwell? Arguably the best young English talent in the league and he's stuck in the U21s?! This lad has proven himself last season at Everton. He was an established squad player in the second half of the season and was very influential in many games.

    I'd also like to see Huddlestone get some recognition for his performances. Outstanding player who could offer a lot in both defensive and offensive roles.

    Capello's decision confuses me. It's like he's trying to prove he's giving youth a chance, but he mistakingly flicked the switch to '11' and went too far. Given this approach then why wasn't Phil Jones given a call-up? Or Chris Smalling?

    I may be overlooking injuries that I'm unaware of but in my opinion if Carlton Cole and Bobby Zamora are part of England's elite strikers then they might as well cancel their flights for 2012.

    Is Shawcross still injured? Surely he should have been included.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    peejay1986 wrote: »
    I think this squad stinks of desperation from Capello. Not a desperation born from ability, but a desperation to get the nation's 'supporters' on his side. The new players in the squad are crazy, well, some of them anyway.

    Ok I understand the whole 'give the in-form players a chance' arguement. However, Bobby Zamora is not realistically going to be a credible candidate for the Euro 2012 squad so why bother? My feelings would be equal, if not more, for Carlton Cole who I feel is a player getting a ridiculous amount of praise considering how mediocre he is.

    As for the youngsters - can someone tell me what Wilshere has done to deserve a call-up? He hasn't established himself in the Arsenal side or truely proven he's a good Premier League player. I'm sure he'll be in contention for Euro 2012 but fast tracking him in to the squad is only increasing the risk that he was become content in his development, much in the same way that Walcott did. England are making it look very easy to get in to the national side.

    Why no Rodwell? Arguably the best young English talent in the league and he's stuck in the U21s?! This lad has proven himself last season at Everton. He was an established squad player in the second half of the season and was very influential in many games.

    I'd also like to see Huddlestone get some recognition for his performances. Outstanding player who could offer a lot in both defensive and offensive roles.

    Capello's decision confuses me. It's like he's trying to prove he's giving youth a chance, but he mistakingly flicked the switch to '11' and went too far. Given this approach then why wasn't Phil Jones given a call-up? Or Chris Smalling?

    I may be overlooking injuries that I'm unaware of but in my opinion if Carlton Cole and Bobby Zamora are part of England's elite strikers then they might as well cancel their flights for 2012.

    Is Shawcross still injured? Surely he should have been included.
    You could only be a Spurs fan. Huddlestone is no more good enough for international football than I am. He is too slow and walks around the pitch like he's on his holidays.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭peejay1986


    grenache wrote: »
    You could only be a Spurs fan. Huddlestone is no more good enough for international football than I am. He is too slow and walks around the pitch like he's on his holidays.

    I'm not a Spurs fan. I don't see speed as the be all and end all. There would be enough players around him with speed to make up for him. I think he's brilliant. A strong presence in midfield, something England are really lacking. Speed is not a necessary attribute for a successful central midfielder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    peejay1986 wrote: »
    I'm not a Spurs fan. I don't see speed as the be all and end all. There would be enough players around him with speed to make up for him. I think he's brilliant. A strong presence in midfield, something England are really lacking. Speed is not a necessary attribute for a successful central midfielder.
    You misunderstand me. By 'speed', i don't mean the ability to run fast! Huddlestone is too slow at laying off the ball, too slow to realise when a team-mate is making a run, and is often caught in possession with the ball, far too casual on the ball for my liking.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Talk of deserving a place is irrelevant, or at least it should be.

    It's a meaningless friendly 2 years from the next tournament, and players should be blooded with that in mind. Gibbs and Wilshere will be 22 and 20 respectively by the time EC2012 rolls around so it makes sense to start getting them ready. Their talent is plain to see, and it really isn't like the Walcott WC situation. They've both played in the PL and the CL; a friendly against Hungary isn't going to have them ****ting themselves.

    Why the likes of Rodwell and co aren't in there is the more pertinent question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭peejay1986


    Talk of deserving a place is irrelevant, or at least it should be.

    It's a meaningless friendly 2 years from the next tournament, and players should be blooded with that in mind. Gibbs and Wilshere will be 22 and 20 respectively by the time EC2012 rolls around so it makes sense to start getting them ready. Their talent is plain to see, and it really isn't like the Walcott WC situation. They've both played in the PL and the CL; a friendly against Hungary isn't going to have them ****ting themselves.

    Why the likes of Rodwell and co aren't in there is the more pertinent question.

    It sets an awful precedent to be judging playing future at the top level based on a few mediocre performances at club level. I can understand the Gibbs choice more and LB is a position that is extremely lacking for #ENG but there is no need to fasttrack Wilshere in to the side. This time should be spent focusing on players like Young, Hart, Rodwell and possibly Agbonlahor. Players who've proven their ability in Prem and are ready to be groomed for next step


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,759 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm delighted to see Robbo get back in the picture, pity for Green. Why is Foster getting picked? He made a couple of mistakes last season, surely Scott Carson should be ahead of him at the present time, especially if he is dropping Green for his mistake.
    Robinson has pulled out of the squad. Sick of sitting on the bench and didnt get an assuarance from Capello that he'll be No.1

    So he's retired from international football.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8894651.stm

    Goalkeepers: Ben Foster (Birmingham), Joe Hart (Manchester City), Paul Robinson (Blackburn)

    Defenders: Wes Brown (Manchester United), Gary Cahill (Bolton), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Michael Dawson (Tottenham Hotspur), Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Glen Johnson (Liverpool), John Terry (Chelsea)

    Midfielders: Gareth Barry (Manchester City), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Manchester City), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), James Milner (Aston Villa), Ashley Young (Aston Villa), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)

    Forwards: Darren Bent (Sunderland), Carlton Cole (West Ham United), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Bobby Zamora (Fulham)

    so 10 from the WC are gone and tbh you cant expect too much more from a major nation that isnt france in their first game after the tournament. Wes Browns introduction, does make sense i guess to cover RB and CB but the same cries of not exactley one for the fututre and will he exactley be first choice at club level that have been levelled at other players in this squad it seems odd he hasnt been pointed out more. If I was making a change to a squad for a game like this and to a backup player then the person id bring in (and what i think people want to see) is someone that could be one for the future or that hasnt got a chance yet. So maybe just go with Jags as RB cover (even if he is also starting) and bring in Shawcross or someone.

    Considering Englands LB options, even though i do rate both Warnock and Baines I think having a closer look at Gibbs who is quality and ive seen some Arsenal fans suggesting he could oust Clichy as early as this season if given a run. Its players like him that Capello thinks could be part of englands long term plans should be looked at now as far away from their next tournament as possible to see if they have the potential to take part in that campaign.

    Barry still isnt a DM hes more CM but disciplined so the lack of a DM to try out here even if again it was just a young player to have as backup and to see in training then Rodwell who could fill that role would have been a good shout. But lets remember that Capello sees this players first hand and more often than most of us including those players in question for such roles, so who knows maybe he saw something at the pre-world cup training camp that made him think that Huddelstone or someone currently out there can not fill the DM role atm better than a Barry, Milner or Gerrard from CM.

    Wilshere then is the reverse of the situation and imo makes sense to bring in as said in a backup role where its better to have one for the future than someone just filling a spot in what isnt a game of huge importance. he is very young still but unlike even Gibbs he was first choice at a Prem team in the second half of last season at Bolton, he has been having a good pre season and he is the type of player England need, a player who can keep posession. Just getting to see how he does in training with the others involved will be worth Capello taking him along as the guy has the potential its a question of whether he is physically/mentally ready to start using it at the top stage.

    Bobby Zamora could have warrented a call up before the world cup but now i dont know if it is worthwhile as i dont see him long term holding a squad place. There must be somebetter options but id imagine Capello doesent actually believe he has the best striking options, plus maybe Gabby or someone has a pre season knock (think i remember hearing he wasnt fully fit). I dont rate Cole as higly as the media have this past year and also dont think he will long term add much to the england squad but he could be played in a target man role ala Heskey who is now retired i suppose. Bent however with his goal record could finally make an england squad place his own should he gab himself a goal or two imo. with Heskey gone there is atleast one opening. Rooney, Defoe, and 2 more will make normal squads imo and bent is the best positioned to be one of them atm. The last spot I could imagine Gabby fighting Cole and 1 or two others/form players for.

    and finally in Goals this imo is a clear indicator that Joe Hart is the new England no.1 though for that to remain a long term constant id imagine he would need first team club football.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,659 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    Robinson has pulled out of the squad. Sick of sitting on the bench and didnt get an assuarance from Capello that he'll be No.1

    So he's retired from international football.

    I was expecting him to retire after not being a part of the World Cup squad, i suppose as he said now has been the first chance to follow through on it.

    It was a shame he was not at the World Cup, he certainly should have been in the squad ahead of Green in my opinion.

    WC Goalkeepers: Rob Green, David James, Joe Hart.
    Goalkeepers: Ben Foster, Joe Hart , Paul Robinson (Retired)

    I don't expect we'll see James again, Green will be on 2 year gardening leave. Hart is the future of England goalkeeping whether or not he is 1st choice at City.

    WC Defenders: Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, John Terry, Jamie Carragher, Stephen Warnock, Matthew Upson, Ledley King.
    Defenders: Wes Brown, Gary Cahill, Ashley Cole, Michael Dawson, Kieran Gibbs, Phil Jagielka, Glen Johnson, John Terry.

    Ferdinand is Injured. I'm not sure we will see Carragher again. Warnock should be in the squad. I'm thinking King is too much of a liability for International football. Upson is unfortunate to miss out. Jagielka Gibbs and Cahill are all worth trying out in a game like this.

    WC Midfielders: Gareth Barry, Michael Carrick, Joe Cole, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Aaron Lennon, James Milner, Shaun Wright-Phillips.
    Midfielders: Gareth Barry , Steven Gerrard , Adam Johnson , Frank Lampard , James Milner , Ashley Young , Theo Walcott , Jack Wilshere

    Carrick misses out, Joe Cole should be in the squad, Lennon and Wright-Phillips especially the later continue to dissapoint for England. Johnson should have made the WCS. Walcott was left out of the WC and falls into the same bracket as Lennon and SWP for me. Wilshere is a strange one, he has the talent and i suppose moving him up so soon will benefit him and the squad.

    WC Strikers: Wayne Rooney, Emile Heskey, Jermain Defoe, Peter Crouch.
    Striker: Darren Bent, Carlton Cole, Wayne Rooney, Bobby Zamora.

    Heskey should never have been at the WC and he won't make an England squad again. The forwards included highlight that this is an experimental squad and that Capello is going to use it to try and find hat elusive partner for Rooney. However bad he was at the WC i suppose he can't be dropped, it doesn't benefit anyone involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭TonyD79


    Robinson has pulled out of the squad. Sick of sitting on the bench and didnt get an assuarance from Capello that he'll be No.1

    So he's retired from international football.


    So if England have an injury crisis on the Eve of the next European Championships he will stick to the decision? People are highlighting poor performances for players having a lack of national pride yet retiring because you dont get game time is the most ovbious sign! If a player retires for this reason I think the National Football Assoication should have a ruling that they cant come back. England really are screwed for goalkeepers. Also reading that Manchini isnt sure on who to start with -Given or Harte is the biggest joke ever. If Buffon was in goals he wouldnt be coming out with such crap. Given is world class, Harte has had a good season for Brimingham.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,457 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    TonyD79 wrote: »
    So if England have an injury crisis on the Eve of the next European Championships he will stick to the decision? People are highlighting poor performances for players having a lack of national pride yet retiring because you dont get game time is the most ovbious sign! If a player retires for this reason I think the National Football Assoication should have a ruling that they cant come back. England really are screwed for goalkeepers. Also reading that Manchini isnt sure on who to start with -Given or Harte is the biggest joke ever. If Buffon was in goals he wouldnt be coming out with such crap. Given is world class, Harte has had a good season for Brimingham.
    What are you doing here coming up with a ridiculous hypothetical situation.

    Robinson has every right to be unhappy at not being selected for the World Cup. He was arguably the best English keeper over the last 12 months, he is a quiet lad who said nothing at all when he was left behind. Its clear he didn't expect to get called up for a friendly, its really a kick in the teeth to be called up like that for the first game after a World Cup which he should have been at. I can fully understand his decision to retire.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    Goalkeepers:

    Presumably Joe Hart will start this campaign as first choice but lack of first team action could go against him. Foster has mistakes in him but with a consistent run of games with Birmingham could force his way into the number 1 jersey if Hart does not play week in week out. Smart move by Robinson to retire seeing as he was only going to be 3rd choice keeper and better at that age to concentrate on your club career and enjoying the international breaks with your family. I suppose it will be between Carson and Kirkland for the 3rd choice spot in the next squad.

    Defence:

    Glen Johnson at RB after a very average WC shows the lack of depth in that position. Wes Brown is only a temporary solution until another player shows the form that will make them ready for international football. Cole and Terry are the spine of the team, will be there for the campaign ahead. Ideally two of Dawson, Cahill and Jagielka should be the starting CBs for the campaign but with Terry and Rio there it means the 3 will all be fighting to be the backup CB. At the moment Dawson is currently is place to take over from either Rio or Terry. Gibbs is there because Capello does not see Baines or Warnock as international players. It will be good international experience to have someone of the class of Cole ahead of you.

    Midfield:

    Barry, Lampard, Gerrard, and Milner are the spine of the team so will be around for the campaign to come. Adam Johnson and Walcott are there because Capello probably realises that he should have picked them for his world cup squad, they bring something different to the team than Lennon and SWP. Young is there because of his pace and his goal scoring ability. Wilshire is certainly the most talked about choice but I feel it was inevitable choice that Capello would make. His squad needs a mixture of youth and experience. Players like Rodwell, Cattermole and Huddlestone's time will come over this campaign. It would have been no benefit throwing all the young players in a squad together as it would not have given them the experience of playing with Lampard, Gerrard and the others mainstays of the team.

    Forwards:

    Rooney guaranteed to be in every squad till the next WC barring injury. However I do not think he needs game time in this match. Maybe give him half a match playing up front with Bent. Bent looks favourite to become a mainstay of the international squad. With Defoe and Crouch most likely to return to the squad the pressure is on Zamora and Carlton Cole to perform. This will probably be Zamora's only chance and Cole's last chance. I see neither featuring meaningfully in the campaign ahead.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    This isn't a squad for the future or the present, I think it's a terribly odd selection of players tbh.

    My squad for Euro qualifying:

    Keepers

    Joe Hart (#1)
    Ben Foster
    Robert Green

    Defenders

    Glen Johnson
    Ryan Shawcross
    Michael Dawson
    Ashley Cole
    Phil Jagielka
    Gary Cahill
    Kieran Gibbs

    Midfielders

    Aaron Lennon
    Frank Lampard
    James Milner
    Adam Johnson
    Jack Wilshere
    Tom Huddlestone
    Lee Cattermole
    Joe Cole
    Jack Rodwell

    Forwards

    Wayne Rooney
    Darren Bent
    Jermaine Defoe
    Bobby Zamora

    Team I'd like to see:
    Hart
    Johnson Dawson Jagielka Cole
    Rodwell Huddlestone
    Lennon Cole Johnson
    Rooney

    Obvious problems with that team aside, I'd love to see it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,616 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Another one bites the dust with Wes Brown announcing his retirement from international football aged 30.

    http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/08/08/SOCCER_England_Brown.html


    Makes a refreshing change from "we'd cut off our own arms to wear the jersey" stuff I suppose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    I can not see Capello being too upset with these two retirements. Neither player wqw integral to his plans for the campiagn ahead. Smart move by both players to concentrate on their club careers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Kiwi_knock wrote: »
    I can not see Capello being too upset with these two retirements. Neither player wqw integral to his plans for the campiagn ahead. Smart move by both players to concentrate on their club careers

    You will see more and more fringe players following imo, particularly if they play for a big club, shows the importance of International football is diminishing further.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,659 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    You will see more and more fringe players following imo, particularly if they play for a big club, shows the importance of International football is diminishing further.

    International football would still be important to the likes of Brown and Robinson, i'm pretty sure that both of them would have been gutted to miss out on the World Cup because it was their last chance at one.

    There comes a time, especially at the age they both are at that you have to think about the side of football that pays you - there is no point in them being selected for meaningless friendlies that could put their club career in jeopardy.

    England will be fine and move on without them, it is better to be breaking in some new blood in these type of games than giving some swansongs to players that wont make a tournament again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,959 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Is Capello not talking to players before announcing his squad?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,659 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    CSF wrote: »
    Is Capello not talking to players before announcing his squad?

    They were talking about this earlier in relation to Robinson, he said he was not spoken too. It is a strange one, i would have thought a manager would give some sort of personal call-up to the guys.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    As far as I am aware Capello does not inform the players before announcing his squad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭_Bella_


    Darren Bent has been ruled out due to a back injury


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭pablodunlop




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