Is it worth pressing a few vinyls these days?

Chloroplast

So lets say you have music coming out on digital soon, and you have the option of getting some vinyl pressed, the decision for vinyl is purely yours, of coarse expenses will be taken from you royalty's but it aint about the cash,thats totally not the issue.

myself, i haven't baught a record in a few years, so i don't really know how things are going, i used to buy in bpm Waterford(closed) then used to practically live in spindizzy dublin. wasnt happy with the selection after a while, and got bored hunting tunes that simply were not for sale anywhere close to me,

i ended buying from juno then, which was fantastic, they were only 6 to 8 euro and even after vat and delivery it was still working out cheaper than my trips to dublin(as i remember paying as much as 13 euro for a tune at the time).

so do you still buy vinyl ? do you favour it still ? do you have friends who still buy vinyl ?

would like to hear what your opinion and view is on what you think the situation today is in ireland with vinyl.

i know many would say that its great to have your own tune on vinyl and i agree it would be a buzz , but in reality their not gonna be much use if they are just sitting in a shop doing nothing coz everyone's gone digital and cd.

cheers.

seannash

not to sound too condescending but if its about money dont press to vinyl.if you really dont care about a return on your track,go for it.

now will you sell any vinyl?
depends on genre.deep house is still doing vinyl as is d&b but most other genres are totally digital now.

if its not your own label and you genuinely feel the track is very strong(also important for a vinyl release as people are less likely to spend £10 on a track if its only okay) go for it.

the likelyhood of you actually making any money from a release is sooo slim they wont have a chance to recoup any money if the vinyl doesnt sell.

so if its not your label its no skin off your nose because the reality is that you probably wont make a lifechanging amount of money from one release(thats not a judgement on your work by the way)

copeyhagen

have actually been thinking more and more about picking up another set of 1210s.. have so much vinyl that will never be digital.. unless i rip it which is unlikely!!!

Executive Steve

Of course it's worth pressing vinyl.

You really think an MP3 is going to be around in 70 years?

I have vinyl from the 50's that still plays perfectly.

I have hard drives that have died, PC's that have been infected, MP3 promos I've been sent that have been lost as a result. Never lost more than a few records in all the years I've been buying them.

Executive Steve

And vinyl is all I play. Never touched a CD deck except to unplug it or switch it off.

a148pro

well what format are 'big name' DJs using now? and who is putting out the vinyl if it is vinyl?

Hypertic

Considering how little money is to be made from a digital release in the current climate, I would say it doesn't make much sense to press vinyl. The free downloading of tracks and availability of digital music makes vinyl a minority thing as most people won't pay for what they can get for free.

Yes you will always get some people who play it so it will be popular in a small capacity. If you are not releasing on Cocoon/Poker Flat/(Insert Big Label Name) you're vinyl sales wont be worth much. So your vinyl will be purely decorative and a nice thing to look back on in years to come as something you achieved.

Most clubs dj's don't use the medium and it's quite restrictive in many ways but if you feel its something you would like to do that the label is funding then why not?

Executive Steve

a148pro wrote: »

well what format are 'big name' DJs using now? and who is putting out the vinyl if it is vinyl?

Mala, Loefah, Plastician, Kode 9, Andy C, Dillinja, Fierce, Goldie, LTJ Bukem, - all still cutting Dubplates.

francois

Executive Steve wrote: »

And vinyl is all I play. Never touched a CD deck except to unplug it or switch it off.

Me too, besides I've yet to impress anyone with the size of my mp3 collection!
On a more serious note, vinyl seems to be acquiring a certain cachet-it's not just small dance or indie labels releasing vinyl, but big name bands as well, releasing limited editions for fans.

Hypertic

Executive Steve wrote: »

Mala, Loefah, Plastician, Kode 9, Andy C, Dillinja, Fierce, Goldie, LTJ Bukem, - all still cutting Dubplates.

I recognise 4 of those guys as being DnB dj's so it seems it might be specific to that style of music that cut vinyl?? Dillinja,Andy C,Goldie & LTJ are all old school and brought up on vinyl I'd imagine.

What are the new DnB guys like High Contrast using? Or even the dubstep guys like Benga and Skream when they're djiing?

electrogrimey

Hypertic wrote: »

What are the new DnB guys like High Contrast using? Or even the dubstep guys like Benga and Skream when they're djiing?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they all (dubstep and d&b guys) use vinyl for normal DJing, but for projects like Magnetic Man they use Ableton and stuff right?

For house and techno, I doubt it's worth pressing vinyl, but for the big vinyl genres like d&b, it's definitely worth it. Most DJs I've seen using vinyl recently are using Serato anyway, very rare to see a house DJ using actual vinyl.

jtsuited

The vast majority of sh1t dj's don't use vinyl.
The slight majority of good dj's use vinyl.

All imo, but I reckon most will agree.

Almost every good techno and house dj I know is still predominantly vinyl based.

beely

OK, I'm a relatively young dj and I still use vinyl and like you said I buy most of it from juno. However, all of my friends who are djs don't use it at all, they all use CDJs and controllers with the likes of Traktor Scratch and Serato. They can't even be bothered to burn CDs never mind haul around a load of vinyl. I can understand why they do this as nearly every time I've played in a club the standard set up has been two CDJs and a mixer, not a turntable in sight! Personally I think this is a crying shame. Anyway, I know this probably doesn't help much with the decision but I just said I'd let you know what seems to me be the trend now days.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

The vast majority of sh1t dj's don't use vinyl.
The slight majority of good dj's use vinyl.

Almost every good techno and house dj I know is still predominantly vinyl based.

Sorry but I don't agree with this at all, and I've seen a good percentage of the producers I listen to DJ. A very small portion of them use vinyl, and the ones using vinyl weren't any better than those on CDs or digital.

It's probably true that there are more shit non-vinyl DJs out there than shit vinyl DJs, but it's just a snobby nostalgia thing if anyone says that vinyl DJs are better.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

It's probably true that there are more shit non-vinyl DJs out there than shit vinyl DJs, but it's just a snobby nostalgia thing if anyone says that vinyl DJs are better.

ah but that's not what I said...


I'm not saying they're great because they use vinyl, I'm saying that the situation is that the people who I think are great dj's happen to use vinyl.

Not a question of causality.

Diego Smartly

jtsuited wrote: »

The vast majority of sh1t dj's don't use vinyl.
The slight majority of good dj's use vinyl.

Ah thats a very safe thing to say. Its like saying Domestos kills 99% of germs; when theres trillions of different types of germs out there.

Not that Digital DJs are germs:pac:

b45

electrogrimey wrote: »

Sorry but I don't agree with this at all, and I've seen a good percentage of the producers I listen to DJ. A very small portion of them use vinyl, and the ones using vinyl weren't any better than those on CDs or digital.

It's probably true that there are more shit non-vinyl DJs out there than shit vinyl DJs, but it's just a snobby nostalgia thing if anyone says that vinyl DJs are better.

i dont think its a snobby nostalgia thing at all . cdjs are ridiculously easy to use where as playing vinyl requires more skill and finesse , its a tougher format to learn so as a result the people who can do it well are usually really dedicated to their craft . also most people playing digital arent paying for their music at all where as vinyl djs have to select their music more carefully because its costing them a few quid which usually leads to a higher quality tune being played . so i think it is fair to say that really great djs in general play vinyl from older established djs ( theo parrish , derrick may ,villalobos ) through to new djs emerging in the last few years ( ben klock , raresh , omar s )

Funky G

well said b45.

to the OP. if you can get your track mastered and cut onto vinyl, then go for it!

i still have a load of vinyl in my mam's house that i'll have to move into my own place but i have a lot of funky / disco house stuff, especially from the early days of defected, subliminal, strictly, etc.

yes there is a small hint of nostalgia about vinyl, but the warmth of the sound being played on a 1210 through a good amp and speakers is just really nice....

my 1210's may be gone but i'll get one again before technics close its doors on it for good.

you'll really appreciate your work even more when you physically can hold a 12 inch record and say...this is mine!

HxGH

I picked up a bag of vinyls the other day. FREE!

Must go through them.

was.deevey

I think having a few vinyls pressed rocks, its sooo good to have a lump of vinyl you can call your own...I'd say go for it if its within your budget.

But @ b45 I wouldn't knock digital either or put it on a pedestal.

Its a cool format, I love vinyl, love playing vinyl when I get a chance and its a shame its dying out somewhat.. BUT I have to completely disagree with some of the comments made though in relation to digital dj'ing/CDJ's

I dont think its a snobby nostalgia thing at all...cdjs are ridiculously easy to use where as playing vinyl requires more skill and finesse

I call bullsh1t on that, snobby is excatly what it is! .. I for one always found it easier to mix on vinyl due to its tactility. I prefer spotting breaks in the grooves rather than a drop in waveform on screen ... Yes I can hit "Sync" in Traktor, but I can also beatmatch within 2 bars on a 1210.

Its a tougher format to learn so as a result the people who can do it well are usually really dedicated to their craft

Its easier to cause a stampede of hourses alright (and get out of it!) .. but its quite simply a "different" format, with its pro's and cons .. Digital requires some tech savvyness but has greater flexibility with regards effects, loops, harmonic mixing etc...Vinyl has its nostalgia, tactility, Spinning labels (which I sooo miss in digital formats) and being able to sift though your records at the beginning of a night in a big box behind you.

If you suck as a Dj you'll suck as a DJ regardless what format you choose to use, you might be able to mix on vinyl really well, that doesn't mean your choice of music is any good or that you can rock a crowd....being able to beat match doesn't make for a good DJ either, it just means no trainwrecks still no guarantee of being out of time by a 1/4 bar... Being able to use a 40 year old DJ music solution does not make a great DJ either.

There was plenty on vinyl DJ's going back a few years and plenty of crap ones .. if they are still playing and paying for vinyl does that make them any better ?

Also most people playing digital arent paying for their music at all where as vinyl djs have to select their music more carefully because its costing them a few quid which usually leads to a higher quality tune being played

Thats really a matter of opinion, there was/is always lots of crap Vinyl to be had too.. just that the producer/record company thought a vinyl release was a better idea, that doesn't mean its better...A large number of the newer vinyl jocks probably are getting promo's anyhoo's and probably not paying either... bedroom jocks and non-names will pay top dolla.

In Fairness with digital the main difference is you don't get the 3 outta 4 ****e mixes you don't want and pay for them too.. if you're paying for music you're still paying for music...if you're not paying for it, your stealing it, which is a completely different arguement.

So i think it is fair to say that really great djs in general play vinyl from older established djs ( theo parrish , derrick may ,villalobos ) through to new djs emerging in the last few years ( ben klock , raresh , omar s )

And yet a huge number, probably the majority of older established DJ's have at this stage progressed onto digital via Traktor / Serato / Ableton in the last few years... go figure. :rolleyes:

Great Serato Forum Post re: Derrick May
"the main reason why you are in my personal Top 5 best DJ's and not Number 1 as you should be, is because you refuse to embrace the technology. You and Juan built your reputation and gained fame on TECHNOlogy - but you insist on being a vinyl purist."

hans aus dtschl

was.deevey wrote: »

Great Serato Forum Post re: Derrick May
"the main reason why you are in my personal Top 5 best DJ's and not Number 1 as you should be, is because you refuse to embrace the technology. You and Juan built your reputation and gained fame on TECHNOlogy - but you insist on being a vinyl purist."

No irony seen in calling shenanigans on vinyl snobbery and then calling the above a great post, no? Also are you seriously asserting that it's easier to mix on an analog format where the bpm is subjective to hearing, over one which actually locks the bpm in place? You do realise that the reason people use ableton and traktor etc is to free up beatmatching time to spend doing other stuff? You do realise that by saying vinyl's easier you're negating a huge portion of the "digital" benefits??? The rest of your arguments are spot on, just don't see where you're coming from with the above.

Doesn't matter what format you play. I'll keep saying it til I'm blue in the face.

In a debate of whether to press vinyl or not...It's like this....if you have to ask, then don't press up any. It's not gonna make you more money.
Me, it'd be no question, I'd press vinyl. Probably only vinyl. But if you have to ask then don't press them.

was.deevey

Doesn't matter what format you play. I'll keep saying it til I'm blue in the face.

...

Well said

... I'd actually meant to take the May/Serato quote out, I had been editing the post, and went ahead without without reviewing.. but the basis of what I intended it to say on it originally was along the lines of using advances in technology as a selling point when suited and dissing the use of technology being used it suited.. take it what way you will.

Also are you seriously asserting that it's easier to mix on an analog format where the bpm is subjective to hearing

Beat matching - as easy, as for cueing and launching, yes I feel vinyl is easier and more accurate than a button on a midi controller or CDJ due to the tactility and relationship between hand / eye release etc...maybe its just me, i'd prolly go with "Scratch Pro" if I had room for turntables.

Matching beats as I said is only a small part of DJ'ing anyhow and good 'ol ears are required for "decent" dj'ing no matter which format you use, be it to keep on, cue on time, time or to harmonically mix and effect etc without it sounding crap*...

*Unless you're wearing flip flops*

Anyhoo .. I'll kill it there, no point in hijacking the thread with yet another stalemate battle

To the OP .. if that voice inside your head says "press on vinyl" .. go for it

seannash

what beatmatching did was act as a filter.
yes its easy once you get good at it which takes a fair bit of time.

this made sure that, anyone who wasnt dedicated enough to learn,didnt dj.

nowadays everything is sync'd so anyone can do it.

there is absolutely no way that beatmatching is as simple as pushing a button,i dont care how you dress it up.with cdjs you dont have to worry about skipping needles or how hard you push the track along.also depending on how you use it the bpm counter on them can help.

people using ableton dont even have to launch the clips in time either

yes matching beats is only a small part of it once you get good at it,until then its a huge struggle for the majority of people.
beatmatching was a right of passage.if you couldnt do it you wouldnt get a gig.

also the other parts like reading a crowd could only be learned by doing gigs.nowadays with the beatmatching filter gone theres too many people out there with no experience getting gigs because of a programmes capabilities rather than there own.

(im not saying all digital djs are ****e)

b45

I call bullsh1t on that, snobby is excatly what it is! .. I for one always found it easier to mix on vinyl due to its tactility. I prefer spotting breaks in the grooves rather than a drop in waveform on screen ... Yes I can hit "Sync" in Traktor, but I can also beatmatch within 2 bars on a 1210.

One of the reasons I wrote that post was becuase of an experience I had playing in kennedys earlier this year . I was playing before a dj who is now fairly established in dublin , regular enough gigs in the pod etc .. He was so worried when he first came on because for his first tune he had no bpm counter to work off to point where he spilled the beans to me that he couldnt really mix well yet and he was going to have serious trouble with this frist mix because he was only used to playing on cdjs with bpm counters on them . This is the sort of crutch that playing digitally gives people and allows chancers like this guy who are more interested in promoting themselves than learning their craft properly get gigs . You wouldnt find a vinyl dj in this situation simply because they know they would have to be at a certain level of ability and experience before they took the gig .

Chloroplast

OK, firstly thanks to EVERYONE for their input, i have realised now that this is very in depth and has sparked a lot of opinion, which im glad of because it has opened my eyes big time, both on the "for and against".

after taking some time to read through this, and based on my own views aswell(with the help of the thread too) i have decided to press vinyl for the release.

while the label owner asked me not to announce anything or tell anyone(at least publicly till its out), i will say, the style is tech-house and the label is a very well known and establish label thats been around since 1993 and was vinyl and cd only at one stage, but now since 2008 has stopped vinyl and now just do digital with the occasional yearly cd compilation .

this is gonna be the labels first vinyl release in some time, and as weird as this seems, its purely my choice. he would not give me an opinion on what he thinks or what his view is on the market today,
he simply said ""in principle i have no objections to releasing your music on vinyl"" (this is presuming ive read the contract fully).its laid out in plain black and white that expenses come from my royalty's, and as far as im concerned i expected to make absolutely zero in the first place. a first release in my view is just basically me getting my foot in the door, i never expected to make anything in the first place. to me a first release is a celebration,and an achievement, and something to write on my bio.

i understand im not gonna be selling millions of copys,but i feel now it would be good to have it on vinyl aswell as digital for the reason of extra exposure, aswell as the other percs.at first i just felt like i didnt want to waste the mans time. but for him to sign the track, i must be somewhere in the right ball park, im sure hes not taking pity on my ass,lol, at the end of the day business is business right ?

ending my post i just wanna say, its fuking great to see there's a love for vinyl out there and thats its still being proudly used. it has myself even considering getting out the 1210`s again, as i do have more tunes on vinyl that digital. it also sparked a notion in my head that the digital dj road that i have went down has maybe corrupt my way of thinking regarding what consists of a good mix, but i dont wanna open a can of worms ;P

cheers lads.

hans aus dtschl

I had a similar experience last year, coming on after a DJ battle where they'd all used cdjs.
There was a point in the mix, about 25mins in where the tracks drifted out for a second. I literally heard jeering from the side. They couldn't comprehend how I'd mixed "so badly".

What do you say to people who have been brought to believe every mix is a push of a button? Jeff Mills Live at the liquid rooms would be utterly lost on them.

hans aus dtschl

Hey chloroplast: I hope to hear this when it's out!

I hope the decision doesn't end up being one you regret. Me, I'd be thrilled to have something of release quality, let alone actually getting it pressed...AND on an established label.

Well done! Everything else from here on is a bonus!

Chloroplast

had the same situation myself for a gig in maynooth college, they had me coming up from Wexford, and there was big hype about it,people looking forward to it.

i got on stage, there was no monitor. the main bins were right underneath me and all i could hear was vibrations, even putting the headphones volume up full was doing nothing for me, i played for half a hour and it was the worst experience in my life, every mix bar the first few was pure train wreck, i couldn't get off the stage quick enough.

well what did i learn ? invest in a good monitor and bring it with you.

Chloroplast

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Hey chloroplast: I hope to hear this when it's out!

I hope the decision doesn't end up being one you regret. Me, I'd be thrilled to have something of release quality, let alone actually getting it pressed...AND on an established label.

Well done! Everything else from here on is a bonus!

nice one man, thanks for the support, and thanks for your input, i was reading your post there where you were saying "you would only press vinyl, nothing else" good policy

jtsuited

fair play chloroplast, best of luck with the release.

Do the label have a good distributor? This is probably the most important thing when it comes to vinyl releases.

My first vinyl release is being distributed by rubadub and even though it's caused a load of delays (months in fact), I know it'll be worth it.

hans aus dtschl

Well I don't buy anything else, so if I was releasing a record it would be for the benefit of myself and people like me is my rationale I guess.

Check out ornaments, dial, laid, horizontal ground, cottam, klockworks etc etc, and its the same story. They release vinyl cos thats the market they're interested in. There's not much, if any, money in it (usually a loss), the money is in digital.
Getting it pressed, even a run of 300, would excite me in a major way.

Having a track of release quality would excite me enough on its own, to be fair, though.

Chloroplast

nice one jtsuited, i haven't got around to asking him that yet, but will be on the phone to em tonight,i will ask him. all i know so far is its being mastered and pressed in the uk, although he himself lives in Australia.

i don't know how far it will stretch, but i would say definitely it will be for sale on juno, and out in some decent shops in UK and Ireland. ive still to discuss how many to press,sorting that bit out tonight,i haven't a clue about quantity's, id say he will be the boss on that bit.

and your right about the delays and stuff. first thing he asked me was how long has the track been floating around, i said 4 months,(thats soundcloud and handing out demo entry's) but only people have listened to it, not downloaded it or anything, and he was saying that if its been online that long then hes gona try and get it out as quickly as possible before it gets any older and people who heard it already and want a copy may loose interest, so were looking to get it out within 4 to 6 weeks max.

edit: best of look with your release too !

Chloroplast

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Well I don't buy anything else, so if I was releasing a record it would be for the benefit of myself and people like me is my rationale I guess.

Check out ornaments, dial, laid, horizontal ground, cottam, klockworks etc etc, and its the same story. They release vinyl cos thats the market they're interested in. There's not much, if any, money in it (usually a loss), the money is in digital.
Getting it pressed, even a run of 300, would excite me in a major way.

Having a track of release quality would excite me enough on its own, to be fair, though.

interesting perspective, i will indeed check them out, cheers.

hans aus dtschl

And therein lies another benefit of digital, you can get it out the door waaaaay faster.

jtsuited

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

And therein lies another benefit of digital, you can get it out the door waaaaay faster.

i'll tell you what though....releasing digital only fcuking sucks. Here's why....

If the label don't have the marketing clout, it will get lost in the deluge of sh1t on beatport.

If you do manage to hit the beatport charts (I did with the last kid handsome release), it gets torrented to bejaysus, and every russian dodgy retail site is selling it/giving it away for free.

And the amount of money actually made is fcuking negligible.

Now granted it ups your profile (whatever the fcuk that means these days) but all in all, it yields fcuk all return for a lot of hard work.

Even with big name dj support it's worthless as dj feedback/support has become essentially worthless these days as most dj's give support to everything because it means their name is on every sh1t label's promo blurb (cheapest advertising ever for the dj).

On the downside of not doing digital-only releases, you end up not having anything out for a long time, but imo that's a good thing as it means you can concentrate on making something you really like.

was.deevey

@ Chloroplast

In anycase, it'll be much more fun showing the Grandkiddies a nice 12' size lump of plastic with your name on it than a flash drive with some IDS tags encoded :P

... congrats and best of luck to you on it I hope you sell a million copies!

And apolgies for hijaccking your thread So much been said is so so true, and my own nostalgia button got pressed since I saw the post by seannash ..somethings I'd forgotton.

what beatmatching did was act as a filter.
.....anyone who wasn't dedicated enough to learn,didnt dj

To the point and true, I guess there was alot to be said for (even bedroom dj's) hogging around a box with 50-100 of their best records vs 6000 crappy "best of beatport" ones that they manage to copy from a torrent site! .. it was an expensive hobby, where now all you need is a laptop and some free software to be a passable DJ who could blag it in a club environment.

I proudly declare myself dedicated .. and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, something the blaggers will never have

electrogrimey

At least we can hope that seeing as the who 'everyone can DJ' thing is relatively new, in the future the standard of DJing will get even better, as there will be more people DJing, so the ones getting gigs will have to be better and better. Although there's a big chance that won't happen.

Chloroplast

nice one deevey,

good point there too.

was.deevey

Right then the DJ's of the future filtering starts here!

Next newbie on the board who asks what he needs to start off dj'ing...

1. Belt drive Soundlab turntables or equivalent (Therrrreeee great!)
2. Kam Made2Fade mixer with a dodgy crossfader, substitute for Genmini, Omnitronic or budget Numark.
3. At least 2 secondhand "bootleg billy dublin classic" vinyl's mixed into the collection of 10 almost unplayed (and almost unplayable) vinyl "borrowed off a mate who used to be into that stuff".
4. HUGE Speakers that the top end dies in within the first hour of a party and the bottom end farts when cranked with an amp that has any more power than a clock radio.
5. A mini strobe

Whatcha all think ?

@electrogrimey

Although there's a big chance that won't happen

Like the increased number of boy racers turning out in droves when Quinn started doing reasonable insurance... give it time, and the truth will be seen...just might take a while.

I wont be honest if you won't :cool:

electrogrimey

was.deevey wrote: »

Right then the DJ's of the future filtering starts here!

Next newbie on the board who asks what he needs to start off dj'ing...

1. Belt drive Soundlab turntables or equivalent (Therrrreeee great!)
2. Kam Made2Fade mixer with a dodgy crossfader, substitute for Genmini, Omnitronic or budget Numark.
3. At least 2 secondhand "bootleg billy dublin classic" vinyl's mixed into the collection of 10 almost unplayed (and almost unplayable) vinyl "borrowed off a mate who used to be into that stuff".
4. HUGE Speakers that the top end dies in within the first hour of a party and the bottom end farts when cranked with an amp that has any more power than a clock radio.
5. A mini strobe

Whatcha all think ?

@electrogrimey

Like the increased number of boy racers turning out in droves when Quinn started doing reasonable insurance... give it time, and the truth will be seen...just might take a while.

I wont be honest if you won't :cool:

And the mixer has to be missing at least 4 knobs. Or else you're not a real DJ.

was.deevey

Knobs ?, someone had some spare change :P

Sure they just get in the way of the mad crossfader buzz

hans aus dtschl

Despite it all, you can still usually tell which "digital" dj's have earned their stripes. Track selection and creativity are things which are usually either there or not.

Anyway this has ended up in some sort of digital versus analogue debate. Yet again.

It doesn't matter what format you play.

Oil paintings are not better than sculptures.
Come on people, just accept that the preference is subjective and get on with it.

I prefer oil paintings

seannash

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Despite it all, you can still usually tell which "digital" dj's have earned their stripes. Track selection and creativity are things which are usually either there or not.

Anyway this has ended up in some sort of digital versus analogue debate. Yet again.

It doesn't matter what format you play.

Oil paintings are not better than sculptures.
Come on people, just accept that the preference is subjective and get on with it.

I prefer oil paintings

ill accept it doesnt matter what format you play but as ive said before vinyl acts like a filter.

i could show anyone how to warp tracks and launch them in ableton in probably a day.it doesnt matter how musically gifted they are or if they have natural rhythm.

now beatmatching on the other hand is a different story.some might pick it up to a comparable level but i doubt they would have everything sync'd like ableton after 1 day.

this factor will cause the beatmatching student to practice and learn his tracks.
the abe jockey could just warp tracks all day long not having to worry about such things.

now onto the other point.who will think they are ready to dj first?

the abes dj because there is no trainwreck,no real reason to practice as hard as the beatmatching guy.
and this is why the amount of djs out there is huge.they think there ready because theres no way for them to tell there not imo.

calling yourself a dj used to mean something.definitely doesnt now


using laptops is all well and good but because of it djing has lost its soul imo.
i just cant get that intimate feeling from a laptop and now that ive pretty much dont want to gig out anymore ill be going back to my vinyl collection.

im not bashing anyone who is using abes because to be honest i dont think you know what you are missing.

digital djing is djing to you

very nostalgic post i know:D

jtsuited

oh btw, I could never see the appeal of djing until I went all vinyl.

Shopping for records, spending hours talkin sh1te in the shop, opening a box of fresh black gold from hardwax, organising all the records, annoying the missus with the racket after returning from town all excited, reorganising and cleaning the records, trying to record mixes but trainwrecking every 5th one because of the feckin click point on one of my 1210's acting the bollocks, seeing the collection grow like a small child...

all of it beats the hell out of waiting on a download from beatport.

Android 666

jtsuited wrote: »

oh btw, I could never see the appeal of djing until I went all vinyl.

Shopping for records, spending hours talkin sh1te in the shop, opening a box of fresh black gold from hardwax, organising all the records, annoying the missus with the racket after returning from town all excited, reorganising and cleaning the records, trying to record mixes but trainwrecking every 5th one because of the feckin click point on one of my 1210's acting the bollocks, seeing the collection grow like a small child...

all of it beats the hell out of waiting on a download from beatport.

That reminds me of a conversation I was having recently about how we were finding it harder to engage with a lot of music. Some of it we put down to getting older but also what we both felt was important was, with getting most of our music from ITunes and the like we had nothing physical to make any sort of emotional connection with. There is no real physical interaction with an Ipod as there is with putting on a record or hell even putting on a CD. I think aimlessly going through CDs and records means you have to make more of an emotional connection with whatever you have in your hand than you'll ever be able to do looking at a list on a laptop. I've always said I couldn't mix for toffee - I was beyond terrible but I loved going through the stacks of vinyl trying to find something that would leap out for me.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

oh btw, I could never see the appeal of djing until I went all vinyl.

For me the appeal of DJing is looking up from the booth and seeing a packed room of people dancing to and enjoying your track selection, watching them respond to your breakdowns and build-ups. That has nothing to do with the medium.

b45

electrogrimey wrote: »

For me the appeal of DJing is looking up from the booth and seeing a packed room of people dancing to and enjoying your track selection, watching them respond to your breakdowns and build-ups. That has nothing to do with the medium.

Id agree that you do get a great feeling from playing to a packed room but i think you are missing out on a big part of djing if thats all its about for you . I enjoy playing on my own in my room nearly as I do playing out and i think the medium has a lot to with it . Ive tried other formats before ( i owned a pair of cdjs for a year ) and I found they were fine if you wanted to use them in a club but for home use they were just plain boring . I was unable to get locked into a 2 or 3 hr session just playing to myself becuase i wasnt engaging with my medium the way i do with turntables . And for me that was a big loss because i get a lot enjoyment from just mixing .

I could rant about this all day but i dont think we would get anywhere , each to his own etc .. and apologies to the op for going so off topic congrats on the release and fair play for going with vinyl hopefully it will pay off .

seannash

electrogrimey wrote: »

For me the appeal of DJing is looking up from the booth and seeing a packed room of people dancing to and enjoying your track selection, watching them respond to your breakdowns and build-ups. That has nothing to do with the medium.

id say an overwhelming amount of djs dont get to experience that ever and as such its more about enjoying controlling what there doing and enjoying it when there at home in there bedroom.

i also just couldnt vibe off of ableton.cdjs were okay and i liked them when i dj'd out as it did combine the best of both worlds.

brianc27

i have no issue's with digital djing aslong as its done properly, in fact i thik its great done properly, if your going to use traktor pro or abelton and just mix 1 track into another then thats a cop out as far as i'm concerned, i switched to a purely digital set up over 3 years ago as i liked the idea of using loops and mixing up 3 or 4 tracks at once, but i've noticed the amount of djs around now that can't do the basics without the help of a sync button or bpm counter (as was mentioned in an earlier post), so i have recently dusted off the turntables and spent a small fortune on updating my vinyl and have started mixing records again, i'm not giving up on digital djing, im just going to keep up with vinyl mixing and start getting a good record collection going again, at least now ill have the option to play in any format i feel like.

if you can't mix at it's most basic form, 2 vinyl records on a set on turntables then really you're missing the point and shouldn't be mixing on anything.

Android 666

I think sometimes when an existing technology is usurped by a newer technology (especially when the move is from analogue to digital) certain people tend to drift back to the pre-existing technology because it seems more real or it becomes a signifier of authenticity. You can see it with the rise of interest of those shítty Lomo cameras, the grassroots support of letterpress printing, the existence of tape only analogue studios such as Toe Rag and of course the continued support of vinyl by a hardcore following. I know people say it doesn't matter what medium it is as long as the crowd gets off on it but sometimes the medium is the message. Look at Northern Soul. One of my brothers is a big fan and he has spent hundreds getting one small piece of prized vinyl in his possession. There might be repressed versions of that song but only an original will do and he will be able to spot an original from a mile off. Any if you're djing Northern Soul, they people you're playing too will want to know you're playing all originals and they can be pretty hard crowd to please. Its a fascinating scene that has some truly dedicated characters along with a load of wafflers. But if you're a serious collector of Northern Soul, you might have heard all your favourite tunes on nights out and on cds but it is all meaningless unless you have the vinyl of it in your possession. He knows people that playing some storming northern soul at different nights around the city (don't ask me which ones - I forget) but he says that when they are playing it from CDs or compilations its hard for him or any of the other hardcore faithful Northern Soul crowd to make any emotional connection with the DJ because they haven't put any dedication into getting those records.

It may seem bizarre but I can understand why the feel that way. Not something I could see myself getting worked up about but I can see their point of view. So for some people the medium is irrelevant but for its as important as the music because it is a signifier of going beyond the call of duty and trying to master something purely for themselves and a few other souls who appreciate where they are coming from. Nobody really needs to learn to beatmatch on vinyl anymore but some people are a tiny bit more appreciative of people who make a extra special effort to learn. I think you can already see the rise of people using vinyl only decks as an almost connoisseur approach to DJing. Just because you can do anything you want dosen't mean you have to and sometimes limiting yourself can produce the most focused and creative results.

Not trying to knock digital btw. My life would be fooked if I didn't have a Mac in work (not music related) but I can understand the love of pursuing the unpredictable nature of analogue and the emotional connection it produces.

electrogrimey

For me, I totally understand the draw towards vinyl. I have a record collection myself, not dance mind, but I much prefer listening to some of my favourite albums on their original vinyl than on a CD or download. There's just something about it, and the quality is much better.

But, as a DJ, using vinyl is severly limited in comparison to digital DJing or even CDs. Looping, effects, hotcues, etc. 90% of the time the crowd won't notice any of the analogue warmth and lovely chi of the vinyl you're using, so in effect for me, DJing with vinyl is just like shooting yourself in the foot, and not allowing yourself the option to use the features CDs and digital allow you to.