Lead Toxicity and Exposure concerns

Tackleberrywho

browning 12 bore wrote: »

there is a place near wicklow that takes all your game meat also the pigeons but i wonder if there is somewhere else and yes to sell the meat

A few places country wide, but not sure on Birds as the lead content etc.
if i want to eat birds i shoot with steel or copper coated shells

lead in your pencil is not always good

It wasn't me!

I guess you're using all copper rounds for the rifle so.

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A few places country wide, but not sure on Birds as the lead content etc.
if i want to eat birds i shoot with steel or copper coated shells

lead in your pencil is not always good

Thats bullsh1t. I know a man eating game, rabbits, pigeon all his life and never a problem with him. He's 78:eek:
Thats the scaremongering they're doing in England, (less buyers of game, less demand, less be shot)
No laws here about lead shot
Dont mind all that talk Tack,

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I guess you're using all copper rounds for the rifle so.

No IWM, I don't eat the head either.
Since restaurants do not use aluminium for the risk of Alzheimers I was "presuming" they would prefer to not have lead in food for human consumption.
And steel shot and Copper shoot coated is freely available, just in some cases more expensive.

Since I am not a restaurateur I can not comment further, However the health risks from lead are real, and eating 180 birds with lead may damage the OP's Pencil.

I'd prefer not to try and disprove warnings on all ammo boxes about health and lead!!

Feargal as Luimneach

Dusty87 wrote: »

Thats bullsh1t. I know a man eating game, rabbits, pigeon all his life and never a problem with him. He's 78:eek:
Thats the scaremongering they're doing in England, (less buyers of game, less demand, less be shot)
No laws here about lead shot
Dont mind all that talk Tack,

What about raptors scavenging on animals that have been shot with lead shells. Raptors can die from lead toxicity. They eat the leads shots, people spit them out.
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=105
http://www.springerlink.com/content/06713k3751071108/

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What about raptors scavenging on animals that have been shot with lead shells. Raptors can die from lead toxicity. They eat the leads shots, people spit them out.
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=105
http://www.springerlink.com/content/06713k3751071108/

they would never get to eat enough of it ,lead shot is not as bad as its made out to be .

just another way where bunny huggers are trying to discredit us .

show one independent study where ,it says a few grains of lead when digested can kill some thing .

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

they would never get to eat enough of it ,lead shot is not as bad as its made out to be .

just another way where bunny huggers are trying to discredit us .

show one independent study where ,it says a few grains of lead when digested can kill some thing .

i'd be more afraid of firing Blanks TBH (no Pun's intended)

Rather not risk it!

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

However the health risks from lead are real, and eating 180 birds with lead may damage the OP's Pencil.

That's pretty much nonsense Tackleberry. Game has been eaten for centuries with far more lead in it than you get today without ill effect. You get far higher lead toxicity levels if you're a target shooter than if you eat game (tests have found ISSF shooters with higher levels of lead in their blood than foundry workers). The concern about lead shot is to do with long-term contamination of water tables, not the very short-term contamination of a single game bird or animal. One pigeon's-worth of lead shot, which is spat out rather than eaten, is basicly risk-free (the highest risk is to your teeth on the shot). But several hundred years worth of firing lead shot fired all over the country and let migrate to the water table is a cause for concern for some, hence the moves towards steel or copper shot. It's a matter of scale and even 180 birds isn't enough to make a drop in the ocean.

deeksofdoom

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

i'd be more afraid of firing Blanks TBH (no Pun's intended)

Rather not risk it!

Stop showing yourself up, for god sake!:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

That's pretty much nonsense Tackleberry. Game has been eaten for centuries with far more lead in it than you get today without ill effect. You get far higher lead toxicity levels if you're a target shooter than if you eat game (tests have found ISSF shooters with higher levels of lead in their blood than foundry workers). The concern about lead shot is to do with long-term contamination of water tables, not the very short-term contamination of a single game bird or animal. One pigeon's-worth of lead shot, which is spat out rather than eaten, is basicly risk-free (the highest risk is to your teeth on the shot). But several hundred years worth of firing lead shot fired all over the country and let migrate to the water table is a cause for concern for some, hence the moves towards steel or copper shot. It's a matter of scale and even 180 birds isn't enough to make a drop in the ocean.

Historical Data, people died in their 60's or less and infant mortality was high.

in reality, EATING lead is not to be incouraged.
5 or six ingested pellets per bird in a human out of hundreds of birds consumed may cause lead in blood to effect reproduction.

A friend of mine can not have kids from lead levels in blood (Factory worker).
i would not want to tempt fate in that dept.

bird shot is small pellets and can be easily swallowed, No amount of solid lead in a human is good for you.

I am not talking about lead water issues, I'm talking about HUMAn direct ingestion of lead.

on this occasion Sparkie I am indeed not talking nonsense;)

Tackleberrywho

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Stop showing yourself up, for god sake!:rolleyes:

Deeks

I'm not showing myself up.
If you saw first hand what effects lead can do on a person you might think twice about it.

i know a good few fellas who got hundreds of thousands for lead in the blood

It wasn't me!

FFS, if you chew your bloody food, you'll find the lead shot and spit it out. If you don't chew your food, you've probably got significantly greater evolutionary problems (and reproduction is a point of questionable value).

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Historical Data, people died in their 60's or less and infant mortality was high.

Yes, but you tended to notice when they died blue, incontinent, impotent and demented.

in reality, EATING lead is not to be incouraged.
5 or six ingested pellets per bird in a human out of hundreds of birds consumed may cause lead in blood to effect reproduction.

It's not really likely. Hundreds of birds will take hundreds of days to consume, and the vast, vast bulk of the lead will be excreted with the remains of the food in the normal manner. The little that's extracted by your digestive tract will be eventually excreted (though it takes far, far longer to excrete heavy metals like lead, it does eventually happen). So if you eat five or six pellets over the course of half a year or more, your lead levels won't rise to any kind of worrying level.

You would probably have to be shot with the lead (and for the pellets to remain embedded afterwards) to notice any significant rise.

A friend of mine can not have kids from lead levels in blood (Factory worker). i would not want to tempt fate in that dept.

It's a concern for factory workers; for shooters, not so much. Our exposure is far more limited and far more easily controlled. Hell, just washing your hands and wrists in cold water (NOT hot water) after shooting will prevent over 90% of exposure. This is a lesson that's been going round even Irish ISSF circles for longer than I've been shooting.

bird shot is small pellets and can be easily swallowed, No amount of solid lead in a human is good for you.

Not if it remains in your system, but shot is excreted within 24 hours normally, and you don't absorb enough lead in that time to be a worry. Your highest risk from that scenario is breaking a tooth while chewing the meat (and frankly, if you're swallowing it whole without chewing, you've got other health concerns as well, like indigestion, stomach problems and even poor nutrition. Chew your food!)

I am not talking about lead water issues, I'm talking about HUMAn direct ingestion of lead.

I know. My point is that the concern over lead shot that we're seeing in the EU is to do with lead water table issues, not direct human ingestion of lead.

Sparks

From this study on the lead levels in hunters:

Game meat may contain variable amounts of lead in the form of fine metallic residues originating from hunting ammunition. The effect of frequent game meat consumption on the blood lead levels of hunters, who are a high-risk lead exposure group, was studied. Blood lead levels of hunters and control subjects were measured using isotope dilution ICP-MS. Dietary information about game meat consumption was obtained from a questionnaire. The blood lead concentrations ranged from 21-171 ng/mL with a geometric mean of 57 ng/mL (n=25). However, the individual blood lead concentrations of the hunters did not correlate with the number of their weekly game meat meals (r=0.046). The blood lead levels were compared with a control group (n=21), which consisted of voluntary blood donors from the same region. Analysis of variance, adjusted for age, did not reveal a significant difference between the two populations (p=0.89). Thus, it was concluded that frequent consumption of wild game meat has no significant effect on blood lead levels.

In other words, if you shoot, you have higher lead levels, but it's not because of eating the meat. It's more likely to be because of handling lead ammunition, breathing in lead particulates after firing the shot and cycling the action, and cleaning the rifle and so forth.

Rovi

These seem SO appropriate here:

Feargal as Luimneach

jwshooter wrote: »

they would never get to eat enough of it ,lead shot is not as bad as its made out to be .

just another way where bunny huggers are trying to discredit us .

show one independent study where ,it says a few grains of lead when digested can kill some thing .

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12739854
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12860107
http://www.ebd.csic.es/jordi/EcotEnvSaf.pdf
There you go! Independent study....;)

Did you every see cattle die from lead poisoning from licking old car batteries?
Only small amounts of lead can be fatal to them.:mad:

Think of it a golden eagle can live up to 25 years, scavenging is a major part of your diet and they will pick up lead shot. Since lead cannot be excreted by body it builds up in tissues like bone. Lead toxicity slows builds up as a result after years of exposure.

The reason lead shot is not banned in this country is expense. People are too cheap to buy the dearer safer copper/steel alternatives.

Sparks

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

There you go! Independent study....;)

About raptors who have far higher exposure levels and are a completely different species from primates...

Since lead cannot be excreted by body it builds up in tissues like bone. Lead toxicity slows builds up as a result after years of exposure.

Actually, adults will excrete 99% of the lead they're exposed to after a few weeks. Children less so, which is why lead-based paint on toys is so much of a problem.
But mostly, you can't absorb the lead except when it's in gaseous or particulate form. The sole exception was the tetrahydl lead they had in leaded petrol (which is why it was banned), you could absorb that through the skin. As shooters, we have a major source of exposure, but it's not eating game; it's being at the breech end of the rifle. The propellant vapourises and atomises lead off the bullets and inside of the rifle barrel, and we're exposed on opening the breech and/or cleaning the rifle, or in enclosed ranges. But washing your hands and wrists in cold water negates that for the most part (the lead particulates settle on your forearms and work their way down to the hands where they're transferred to food and ingested; washing with cold water sluices them away safely). Hot water opens the pores and you risk exposure that way, so cold water only. That's the advice we've been given for decades and it protects you from the vast majority of the exposure, and studies have shown this.

And for pistol shooters, change your shirt/jacket. Rifle shooters tend to have specific clothes for the range (shooting jackets and the like) - pistols shooters can shoot in anything, so they're more likely to shoot in their street clothes, but a dedicated jacket would help reduce exposure.

Of interest is this case study of lead poisoning in a shooting team in the US, which highlighted the need to also clean the range if it's an indoor range.

Sparks

Split out from another thread as this topic's worth a thread of its own.

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What about raptors scavenging on animals that have been shot with lead shells. Raptors can die from lead toxicity. They eat the leads shots, people spit them out.
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=105
http://www.springerlink.com/content/06713k3751071108/

Ah yes another great comparison, raptors and humans.;):rolleyes:

Sparks

And some studies showing the main cause of concern with lead ammunition (namely, leaching into the water tables from ranges).

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

i'd be more afraid of firing Blanks TBH (no Pun's intended)

Rather not risk it!

Iv been eating pigeon for years, and i still managed to get her pregnant and she on the pill:eek:

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12739854
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12860107
http://www.ebd.csic.es/jordi/EcotEnvSaf.pdf
There you go! Independent study....;)

Did you every see cattle die from lead poisoning from licking old car batteries?
Only small amounts of lead can be fatal to them.:mad:

Think of it a golden eagle can live up to 25 years, scavenging is a major part of your diet and they will pick up lead shot. Since lead cannot be excreted by body it builds up in tissues like bone. Lead toxicity slows builds up as a result after years of exposure.

The reason lead shot is not banned in this country is expense. People are too cheap to buy the dearer safer copper/steel alternatives.

Then you will also know its not as effective as killing cleanly as lead.
Id give you links but TBH i couldnt be arsed as i know from experience

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

Iv been eating pigeon for years, and i still managed to get her sprogged and she on the pill:eek:

Well you are only a young lad like myself lol!

I've eaten from aluminium pots and i am not suffering from Alseimers yet!

however I would not eat out of them (pots,pans,mess tins) now.

And i always wash my hands after handling ammo before eating.
I'd rater than be safe than sorry, my grandfather had alseimers, some say from handling fertilizer in the 30's-70's.

All I know is lead is not to be consumed, SAFE levels, well thats open to debate.
After all you smoke, wheich prob is waaaaaay worse for you than a few pellets.

you have a "sprog" so you need not worry. Job done!
The rest of us intending on having kids and shooting longer may want to take more precautions

Spark's is commenting on ISSF and Water quality.(to a lesser extent ingestion)

I am specifically referring to ingestion, I WOULD choose Steel shot or Winchester copper coated shot. Especially if it is freely available.
What goes in my stomach is my decision

Yee boyo's can do what you like, that was my thoughts on the subject, based on Facts and person experiences.

I seem to be on my own on this one, however i'm well used to that.;)

landkeeper

what a lot of trossachs tac :rolleyes:, the main reason birds especially ducks/swans etc get lead poisioning is the manner in which they they feed , also the fact that they pick up grit(and shot by mistake ) to help grind food in their crops that is kept there for a prolonged period that is why lead shot is banned from wetlands
humans would just excrete the shot in due course ,
raptors are apex predators therefore they are exposed to levels of chemicals that in smaller birds /mammals are relatively harmless for example the near eradication of peregrines in the british isles in the 60s was down to pesticide build up in the population

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I've eaten from aluminium pots and i am not suffering from Alseimers yet!

That's because aluminium pots are treated so that they don't contaminate the food in them. Which is the case for pretty much any food-grade container or cooking vessel made in the modern world. If you're buying home-made vessels from somewhere deep in turkmenistan, then maybe you'd have an issue, but in Dublin, you're safe enough.

And i always wash my hands after handling ammo before eating.

Hands and wrists and forearms if you've a lot of hair on them.

All I know is lead is not to be consumed, SAFE levels, well thats open to debate.

It's not about consumption, it's about exposure on the range. See the study above; the amount of game eaten had no relationship to the hunter's blood lead levels. It's down to using the firearms, not eating the game.

After all you smoke, wheich prob is waaaaaay worse for you than a few pellets.

Actually, smoking on the range is another big no-no. Apart from the fire risk (increased in an indoor range due to build-ups of unburnt propellant), smoking drives up the amount of lead you absorb through inhalation.
Smoke outside the range to avoid lead toxicity

Spark's is commenting on ISSF and Water quality.(to a lesser extent ingestion)

Actually, I'm commenting on lead exposure in general. Ingestion of lead through shot in game is not a risk factor. Ingestion of lead through poor hygiene at the range or while shooting is a factor - the particulates get on your hands, you pick up a ham sandwich a few hours later (not game!) and wind up eating a lead-covered sandwich. That's how shooters ingest the lead, for the most part. (There is a risk of inhalation in indoor ranges with poor cleaning practices, but that only affects a minority of shooters today).

Yee boyo's can do what you like, that was my thoughts on the subject, based on Facts and person experiences.

As someone reminded us recently, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Tackleberrywho

the Irish DF no longer supply Mess tins made of Aluminium and All my pots are stainless!!

And any birds I shoot for the pot I use copper coated shot.

you will find that lead pellets can lodge in your intestines, unless you eat a lot of AllBran

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

you will find that lead pellets can lodge in your intestines, unless you eat a lot of AllBran

You will also find that I chew my food. That would be my first course of action.

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

you will find that lead pellets can lodge in your intestines, unless you eat a lot of AllBran

I think if you're eating that little fibre, you'll have more immediate concerns...

4gun

Sparks wrote: »

Split out from another thread as this topic's worth a thread of its own.

For awhile I thought I had Deja vu

4gun

Dusty87 wrote: »

Iv been eating pigeon for years, and i still managed to get her pregnant and she on the pill:eek:

Sorry Dusty, but someone should have told you that pigeon is NOT a trustworthy form of contraceptive, in fact I'm sure any study of the case would find the use of pidgeons to be totally ineffective :D

Dusty87

4gun wrote: »

Sorry Dusty, but someone should have told you that pigeon is NOT a trustworthy form of contraceptive, in fact I'm sure any study of the case would find the use of pidgeons to be totally ineffective :D

Left meself open for that one. Very good 4gun:D:D

4gun

as for the topic of water contamination ..just how soluble is lead? it last for hundreds of years in pipes and on roofs...lead in its metalic form is generally safe ...from what I've read over the years including fishin with lead shot is that water fowl pick it up instead of grit and this is how it come into the bird food chain ..
on the fishind side how many lads used to crimp the shot on to the line with their teeth?
If it waas just me ...then it explains alot...all though Tackleberry ...I do have FIVE very healthy children..:p

Dusty87

4gun wrote: »

on the fishind side how many lads used to crimp the shot on to the line with their teeth?

Never thought of that but me for one, for over ten years, and still do.
Although i did bring my leathermans on, i think, all of 2 occasions

Spannerman7

Sorry for the long text, the below is taken from the Alzheimers Society's website, I do a lot of brewing (I have a 100ltr brewery at home and intend to bring it further) and looked into this but the myth was debunked years ago and is not an issue, there are certain precautions when using it and beer has a ph of 4.2, never put caustic and alu together.

Spannerman


Aluminium and Alzheimer's disease

A number of environmental factors have been put forward as possible contributory causes of Alzheimer's disease in some people. Among these is aluminium. There is circumstantial evidence linking this metal with Alzheimer's disease, but no causal relationship has yet been proved. As evidence for other causes continues to grow, a possible link with aluminium seems increasingly unlikely. This factsheet looks at the circumstantial evidence and current medical and scientific views.
Causes of Alzheimer's disease

Researchers believe that in the majority of those affected, Alzheimer's disease results from a combination of different risk factors rather than one single cause. Such factors, which vary from person to person, may include age, genetic predisposition, other diseases or environmental agents.
The chief symptoms of Alzheimer's disease are progressive decline of memory and other higher mental functions. These changes are associated with the loss of brain cells and the development of two kinds of microscopic damage in the brain known as 'plaques' and 'tangles'.
Plaques consist of an abnormal deposit of a particular protein called beta amyloid between the brain cells. Tangles occur within cells, and are formed from abnormal thread-like deposits of a protein called tau, which is normally part of the cell's 'skeleton'.
(For more information about causes of Alzheimer's disease see Factsheet 450, Am I at risk of developing Alzheimer's disease?, and Factsheet 405, Genetics and dementia.)
Evidence linking aluminium and Alzheimer's disease


The hypothesis that there is a link between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease was first put forward in the 1960s (Terry and Pena 1965, Klatzo et al 1965). Since then, researchers have claimed a number of other circumstantial links between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease, as follows:

• Aluminium has been shown to be associated both with plaques and with tangles in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease (Crapper et al 1976). However, the presence of aluminium does not mean that the aluminium was the causal factor − it is more likely to be a harmless secondary association.
• Some have claimed that people with Alzheimer's disease have a higher than average level of aluminium in their brains. However, other studies find no difference between the overall amount of aluminium in the brains of people with Alzheimer's and the amount in normal brains (Trapp et al 1978).
• Studies of other sources of aluminium, such as tea, antacid medications and antiperspirants have also failed to show a positive association with Alzheimer's disease (Flaten and Odegård 1988).
• People with kidney failure are unable to excrete aluminium, and yet they frequently have to be treated with compounds that contain aluminium. Aluminium accumulates in nerve cells that are particularly vulnerable in Alzheimer's disease. However, even after years of high exposure to aluminium, patients with kidney failure are no more likely to develop dementia or the hallmark pathological changes of Alzheimer's disease (Netter et al 1990).
• Treatment with desferrioxamine (DFO), a drug which binds aluminium and removes it from the body, also has a major effect on iron stores in the body. Therefore the effects of DFO may have nothing to do with aluminium (Gomez et al 1998).
• There have been many experimental studies on animals and on isolated cells showing that aluminium has toxic effects on the nervous system, but in almost all cases the doses of aluminium used were much higher than those occurring naturally in tissues (Gitelman 1988).

Feargal as Luimneach

Dusty87 wrote: »

Ah yes another great comparison, raptors and humans.;):rolleyes:

I was making a point about raptors. I wasn't making any comment on lead poisoning in humans. Lead shot should be banned because it is toxic to apex predators such as raptors.

Feargal as Luimneach

Dusty87 wrote: »

Thats bullsh1t. I know a man eating game, rabbits, pigeon all his life and never a problem with him. He's 78:eek:
Thats the scaremongering they're doing in England, (less buyers of game, less demand, less be shot)
No laws here about lead shot
Dont mind all that talk Tack,

Go off and eat 150 grms of lead and get back to us to see how you get on.!

Feargal as Luimneach

Sparks wrote: »

About raptors who have far higher exposure levels and are a completely different species from primates...


Actually, adults will excrete 99% of the lead they're exposed to after a few weeks. Children less so, which is why lead-based paint on toys is so much of a problem.
But mostly, you can't absorb the lead except when it's in gaseous or particulate form. The sole exception was the tetrahydl lead they had in leaded petrol (which is why it was banned), you could absorb that through the skin. As shooters, we have a major source of exposure, but it's not eating game; it's being at the breech end of the rifle. The propellant vapourises and atomises lead off the bullets and inside of the rifle barrel, and we're exposed on opening the breech and/or cleaning the rifle, or in enclosed ranges. But washing your hands and wrists in cold water negates that for the most part (the lead particulates settle on your forearms and work their way down to the hands where they're transferred to food and ingested; washing with cold water sluices them away safely). Hot water opens the pores and you risk exposure that way, so cold water only. That's the advice we've been given for decades and it protects you from the vast majority of the exposure, and studies have shown this.

And for pistol shooters, change your shirt/jacket. Rifle shooters tend to have specific clothes for the range (shooting jackets and the like) - pistols shooters can shoot in anything, so they're more likely to shoot in their street clothes, but a dedicated jacket would help reduce exposure.

Of interest is this case study of lead poisoning in a shooting team in the US, which highlighted the need to also clean the range if it's an indoor range.

I apologize, I forgot that lead is excreted but you do get a build up in tissue such as the bone. It does lead to toxicity.

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Go off and eat 150 grms of lead and get back to us to see how you get on.!

Thats some cartridge there Fearghal, good man :rolleyes:.

Id say them 150grm cartridges skin the birds for ya do they??
It just shows how little you know if you think someone who eats game is going to eat that amount at one time.

Feargal as Luimneach

Dusty87 wrote: »

Thats some cartridge there Fearghal, good man :rolleyes:.

Id say them 150grm cartridges skin the birds for ya do they??
It just shows how little you know if you think someone who eats game is going to eat that amount at one time.

I don't shoot, I never said I did. I was talking about taking it orally. Now off you go boy!

4gun

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I don't shoot, I never said I did. I was talking about taking it orally. Now off you go boy!

you take your lead orally?..

Grizzly 45

Well in this case I should be DEAD a long time ago!!
Dont know how many of us born in the 60s chewed as kids on our lead painted cots and stuck our matchbox lead painted toys in our gobs.

I used to cast my own lead soilders from old roof lead my dad salvaged off old houses,the only thing he told me to be careful of was the lead fumes coming off the aluminium saucepan I was using for a smelter on an old rickety Primus stove.
[Speaking of tetryl lead in petrol.He used to work for Exxon and in their raffineries.The crew that had to clean out the tetryl ethyl facilities were the best paid and the shortest lived apprently back in the 1950s.]

Some of the plumbing in our old house is still lead!
[With some of those more modern asbestos pipes in there as well no doubt.:eek:]
Yet it isnt a problem as there is so much lime scale build up it practically seals the lead from the water.Been drinking the water since I was born.Have eaten game shot with both leadshot and bullets since I was able to,and am still here,and thats quite alot now at this stage.Cast my own lead weights for diving and handle them as well wet or dry.
Like I said I should be long since gone.My German granddad lived til he was 99 of old age ,gave up hunting at 97,and had been hunting since he was 18.No trouble there either with lead,was sharp as a new pin until the day he died.They ate,post the Reich from aluminium pots,of very dubious quality for many years.Not one died of Alsheimers.

Our family home over there is built ona bombed out Luftwaffe
synthetic fuel processing plant.There is still tetryl in the soil,along with God knows what still leaching from blown up fuel bunkers into the water table.We have had a veg garden there for three generations,and last time it was soil tested lead was a neglible trace,but high for the surrounding areas .The health dept were more worried about us digging up an unexploded bomb from the war than lead poisioning.

So while it is dangerous,no doubt about it,it isnt depleted uranium...I would think with all the crud and pollution from car exhausts etc.
Not to mind one thing that is not considerd very often outboard boat motors with their exhaust gas bein mixed into the propwash,running on two stroke mix which is one of the biggest pollutors going.Wonder how much of that contributes to lead water pollution?

One place I would say is distinctivly unhealthy in Ireland for lead pollution is actually the old Silvermines works in Nenagh Co Tip.Been up there a few time and came away from them feeling nauseous.There are lads who hunt and sell bunnies from there,and a few deer hunters.I would love to see the lead content in that meat from backround lead contamination.More I would say from any shot.

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

i'd be more afraid of firing Blanks TBH (no Pun's intended)

Rather not risk it!

that would be some loss to the gene pool .

4gun

half the fuss about lead poisioning comes from old pewter ware that people used to eat off, acid in certin food used to dissolve the lead which was why tomatoes were considered poison
Also from lead oxide face power that was used in th 17th or 18th century.
I'd agree with Tack. to a point absolutely limit the ammount ingested to as little as possible..
but then how many shooters smoke? is lead poisioning their number 1 concern
what else should we be wary of :rolleyes:

jwshooter

Dusty87 wrote: »

Iv been eating pigeon for years, and i still managed to get her pregnant and she on the pill:eek:

you would have to stand over them dusty ,they would forget there heads

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I was making a point about raptors. I wasn't making any comment on lead poisoning in humans. Lead shot should be banned because it is toxic to apex predators such as raptors.

iv shot 1000s of shells at clays in the field beside my house , if i got the lotto numbers i reckon i would not find a grain of shot in the field

elius

Dusty87 wrote: »

Iv been eating pigeon for years, and i still managed to get her pregnant and she on the pill:eek:

You must be my long lost bro:D, Eating Rabbit's pheasants and alike for years. In fact when in the uk with my grandad for summer months all we had was rabbit Stew, Pie, casserole with the odd pigeon thrown in and peasants and i still managed to knock the misses up and as above (like dusty 87) she on the pill.(Due November;) ) Had no effects on me.


My Second cousin has 20 odd pellets in him from being shot. And not a bother on him and he's touching 80 odd....

Tac ya cant live that way everything in life has risks.

landkeeper

yeah tac;) rumor has it with some of the birds you eat you'll get more than lead poisioning

FISMA

On, albeit crude, simple test for alzheimer's is a smell test.

The olfactory part of the brain is one of the first to go when Alzheimer's strikes. This is the area that relays scent information.

Get someone to help with a blindfold test, or you could do it yourself. Get some items in bowls: cinnamon, tea, apples, lemons, Guinness, whatever and see if you can identify the smell. An inability to do so may warrant further investigation.

Finally, do not let the Guinness go to waste.:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Sparks

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I apologize, I forgot that lead is excreted but you do get a build up in tissue such as the bone. It does lead to toxicity.

It will build up if you are continually exposed to it. Even the 1% that you do not excrete in the normal way you excrete solid wastes, will be eventually excreted from the body; it's just that it takes a lot longer (often weeks or months).

But so long as your range hygiene is good, you won't be exposed to much lead (or at least, no more than anyone else is exposed to), and so it won't be in your system to begin with.

But eating shot game is not going to lead to lead exposure.

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I don't shoot, I never said I did. I was talking about taking it orally. Now off you go boy!

Fearghal, no one is denying that lead can harm you, but when is someone going to eat 150grms of lead?? Your arguement is stupid to say the least. This is the shooting forum where we are talking about weather eating game shot with lead will harm or not, not which animal can be harmed. Now off with you boy:rolleyes::rolleyes:

4gun

Dusty87 wrote: »

Fearghal, no one is denying that lead can harm you, but when is someone going to eat 150grms of lead?? Your arguement is stupid to say the least. This is the shooting forum where we are talking about weather eating game shot with lead will harm or not, not which animal can be harmed. Now off with you boy:rolleyes::rolleyes:

and to add to this,

we actually USE lead to kill animals in the first place of of course its harmful to them ....duh :rolleyes: