Brougher, major works this summer

Sponge Bob

Brougher which serves much of the midlands/connacht with a UK DTT signal has undergone a load of work including a much higher mast this summer. The mast is complete.

Interests are advised that a variable gain amp should be used with this particular mast if you start looking for it. It will increase its output enormously in late 2012/2013, 20 x at least. More of an increase than any other main transmitter on this island that I can think of.

championc

From the AgendaNi ICT Report

"Each ‘group’ of transmitters consists of a main transmitter and three ‘relays’, which bounce the signal from the main transmitter to outer-lying areas. Homes which only receive a signal from the relay transmitter are those which currently cannot receive digital television, including channels such as BBC 3 and 4, E4 and More4."

will relays be got rid of and will they then just run the whole of NI from the three main transmitters, given that you confirm that Brougher will be higher and more powerful ? I know from another thread that Divis will also be higher than it's current mast.


C

Sponge Bob

championc wrote: »

will relays be got rid of and will they then just run the whole of NI from the three main transmitters, given that you confirm that Brougher will be higher and more powerful ? I know from another thread that Divis will also be higher than it's current mast.

The full suite of Freeview HD programming will only come from a main transmitter (3 in the north one in Limavady too) and the relays will carry less channels.

Brougher IS higher like I said. Just that the gear ain't all on it yet. Brougher will be a lot more powerful in 2013 than now , other transmitters will not differ as largely meaning that amps are less likely to be swamped if you point at them now.

In Broughers case some people will have to remove their masthead amps altogether if near the border.

watty

championc wrote: »

From the AgendaNi ICT Report

"Each ‘group’ of transmitters consists of a main transmitter and three ‘relays’, which bounce the signal from the main transmitter to outer-lying areas. Homes which only receive a signal from the relay transmitter are those which currently cannot receive digital television, including channels such as BBC 3 and 4, E4 and More4."

will relays be got rid of and will they then just run the whole of NI from the three main transmitters, given that you confirm that Brougher will be higher and more powerful ? I know from another thread that Divis will also be higher than it's current mast.

That's not quite how DTT works. Or exactly analogue. Most "relays" historically rebroadcasted the main Transmitter.


No, they will not be getting rid of DTT sites, but likely adding more.

1989 Analogue
Brougher + 4 relays
Divis + 23 relays (lots of people and tricky mountains & glens in Antrim and Down)
Limavady + 13 relays.
Total 43 sites. (1989)

Originally there are only three N.I. DTT sites. More need to be added. N.I. is one (or last?) of the last places to be switched to Digital Only (Guess why?)

It was estimated that the Republic would need about 150 DTT TX sites. We are only going to have 51 and rely on Satellite for the rest of people.

DTT may give a picture or not and be more robust in terms of multipath, but at low signal levels it pixelates and freezes intermittently and stops. No amount of power or robustness of signal gives reception where there is no signal due to terrain.

championc

Hi Watty

I believe that much less power will be needed for the same end-user signal strength - yes ? Maybe irrelevant or better asked in a different way - SHOULD signal levels to end-users be stronger than they currently are ?

I have a decent signal now (ie Teletext and Nicam Stereo work) but can't get the Freeview stations. However, this would seem like the ideal basis to somewhat confirm that, post DSO, I should be able to receive everything OK - yes ?


C

Sponge Bob

championc wrote: »

However, this would seem like the ideal basis to somewhat confirm that, post DSO, I should be able to receive everything OK - yes ?

No. Brougher ( eg) broadcasts at 100kw in analogue and 0.5kw in Digital . It will increase to 20kw digital in 2013. Nowhere near as strong as analogue.

Divis is 2kw Freeview now and will go to 75kw in 2013 , analogue power 500kw.

lucernarian

Divis will be going to 100kW for PSB muxes I believe. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/broadcast/guidance/tech-guidance/81plan.pdf

lawhec

The info about a new mast on Brougher Mountain is interesting - last year there was a report which stated that Arqvia had received planning permission for a new tower on Brougher Mountain as part of the digital switch over, the new tower was to be for the new digital aerials with the aerials retained on the old tower (there is a third smaller tower as well for non-broadcast purposes, and a little further down the mountain there is a mast used by Q101 and O2). However the press release said that the new tower was to situate the new DTT aerials three metres lower than the current analogue/digital aerials on the main mast!

Might take a trip into the local planning office to see what Arqiva's plans appear to be, as well as near Brougher itself...

Brougher Mountain is destined to be the second last (Divis is last) of the 51 main transmitters in the UK to switch off analogue TV, as already pointed out current the ERP of all multiplexes is limited to just 500W at present mainly to reduce co-channel interference problems with Holywell Hill and Divis (for current DTT).

Post-DSO, the three PSB multiplexes are to be powered up to 20kW ERP each. However, the three COM multiplexes are planned to be restricted to just 2kW ERP. The main reason for this is that Brougher's COM allocations (E21, E24 & E27) are the same as the PSB allocations from Divis and the power limit is designed to keep interference to a minimum. However, looking at some coverage predictions on the UK Digital site, it looks like parts of Omagh, Mid-Tyrone and the Clogher Valley that rely on Brougher and which current receive all six multiplexes might end up with a reduced service come DSO simply because of the interference from Divis. There might be some explaining to do to viewers whom by the time Divis switches over might lose around half their stations!

In terms of coverage into the south, COM multiplex reception might prove difficult not only because of the power restriction but also the co-channel interference with Divis becoming possible as well depending on location. In terms of the PSB multiplexes, other interfering transmitters also become a factor on channels E22, E25 and E28, I can't remember if any transmitters might be a potential source of interference (Castlebar could be one, need to find that RTÉNL document to double check...)

EDIT: Just read that Castlebar is intended to use E22, E25, E28 and/or E32 for DTT with an ERP of 2kW.

championc

Whey hey, things might not be too bad. If I'm not mistaken

Site Old Analog New Digital % of Original
for same signal

Llanddona 100kw 10/20kw 10-20%
Divis 500kw 75kw 15%
Brougher 100kw 20kw 20%

I can see all Llanddona channels (although the 10kw ones are iffy) from North Dublin and I'm sure the mountains to the west of it will have reduced the potential signal strength too somewhat


C

lawhec

watty wrote: »

That's not quite how DTT works. Or exactly analogue. Most "relays" historically rebroadcasted the main Transmitter.


No, they will not be getting rid of DTT sites, but likely adding more.

1989 Analogue
Brougher + 4 relays
Divis + 23 relays (lots of people and tricky mountains & glens in Antrim and Down)
Limavady + 13 relays.
Total 43 sites. (1989)

Originally there are only three N.I. DTT sites. More need to be added. N.I. is one (or last?) of the last places to be switched to Digital Only (Guess why?)

It was estimated that the Republic would need about 150 DTT TX sites. We are only going to have 51 and rely on Satellite for the rest of people.

DTT may give a picture or not and be more robust in terms of multipath, but at low signal levels it pixelates and freezes intermittently and stops. No amount of power or robustness of signal gives reception where there is no signal due to terrain.

The digital switch over could offer the opportunity for broadcasters to no longer require broadcasting from some masts, but the "PSB" broadcasters are choosing to do so. Some relay stations are currently in place because local reception conditions for receiving from a main transmitter is poor (multiple ghosting etc.) rather than weak, but many exist as receiving from a main site, especially in more populated areas, can range from tricky to impossible. Kilkeel for example has no line of sight to any of the three main TX's. Strabane fills a hole in northern parts of Tyrone that Limavady and Brougher can't satisfactorily reach. L/Derry fills parts of the city that Limavady fails to cover. The Glens of Antrim and the Mournes provide effective barriers to Divis so current TV coverage relies on chains of relays in some of its most beautiful spots. Much of Northern Ireland's terrain to cover on UHF is quite tricky.

mike65

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Brougher which serves much of the midlands/connacht with a UK DTT signal has undergone a load of work including a much higher mast this summer. The mast is complete.

Interests are advised that a variable gain amp should be used with this particular mast if you start looking for it. It will increase its output enormously in late 2012/2013, 20 x at least. More of an increase than any other main transmitter on this island that I can think of.

which by happy chance covers, might be more appropriate wording. Its not like Southies are the intended target.

lawhec

championc wrote: »

Whey hey, things might not be too bad. If I'm not mistaken

Site Old Analog New Digital % of Original
for same signal

Llanddona 100kw 10/20kw 10-20%
Divis 500kw 75kw 15%
Brougher 100kw 20kw 20%

I can see all Llanddona channels (although the 10kw ones are iffy) from North Dublin and I'm sure the mountains to the west of it will have reduced the potential signal strength too somewhat


C

Llanddona's multiplexes are 20kW per PSB mux for PSB, 10kW per COM mux.

Divis is planned to be 100kW per PSB mux, 50kW per COM mux.

Brougher Mountain is planned to be 20kW per PSB mux, 2kW per COM mux.

Only some of the sites in the UK intending to or already broadcasting COM multiplexes do so with the same power parity to the PSB multiplexes. In some cases the COM multiplex allocations are outside of the traditional analogue aerial group and will require in many cases a Group E or wideband aerial for all services. Also COM multiplexes may be more prone to interference, the PSB multiplexes get the "best" frequencies in terms of coverage and minimal interference - or at least that's the plan.

lawhec

Happened to be up in Trillick this evening for a Gaelic Football match, so I managed to get a photo of the work, from a distance, of what's going on at Brougher Mountain. Apologies for the poor photo, a dull August evening plus digital zoom on a phone camera isn't the best but it's all I had at the time.



I got muddled up in my post yesterday about the planning permission Arqiva got last year - the permission granted was to increase the height of the second tower, not for a new tower. The main tower which currently broadcasts ATT, DTT, FM & DAB is on the left, it's almost impossible to see here but it has an aircraft hazard light at the very top that was lit at the time.

The tower on the right is the second tower. Compared to the "before" photos that are on the MB21 site, it looks like the structural work that was granted planning permission to increase the tower height last year has been completed, and from looking at it seems to agree with the local press article that the new DTT post-DSO aerials that will be on the second tower will be three metres lower than the current combined UHF aerials on the first tower as from this distance it's hard to notice any real height difference with the first mast.

The next opportunity I can get to go into the planning office in Omagh I'll see if I can get viewing the plans, probably going to have to dig out a reference number...

easkey

Brougher Mountain is planned to be 20kW per PSB mux

This is the Signal region.

lawhec

easkey wrote: »

Brougher Mountain is planned to be 20kW per PSB mux

This is the Signal region.

That's a false map - it's from the ukfree.tv site which isn't properly calibrated to the Irish Grid Reference (the coverage predictions for transmitters in Britain look OK). That map shows no coverage for almost all of Omagh when that isn't the case.

Antenna

lawhec wrote: »

as already pointed out current the ERP of all multiplexes is limited to just 500W at present mainly to reduce co-channel interference problems with Holywell Hill and Divis (for current DTT).

Post-DSO, the three PSB multiplexes are to be powered up to 20kW ERP each. However, the three COM multiplexes are planned to be restricted to just 2kW ERP.

And its not going to be omni-directional either, so it may be premature for people south of the border to get excited about possible future Freeview reception from there.
Do you (or anyone else) have any details of the Horizontal Radiation Patterns (HRP) both now, and after ASO for this transmitter?

sesswhat

Another (almost equally bad) photo of Brougher, this time from the other side. It was taken on 7/8/10. Click for bigger version.

FREETV

championc wrote: »

Hi Watty

I believe that much less power will be needed for the same end-user signal strength - yes ? Maybe irrelevant or better asked in a different way - SHOULD signal levels to end-users be stronger than they currently are ?

I have a decent signal now (ie Teletext and Nicam Stereo work) but can't get the Freeview stations. However, this would seem like the ideal basis to somewhat confirm that, post DSO, I should be able to receive everything OK - yes ?


C

I believe that to be the case if you can receive the analogue signal from the transmitter but I am waiting too for Watty's expertise and knowledge on the subject particularily about the lower digital power for the both of us. I guess he missed reading your post or has been busy.

watty

I have freesat/FTA already.

"lawhec" is well capable of explaining this.

FREETV

watty wrote: »

I have freesat/FTA already.

"lawhec" is well capable of explaining this.

No problem, thanks Watty. Hopefully with the two extra satellites going up next year for Astra 28.2E that all the Freeview channels not on FTA or Freesat will be carried then.

watty

More like 2012 to 2015. Some of the Freeview will become payTV. There is very little of significance free on Terrestrial not free on Satellite. ITV wants a more payTV model (their charter expires in 2014?). If you want UK TV and don't have a good Freeview signal today get a Freesat HD box and solid 80cm+ dish (even if you don't have HDTV set). A solid dish lasts better than cheap mesh and is likely better for Ka Band. Also in West, North West and South West a 65cm has not enough rain margin on some UK channels. The 80cm is also minimum for offset feeds of other satellites.

lawhec

There is a "rough" test available to analogue viewers using teletext that was developed by Digital UK if you're receiving BBC1, BBC2, UTV & Channel 4 through analogue broadcasts be it from Brougher, Divis, Limavady or any of its relays.

1 - choose BBC1 (analogue) and press the text button on the remote to bring up Ceefax.

2 - Go to page 284.

3 - There are two subpages, one giving some details similar to this post, and another full of white blocks.

* If the page of white blocks is complete i.e. no missing individual blocks or missing rows, then come DSO in N.I. digital reception from the same transmitter should be OK for the PSB channels at least. Repeat the above three steps for BBC2, UTV and Channel 4. If all white blocks come in clear, reception should be grand for all PSB digital reception come the switch-over.

* If there are missing rows of white blocks, but no individual blocks missing in rows that are present, post-DSO reception should still be OK but if there is a significant amount of missing rows the likely cause is heavy multipath of the signal received ("ghosting" is the usual symptom). DVB-T, even with a low guard level like that used in the UK can be quite tolerant of multipath conditions that would ruin analogue reception, but horrendous conditions can still kill off DVB-T reception.

* If there are missing individual blocks (regardless of missing rows) then according to Digital UK, your reception might not be good enough come the switch-over. Originally the advice was that if there was four or more missing blocks then reception was considered unsatisfactory, but now they say any missing blocks may cause problems post switch-over. Some viewers that lie distant from a transmitter might find that different weather or different times of the day sees notable different levels of signal strength - try the test when the analogue pictures are at their most snowy.

---

As for the radiation pattern, I don't know if post switch-over Brougher's new DTT radiation pattern will be different to the current analogue pattern. At present the high-power analogue and low-power digital transmissions are being run from the same aerial on top of the first tower, so the radiation pattern is the same. This is nulled slightly towards the south-west with the "peak" aimed north-east towards Carrickmore in Co. Tyrone. From looking at the GE06 allocations, three problems with co-channel interference become noticeable, one being the co-channel use of frequencies for COM multiplexes from Brougher Mountain and PSB from Divis, Brougher's radiation pattern for these channels will need to be careful to avoid creating large areas where the signals clash (for a potential preview, read any thread concerning "Preseli vs. Mt. Leinster"). Another is that Castlebar is to also use the same frequencies for DTT as Brougher's PSB multiplexes. Even if Brougher radiates south-westwards fairly freely, there could be parts of Connacht where Castlebar, should it use E22, 25 or 28, interfere with Brougher Mountain reception. Also there is some possibility of co-channel interference with Holywell Hill, not that there isn't presently.

FREETV

watty wrote: »

More like 2012 to 2015. Some of the Freeview will become payTV. There is very little of significance free on Terrestrial not free on Satellite. ITV wants a more payTV model (their charter expires in 2014?). If you want UK TV and don't have a good Freeview signal today get a Freesat HD box and solid 80cm+ dish (even if you don't have HDTV set). A solid dish lasts better than cheap mesh and is likely better for Ka Band. Also in West, North West and South West a 65cm has not enough rain margin on some UK channels. The 80cm is also minimum for offset feeds of other satellites.

I can't see people paying to watch ITV1-4, there was a poll in the Telegraph and about 94% of people said that they wouldn't pay for the ITV family of channels in HD. They will probably have The X Factor and Dancing on Ice shows blocked for PAY TV and a subscription and PIN number needed to view them soon. I wouldn't pay to watch any ITV dross, would you Watty? Anybody else?

lawhec

watty wrote: »

More like 2012 to 2015. Some of the Freeview will become payTV. There is very little of significance free on Terrestrial not free on Satellite. ITV wants a more payTV model (their charter expires in 2014?). If you want UK TV and don't have a good Freeview signal today get a Freesat HD box and solid 80cm+ dish (even if you don't have HDTV set). A solid dish lasts better than cheap mesh and is likely better for Ka Band. Also in West, North West and South West a 65cm has not enough rain margin on some UK channels. The 80cm is also minimum for offset feeds of other satellites.

Going off topic here, but space on any new satellites at 28 east could still be held at a premium, particularly as HD gets rolled out. 2D capacity is rumoured to be the most commercially expensive in Europe right now. Some channels on Freeview are pay on satellite as they're part of subscription deals so that itself won't change.

Hard to say if any current channel in the Freeview lineup will encrypt for a couple of reasons, one is that current FTA channel audience performance on the Freeview platform seems to be OK with most if not all broadcasters (no rumblings outside of ITV) whom at this stage would rather be pulling the plug if that were the case. Second is that a move to convert would require a reliable subscription provider, that would either be for Top Up TV to up the ante (they seem to be happy with providing a mainly semi-on demand service with a few live channels for now, I don't think they're making much if any profits) or for Sky to reignite Picnic, which at this stage seems unlikely, despite taking on staff and then laying them off plus getting hardware sanctioned through Sagem, I still don't think they were completely serious about it all - more of an arrow aimed towards Freeview.

Channels available on Freeview that are not available on Freesat...

* Sky Three*
* Yesterday
* 4Music
* Dave
* Virgin 1
* Viva*
* Dave Ja Vu
* Fiver*
* Five USA*
* Quest
* Sky Sports News (to be replaced by Sky Three +1)

Channels with an asterik to the right are available through "Freesat from Sky". If you have access to Freeview HD, then Channel 4 HD is also available.

WRT ITV, their move towards providing ITV2, 3 and 4 as HD as pay-TV only may or may not be short term in terms of business. As already stated, 2D is full for now and Channel 4 & Channel 5 had to encrypt their HD channels to subscription because of lack of suitable capacity. Very debatable as to the worth of ITV2 (Katie Price Channel), 3 (ITV Gold Channel) & 4 (sports with commentary from Sgt. John Bunnell) in HD being a potential pay-TV driver, more ITV looking to get a cut from Sky & Virgin while the SD versions will remain in the clear - Freesat not yet big enough to compensate a potential cut while there's no room on Freeview for now. Rumours a couple of years ago that the SD versions were going to pay-TV faded away. Post DSO ITV1 will have a slight advantage it that they'll be in virtually every home in the UK - if they want to give up the PSB commitments, they'll stand to lose half a multiplex that they'll have to make up with by using COM1. In future FTA may be more advantageous, remember ITV2, E4, More 4 & Film 4 were once pay-TV.

Back on topic, on another computer I have a Radio Mobile generated coverage map of current BBC1 analogue coverage from Brougher Mountain that actually shows the signal spilling over the border. I'll put it up when I can get my hands on it. I'll see if I can also generate a coverage map for PSB multiplex coverage post-DSO (though it won't be able to take interference into account).

FREETV

lawhec wrote: »

Going off topic here, but space on any new satellites at 28 east could still be held at a premium, particularly as HD gets rolled out. 2D capacity is rumoured to be the most commercially expensive in Europe right now. Some channels on Freeview are pay on satellite as they're part of subscription deals so that itself won't change.

Hard to say if any current channel in the Freeview lineup will encrypt for a couple of reasons, one is that current FTA channel audience performance on the Freeview platform seems to be OK with most if not all broadcasters (no rumblings outside of ITV) whom at this stage would rather be pulling the plug if that were the case. Second is that a move to convert would require a reliable subscription provider, that would either be for Top Up TV to up the ante (they seem to be happy with providing a mainly semi-on demand service with a few live channels for now, I don't think they're making much if any profits) or for Sky to reignite Picnic, which at this stage seems unlikely, despite taking on staff and then laying them off plus getting hardware sanctioned through Sagem, I still don't think they were completely serious about it all - more of an arrow aimed towards Freeview.

Channels available on Freeview that are not available on Freesat...

* Sky Three*
* Yesterday
* 4Music
* Dave
* Virgin 1
* Viva*
* Dave Ja Vu
* Fiver*
* Five USA*
* Quest
* Sky Sports News (to be replaced by Sky Three +1)

Channels with an asterik to the right are available through "Freesat from Sky". If you have access to Freeview HD, then Channel 4 HD is also available.

WRT ITV, their move towards providing ITV2, 3 and 4 as HD as pay-TV only may or may not be short term in terms of business. As already stated, 2D is full for now and Channel 4 & Channel 5 had to encrypt their HD channels to subscription because of lack of suitable capacity. Very debatable as to the worth of ITV2 (Katie Price Channel), 3 (ITV Gold Channel) & 4 (sports with commentary from Sgt. John Bunnell) in HD being a potential pay-TV driver, more ITV looking to get a cut from Sky & Virgin while the SD versions will remain in the clear - Freesat not yet big enough to compensate a potential cut while there's no room on Freeview for now. Rumours a couple of years ago that the SD versions were going to pay-TV faded away. Post DSO ITV1 will have a slight advantage it that they'll be in virtually every home in the UK - if they want to give up the PSB commitments, they'll stand to lose half a multiplex that they'll have to make up with by using COM1. In future FTA may be more advantageous, remember ITV2, E4, More 4 & Film 4 were once pay-TV.

Back on topic, on another computer I have a Radio Mobile generated coverage map of current BBC1 analogue coverage from Brougher Mountain that actually shows the signal spilling over the border. I'll put it up when I can get my hands on it. I'll see if I can also generate a coverage map for PSB multiplex coverage post-DSO (though it won't be able to take interference into account).

Good man yourself lawhec and if you or someone else could do the same for Divis if you have the time then I am sure that a lot of people will be interested in seeing a prediction of the overspill Freeview reception up to as far as South Dublin for whoever receives analogue from there.

watty

lawhec wrote: »

Channels available on Freeview that are not available on Freesat...

* Sky Three*
* Yesterday
* 4Music
* Dave
* Virgin 1
* Viva*
* Dave Ja Vu
* Fiver*
* Five USA*
* Quest
* Sky Sports News (to be replaced by Sky Three +1)

Channels with an asterik to the right are available through "Freesat from Sky". If you have access to Freeview HD, then Channel 4 HD is also available.

Virgin1 => Now Sky "Channel 1" may encrypt on Freeview

IMO there is nothing there to be missed. Do we have a list of "Not totally junk" Free channels on 28E Sat not on Freeview?

Sponge Bob

Yep, other than the occasional 5 usa program ( 5 usa is a sort of catchup RTE2 ) I recall none of those as being watchable Watty.

mullingar

The biggest problem for Dx'ing (getting signals from far away transmitters) is mountains/hills. (And the curvature of the earth to a lesser extent)

I have found this website to be a great tool for Dx'ing:

www.heywhatsthat.com

This is the "Line of Sight" of Divis to Palmerstown (Assuming Flat earth)



and showing curvature of the earth:


Radio/TV waves do bend slightly (dont ask me for the science), so if you have mountains mid-way you have a fair chance of freeview, if you have big hills blocking the signal closer to home, forget it.
Those graphs above show a good example and *may* get freeview


DIVIS:

http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=EGRFOOA9

Brougher Maountain:

http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=S8P9ELBV

To get your "Line of sight":

On the top-right of the screen select "View Profile", then zoom into where you live and click on it:)

lawhec

watty wrote: »

Virgin1 => Now Sky "Channel 1" may encrypt on Freeview

IMO there is nothing there to be missed. Do we have a list of "Not totally junk" Free channels on 28E Sat not on Freeview?

Virgin 1 is destined to become "Channel 1" all right in early September, but if they encrypt on Freeview, who would they get to become part of a package with? They won't encrypt on their own (Top Up TV and Sky don't have a close relationship either), and there appears to be no plans in the short term at least.

Freeview channel Virgin1, part of The LIVING TV Group, will be renamed Channel One this summer. Channel One will continue to be broadcast in the same slots on all platforms; Freeview (Ch 20), Sky (Ch 121) and Virgin Media (Ch 119) and the schedule and programming remains unchanged, featuring an impressive line-up of US imports, and compelling British home-grown and original content.

http://www.livingtvgroup.co.uk/news.php?articleID=154

Personally I watch Dave about every other night, Yesterday and the evening segment on 4Music also a fair bit, certainly more than UTV these days! It's all down to personal taste really.

For FTA on 28.2 east, Lyngsat gives a good list, you'll need to exclude the channels on the Nigeria beam though.

lawhec

mullingar - that's my new favourite toy for now! Will check that out a bit more.:D

Anyway, as promised, this is a Radio Mobile generated coverage map for BBC1 analogue (E22) from Brougher Mountain. the area covered in red is where the field strength is equal or greater than 58dbvu which the UK uses to plot coverage for UHF Band IV frequencies. Also bear in mind this doesn't take into account potential interference from other transmitters.

mullingar

lawhec wrote: »

mullingar - that's my new favourite toy for now! Will check that out a bit more.:D

Anyway, as promised, this is a Radio Mobile generated coverage map for BBC1 analogue (E22) from Brougher Mountain. the area covered in red is where the field strength is equal or greater than 58dbvu which the UK uses to plot coverage for UHF Band IV frequencies. Also bear in mind this doesn't take into account potential interference from other transmitters.

Im SOOOO close to falling into the fringe of that map :D:D,

Thankfully my current BBC1 analogue is very watchable:D;)

championc

Hey mullingar

Any chance of a link to produce this type of map for Divis ?


C

watty

lawhec did it. Not mullingar.

mullingar

The map came from lawlec


I checked my location to Divis and Brougher for the non-curvature LOS

Brougher:



= 65 miles from here

Divis:



= around 90 miles from here


Now that Brougher will be 20kw/2kw and Divis will be 100kw/50kw, The Divis signal will be around x1.5-2 the strength for the PSB Mux's and x3-4 times the strength for the COM's compared to Brougher:):),

As I seem to get a better "view" of Divis rather than Brougher (spot the spike about 5 miles from here) It looks like I will be re-aligning my aerial in 2 years!!

mullingar

I just checked out that ceefax page 284, this is what I got:



Then I checked my freeview signal:



It is watchable for some mux's in good weather, not bad for a transmitter 65 miles away pumping out the same power as a back-yard flood light! (500W)

DSOMAN

There you are gents -
These were taken a few weeks ago after installation of the new RFS S1 antenna at the Brougher Mountain site in NI. The permanent 4 tier reserve S2 antenna is now on the older BBC tower having lost it's cylinder and EMI slot antenna. DAB/ VHF services are still being delivered from the older tower. A feeder pull was yet to occur at time of images.

http://tinypic.com/r/33wv4v6/4

http://tinypic.com/r/noapzr/4

http://tinypic.com/r/sqo6pz/4

http://tinypic.com/r/15qstxh/4

http://tinypic.com/r/s3q62o/4

http://tinypic.com/r/un4pf/4

sesswhat

DSOMAN wrote: »

There you are gents -
These were taken a few weeks ago after installation of the new RFS S1 antenna at the Brougher Mountain site in NI. The permanent 4 tier reserve S2 antenna is now on the older BBC tower having lost it's cylinder and EMI slot antenna. DAB/ VHF services are still being delivered from the older tower. A feeder pull was yet to occur at time of images.

Thanks for those DSOMAN. I've never been that close but it looks like a proper little village up there:).

I wonder if they have moved on to Limavady now as there is ongoing disruption to Freeview from there? On the other hand it may be because of the work at Divis.

DSOMAN

Yes Babcock have now begun the DSO work at the Limavady site. The analogue paneled aerial was de-rigged this afternoon, the new panels are due to be installed in the coming days i expect Limavady to have a fairly quick turn around time. The analogue transmissions are now on the DTT aerial albeit about 3db down. Due to the power output requirements through smaller diameter feeders all services will suffer signal degradation, to commission new feeders would mess with the electrical length of the antenna so it's a problem that has to be weathered. The DTT antenna will become the new S2 reserve after a new dual combiner unit is installed.

Limavady has been Line Fed for quite sometime so work at Divis would not affect Limavady's output, the two RBL antennas serve a back up in case of line failure at the exchange.

Sam the Aerialman

Interestingly i just found this thread and find it rather it strange that pictures that suspiciously look like mine found their way on to this forum without my knowledge.

What's more interesting is the person claiming to have ownership of them doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. The new antenna's at Brougher Mountain are Alan Dick H-90 UHF antennas not manufactured by Radio Frequency Systems.

Limavady - "The analogue paneled aerial was de-rigged this afternoon" Well to quell that myth i was there on Friday morning (17th) and the analogue antenna was still in place both co-incidentally Alan Dick built antennas. The installed feeders could take the power requirements for a full service but they have restricted ERP so the riggers don't get cooked whilst working on the towers. As for a dual combiner unit, they will install a single combiner unit for DTT, they have a Temporary mobile Transmitter Unit on site containing the analogue tx's to free up space and to switch the services back and forth. A spare rigid feeder will be installed, 2 feeders will power the aerial in two stacks (Upper and Lower) to allow for a power decrease in the event of rigging work.

The pictures can be found at Mike Brown's (MB21) on the following link -
http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/broughermountain/index.php

paddyp

Hi Mullingar, that map is cool that little splash of red by knockcroghery in roscommon is me :cool: time to get out the ladder I think.

mullingar

paddyp wrote: »

Hi Mullingar, that map is cool that little splash of red by knockcroghery in roscommon is me :cool: time to get out the ladder I think.

It is a bit of a fluke that red spot, but considering the distance you would need to be >100m off sea level. A small sat-nav will tell you how high you are.

Google maps shows here the sweet spot

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=knockcroghery+in+roscommon&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.863178,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=knockcroghery&hnear=County+Roscommon,+Ireland&ll=53.582723,-8.146791&spn=0.027006,0.077162&t=p&z=14

paddyp

mullingar wrote: »

It is a bit of a fluke that red spot, but considering the distance you would need to be >100m off sea level. A small sat-nav will tell you how high you are.

Google maps shows here the sweet spot

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=knockcroghery+in+roscommon&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.863178,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=knockcroghery&hnear=County+Roscommon,+Ireland&ll=53.582723,-8.146791&spn=0.027006,0.077162&t=p&z=14

I'm almost exactly central on that on a clear day you can see ben bulben and if you walk 100 yards up the road you can see croagh patrick in the middle of the sunset. If you go up to the ordinance survey point on the top of the hill you can according to the locals see 14 counties. Lots of exposed karst an irish hares up there too like a mini burren.

Could I ask you what kind of an antenna I might get away with - we get serious wind up here and most of the 100 element ones are in bits after a year or two. Any ideas of a good sensitive receiver I spent an hour reading last night but most of the reviews are a few years old.

munchkin_utd

just one for the experts on Brougher reception, and wondering if I need an aerial replacement or just a filter adjustment
(Aerial location is Cavan 15km south of Fermanagh border)

Heres the page on what channels are broadcasting in analogue and digital from brougher:
http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=IH350527

Now,
I get ALL UK analogue channels good.
I get all digital MUXes loud and clear EXCEPT the Mux D and Mux 2 which are broadcast on channels 33 and 34.
(Channel 4 analogue just below these is on channel 32 and is grand, Freeview Mux A is the same low power as missing Mux 2, but is also grand)

So basically, everything UK channelwise digital and analogue south of channel 32 inclusive is there regardless of weak or strong signal.

(the RTE aerial pointing at Cairn hill is another story, but the Irish Analogue channels there beginning at channel 40 are reasonable enough. )

I suspect that the installer has a filter blocking anything on channel 33 and above on the Brougher aerial to avoid interference with interfere with RTE signals. Before freeview blocking everything UK wise above 33 would have been fine, there was nothing there and no sign of channel 5 ever coming on analogue on Brougher.

So, does that sound filter blocking scenario sound possible, or are there aerials that exist which literally only pick up the channels <=32 which are broadcast from Brougher?

(and meaning-
do i need to adjust some filter or other OR do I need a new aerial to get the missing Freeview channels?)

Sponge Bob

Look here to see where 33 and 34 may be used by RTE themselves pre DSO, Holywell Hill 33 is possibly a suspect.

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/television-frequencies.pdf

munchkin_utd

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Look here to see where 33 and 34 may be used by RTE themselves pre DSO, Holywell Hill 33 is possibly a suspect.

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/television-frequencies.pdf

mmmm
Holywell is 140km away, but if channel 33+ werent needed at the time then its not unplausable that the lad blocked them just to make life simple and eliminate one possible source of interference.
(last aerial work was about 5 or 6 years ago)

Peter Rhea

The typical diplexer for combining Brougher/Divis & Cairn Hill/Clermont Cairn was a group A (originally ch21-34, later ch21-37) /group E(ch39-68) split.

These AFAIK were split either side of ch36 or ch38 and would usually work fine apart from channels that are one either side of the splitting frequency, which would suffer some loss, so the Brougher channels should work unless some additional filtering was used.

Sam the Aerialman

I wonder did the installer use/ re-use an old fringe pass filter. If they used a 21-33 + 35-68. There would be severe attenuation through channels 33,34,35 as these are the channels on and either side of the split.

Change to a A+37 to E (E thru leg) combiner should do the trick.

championc

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Look here to see where 33 and 34 may be used by RTE themselves pre DSO, Holywell Hill 33 is possibly a suspect.

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/television-frequencies.pdf

Is there a similar PDF of DTT frequencies ?

The Cush

championc wrote: »

Is there a similar PDF of DTT frequencies ?

Not yet.

fat-tony

championc wrote: »

Is there a similar PDF of DTT frequencies ?

Here's one from an earlier publication from RTENL - covers the major transmitter sites and some relay only.

Mike 1972

lawhec wrote: »

Personally I watch Dave about every other night, Yesterday and the evening segment on 4Music also a fair bit, certainly more than UTV these days! It's all down to personal taste really.

"Yesterday" are not a bad channel either.........