Should Christains support the war in Afghanistan?

NUIG_FiannaFail

I think so. We in the west need to fight to protect our devine Christian values against eastern extremism. If we had a proper Christain government we would send troops to serve with NATO and other western/christain nations.

antiskeptic

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

I think so. We in the west need to fight to protect our devine Christian values against eastern extremism. If we had a proper Christain government we would send troops to serve with NATO and other western/christain nations.

Which Christian nations would they be (seeing as I can't think of even one off the top of my head).

Personally I don't think Christians should be getting themselves involved in geopolitical games which encourage people to focus on 'eastern extremism' whilst ignoring the reasons why the east might have become extreme.

You do know that certain 'Christian' nations were actively supporting eastern extremism in Afghanistan not so long ago don't you? Indeed, they're probably being fought against with their own arms/tactics at this very moment.

goingpostal

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this war (I think it is wrong, al-qaeda is in north-west pakistan now), western armies are losing this war. No western armies ever wins a war in this region. The Soviets put far more men and materiel into Afghanistan in the eighties and lost the war there. Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great failed to conquer this region. I think that we will see a pretty hasty withdrawal of all western armies from Afghanistan in the next few years. Obama's double or nothing wager is not paying off.

Fanny Cradock

There are no Christian nations. There is no universally agreed set of Christian values. You wont get a consensus on this.

Frankly, the idea of a warring Christian government scares the pants off me.
Theocracies have been tried in the past and always ended badly - a perverted message fuelled by a burning desire for power.

Manach

I'd disagree with Fanny C. on the first paragraph as a Catholic and a historian.
Saying that, no polity needs an religious excuse to fight in say Afganistan as it is one of the most fought over regions in the world.
Finally, perhaps I'm doing an injustice to the OP, but this might be a troll?

Fanny Cradock

Manach wrote: »

I'd disagree with Fanny C. on the first paragraph as a Catholic and a historian.

Oh yeah? I'll grant you the Vatican as an example of a Christian nation but can you name others?

johnfás

People need to differentiate between a "Christian Country" in the sense of a theocracy and a "Christian Democracy" which is a far broader term which is not innately related to any Christian church, in the same sense of "Protestant Work Ethic" not necessarily being so Protestant. Angela Merkel's governing party in Germany, for example, is the Christian Democratic Union. Similarly, Fine Gael would claim to base their policies on "Christian Democracy". Christian Democracy certainly owes its roots to the attempted application of Christian principles to public policy. However, that doesn't mean that the positions of a "Christian Democract" are necessary either biblical, or in line with the thinking of the Christian churches. The two have essentially quite different meanings, though they sound awful similar.

Soul Winner

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

I think so. We in the west need to fight to protect our devine Christian values against eastern extremism. If we had a proper Christain government we would send troops to serve with NATO and other western/christain nations.

Countries which happen to be Christian should (IMO) lend a hand in fighting any war that constitutes a real threat to its way of life as a Christian nation. But short of that NO! The question now is, does the war in Afghanistan qualify? I don't think so but I could be wrong. I think Iran is a bigger threat, as soon as it learns how to refine its own oil it will becomes more or less self sufficient then me thinks sparks will fly, but again I could be wrong there too.

War is an ugly ugly thing and it should only be resorted to when every other alternative option has been throughly exhausted and even then when the enemy constitutes a genuine threat to our way of life or to any country's way of life that is helpless to defend itself.

But as an aside: As Christians we have to remember what Paul says to the Ephesians in chapter 6

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph 6:12

"For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds..." 2 Cor 10:4

The real war is against the devil and his minions and it is for our souls, the very essence of what constitutes us as individuals unique throughout eternity and it is more important to fight that war than any earthly conflict, and we must never lower the shield in this battle until we are safe and secure over there.

padma

Just remember the Ten Commandments One of them being " You Shall NOT Murder"

Soul Winner

padma wrote: »

Just remember the Ten Commandments One of them being " You Shall NOT Murder"

Murder is different to killing in order to protect your country from enemies.

padma

Soul Winner wrote: »

Murder is different to killing in order to protect your country from enemies.

How?

Plus from a Christian perspective, the term turn the other cheek has it no meaning on your conscience?

Plus Invasion was what the Jews had to put up with considering the Romans prescence, is there a lesson here?

Soul Winner

padma wrote: »

Plus from a Christian perspective, the term turn the other cheek has it no meaning on your conscience?

If somebody slapped me on the face I wouldn't only not turn the other cheek but I'd deck him real hard. Not turning the other cheek is not the only thing that Jesus said to do that I'm not really that good at, He said many other things that I'm equally bad at doing, but I'm a work in progress and He is working on me.

padma wrote: »

Plus Invasion was what the Jews had to put up with considering the Romans prescence, is there a lesson here?

All is fair in love and war. If someone invades your country you have a God given right to defend yourself. Killing the enemies that are trying to destroy you and your loved ones is not a sin. Not turning the other cheek is not a sin. Not helping a poor and helpless country defend itself when you have the resources to do so is treating Jesus in the same way, because He said was what yo do to the least of mine you do to me.

padma

Soul Winner wrote: »

If somebody slapped me on the face I wouldn't only not turn the other cheek but I'd deck him real hard. Not turning the other cheek is not the only thing that Jesus said to do that I'm not really that good at, He said many other things that I'm equally bad at doing, but I'm a work in progress and He is working on me.



All is fair in love and war. If someone invades your country you have a God given right to defend yourself. Killing the enemies that are trying to destroy you and your loved ones is not a sin. Not turning the other cheek is not a sin. Not helping a poor and helpless country defend itself when you have the resources to do so is treating Jesus in the same way, because He said was what yo do to the least of mine you do to me.

If it suits you and the way you think fair enoughshki, yet its a slap in the face to all the early christian Martyrs who established Christianity. Those who knew the meaning of Christ's words and not only knew the meaning but also applied them through the most harrowing of persecution.

The saying is true Violence begets more violence, the ever continous monotonous cycle of violence does continue the efforts of the wicked. Love your enemies, these are more than words from Christ, they are a direct telling of what to do with your life and how to live it. Forgive them father for they know not what they do, Spoken from a deep understanding and Love. Should more Christians and non-Christians live by these guidelines there wouldn't be the violence there is today, but until the day people do there will be more hatred.

It's very simple really. No amount of I'm a Christian, but, if this happened or if that happened I will throw everything I know out the window. Seems like knowing is not good enough, maybe realizing and being in a deeper communion with the Love from God is what is needed.

Soul Winner

padma wrote: »

If it suits you and the way you think fair enoughshki, yet its a slap in the face to all the early christian Martyrs who established Christianity. Those who knew the meaning of Christ's words and not only knew the meaning but also applied them through the most harrowing of persecution.

The saying is true Violence begets more violence, the ever continous monotonous cycle of violence does continue the efforts of the wicked. Love your enemies, these are more than words from Christ, they are a direct telling of what to do with your life and how to live it. Forgive them father for they know not what they do, Spoken from a deep understanding and Love. Should more Christians and non-Christians live by these guidelines there wouldn't be the violence there is today, but until the day people do there will be more hatred.

It's very simple really. No amount of I'm a Christian, but, if this happened or if that happened I will throw everything I know out the window. Seems like knowing is not good enough, maybe realizing and being in a deeper communion with the Love from God is what is needed.

Judging is also a big no no for Jesus so be careful how you judge those whom you perceive yourself to be superior to in a strictly outward looking Christian behavioral context.

padma

Soul Winner wrote: »

Judging is also a big no no for Jesus so be careful how you judge those whom you perceive yourself to be superior to in a strictly outward looking Christian behavioral context.

aaah judge the judger hey, in seriousness this was not a judgement of you yet an observation of how mankind has continued with violence. Yet the way has been offered we have been guided by the Holy books, should we adopt the teachings, yes is my answer.

There is no such thing as superior to another, yet sometimes people have come in to our lives and have pointed us in the right direction. Are they superior to us? or is it simply they enlighten us and remind us of things. As we do them, its called sharing. This is a Loving thing to do not a judgement. Like a child we need guidance hence we look to Jesus.

colsku

Soul Winner wrote: »

If somebody slapped me on the face I wouldn't only not turn the other cheek but I'd deck him real hard. Not turning the other cheek is not the only thing that Jesus said to do that I'm not really that good at, He said many other things that I'm equally bad at doing, but I'm a work in progress and He is working on me.



All is fair in love and war. If someone invades your country you have a God given right to defend yourself. Killing the enemies that are trying to destroy you and your loved ones is not a sin. Not turning the other cheek is not a sin. Not helping a poor and helpless country defend itself when you have the resources to do so is treating Jesus in the same way, because He said was what yo do to the least of mine you do to me.

I think you'll find that the US Christians are the invaders in this case. Afghanistan and it's people are the poor and helpless, and we should be helping them not the NATO aggressors.

Soul Winner

padma wrote: »

aaah judge the judger hey, in seriousness this was not a judgement of you yet an observation of how mankind has continued with violence. Yet the way has been offered we have been guided by the Holy books, should we adopt the teachings, yes is my answer.

There is no such thing as superior to another, yet sometimes people have come in to our lives and have pointed us in the right direction. Are they superior to us? or is it simply they enlighten us and remind us of things. As we do them, its called sharing. This is a Loving thing to do not a judgement. Like a child we need guidance hence we look to Jesus.

I get what you mean but I didn't say that you were judging, I was just warning you in a spirit of love for you about judging And by me saying I don't live the traditionally accepted turn the other cheek type existence is not an effort on my part at condoning it. I'd love to be the kind of person who could do this in the way that Jesus implied. With a true loving heart for the person doing the striking. I'm not there yet sorry, I will hit back (so don't try it on me you hitters out there) But God is working on me as I said and who knows maybe someday I'll be Jesus-like enough to be able to pull the whole turn the other cheek posture off properly

Soul Winner

colsku wrote: »

I think you'll find that the US Christians are the invaders in this case. Afghanistan and it's people are the poor and helpless, and we should be helping them not the NATO aggressors.

But there are some who would argue that it is the Christian states who are helping these poor people against the terror regimes of fundamentalist religious zealots in this country. Swings and roundabouts.

colsku

Soul Winner wrote: »

But there are some who would argue that it is the Christian states who are helping these poor people against the terror regimes of fundamentalist religious zealots in this country. Swings and roundabouts.

Agreed. I think we need protection too though!

PDN

I'm pretty conflicted over the Afghanistan thing.

By nature I'm a pacifist, and I hate the idea of warfare - but if the US pull out of Afghanistan and the Taliban take over again then it becomes a living hell for every female.

I just finished reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book "Infidel" with its graphic and moving descriptions of female genital mutilation, child abuse, domestic abuse, and general subjugation of women. Then, in an airport lounge, I picked up a copy of Time magazine with a cover photo of the wife (slave) of a Taliban fighter who had her nose and ears sliced off for running away from her husband.

Fanny Cradock

That is horrifying!

Michael Doherty

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

That is horrifying!

no war is christian

Soul Winner

Michael Doherty wrote: »

no war is christian

Except the spiritual war.

CIE

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

I think so. We in the west need to fight to protect our devine Christian values against eastern extremism. If we had a proper Christ(ia)n government we would send troops to serve with NATO and other western/christ(ia)n nations.

Sounds like someone's ready to go Crusading. Must be the thing to do in Bundesland Irland.

colsku wrote: »

I think you'll find that the US Christians are the invaders in this case. Afghanistan and it's people are the poor and helpless, and we should be helping them not the NATO aggressors

Sounds like the same propaganda being fed to the EU in order to exhort the creation of the EU military under German control. Germany's been involved in Afghanistan since the late 1920s; they've been behind a lot of the problems there. If you have a problem with NATO, talk to Germany about it, since they became its controllers after the Soviet Union fell (why else do you think they went into the former Yugoslavia under the NATO banner, only to re-achieve what Kaiser William failed to do).

wolfsbane

padma said:

The saying is true Violence begets more violence, the ever continous monotonous cycle of violence does continue the efforts of the wicked. Love your enemies, these are more than words from Christ, they are a direct telling of what to do with your life and how to live it. Forgive them father for they know not what they do, Spoken from a deep understanding and Love. Should more Christians and non-Christians live by these guidelines there wouldn't be the violence there is today, but until the day people do there will be more hatred.

The 'violence begets more violence' thing is only true as far as it goes. Enough violence will stop further violence.

And it is not always wrong to use violence. It is important to distinguish between the individual's duty and the State's. The latter is not called on to turn the other cheek, but to avenge injustice. The State may wage a just war. It response to terrorism or invasion must not be pacifism, for God has appointed it to protect its citizens.

That is not of course to say that the present Afghan/Iraq wars are just. Their justness must be assessed other than by the rhetoric of politicians. That is difficult for us to do at times, as we don't have access to all the information. Often we have to make assessments based on how truthful we think the contending leaders are, or their claims of right in relation to each nation.

God however knows all the thoughts and intents of every heart. Propaganda has no effect on Him. All the hidden motives and dirty deeds are known completely. He will pay the nations according to their ways.
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Romans 13:4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

wolfsbane

colsku wrote: »

I think you'll find that the US Christians are the invaders in this case. Afghanistan and it's people are the poor and helpless, and we should be helping them not the NATO aggressors.

But how should we help them? Restore the Taliban?

Or do you mean just leave them to their own devices and see who comes out on top? That might be helping us, if the war there can't be won, but can we call it helping them?

Seriously, I'm interested to know how we can best help these poor people.
___________________________________________________________________
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law

Splendour

PDN wrote: »

I'm pretty conflicted over the Afghanistan thing.

By nature I'm a pacifist, and I hate the idea of warfare - but if the US pull out of Afghanistan and the Taliban take over again then it becomes a living hell for every female.

I just finished reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book "Infidel" with its graphic and moving descriptions of female genital mutilation, child abuse, domestic abuse, and general subjugation of women. Then, in an airport lounge, I picked up a copy of Time magazine with a cover photo of the wife (slave) of a Taliban fighter who had her nose and ears sliced off for running away from her husband.

Exactly PDN-I don't believe in going into any country to defend/push Christian 'values' per se onto any nation but from a humanitarian viewpoint it is sometimes a necessity to go into some countries.
Excellent book that-first hand information of how some women are treated as mere chattel...

gaynorvader

Splendour wrote: »

Exactly PDN-I don't believe in going into any country to defend/push Christian 'values' per se onto any nation but from a humanitarian viewpoint it is sometimes a necessity to go into some countries.
Excellent book that-first hand information of how some women are treated as mere chattel...

And what gives one the right to decide what is "right"? I saw female genital mutilation thrown out there as a justification, but what of male genital mutilation practiced by the Jews? If the females of Afghanistan want equality, they could go about it the same way Western women did. Enforcing doctrines breeds nothing but resentment and civil unrest.
I'm not saying that I support Muslim extremism. I think it gives Islam a bad name, but Christian extremism would be just as wrong. Twisting your beliefs in order to satisfy your personal desires is morally wrong. A war in which you defend your way of life is fine, I would even support a war to defend others' way of life. I would not however support a war to push your beliefs onto someone else, that's atrocious.

PDN

gaynorvader wrote: »

And what gives one the right to decide what is "right"? I saw female genital mutilation thrown out there as a justification, but what of male genital mutilation practiced by the Jews? If the females of Afghanistan want equality, they could go about it the same way Western women did. Enforcing doctrines breeds nothing but resentment and civil unrest.
I'm not saying that I support Muslim extremism. I think it gives Islam a bad name, but Christian extremism would be just as wrong. Twisting your beliefs in order to satisfy your personal desires is morally wrong. A war in which you defend your way of life is fine, I would even support a war to defend others' way of life. I would not however support a war to push your beliefs onto someone else, that's atrocious.

I haven't seen anyone here support a war to push their beliefs onto someone else, or advocating enforcing any doctrines.

And, while we're at it, it is plainly silly to equate male circumcision (the removal of the foreskin, routinely practiced in many secular societies for hygenic non-religious reasons) with female genital mutilation (cutting or scraping off a child's clitoris and labia and then sowing up her vagina so that sexual intercourse will always be painful and never pleasureable).

gaynorvader

PDN wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone here support a war to push their beliefs onto someone else, or advocating enforcing any doctrines.

And, while we're at it, it is plainly silly to equate male circumcision (the removal of the foreskin, routinely practiced in many secular societies for hygenic non-religious reasons) with female genital mutilation (cutting or scraping off a child's clitoris and labia and then sowing up her vagina so that sexual intercourse will always be painful and never pleasureable).

The OP seems to support enforcing Christian values on the people of Afghanistan, perhaps I've misinterpreted what was said and if so, I apologise.

I didn't mean to equate circumcision with FGM. However, cutting off a child's foreskin so that sexual intercourse will be less pleasurable is not so far removed from the reasoning behind FGM. Also, there are no proven hygienic benefits for circumcision.

irishconvert

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

I think so. We in the west need to fight to protect our devine Christian values against eastern extremism. If we had a proper Christain government we would send troops to serve with NATO and other western/christain nations.

"Thou shall not kill"

Fanny Cradock

gaynorvader wrote: »

The OP seems to support enforcing Christian values on the people of Afghanistan, perhaps I've misinterpreted what was said and if so, I apologise.

I didn't mean to equate circumcision with FGM. However, cutting off a child's foreskin so that sexual intercourse will be less pleasurable is not so far removed from the reasoning behind FGM. Also, there are no proven hygienic benefits for circumcision.

AFAIK, the OP is an atheist. Whatever about hygienic benefits to circumcision there are medical benefits to circumcision. But this is well off topic.

seawolf145

antiskeptic wrote: »

Which Christian nations would they be (seeing as I can't think of even one off the top of my head).

How about half the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror

Puck

I don't understand how or why people describe any nation as a Christian nation. In my experience the very same people spend the other half of their time (when they're not insisting that their country is a Christian country) criticising the very same country for its lack of Christian values. Stop insisting that countries are Christians and have more concern for the individual souls that make up the country. There are no Christian nations, only Christian people.

I had to Google that picture that PDN mentioned. She's beautiful and strong and horribly scarred, the wickedness of man (including my own) will never cease to shock me. Something must be done to defend the people of Afghanistan, it looks like it was lovely, progressive country before the Taliban got their hands on it:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in_afghanistan?page=full

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/19/afghan.untold/index.html

PDN

seawolf145 wrote: »

How about half the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror

I don't see any Christian countries mentioned in your link - although Ethiopia did claim to be a Christian country many years ago.

seawolf145

PDN wrote: »

I don't see any Christian countries mentioned in your link - although Ethiopia did claim to be a Christian country many years ago.

Oh Sorry excuse me i am Scandinavian.
Didnt know that Ireland was the only Christian country.Maybe we should continue worshipping Odin and Thor again and maybe take Valhalla instead of Heaven.

Fanny Cradock

seawolf145 wrote: »

Oh Sorry excuse me i am Scandinavian.
Didnt know that Ireland was the only Christian country.Maybe we should continue worshipping Odin and Thor again and maybe take Valhalla instead of Heaven.

That doesn't make any sense.

seawolf145

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense.

I don't see any Christian countries mentioned in your link - although Ethiopia did claim to be a Christian country many years ago

This doesnt make any sence either?Is it just me or?

Fanny Cradock

I haven't read your link but PDN's meaning seems fairly obvious.

seawolf145

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I haven't read your link but PDN's meaning seems fairly obvious.

In what way obvious?Its not to me anyway?

Fanny Cradock

irishconvert wrote: »

"Thou shall not kill"

BTW, all translations I have looked at don't mention the word kill, they mention the word murder. While I support the rights of conscientious objectors it is debatable if this position is expressly taught in all cases. For example, one could argue that choosing not to directly fight the evil of Nazism (and I realise that there are many ways to fight) is itself a form of evil.

seawolf145 wrote: »

In what way obvious?Its not to me anyway?

I'll let PDN explain it to you.

seawolf145

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

BTW, all translations I have looked at don't mention the word kill, they mention the word murder. While I support the rights of conscientious objectors it is debatable if this position is expressly taught in all cases. For example, one could argue that choosing not to directly fight the evil of Nazism (and I realise that there are many ways to fight) is itself a form of evil.



I'll let PDN explain it to you.

Thank you

PDN

seawolf145 wrote: »

In what way obvious?Its not to me anyway?

Antiskeptic asked which Christian countries are involved in Afghanistan.

You replied by saying about half the world.

My point is that none of those are Christian countries. Neither is Ireland a Christian country.

seawolf145

PDN wrote: »

Antiskeptic asked which Christian countries are involved in Afghanistan.

You replied by saying about half the world.

My point is that none of those are Christian countries. Neither is Ireland a Christian country.

So Who\what is a christian country?Excuse my ignorance!!!
You mentioned earlier Ethiopia did claim to be a Christian country many years ago.
They are not Christian today?And Why not?
And according to wikipedia

According to the 2007 National Census, Christians make up 62.8% of the country's population (43.5% Ethiopian Orthodox, 19.3% other denominations), Muslims 33.9%, practitioners of traditional faiths 2.6%, and other religions 0.6%[1] This is in agreement with the updated CIA World Factbook, which states that Christianity is the most widely practiced religion in Ethiopia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia

PDN

seawolf145 wrote: »

So Who\what is a christian country?Excuse my ignorance!!!
You mentioned earlier Ethiopia did claim to be a Christian country many years ago.
They are not Christian today?And Why not?
And according to wikipedia

According to the 2007 National Census, Christians make up 62.8% of the country's population (43.5% Ethiopian Orthodox, 19.3% other denominations), Muslims 33.9%, practitioners of traditional faiths 2.6%, and other religions 0.6%[1] This is in agreement with the updated CIA World Factbook, which states that Christianity is the most widely practiced religion in Ethiopia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia

I don't believe that there is any such thing as a Christian country. Nor do I think there should be any such thing.

Christianity is a faith system which, if practised anything close to how Jesus taught, will inevitably favour the weak and the dispossessed over the politically powerful. Any nation that claims to be Christian inevitably ends up perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justifying greed and oppression. Therefore Christianity has always operated best as a countercultural force.

The United States, although a large percentage of the population has always claimed to be Christian, has from the beginning observed the separation of Church and State. I wish others had the same good sense.

seawolf145

PDN wrote: »

I don't believe that there is any such thing as a Christian country. Nor do I think there should be any such thing.

Christianity is a faith system which, if practised anything close to how Jesus taught, will inevitably favour the weak and the dispossessed over the politically powerful. Any nation that claims to be Christian inevitably ends up perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justifying greed and oppression. Therefore Christianity has always operated best as a countercultural force.

The United States, although a large percentage of the population has always claimed to be Christian, has from the beginning observed the separation of Church and State. I wish others had the same good sense.

Ok fair enough i am not a religious man myself,but back to the conflict in Afghanistan.
The war against terror should really be a matter for the hole world though.
Doesnt matter if you are Christian,Buddist or Muslim or Atheist for that matter.
Its a thing that concerns us all isnt it?if its not stopped now its going to effect us sooner or later!!!

antiskeptic

seawolf145 wrote: »

Ok fair enough i am not a religious man myself,but back to the conflict in Afghanistan.
The war against terror should really be a matter for the hole world though.
Doesnt matter if you are Christian,Buddist or Muslim or Atheist for that matter.
Its a thing that concerns us all isnt it?if its not stopped now its going to affect us sooner or later!!!

One of the first questions to be asked before deciding to go and kill other people is: am I being manipulated by others into thinking there is a justifiable reason to go kill other people?

In the case of the so-called War on Terror there is very good reason to question the underlying motives - not least of which is the person(s) pushing the start button on said war: George Bush and the puppeteers behind him.

(If anything amazes me it's the time taken by those oppressed by US Imperialism to strike back on their oppressors home turf)

wolfsbane

PDN wrote: »

I don't believe that there is any such thing as a Christian country. Nor do I think there should be any such thing.

Christianity is a faith system which, if practised anything close to how Jesus taught, will inevitably favour the weak and the dispossessed over the politically powerful. Any nation that claims to be Christian inevitably ends up perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justifying greed and oppression. Therefore Christianity has always operated best as a countercultural force.

The United States, although a large percentage of the population has always claimed to be Christian, has from the beginning observed the separation of Church and State. I wish others had the same good sense.

Yes, I agree that there cannot be a Christian country in that sense. But in the sense of one run by or on behalf of those with Christian beliefs, there have been some - and still are to some extent.

Any nation whose constitution professes it to be 'under God' can be said to be a Christian country. That most are terrible examples of Christian practice is another issue.

Most of Europe; the U.K; Ireland; the U.S.A; Latin America; etc. have a formal Christian origin.

However, most of those countries - the U.K. and The U.S.A. especially - are run by atheists and are rapidly adopting expressly non-Christian laws and worldviews. It has not been Christian principles that have motivated their conduct for many years. Christian belief has been at most a restraint on the hedonism of the rulers and most of the governed.
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Acts 4:27 “For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together

Puck

"Under God" is not a specifically Christian term.

wolfsbane

Puck wrote: »

"Under God" is not a specifically Christian term.

It was used to signify the nation's subjection to the Christian God. Not just any god.
_________________________________________________________________
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

Puck

Arguing that a nation is Christian because it mentions God in its constitution is like arguing that a person is Christian because they were baptised as a baby.