Yet Another World XV Thread.

thomond2006

Tony Woodcock
Kevin Mealamu
Nicolas Mas
Brad Thorn
Alastair Kellock (Awesome against the Argies in the summer tests)
Stephen Ferris
David Pocock
Imanol Harinordoquy
Will Genia
Dan Carter
Joe Rokocoko
Quade Cooper (can play at 12)
Conrad Smith
Cory Jane
Clement Poitrenaud

A lot of difficult (and perhaps wrong) decisions there, thoughts?

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tony Woodcock
Kevin Mealamu
Nicolas Mas
Brad Thorn
Alastair Kellock (Awesome against the Argies in the summer tests)
Stephen Ferris
David Pocock
Imanol Harinordoquy
Will Genia
Dan Carter
Joe Rokocoko
Quade Cooper (can play at 12)
Conrad Smith
Cory Jane
Clement Poitrenaud

A lot of difficult (and perhaps wrong) decisions there, thoughts?

Fabien Barcella
William Servat
Ben Alexander
Brad Thorn
Victor Matfield
Rocky Elsom
Richie McCaw
Jamie Heaslip
Will Genia
Dan Carter
Tommy Bowe
Yannick Jauzion
Conrad Smith
Corey Jane
clement poitrenaud

Everyone is going to have different opinions,I have tommy bowe on the wrong wing but he has to be there imo.
Mine is not wholly based on form because Elsom and possibly mattfield would be left out.

I would have issue with Rokocoko,Kellock,Ferris,Pocock being included,my 2cents.

CatFromHue

im not a huge fan of these lists but its interesting that you both have dan carter at 10.

he is a bit out of sorts at the moment, especially his goal kicking, but then when you think of all the other 10's out there he prob is the world no.1

handsomecake

muliaina
jane
smith(most under rated player in world rugby)
cooper (im accomodating him)
ioane
carter
genia
read
mccaw
kaino
nallet
thorn
woodcock
mealamu
franks

backrow67n8

Woodcock
Du Plessis (even though he's injured/suspended?)
Heyman
Thorn
Matfield
Elsom
McCaw
Heaslip
Du Preez
Carter
Bowe (I had to put him somewhere)
Contepomi (thought he was awesome against France)
Smith
Jane
Muliaina

wonton

CatFromHue wrote: »

im not a huge fan of these lists but its interesting that you both have dan carter at 10.

he is a bit out of sorts at the moment, especially his goal kicking, but then when you think of all the other 10's out there he prob is the world no.1

he has been great in the summer tests and the tri nations so far imo

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

im not a huge fan of these lists but its interesting that you both have dan carter at 10.

he is a bit out of sorts at the moment, especially his goal kicking, but then when you think of all the other 10's out there he prob is the world no.1

Have you been watching the tri nations?
He has been immence.

PhatPiggins

Allyson Putrid Roadblock wrote: »

Have you been watching the tri nations?
He has been immence.

You use that word far too lightly(Wynand Oliver!!)

His place kicking is way down on norm and kicking out of hand has slowed right down. Hasn't been put under any pressure by any 7 this season but he looks like he's playing at 65% capacity.

CatFromHue

new zealand have been immense in the tri nations, carter has been good.

i dont think he is at the standard he has set for himself.

his goal kicking is poor

Dougalicious

Woodcock
Du Plesis
Hayman
Thorn
Matfield
Ferris
McCaw
Harrinordiquay
Du Preez
Carter
Habanna
O'Driscoll(still has to be there, even if he passed best)
Smith
Syvivatu
Hernandez(i know he plays 10 now but he would be my pick as there's no standout candidate)

PhatPiggins

PhatPiggins wrote: »

You use that word far too lightly(Wynand Oliver!!)

His place kicking is way down on norm and kicking out of hand has slowed right down. Hasn't been put under any pressure by any 7 this season but he looks like he's playing at 65% capacity.

Fair enough about his kicking but its him to thank for the distribution that has netted them 15 tries so far and pretty much won the tournament.

pappyodaniel

Carl Heymans
John Smith or Bismark Du Plessis
Nicolas Mas
Brad Thorn
Victor Matfeld
Schalk Burger
David Pocock
Imanol Harinordoquy
Fourie Du Preez but Will Genia has everything
Dan Carter
Bryan Habana
Yannick Jauzion
Conrad Smith
James O'Connor
Mils Muliaina

Ciaran-Irl

1. Fabien Barcella
2. Stephen Moore
3. Carl Hayman
4. Brad Thorn
5. Victor Matfield
6. Dussatoir
7. Richie McCaw
8. Heaslip
9. Fouie Du Preez
10.Dan Carter
11.Bryan Habana
12.Jauzion
13.Conrad Smith
14.Cory Jane
15.Mils Muliaina

16. William Servat
17. Ben Alexander
18. Donncha O Callaghan
19. Imanol Harinordoquy
20. Morgan Parra
21. Quade Cooper
22. Aurélien Rougerie

How it pains me to leave out Brian O Driscoll.

buck65

New Zealand.

another10

Stephen Ferris? He should be nowhere near a world XV at the moment.

bamboozle

Quade Cooper has to be the best rugby player around at the moment, a joy to watch, Genia is also top notch.

cant see beyond Oz for the world cup next year.

Luckycharm

Dougalicious wrote: »

Woodcock
Du Plesis
Hayman
Thorn
Matfield
Ferris
McCaw
Harrinordiquay
Du Preez
Carter
Habanna
O'Driscoll(still has to be there, even if he passed best)
Smith
Syvivatu
Hernandez(i know he plays 10 now but he would be my pick as there's no standout candidate)

NO he doesn't and on current form Smith is well ahead of him. Ferris needs a long injury free period to make it imho as everytime he looks like he is about to ignite he gets injured.

Ciaran-Irl

bamboozle wrote: »

Quade Cooper has to be the best rugby player around at the moment, a joy to watch, Genia is also top notch.

cant see beyond Oz for the world cup next year.

Having some good players isn't enough. Overall, NZ's first 15 are miles better. Australia's 1, 4, 8, 11, 13 & 15 aren't quite good enough to win a world cup.

On 6 nations form, France would also beat Australia, but they have been a million miles off 6 nations form this summer.

Australia are the second best team in the world right now, but they are a distant second to be honest.

bamboozle

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Having some good players isn't enough. Overall, NZ's first 15 are miles better. Australia's 1, 4, 8, 11, 13 & 15 aren't quite good enough to win a world cup.

On 6 nations form, France would also beat Australia, but they have been a million miles off 6 nations form this summer.

Australia are the second best team in the world right now, but they are a distant second to be honest.

the world cup is still over a year away, that's plenty of time for Pocock, Cooper, Genia, O'Connor, Mumm, Horne to gain further top class experience and become star international players, the OZ team is very young for an international team and will only get better.

Ian_K

Barcella
Servat
Castrogiovanni

Thorn
Matfield

Brussow
Pocock
Parisse

Genia
Carter

SB Williams
Fourie

Sivivatu
Bowe
2009 Kearney

PhatPiggins

Luckycharm wrote: »

NO he doesn't and on current form Smith is well ahead of him. Ferris needs a long injury free period to make it imho as everytime he looks like he is about to ignite he gets injured.

I think you'll find that he has Smith in at 13.

another10

Woodcock
Servat
Alexander
Thorne
Matfield
Kaino
Pocock
Heaslip

Du Preez
Carter
Rougerie
Jauzion
Smith
Jane
Muliaina

PhatPiggins

Allyson Putrid Roadblock wrote: »

Fair enough about his kicking but its him to thank for the distribution that has netted them 15 tries so far and pretty much won the tournament.

True his distribution has always been top notch but he's being given an age on the ball. Most decent 10's would look good in this years AB's team considering the armchair ride Carter is getting.

I think the comment that Carter is in the XV almost by default even though not playing particularly well is valid enough.

buck65

Re Ferris, I've been hearing about Ferris and Heaslip as world class players for the past 2 years. Heaslip has proved himself time and again but I fear Ferris may be a bit overhyped. Sure he looked good in a couple of Ulster's HCup games and on the Lions tour but for Ireland has he really done it? The lad is blighted by injury but all this expectation and hype must be a pressure to him.

Ian_K

PhatPiggins wrote: »

True his distribution has always been top notch but he's being given an age on the ball. Most decent 10's would look good in this years AB's team considering the armchair ride Carter is getting.

I think the comment that Carter is in the XV almost by default even though not playing particularly well is valid enough.

Even if he is only kicking 65%, his running, offloading and awareness still put him streets ahead of most other OHs. His class would shine through behind a struggling pack too but we'll probably never see this scenario

PhatPiggins

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Having some good players isn't enough. Overall, NZ's first 15 are miles better. Australia's 1, 4, 8, 11, 13 & 15 aren't quite good enough to win a world cup.

On 6 nations form, France would also beat Australia, but they have been a million miles off 6 nations form this summer.

Australia are the second best team in the world right now, but they are a distant second to be honest.

Ben Robinson is easily in the top 3 looseheads in the world. Ma'afu is poo but they have the excellent Ben Alexander to come back in there.

Richard Brown is a bit light weight but as soon as the far better Wycliff Palu returns to fitness he'll be dropped.

They do miss a foil for Sharpe alright who doesn't have the legs for the 80 anymore.

There's a wealth of back 3 players like Hynes,Iaone etc to come back as well but they could still use a specialist 15 like Burke/Latham.

13 is the big problem position as they miss the hard running of Mortlock more then they expected.

In short I don't think they're that distant a second(third imo) they just seem to be lacking the bottle more then anything which is not something you usually attribute to an Australian team of any sort.

PhatPiggins

buck65 wrote: »

Re Ferris, I've been hearing about Ferris and Heaslip as world class players for the past 2 years. Heaslip has proved himself time and again but I fear Ferris may be a bit overhyped. Sure he looked good in a couple of Ulster's HCup games and on the Lions tour but for Ireland has he really done it? The lad is blighted by injury but all this expectation and hype must be a pressure to him.

Short answer no. The Lions injury was particularly unfortunate because he was the standout player on the tour up to that point.

danthefan

New Zealand 1-15. Miles better than anything else out there. No Irish player would be anywhere near the World XV at the moment.

wixfjord

danthefan wrote: »

New Zealand 1-15. Miles better than anything else out there. No Irish player would be anywhere near the World XV at the moment.

Tommy and Heaslip?

buck65

Tony "Soft hands" Buckley?

Ciaran-Irl

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Ben Robinson is easily in the top 3 looseheads in the world. Ma'afu is poo but they have the excellent Ben Alexander to come back in there.

Richard Brown is a bit light weight but as soon as the far better Wycliff Palu returns to fitness he'll be dropped.

They do miss a foil for Sharpe alright who doesn't have the legs for the 80 anymore.

There's a wealth of back 3 players like Hynes,Iaone etc to come back as well but they could still use a specialist 15 like Burke/Latham.

13 is the big problem position as they miss the hard running of Mortlock more then they expected.

In short I don't think they're that distant a second(third imo) they just seem to be lacking the bottle more then anything which is not something you usually attribute to an Australian team of any sort.

I'm not saying these players are bad. They're brilliant - mostly better than anything in the home nations, but I still don't reckon they will have a chance of winning the world cup.

Ben Alexander is up there all right at Tighthead, but I wouldn't rate Ben Robinson quite as highly. He is excellent, but the French & NZ looseheads are all ahead of him I'd say.

Palu is good, but not in the top 10 number 8s in the world right now. Top 10 (in no particular order) Heaslip, Reid, Parisse, Juan Fernández Lobbe, Harinordoquy, Picamoles, Bonnaire, Johnnie Beattie, Xavier Rush, Rodney So'oialo - all better that Palu. All better that that Richard Brown chap too. Even that plank of wood Pierre Spies is better.

They do look good in the back three - from a distance. In terms of raw ability, Jame O Conner especially could be amazing, but as things stand, they aren't at World Cup level. Maybe in 2-5 years. The French or NZ back three are far better than them, and on a good day, the Irish or South African back three would give them a run for their money.

I suspect that they will not be good enough in 1 year, and they will peak in 3 years. Too late and too early for either world cup cycle.

wonton

I think you mean Tony "can't scrum" Buckley

PhatPiggins

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I'm not saying these players are bad. They're brilliant - mostly better than anything in the home nations, but I still don't reckon they will have a chance of winning the world cup.

Ben Alexander is up there all right at Tighthead, but I wouldn't rate Ben Robinson quite as highly. He is excellent, but the French & NZ looseheads are all ahead of him I'd say.

Palu is good, but not in the top 10 number 8s in the world right now. Top 10 (in no particular order) Heaslip, Reid, Parisse, Juan Fernández Lobbe, Harinordoquy, Picamoles, Bonnaire, Johnnie Beattie, Xavier Rush, Rodney So'oialo - all better that Palu. All better that that Richard Brown chap too. Even that plank of wood Pierre Spies is better.

They do look good in the back three - from a distance. In terms of raw ability, Jame O Conner especially could be amazing, but as things stand, they aren't at World Cup level. Maybe in 2-5 years. The French or NZ back three are far better than them, and on a good day, the Irish or South African back three would give them a run for their money.

I suspect that they will not be good enough in 1 year, and they will peak in 3 years. Too late and too early for either world cup cycle.

Good post hard to argue with most of it bar difference of opinion regarding how good a few of the players you mentioned are.

I think essentially we're on the same track they close to being brilliant but don't look like getting there with the current squad

[Jackass]

Ferris is an excellent 6 by international standards, but he's nowhere near the likes of Rocky Elsom. The impact that guy had on Europe in one season (being nominated in the player of the first 15 years having played only 9 games as apposed to 50+ for all other candidates) is a mark of the quality of the man, and also being named captain of Australia in order to bring him back shows how highly regarded he is back home. Best 6 in the world imo.

As for eight, i can see Heaslip being a contender at 8 in a world XV team. O'Driscolls form last season was only ok by his standards so wouldn't see him on the team for last season, but he would have been the captain of it the season before.

McCaw at 7 also.

PhatPiggins

[Jackass] wrote: »

Ferris is an excellent 6 by international standards, but he's nowhere near the likes of Rocky Elsom. The impact that guy had on Europe in one season (being nominated in the player of the first 15 years having played only 9 games as apposed to 50+ for all other candidates) is a mark of the quality of the man, and also being named captain of Australia in order to bring him back shows how highly regarded he is back home. Best 6 in the world imo.

As for eight, i can see Heaslip being a contender at 8 in a world XV team. O'Driscolls form last season was only ok by his standards so wouldn't see him on the team for last season, but he would have been the captain of it the season before.

McCaw at 7 also.

Elsom is a good player and all that but his inclusion on the Euro Star XV was pushing it. Personally untill I see him dominate a tri nations game I'll hold off on calling him the best 6 in the world.

Has ever been MOTM in a Tri Nations game? I think Deans may be regretting making him captain but seeing as his other options were Giteau and 60 minute Sharpe I can see why he did. That and luring him home of course.

danthefan

wixfjord wrote: »

Tommy and Heaslip?

Heaslip possibly because there aren't too many standout 8s at the moment but Bowe hasn't done anything in the season just gone at international level that's made him look like one of the best wingers in the world.

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

Heaslip possibly because there aren't too many standout 8s at the moment but Bowe hasn't done anything in the season just gone at international level that's made him look like one of the best wingers in the world.

Heaslip should get it because he's been great for two seasons but Read has had a superb season so far.

Ian_K

People here have such short memories, have you all forgotten how good Parisse is just because he had a bad injury last season

another10

Parisse isnt as good as people think. Looks good for Italy because he can do what he likes (drop goals) but Id have Heaslip instead of him anyday.

As for the guy who asked if Rocky has ever got man of the match in a tri nations game, he won 3 in the Summer before he came to Leinster.

porterbelly

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Palu is good, but not in the top 10 number 8s in the world right now. Top 10 (in no particular order) Heaslip, Reid, Parisse, Juan Fernández Lobbe, Harinordoquy, Picamoles, Bonnaire, Johnnie Beattie, Xavier Rush, Rodney So'oialo - all better that Palu. All better that that Richard Brown chap too. Even that plank of wood Pierre Spies is better.

Bonnaire's best position is at blindside, he can cover 8 but he shouldn't be included in this. Picamoles has been found out somewhat in that's he's a bit of a 1 dimensional rumbler and he doesn't deserve to be mentioned along with these great names. Rodney So'olialo is nowhere near what he was.

Best no8's in my opinion at the minute
1. Sergio Parisse- He may have been injured for nearly all of last year but his performance against the Springboks in the 1st of the Italy's summer tests proves that this man is a class apart. A truly special player.

2. Imanol Harinordoquy-Inspirational for both France and Biarritz.

3. Jamie Heaslip-Fast becoming one of the best in the game, consistently excellent for club and country.

4. Chris Masoe-Followers of the top 14 will know what this man is all about. Has transformed Castres from perennial strugglers to title challengers. Magnificent every week, what Graham Henry would give to have him for the World Cup.

5. Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe-No coincedence that Sale Sharks have gone downhill in his absence. Wears his heart on his sleeve and covers every blade of grass, he's got everything.

6. Xavier Rush-An old fashioned thoroughbred who seems to be getting better with age. Another man Graham Henry would love to have on board.

7. Luke Watson-Has given a new dimension to Bath since joining them and has been named captain for the new season, a testament to what he has brought to their side.

8. Kieran Read-Is really starting to hit form and is fast becoming one of the 1st on the All Black teamsheet.

9. Johnnie Beattie-Indispensable to Glasgow and Scotland. A superb ball carrier with great pace and forms an integral part of the 'Killer B's' alongside Kelly Brown and John Barclay.

10. Wycliff Palu-Has been out along time with injury but when fit is a big part of the Aussie pack. Very hard to stop when in his stride and a superb tackler.

another10

porterbelly wrote: »

Bonnaire's best position is at blindside, he can cover 8 but he shouldn't be included in this. Picamoles has been found out somewhat in that's he's a bit of a 1 dimensional rumbler and he doesn't deserve to be mentioned along with these great names. Rodney So'olialo is nowhere near what he was.

Best no8's in my opinion at the minute
1. Sergio Parisse- He may have been injured for nearly all of last year but his performance against the Springboks in the 1st of the Italy's summer tests proves that this man is a class apart. A truly special player.

2. Imanol Harinordoquy-Inspirational for both France and Biarritz.

3. Jamie Heaslip-Fast becoming one of the best in the game, consistently excellent for club and country.

4. Chris Masoe-Followers of the top 14 will know what this man is all about. Has transformed Castres from perennial strugglers to title challengers. Magnificent every week, what Graham Henry would give to have him for the World Cup.

5. Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe-No coincedence that Sale Sharks have gone downhill in his absence. Wears his heart on his sleeve and covers every blade of grass, he's got everything.

6. Xavier Rush-An old fashioned thoroughbred who seems to be getting better with age. Another man Graham Henry would love to have on board.

7. Luke Watson-Has given a new dimension to Bath since joining them and has been named captain for the new season, a testament to what he has brought to their side.

8. Kieran Read-Is really starting to hit form and is fast becoming one of the 1st on the All Black teamsheet.

9. Johnnie Beattie-Indispensable to Glasgow and Scotland. A superb ball carrier with great pace and forms an integral part of the 'Killer B's' alongside Kelly Brown and John Barclay.

10. Wycliff Palu-Has been out along time with injury but when fit is a big part of the Aussie pack. Very hard to stop when in his stride and a superb tackler.

Terrifc post, agree with most of what you said exept Id swap Heaslip and Parisse and also JMFL with Masoe.

anonymous_joe

My own take on it would be;

1. Benn Robinson
2.
3. Carl Hayman
4. Ali Williams
5. Victor Matfield
6.
7. McCaw
8. Parisse

9. F Du Preez
10. Dan Carter

11. Habana
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Bowe

15. Francois Steyn.

Not sure that anybody would really stand out at hooker or at blindside. 4 was a problem too. Elsom would probably make it in at 6, but he's not in great form.

Interesting omissions would be; Cooper, Genia, Horne, Cory Jane, Mils Muliaina, Pocock, Brussow, Fourie and De Villiers.

Toga Stroll

1.Tony Woodcock
2.William Servat
3.Nicholas Mass
4.Dane Roussow (If he can stay on the pitch long enough :rolleyes:)
5.Nathan Sharpe/Brad Thorn
6.Richie McCaw
7.David Pockock
8.Jamie Heaslip
9.Will Genia
10.Dan Carter
11.Tommy Bowe
12.Matt Giteau
13.Conrad Smith
14.Joe Rokocoko
15.Mils Muliaina

In the backrow you can switch them round but I wanted both Pockock and McCaw. I'd most likely stick with McCaw at 6 as Pockock is faster.
Individually the centre pairing is excellent but I'm not sure how they would work in a team. Giteau is probably too small to play inside of Smith who is no giant himself. If I had to replace him I'd pick BOD at 12.

Luckycharm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I think you'll find that he has Smith in at 13.

Well then he must have BOD down as the best 12 in the world even though he has never played there

Dougalicous team below

Woodcock
Du Plesis
Hayman
Thorn
Matfield
Ferris
McCaw
Harrinordiquay
Du Preez
Carter
Habanna
O'Driscoll(still has to be there, even if he passed best)
Smith
Syvivatu
Hernandez(i know he plays 10 now but he would be my pick as there's no standout candidate

Ian_K

another10 wrote: »

Parisse isnt as good as people think. Looks good for Italy because he can do what he likes (drop goals) but Id have Heaslip instead of him anyday.

As for the guy who asked if Rocky has ever got man of the match in a tri nations game, he won 3 in the Summer before he came to Leinster.

Cudnt disagree more tbh. imo Parisse is the most complete player of his generation

redroar1942

Luckycharm wrote: »

Well then he must have BOD down as the best 12 in the world even though he has never played there

Dougalicous team below

Woodcock
Du Plesis
Hayman
Thorn
Matfield
Ferris
McCaw
Harrinordiquay
Du Preez
Carter
Habanna
O'Driscoll(still has to be there, even if he passed best)
Smith
Syvivatu
Hernandez(i know he plays 10 now but he would be my pick as there's no standout candidate

Great post !

almighty1

porterbelly wrote: »

Bonnaire's best position is at blindside, he can cover 8 but he shouldn't be included in this. Picamoles has been found out somewhat in that's he's a bit of a 1 dimensional rumbler and he doesn't deserve to be mentioned along with these great names. Rodney So'olialo is nowhere near what he was.

Best no8's in my opinion at the minute
1. Sergio Parisse- He may have been injured for nearly all of last year but his performance against the Springboks in the 1st of the Italy's summer tests proves that this man is a class apart. A truly special player.

2. Imanol Harinordoquy-Inspirational for both France and Biarritz.

3. Jamie Heaslip-Fast becoming one of the best in the game, consistently excellent for club and country.

4. Chris Masoe-Followers of the top 14 will know what this man is all about. Has transformed Castres from perennial strugglers to title challengers. Magnificent every week, what Graham Henry would give to have him for the World Cup.

5. Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe-No coincedence that Sale Sharks have gone downhill in his absence. Wears his heart on his sleeve and covers every blade of grass, he's got everything.

6. Xavier Rush-An old fashioned thoroughbred who seems to be getting better with age. Another man Graham Henry would love to have on board.

7. Luke Watson-Has given a new dimension to Bath since joining them and has been named captain for the new season, a testament to what he has brought to their side.

8. Kieran Read-Is really starting to hit form and is fast becoming one of the 1st on the All Black teamsheet.

9. Johnnie Beattie-Indispensable to Glasgow and Scotland. A superb ball carrier with great pace and forms an integral part of the 'Killer B's' alongside Kelly Brown and John Barclay.

10. Wycliff Palu-Has been out along time with injury but when fit is a big part of the Aussie pack. Very hard to stop when in his stride and a superb tackler.

Spies not even in the worlds top 10 numbers 8s? Oh come on, just a year ago he was being touted as one of the best numbers 8's in the world. Ok he has had an indifferent year internationally but he has been injured for a while.

theKramer

almighty1 wrote: »

Spies not even in the worlds top 10 numbers 8s? Oh come on, just a year ago he was being touted as one of the best numbers 8's in the world. Ok he has had an indifferent year internationally but he has been injured for a while.

I dont think he is tbh. He looks great when the Boks are on top but you see feck all of him when they are under the kosh. Compare that to say Heaslip or Parisse, who are always evident even when their teams arent doing well, especially Parisse.

PhatPiggins

theKramer wrote: »

I dont think he is tbh. He looks great when the Boks are on top but you see feck all of him when they are under the kosh. Compare that to say Heaslip or Parisse, who are always evident even when their teams arent doing well, especially Parisse.

I dont rate Spies that highly and have said it a few times in the past but he's still better then the likes of Watson and Masoe who looked completely out of place at international level.

porterbelly

Neither Watson nor Masoe were given a proper chance internationally. We all know of Watson's problems in the past with his controvrsial comments but he was regarded as an openside by the South African management, in direct competition with Schalk Burger, who remember was world player of the year in 2004. Watson was quality for the Stormers but was never really considered because it might not go down well among fellow players. Anyone who has seen Watson at Bath will realise what a player he his. I'd take him over Pierre Spies anyday.

Chris Masoe has been transformed since he has moved to Castres who ahve played him in his best position at no8. When playing in New Zealand with the Hurricanes the only position he could be accomodated in the lineup was at openside because Jerry Collins at 6 and Rodney So'olialo at 8. Therefore he wasn't recognised as primarily an 8 and therefore never really got a fair crack at the whip. Followers of the Top 14 in France and who have seen alot of Castres play will realise that this man is immense.

PhatPiggins

porterbelly wrote: »

Neither Watson nor Masoe were given a proper chance internationally. We all know of Watson's problems in the past with his controvrsial comments but he was regarded as an openside by the South African management, in direct competition with Schalk Burger, who remember was world player of the year in 2004. Watson was quality for the Stormers but was never really considered because it might not go down well among fellow players. Anyone who has seen Watson at Bath will realise what a player he his. I'd take him over Pierre Spies anyday.

Chris Masoe has been transformed since he has moved to Castres who ahve played him in his best position at no8. When playing in New Zealand with the Hurricanes the only position he could be accomodated in the lineup was at openside because Jerry Collins at 6 and Rodney So'olialo at 8. Therefore he wasn't recognised as primarily an 8 and therefore never really got a fair crack at the whip. Followers of the Top 14 in France and who have seen alot of Castres play will realise that this man is immense.

Another good post but your basing your opinion on club form which doesn't hold much chop for me. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.