Area worst hit by the recession?

liammur

Has to be limerick.

Fewer than 1,000 IDA jobs for limerick city and county since 1997, and thousands of IDA jobs lost. Nothing done since Dell's closure in 2008 has exacberated the situation.

Waterford, and donegal would make the list too.

ninty9er

You wouldn't say that of you saw the shopping centre and retail park car parks in Limerick every weekend.

liammur

I see them, and I also see plenty of vacant places in them too unfortunately.

doc_17

Some people in donegal would tell you that the recession had no impact on donegal because the celtic tiger never arrived in the first place! Fruit of the loom, nena models, unifi et etc were all gone before the tiger truely arrived. People in the Finn valley area would not know what an IDA job was

Hogzy

ninty9er wrote: »

You wouldn't say that of you saw the shopping centre and retail park car parks in Limerick every weekend.

Not EVERYONE lost their job so yes some people will still be going on with their lives as normal.

Cork could be up there by the time Pfizer closes but by the time all the jobs are lost hopefully emplyment will have picked up.
Think the last round of lay offs is 2012 or 2015?

RichardAnd

I think Waterford has been hit pretty badly, from what I've heard. Athlone would be another where something like 40% of men under 25 are unemployed.

Hogzy

RichardAnd wrote: »

I think Waterford has been hit pretty badly, from what I've heard. Athlone would be another where something like 40% of men under 25 are unemployed.

THats because they are either in school or collage. Stupid statistic tbh.:rolleyes:

RichardAnd

Hogzy wrote: »

THats because they are either in school or collage. Stupid statistic tbh.:rolleyes:

Oh, that's news to me. That statistic came from RTE so I guess that's another example of their own brand of "journalism".

Still, I spent 6 months there last summer on contract and the place seemed kind of depressed to me.

Joe1919

This guy is suggesting Co Laois, although the info is a year old. Has anyone more up to date data?

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/05/11/where-in-ireland-has-seen-the-biggest-increase-in-unemployment/

doc_17

I forgot as well to mention the devastating effect the fishing cutbacks had on donegal. I out of EVERY three people eligible to work in donegal is unemployed, although we have criminals from the north signing on en masse so maybe that stat is a little soft.

murphaph

doc_17 wrote: »

Some people in donegal would tell you that the recession had no impact on donegal because the celtic tiger never arrived in the first place! Fruit of the loom, nena models, unifi et etc were all gone before the tiger truely arrived. People in the Finn valley area would not know what an IDA job was

They would if they moved somewhere with the population density to support jobs en masse.

doc_17

murphaph wrote: »

They would if they moved somewhere with the population density to support jobs en masse.

Yeah so then they wouldn't be IN THE FINN VALLEY AREA. Or maybe I should have said "there are no IDA jobs in the Finn Valley" just to make my point crystal clear

johnnyskeleton

Hogzy wrote: »

THats because they are either in school or collage. Stupid statistic tbh.:rolleyes:

Depends on the provenance of the statistics. The live register, for example, excludes people in full time education.

murphaph

doc_17 wrote: »

Yeah so then they wouldn't be IN THE FINN VALLEY AREA. Or maybe I should have said "there are no IDA jobs in the Finn Valley" just to make my point crystal clear

My point was simple: Why should jobs be brought to the FINN VALLEY AREA?

Donegal is simply not a logical place to build factories, no more than the Scottish Highlands are.

liammur

I disagree.

That's the lazy attitude that the government adopted and as a result, dublin has become

overcrowded with dreadful planning
huge money spent on infrastructure, etc
people paying way over the odds for average apartments

whilst most of the country is left to rot.

thebman

I would wager Offaly to be one of the worst effected.

Factories have been shutting down for years with only new jobs being in construction in the town which has obviously collapsed.

liammur

is biffo doing anything for offaly?

Hogzy

liammur wrote: »

is biffo doing anything for offaly?

Is Biffo doing anything for ireland?

murphaph

liammur wrote: »

I disagree.

That's the lazy attitude that the government adopted and as a result, dublin has become

overcrowded with dreadful planning
huge money spent on infrastructure, etc
people paying way over the odds for average apartments

whilst most of the country is left to rot.

Huge Money spent on Infrastructure in Dublin? I must have missed the train from the airport to my gaff last time I flew home. Where is it again? I suppose I could use the tram "network" (2 seperate lines actually, never completed). Are you maybe talking about the port tunnel which was built to get trucks primarily from outside Dublin to be able to reach the port without passing through the city?

Most of the country left to rot?
Lynch and now Shannon tunnels open. Vast quantities of motorway all over Ireland.

Dublin has had dreadful planning imposed on it, no question...you seem to think that because Dublin was not planned well in recent years that it should not be improved..strange.

If you think that the current government has focussed spending on Dublin at the expense of the regions, think again.

ninty9er

liammur wrote: »

Has to be limerick.

Fewer than 1,000 IDA jobs for limerick city and county since 1997, and thousands of IDA jobs lost. Nothing done since Dell's closure in 2008 has exacberated the situation.

If there were less than a thousand created in the first place, how do you make out that there were less than that created. They have to be created first.

You also have to aggregate the effect of the Shannon Free Zone. Thousands of people commute there every day. My dad is one that's been commuting there for 20 odd years from the city, the same way as many thousands of the people made redundant by Dell have no direct impact on the Limerick unemployment figures as many were commuting from Cork, Kerry and Tipperary to work there and in associated companies.

RonMexico

Well in terms of the Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick it has to be the latter that has taken the biggest hit...by far! Limerick City has been absolutely decimated by the recession, the amount of closed businesses in the city is staggering. We all know that Dell has also had a huge impact on this region and it looks like things are progressively getting worse. This problem is also compounded by the idiotic decisions taken by Limerick City Council who have effectively helped drive business out of the city and into the numerous retail parks circling the city. If you want an example of how not to plan/run a city then take a trip to Limerick and see for yourself. As a Lonely Planet guide once said - "It is best viewed in a rear view mirror."

liammur

Most jobs Limerick got were prior to this government eg. Dell in 1991.
FF since 1997 has done nothing for Limerick, most people realise that apart from the extremely limited.

---

Look at the port tunnell, dublin airport T2, the upgrade of the M50, how costly was that? and that's just 3 off the top of my head!

Nolanger

RichardAnd wrote: »

I think Waterford has been hit pretty badly, from what I've heard.

That's because the best and brightest have to leave to go to a proper university and usually never go back

murphaph

liammur wrote: »

Most jobs Limerick got were prior to this government eg. Dell in 1991.
FF since 1997 has done nothing for Limerick, most people realise that apart from the extremely limited.

---

Look at the port tunnell, dublin airport T2, the upgrade of the M50, how costly was that? and that's just 3 off the top of my head!

Port Tunnel is more use to hauliers from outside Dublin than to the ordinary citizens I can assure you! Ordinary Dubs can't afford to use the shagging thing as it's rather expensive you know

As for T2, well, Dublin airport is a piece of strategically important national infrastructure. would you rather Dublin airport was starved of funding so we could build up regional airports that will never be able to function as hubs?

Btw, Limerick (Shannon Airport) had a massive competitive advantage handed to it for decades with the compulsory Shannon stopover, which directly impacted on Dublin's attractiveness as a business location for US firms, yet Limerick STILL couldn't make hay with it.

The M50 is a Dublin Bypass (or was). Would you rather force people from Limerick to drive through Dublin on their way to Belfast etc. just to bite off your nose to spite your face?

Finally: DUBLIN CAN AFFORD IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE. ANY AND ALL INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT IN LIMERICK (M20, M7 SRR, M18, Shannon Tunnel) is built with money from outside Limerick...show some friggin gratitude ffs!

liammur

You are wrong on numerous points.

I've always stated that limerick doesn't need a tunnell, total waste of money. Spend it on upgrading hospitals. I don't think for instance anyone here will argue about having a state of the art children's hospital in dublin and/or elsewhere.

Secondly, the DAA is in total control od shannon airport, this would be like liverpool depending on man utd for cash.

Thirdly, because the government places most IDA jobs in dublin, there should be an onus on the government to spread the wealth or else, give autonomy to the regions.

And this is as silly as i've ever seen, but it made me laugh :

Finally: DUBLIN CAN AFFORD IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE. ANY AND ALL INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT IN LIMERICK (M20, M7 SRR, M18, Shannon Tunnel) is built with money from outside Limerick...show some friggin gratitude ffs!

that's the reverse of people saying, dublin should only pay for the mess created by anglo, aib and boi as they're based in dublin

murphaph

liammur wrote: »

You are wrong on numerous points.

I've always stated that limerick doesn't need a tunnell, total waste of money. Spend it on upgrading hospitals. I don't think for instance anyone here will argue about having a state of the art children's hospital in dublin and/or elsewhere.

Secondly, the DAA is in total control od shannon airport, this would be like liverpool depending on man utd for cash.

Thirdly, because the government places most IDA jobs in dublin, there should be an onus on the government to spread the wealth or else, give autonomy to the regions.

And this is as silly as i've ever seen, but it made me laugh :

Finally: DUBLIN CAN AFFORD IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE. ANY AND ALL INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT IN LIMERICK (M20, M7 SRR, M18, Shannon Tunnel) is built with money from outside Limerick...show some friggin gratitude ffs!

that's the reverse of people saying, dublin should only pay for the mess created by anglo, aib and boi as they're based in dublin

You're straying farther from reality with each post.

The IDA markets Ireland, they actually try really hard to get MNCs to locate in the regions but guess what, they often don't want to!

If Dublin had to foot the entire bill for Anglo etc. but never had to pay a cent to the regions, it would be a win win for the city and the Greater Dublin Region.

As for pumping yet more money into our healthcare system...we already pump in more per capita than many states with FAR SUPERIOR healthcare systems. The problem with our HSE is not a lack of funding, as anyone with any cop on knows.

For the record, I wish Limerick well, just sick to my back teeth of people mouthing off about spending money in Dublin being a "waste".

liammur

Well for the record I also wish every region and person in this state well.

I was in hospital in limerick recently and i can tell you that hospital is really run down and hasn't seen a penny in a long long time.
I'd prefer the money to go in there than the tunnel, and the same applies to dublin and elsewhere.

Talking about dublin paying for other areas is silly, a bit like mayo being entitled to all proceeds from corrib gas fields etc.

As for IDA jobs, the government gives special grants to BMW area, hence galway has atttracted IBM, SAP, Boston Scientific just to name a few. It's easy to do it if they're prepared to do it.

alex73

Worst hit is Donegal. I would say its really Irelands forgotten county. But as far as numbers go.. Dublin is the hardest hit (dublin and the commuter belt)

fontanalis

liammur wrote: »

is biffo doing anything for offaly?

That's not his job.

liammur

as a local td, maybe it is.

doc_17

murphaph wrote: »

My point was simple: Why should jobs be brought to the FINN VALLEY AREA?

Donegal is simply not a logical place to build factories, no more than the Scottish Highlands are.

I get your point and understand where you're coming from. Not being smart here or looking to annoy you but what would you do with donegal and other sparsly populated areas? Just shut them down?

RichardAnd

liammur wrote: »

Well for the record I also wish every region and person in this state well.

I was in hospital in limerick recently and i can tell you that hospital is really run down and hasn't seen a penny in a long long time.
I'd prefer the money to go in there than the tunnel, and the same applies to dublin and elsewhere.

People always say that when state money is spent on infrastructure. I've seen hospitals in Limerick before and even in the boom, some of them were real kips filled with overly paid staff. Maybe if the latter of these was put right, the former might right itself.

liammur

Correct.

A lot of people like murphaph get it badly wrong time and time again:

'As for pumping yet more money into our healthcare system...we already pump in more per capita than many states with FAR SUPERIOR healthcare systems. The problem with our HSE is not a lack of funding, as anyone with any cop on knows'.

Our money is going on wages, middle management and the highest paid consultants in the world. Practically nothing on the hospitals themselves.

Sleepy

You're putting words into murphaph's mouth there liammur...

From my reading of his post and yours, you're both saying the same thing: there's no issue with the current funding, it's just mis-directed to over-paid staff. A decade or two of the staff being paid more reasonably and the savings being spent on capital would probably sort most of the issues with the hospitals...

murphaph

doc_17 wrote: »

I get your point and understand where you're coming from. Not being smart here or looking to annoy you but what would you do with donegal and other sparsly populated areas? Just shut them down?

Of course not. Donegal at one time was a spectacularly beautiful county. Sadly, much of it has been destroyed with bungalow blitz development and holiday homes in totally unsuitable areas of outstanding natural beauty. Donegal itself has destroyed it's own best asset: tourism.

There will likely never be enough jobs in remote places like Donegal for all the people. That is the way it is here in Germany too: people from rural, remote parts of Brandenburg know FULL WELL that when they finish school, it's off to Berlin or the west to find work. Nobody here expects factories to be brought to their towns. They know the critical mass will never develop, so they head to the cities.

doc_17

murphaph wrote: »

Of course not. Donegal at one time was a spectacularly beautiful county. Sadly, much of it has been destroyed with bungalow blitz development and holiday homes in totally unsuitable areas of outstanding natural beauty. Donegal itself has destroyed it's own best asset: tourism.

There will likely never be enough jobs in remote places like Donegal for all the people. That is the way it is here in Germany too: people from rural, remote parts of Brandenburg know FULL WELL that when they finish school, it's off to Berlin or the west to find work. Nobody here expects factories to be brought to their towns. They know the critical mass will never develop, so they head to the cities.

Yeah lots of donegal people make that choice as well. No easy answer. But the government sold the county (and country) out with the fishing quotas. There are spainish vessels fishing a few mile off donegal and the local fishermen are signing on the live register. Doesn't seem right.

And regarding the other lad who says you're wrong all the time I wouldn't agree with that. You usually make well backed up statements that are thought out.

liammur

It would be pretty easy to get companies to relocate to donegal. Just give them an extra incentive over the rest of the country.
Over 20 medical device companies are now in Galway, and they didn't locate there for Salthill I can assure you. They get special grants being in the BMW region.

I would say the Berlin situation is completely different, as most german jobs are more probably german companies?

That is essentially where Ireland is falling down badly, we now have practically no manufacturing of our own, and it would be impossible to start a big domestic company in a region like donegal.

Sleepy

Galway is an urban area with a large population, a univeristy with a fantastic reputation in bio-medical engineering, a third-level institution and a network of support businesses to provide goods and services to a prospective enterprise. It's a 2 hour drive from Dublin airport (from the side of the city the FDI is all based on) and has a regional airport whose runway was extended to cater to corporate jets decades ago at Digital's expense.

Donegal is for the most part sparsely populated, has one third level institution, far less in the way of support services, is a fair trek from Dublin by car and the quickest route involves a border crossing and afaik no airport.

I think it's fairly obvious why someone would choose Galway as a location for investment over Donegal and it's sod all to do with grants or government policy. It's simply down to the logistics of doing business in an urban area versus the logistics of going out of business in a rural one.

liammur

Companies follow money. That's the key rule here.

Few would have thought multi national companies were going to set up in the west of ireland 30 years ago, be it galway or carrick on shannon (where there is a 1,000 IDA jobs in 1 company).

Give them the incentives, and the rule will be tested.

doc_17

liammur wrote: »

It would be pretty easy to get companies to relocate to donegal. Just give them an extra incentive over the rest of the country.
Over 20 medical device companies are now in Galway, and they didn't locate there for Salthill I can assure you. They get special grants being in the BMW region.

I would say the Berlin situation is completely different, as most german jobs are more probably german companies?

That is essentially where Ireland is falling down badly, we now have practically no manufacturing of our own, and it would be impossible to start a big domestic company in a region like donegal.

Donegal is also in the BMW region

liammur

Correct.

Where that BMW incentive was seriously flawed was having Galway in it.

Of course most companies will locate to galway city, rendering the whole thing useless.

Then, limerick is 60 miles down the road, and how can limerick compete with galway with there is extra incentives to go to galway? So another result is limerick has got practically no IDA jobs since 1997.

invinciblePRSTV

What more do you want Liammur? Shannon Airport, Shannon Freezone, IDA incentives, Limerick regeneration project, Mid West task force, Special EU fund for Dell workers, vast quantities of cash spent on the regions road & rail infrastructure.

The mid west has had political patronage lavished upon it for decades and you still want more, more, more!

Want to know the area worst hit by recession? it's frigging Ireland ffs, nearly 450k unemployed in a population of just over 4m. Trying to compartmentalise it on a micro level is pointless tbh, the country is feeling it all over.

liammur wrote: »

Correct.

Where that BMW incentive was seriously flawed was having Galway in it.

Of course most companies will locate to galway city, rendering the whole thing useless.

Gosh it must be useless if company X decides that they'll locate in the one area of the BMW that actually has a decent size population & access to services, population & transport infrastructure, You want all those bio tech companies to be located at the cross roads in ballygobackwards right?:rolleyes:

BeeDI

Dell facility in Limerick is about to be taken over, by a new manufacturing company making knives:cool:

liammur

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

What more do you want Liammur? Shannon Airport, Shannon Freezone, IDA incentives, Limerick regeneration project, Mid West task force, Special EU fund for Dell workers, vast quantities of cash spent on the regions road & rail infrastructure.

The mid west has had political patronage lavished upon it for decades and you still want more, more, more!

Want to know the area worst hit by recession? it's frigging Ireland ffs, nearly 450k unemployed in a population of just over 4m. Trying to compartmentalise it on a micro level is pointless tbh, the country is feeling it all over.



Gosh it must be useless if company X decides that they'll locate in the one area of the BMW that actually has a decent size population & access to services, population & transport infrastructure, You want all those bio tech companies to be located at the cross roads in ballygobackwards right?:rolleyes:

You seem quite defensive.
I don't want regeneration taking place,
and as for this waffle

Shannon Airport, Shannon Freezone, IDA incentives, Limerick regeneration project, Mid West task force, Special EU fund for Dell workers, vast quantities

you must have been reading the letter page in the Sun and got all confused.

munstergirl

Limerick shopping centres may be packed but its only the unemployed going for a wander, you only have to take a look at the cash registers.

Not all of limericks worked in DELL.

Take a walk around dublin, cork, galway, limerick city, you can see which city been effected the most, there is a huge difference.

The amount of suicides which are happening in limerick on a daily basis nobody wants to talk about.

City centre apartments can't sell for 70k due to drug dealers + prostitutes. All been paid for by gov rent allowance.

Lots of newly unemployed limerick people want to work, we have enough benefit scroungers.

Oh we got a tunnel yipee, that brought a few jobs to limerick.

invinciblePRSTV

liammur wrote: »

You seem quite defensive.
I don't want regeneration taking place,
and as for this waffle

Shannon Airport, Shannon Freezone, IDA incentives, Limerick regeneration project, Mid West task force, Special EU fund for Dell workers, vast quantities

you must have been reading the letter page in the Sun and got all confused.

Dismiss me with poor attempts at sarcasm if you like because i expose your parochial viewpoint, but your base argument is that the Government isn't doing enough for the people of Limerick. When pointed out to you what exactly the Government has done for the mid west you ignore it because it shows the baselessness your argument, jog on lad if you can't see the wood for the trees.

Bill2673

(i) All counties have been hit by the recession. The question is about comparisons. There's no point in saying Waterford lost this or Cork lost that, if you ignore the fact that everywhere is losing too. is your county doing worse than all others? Can you back that up with facts please?

(ii) My understanding is that the counties most heavily dependent on construction for employment are the midland border counties.....longford, leitrim, cavan etc. Since this is mostly a construction driven collapse, my guess therefore is that these counties have been affected worse than others. (And I am not from there).

liammur

'what exactly the Government has done for the mid west'

'mid west task force' <--- nothing for anybody, apart from those paid to do it

'special EU fund' <--- Europe's money, but it's in danger of going back to europe because the governent is doing nothing.


Look, just think before you write, or your base arguments will just thrash a thread.

liammur

In my opinion bill, that's exactly what the government need to do. Find out the areas that have been hardest hit and act accordingly.

thebman

Sleepy wrote: »

Galway is an urban area with a large population, a univeristy with a fantastic reputation in bio-medical engineering, a third-level institution and a network of support businesses to provide goods and services to a prospective enterprise. It's a 2 hour drive from Dublin airport (from the side of the city the FDI is all based on) and has a regional airport whose runway was extended to cater to corporate jets decades ago at Digital's expense.

Donegal is for the most part sparsely populated, has one third level institution, far less in the way of support services, is a fair trek from Dublin by car and the quickest route involves a border crossing and afaik no airport.

I think it's fairly obvious why someone would choose Galway as a location for investment over Donegal and it's sod all to do with grants or government policy. It's simply down to the logistics of doing business in an urban area versus the logistics of going out of business in a rural one.

Well another issue is Donegal is on the border where plenty of illegal activity can and has and probably still is going on.

Its not somewhere a major multi-national might want to be associated with if they there is another location down the road with all the above location benefits on top of not having an image of being near a warzone.

It would be interesting to see if other border counties have similar problems attracting investment.

RichardAnd

munstergirl wrote: »

The amount of suicides which are happening in limerick on a daily basis nobody wants to talk about.

This was something I had a conversation with my aunt about recently. I don't have figures but I'd say they are way up in the last two years or so.