No Clips On Fuel Pump!

dr.fuzzenstein

One thing that annoys me every time I drive to the pumps is the fact that the little clips that enable you to put the pump on automatic have been removed.
Here's a marvellous piece of engineering that let you put the nozzle into your tank, engage the clip and simply watch it fill up.
Instead we are all being forced to stand there looking like morons with our dicks in our hands and hoping it fills up before you have to give into the cramp in your forearm.
Well, a few years ago I noticed that one of those extra large paperclips (when bent open) will fit exactly through those little holes in the grip of the nozzle, so you can clip it in again and enjoy the marvels of fully automated fuel dispensation!
When you, like me, drive till the little light comes on and then simply pull in and fill her up, this might be of use to you.
Some people might argue that someone might drive off with the nozzle still in the tank, to which I can only say that A: they'll have to pay for a new pump and won't do it again and B: the moronic behaviour of a very dim few shouldn't be made my problem.
So far no garage has said anything to me and if they did, I would simply go to another garage that is happy to accept my money and doesn't insist on me having forearms like Popeye.

opinion guy

Bit strange holding ur dick whilst you fill up. And maybe if you weren't holding ur dick in your hand so much your hand/arm muscles wouldn't be so worn out as to develop cramp merely by filling petrol in a car.

L1011

They are illegal on petrol pumps in Ireland.

They are sometimes present on diesel pumps, Topaz New Ross and Kilbeggan have them anyway. However a lot of stations find its easier to just remove them on all pumps when taking them off new ones.

dr.fuzzenstein

MYOB wrote: »

They are illegal on petrol pumps in Ireland.

They are sometimes present on diesel pumps, Topaz New Ross and Kilbeggan have them anyway. However a lot of stations find its easier to just remove them on all pumps when taking them off new ones.

Well, I somehow doubt they are illegal.
To me it's just this deep-seated and ingrained desire of the Irish to make everything that little bit harder, more awkward and more difficult than it needs to be.
Like only being able to buy alcohol at certain tills, damn I queued at the wrong till, I can't buy alcohol now, oh no, my plans for binge drinking foiled once again by the brilliance of Irish lawmaking!
It's the same as sending you 30 miles into the wilderness only for the signposts for the little town you've been following to suddenly disappear, the lack of street signs and if those clips are illegal then housenumbers must be as well.
It may go back to the time of the British occupation, make the enemy's life as hard and frustrating as possible.

Stinicker

MYOB wrote: »

They are illegal on petrol pumps in Ireland.

Just as well, knowing the brainiacs here they would go into the shop and let it filling away and before long there is a mini deep water horizon spill on the cards at a filling station. Auto cut out pumps where you select how much fuel to pump and pay by credit card would be handy though.

T-Square

The clips mentioned by the OP automatically shut off when the tank if brimmed.

n0brain3r

I jam the fuel cap in to hold the trigger open works a treat

L1011

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, I somehow doubt they are illegal.

Doubt all you want, you're completely wrong.

They're illegal, I'll dig up the same reference I've had to many times before in a few minutes.

L1011

SI 311/1979

VinnyTGM

Your arms get sore from holding the fuel pump, seriously?

johndaman66

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It may go back to the time of the British occupation, make the enemy's life as hard and frustrating as possible.

I think if such a thing is anywhere next or near your major troubles in life you are having it very easy dr.fuzzenstein and I'd swap my lot with you in a shot! I do agree with you on it being a good thought in going back to British occupation giving the incompetent, fraudulent, parochial style governments we continue to put up with here.

Bandara

1.) Its illegal to have them fitted to pumps.

2.) Not all vehicles cut out automatically when the tank fills, some Saabs particulary are notorious for this.

3.) The main reason they are not on pumps here is because the public forget they have the pumps attached to their car, and go into the shop and pay, come back out, get into their cars and drive away and rip the entire pump out of the ground, cause about 20 grand of damage, cause a huge safety disaster and shut the station down for about 2 days until it can be repaired and approved by the appropriate bodies.

4.) Most newer cars have their fuel caps designed so that they actually fit between the pump handle perfectly thus keeping it pumping when the person lets go (which makes everything above (expect the ripping the pump out of the ground - that still applies) redundant.

MagicSean

If you want to know why they were removed its very simple. A lot of people are idiots. They must be protected from their own stupidity.

dr.fuzzenstein

I wonder sometimes and yes, it's not the biggest problem in the world.
Just wonder how that is in other countries, in Germany I have rarely seen a pump without them.
Does that mean that Germans are so much more intelligent that they can wrap their much more powerful minds around something as hugely complicated as an automatic fuel pump and the Irish are incapable of it?
Somehow I doubt it.
Not so much a question of arm getting sore, but why spend money and time on something that is supposed to be automatic and then disable that feature so we have then to find new ways of making it work again?
I use a paperclip to insert it into the handle of the fuel pump and it works nicely.
And in 20 years of using automatic fuel pumps I have not ONCE seen the pump fail to turn itself off, nor have any of my friends or I have even heard of it happening, so it must be a fairly minor problem.
Of course there will always be morons but I refuse to be punished for their stupidity.
The Irish always believe in punishing the entire population for the mistakes of a few.

Ardennes1944

we do have a way of making it work, squeeze the frickin trigger yoke. has your forearm seriously gotten sore holding a fuel pump? sounds lyk you were just running outta proper arguments and filled it up with crap. a paper clip to hold it? who the hell goes out the door and thinks...oh wait i forgot my giant paper clip!:O cant get my petrol/diesel without it! sad

n0brain3r

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

we do have a way of making it work, squeeze the frickin trigger yoke. has your forearm seriously gotten sore holding a fuel pump? sounds lyk you were just running outta proper arguments and filled it up with crap. a paper clip to hold it? who the hell goes out the door and thinks...oh wait i forgot my giant paper clip!:O cant get my petrol/diesel without it! sad

Try pumping anything over 60 or 70 litres without it and you'll know all about it. In a previous life I was a fuel injection technician (forecourt attendant) you get a petrol Range Rover or 7 series in and you better hope you got something to jam the trigger! Esp on an old pump with clogged filters could take 10 minutes to fill a tank.

Ardennes1944

were talking about today and not in a 'previous life' years ago. never came across an old pump with clogged filters and ive been all over for my young age. it really is just a case of squeeze and pay, no more. in fact, im even gettin a bit annoyed with myself that im even having a debate on such a retarded subject

bladebrew

^^^
what,

i was reading a book recently about truck driving in europe and the fuel tanks could take over 1000 litres of diesel,
i assume they have clips to hold them open? it could easily take 10 minutes to fill them,

and do truck pumps in ireland have clips?

i wouldnt really see the point in needing clips to fill a car, but mine only takes 50 litres so it dosent tire me out that much!

-Corkie-

bladebrew wrote: »

^^^
what,

i was reading a book recently about truck driving in europe and the fuel tanks could take over 1000 litres of diesel,
i assume they have clips to hold them open? it could easily take 10 minutes to fill them,

Newer scanias are 1400 litres from empty... I have a little piece of timber that I shove in above the clip and that does the trick..

n0brain3r

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

were talking about today and not in a 'previous life' years ago. never came across an old pump with clogged filters and ive been all over for my young age. it really is just a case of squeeze and pay, no more. in fact, im even gettin a bit annoyed with myself that im even having a debate on such a retarded subject

I don't think the technology has changed much in the last 10 years tbh. It may be a retarded subject to you but I'm sure anyone who drives anything with a larger than average tank finds it frustrating to see these clips removed. From my experience they seem to be getting rarer as stations/pumps are replaced. I think they outlasted the passing of legislation for a long time.

Ardennes1944

get the clip police on the case!

coolmoose

For those of you who doubted:

SI 311/1979

"44. Subject to any conditions attached to a licence, every hose through which petroleum Class I is dispensed by a self-service pump to the fuel tank of a vehicle shall be equipped with a nozzle so designed, constructed or arranged that—

( a ) no stop or catch on the nozzle is capable of keeping the nozzle valve open to permit delivery of petroleum and to eliminate manual control,

( b ) the nozzle valve cannot be kept open to permit delivery of petroleum other than by manual pressure and closes automatically to prevent delivery of petroleum immediately manual pressure is released,"

L1011

bladebrew wrote: »

and do truck pumps in ireland have clips?

They are allowed, unless someone is insane enough to make a petrol truck...

The legislation specifically bans them on self service petrol pumps, not diesel/ethanol/anything else ever invented. Think LPG is classed as the same as petrol for this purpose though.

n0brain3r

MYOB wrote: »

They are allowed, unless someone is insane enough to make a petrol truck...

The legislation specifically bans them on self service petrol pumps, not diesel/ethanol/anything else ever invented. Think LPG is classed as the same as petrol for this purpose though.

Even so you're hard pressed to find them even on the truck pumps.

dr.fuzzenstein

I'm sure that legislation was passed on the 1st of April and no one remembered to take it out again.
It's more about ever so slightly perverting the system.
Can't copy a DVD? Now you can. BBC i-player not working outside the UK? Now it does. The ECU of a car must not be tampered with, ROTFLMAO, your car beeping at you cause your seatbelt is undone, it doesn't have to be this way.
Of course it's not a big deal, but I'm delighted that people are annoyed at it, some laws (to be found here)
http://www.idiotlaws.com/
just fall into that category. Right now hysteria can be legislated for in Ireland.
If someone suggested to make it illegal to eat fish-based snacks in your car on a Tuesday, it would pass in a flash.
And aren't stupid threads the most fun?

corktina

Hammertime wrote: »

.

2.) Not all vehicles cut out automatically when the tank fills, some Saabs particulary are notorious for this.

.

its not the car that cuts out. The car doesnt do anything, the pump sense the chnage of back pressure asa the last bit of air is expelled. (IMHO)

exaisle

+1 MYOB

The actual chapter and verse is:

43. (1) A stop, catch or similar device shall not be provided on a pump hose nozzle of a petroleum Class I dispensing pump which is designed to keep the nozzle valve open to permit delivery of petroleum without manual pressure unless—


( a ) the pump is operated at all times by an authorised person.


( b ) the nozzle is provided with a suitable and efficient automatic shut-off device to prevent spillage which may result from a splash-back occurrence or obstruction in or overfilling of a fuel tank of a vehicle or container, and the minimum flow-rate to operate the shut-off device does not exceed one-half of the flow-rate for which the retaining latch is set,


( c ) in the event of the nozzle falling out of the filling-pipe of a vehicle, the operating lever of the nozzle valve is automatically released from the retaining latch or device upon contact of the nozzle with the vehicle or the ground,


( d ) the flow of petroleum is stopped immediately in the event of the nozzle falling out of the filling-pipe of a vehicle, and


( e ) suitable means are provided to prevent so far as is practicable the displacement or detachment (other than by manual movement) of the nozzle in or from the filling-pipe of a vehicle during the delivery of petroleum to the fuel tank.

exaisle

@ dr.fuzzenstein - "BBC i-player not working outside the UK? Now it does."

Explain please! :-)

Cookie_Monster

What a stupid whiney complaint

exaisle wrote: »

@ dr.fuzzenstein - "BBC i-player not working outside the UK? Now it does."

Explain please! :-)

set your IP proxy to a UK based one

Pkiernan

coolmoose wrote: »

For those of you who doubted:

SI 311/1979

"44. Subject to any conditions attached to a licence, every hose through which petroleum Class I is dispensed by a self-service pump to the fuel tank of a vehicle shall be equipped with a nozzle so designed, constructed or arranged that—

( a ) no stop or catch on the nozzle is capable of keeping the nozzle valve open to permit delivery of petroleum and to eliminate manual control,

( b ) the nozzle valve cannot be kept open to permit delivery of petroleum other than by manual pressure and closes automatically to prevent delivery of petroleum immediately manual pressure is released,"

Translated into English:

"The Irish government believes that Irish drivers are effing retards, and need to be wrapped in cotton wool from cradle to grave"

In countries where they have them, it allows one to clean the windows etc whilst filling up. Saves a little bit of time.

Now if only we had a pay at the pump option like enlightened countries, we could speed the whole matter up, and do away with drive-offs at the same time.

L1011

Pkiernan wrote: »

Now if only we had a pay at the pump option like enlightened countries, we could speed the whole matter up, and do away with drive-offs at the same time.

Being rolled out at a number of DCC-owned (greatgas/emo) sites but only for diesel at the moment. Again there is a legal requirement for self service "petroleum type 1" pumps to be monitored whilst in use and having to have staff seriously reduces the incentives to put in card pumps.

Tesco had them but never replaced them for chip and pin.

NothingMan

Picture this scenario.

1. You go to a petrol pump you get out of the car.
2. You're wearing nylon clothes so you build up a small static charge walking to the pump.
3. You touch the car to open the tank and that static is discharged.
4. You proceed to fill the car, but put it on a lock so it continues automatically.
5. You go sit in your car to fetch your wallet.
6. You've built up another small static charge.
7. You go back to the pump, however now there are plenty of fumes around the tank and nozzle.
8. The small static charge discharges against the car or nozzle causing a tiny spark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MYchdglGp8

corktina

i dont see she is a nutter...she was actually very brave and went for help having removed the immediate danger

Bonito

Here's a tip. Hold the pump the other way and it's easier on your forearm. That being said, my forearm/hand has never ever gotten tired or sore from filling the car.

MunsterCycling

exaisle wrote: »

+1 MYOB

The actual chapter and verse is:

43. (1) A stop, catch or similar device shall not be provided on a pump hose nozzle of a petroleum Class I dispensing pump which is designed to keep the nozzle valve open to permit delivery of petroleum without manual pressure unless—


( a ) the pump is operated at all times by an authorised person.


( b ) the nozzle is provided with a suitable and efficient automatic shut-off device to prevent spillage which may result from a splash-back occurrence or obstruction in or overfilling of a fuel tank of a vehicle or container, and the minimum flow-rate to operate the shut-off device does not exceed one-half of the flow-rate for which the retaining latch is set,


( c ) in the event of the nozzle falling out of the filling-pipe of a vehicle, the operating lever of the nozzle valve is automatically released from the retaining latch or device upon contact of the nozzle with the vehicle or the ground,


( d ) the flow of petroleum is stopped immediately in the event of the nozzle falling out of the filling-pipe of a vehicle, and


( e ) suitable means are provided to prevent so far as is practicable the displacement or detachment (other than by manual movement) of the nozzle in or from the filling-pipe of a vehicle during the delivery of petroleum to the fuel tank.

Then Section 44 contradicts it, which numscull of a Minister signed this S.I.?



44. Subject to any conditions attached to a licence, every hose through which petroleum Class I is dispensed by a self-service pump to the fuel tank of a vehicle shall be equipped with a nozzle so designed, constructed or arranged that—


( a ) no stop or catch on the nozzle is capable of keeping the nozzle valve open to permit delivery of petroleum and to eliminate manual control,


...

dr.fuzzenstein

Bonito wrote: »

Here's a tip. Hold the pump the other way and it's easier on your forearm. That being said, my forearm/hand has never ever gotten tired or sore from filling the car.

Don't have to, insert clip, leave pump to fill up merrily and check oil, wipe windscreen, throw away rubbish, etc...
The nylon shirt woman, well it's obvious, isn't it?
Ban nylon shirts in petrol stations!
Mobile phones are OK, in a strictly scientific experiment (Brainiac;)), a whole pile of mobile phones where set into a petrol soaked caravan and set ringing for several minutes, no sign of explosion.
Then a guy dressed entirely in man made fibres touched a wire leading to the caravan and explosion.
Conclusion: Nylon shirts a several hundred times more dangerous on a petrol station forecourt than mobile phones!

L1011

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Then Section 44 contradicts it, which numscull of a Minister signed this S.I.?

The SI wrote:

GIVEN under my Official Seal, this 18th day of September, 1979.
GENE FITZGERALD,
Minister for Labour.

I've never heard of him either!

Bandara

Pkiernan wrote: »

Now if only we had a pay at the pump option like enlightened countries, we could speed the whole matter up, and do away with drive-offs at the same time.

The pay at pump option is not in place simply because a forecourt cannot survive on the miniscule margins on fuel in Ireland. And the forecourt model is very very different here than in Europe.

Pay at pump the customer has no need to come into the store and therefore they spend on nothing other than the fuel = out of business.

dr.fuzzenstein

Hammertime wrote: »

The pay at pump option is not in place simply because a forecourt cannot survive on the miniscule margins on fuel in Ireland. And the forecourt model is very very different here than in Europe.

Pay at pump the customer has no need to come into the store and therefore they spend on nothing other than the fuel = out of business.

I think I saw pay at pump at one or another petrol station on the Dock Road in Limmers, also in Germany, but in that case pay at pump only operates out of hours, makes sense.
Once saw a petrol station in Austria, just over the border, where petrol is nearly 20 cent the liter cheaper than in Germany.
HUGE queues, the procedure was insert nozzle, engage clip, walk into shop, pay at register after it had clicked off, walk out, remove nozzle, drive off.
There was a queue all the way out the road and I was in and out in under 10 minutes, Austrian efficiency at work here, everyone knew what they where doing, no one bucked the system, it was relentless in it's pace, absolutely awesome compared to here, people would go out of their way to be awkward, park at the pumps but not buying fuel, blocking the entrance to the shop with their cars, parking across 4 disabled spaces, it is painful for me to watch.
If anywhere else people are encouraged to be as fast and efficient as they can be, in Ireland everyone will do their best to trip each other up and cause delays and frustration to each other and all this is actually enshrined in law.
Just watch a European petrol station for an hour then compare to an Irish forecourt.

coronaextra

If you top up when your tank is only half empty then you will slash your fill time by 50%, and your rist will only be half as sore!

dr.fuzzenstein

coronaextra wrote: »

If you top up when your tank is only half empty then you will slash your fill time by 50%, and your rist will only be half as sore!

Good plan, but I'll be filling up twice as often!:eek:

coronaextra

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Good plan, but I'll be filling up twice as often!:eek:

youve got me there dude!!!

GTE

Oh my blood was boiling today! I havent read the thread fully cause the thread gave me a place to rant about it

Someone came into the station and used the petrol cap to jam the pump on. When I saw him walking around the forecourt, getting in and out of the car and messing on his phone at the same time I stopped the pump and explained to him how to fill a car with fuel outlining that:
1) The chance of fire which I notice have been clearly shown in a video a few posts back
2) The feature which stops the pump when it detects a near full tank to avoid overfilling does not work 100% of times.

He was annoyed but I let him continue with the fill when I saw he was doing it correctly.
EDIT: Also, I want to stress the attitude the odd smattering of people like the one today have when the come into fill up seems to me that they don't realise that I am letting them fill their car up, if they do it wrong which can lead to an unsafe situation Im not obliged to allow them finish up. Ive had people give out to me because I didnt authorise a pump because he had a coke bottle to put petrol into :S

One time when I was on the till a truck used the auto fill clip (on our old pumps) and while he was walking around what I think was 15 euros worth of fuel was spilling out of the tank when the auto stop didnt work. I didn't see it happening until the queue of customers went and someone ran in saying what was going on.

That and people who put fuel into milk containers etc. piss me right off.

Big Nasty

Slightly off topic but another thing I find alarming is the amount of people smoking in / around petrol stations! :eek:

dr.fuzzenstein

bbk wrote: »

Oh my blood was boiling today! I havent read the thread fully cause the thread gave me a place to rant about it

Someone came into the station and used the petrol cap to jam the pump on. When I saw him walking around the forecourt, getting in and out of the car and messing on his phone at the same time I stopped the pump and explained to him how to fill a car with fuel outlining that:
1) The chance of fire which I notice have been clearly shown in a video a few posts back
2) The feature which stops the pump when it detects a near full tank to avoid overfilling does not work 100% of times.

He was annoyed but I let him continue with the fill when I saw he was doing it correctly.

One time when I was on the till a truck used the auto fill clip (on our old pumps) and while he was walking around what I think was 15 euros worth of fuel was spilling out of the tank when the auto stop didnt work. I didn't see it happening until the queue of customers went and someone ran in saying what was going on.

That and people who put fuel into milk containers etc. piss me right off.

In 20 years of filling my various cars (VW, Opel, Merc, Renault, Ford, Mazda, Fiat, Daihatsu and a few more I can't remember) using the automatic on the pumps I have never known it not to stop on time. On petrol or diesel.
I have never heard from any of my friends or family for the auto not to work.
If a garage told me not to use the clip, I'll simply stop, replace the nozzle and go to another garage.
Having said that I keep an eye on the car as it fills, I never walk off and leave it unattended.
I can see how the milk container thing annoys petrol station staff, if I ever need to take fuel away in a container I'd only use a proper petrol can. Petrol can actually dissolve other plastics so the container could rupture and that is never a good thing.
I also don't think a mobile phone will ever cause a fire on a petrol station in a million years, but I leave it in the car just in case...
But nylon jumpers are simply the most dangerous things on earth on the forecourt.:)

GTE

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

In 20 years of filling my various cars (VW, Opel, Merc, Renault, Ford, Mazda, Fiat, Daihatsu and a few more I can't remember) using the automatic on the pumps I have never known it not to stop on time. On petrol or diesel.
I have never heard from any of my friends or family for the auto not to work.

If a garage told me not to use the clip, I'll simply stop, replace the nozzle and go to another garage.

With regards to the autostop never failing in your experience, thats irrelevant since your experience doesnt count for every fill of fuel that takes place in the country. I know thats a very smart ass response to give to you but I cant fathom what the point is you are trying to make aside from arguing that since it never happens to you it never happens to anyone.

The failed auto-stop DID happen at least once in this country last year which could have resulted in bad things that that easily warrants a country wide ban on auto-fill clips.

Your point seems like someone saying in their experience and in the experience of family and friends speeding through country roads never resulted in a dangerous situation but there is a neighbour of mine in a full body cast due to someone speeding on the roads and losing control of their vehicle and crashing into them. Im not saying you speed through our roads but what my point is outlining is that your justification is wrong.

With regards to the second part of the quote to be honest I don't care if we lost business enforcing safety in the station. However you mentioned that if the station staff told you not to use the clip. If the pump has the clip I dont think the station has much grounds to stop punters using them. The station I work in had a very old pump and a set of slightly newer pumps. At some point just as I started working there the clips were removed from the pumps. The new pumps that have been installed last year never came with them. The situation I was talking about was where the person jammed the pump on with the fuel cap.

dr.fuzzenstein

bbk wrote: »

With regards to the autostop never failing in your experience, thats irrelevant since your experience doesnt count for every fill of fuel that takes place in the country. I know thats a very smart ass response to give to you but I cant fathom what the point is you are trying to make aside from arguing that since it never happens to you it never happens to anyone.

The failed auto-stop DID happen at least once in this country last year which could have resulted in bad things that that easily warrants a country wide ban on auto-fill clips.

Your point seems like someone saying in their experience and in the experience of family and friends speeding through country roads never resulted in a dangerous situation but there is a neighbour of mine in a full body cast due to someone speeding on the roads and losing control of their vehicle and crashing into them. Im not saying you speed through our roads but what my point is outlining is that your justification is wrong.

With regards to the second part of the quote to be honest I don't care if we lost business enforcing safety in the station. However you mentioned that if the station staff told you not to use the clip. If the pump has the clip I dont think the station has much grounds to stop punters using them. The station I work in had a very old pump and a set of slightly newer pumps. At some point just as I started working there the clips were removed from the pumps. The new pumps that have been installed last year never came with them. The situation I was talking about was where the person jammed the pump on with the fuel cap.

You can't honestly compare speeding down a country lane with using the auto fill feature on a fuel pump.
Yes I'm sure the cowboys who design these pumps say "let's install an unsafe feature that is guaranteed to fail and cause accidents" and then deliver them without a care.
Also jamming a filler cap into the mechanism isn't great, but the pump will still stop, though I personally wouldn't be fond of doing that.
There seems to be such hysteria in Ireland regards safety, it's a wonder people don't just stay at home in bed under the blankets in case they have a fall when they get up or slip in the shower.
The likelihood of the pump not shutting off is so remote, we would have to ban showers in this country since they cause a huge number of accidents. Likewise stairs.
And as for driving a car, it is positively suicidal, even when driven carefully.
As for the auto stop going wrong, it would have failed even if it was hand held, fuel would still have spilled and I bet that incidents of that nature are so few and far between as to be almost unheard off.
I'm not saying that only I have never seen that feature fail, but any of my friends or family either.
It is simply pointless hysteria at which this country excels.

NothingMan

corktina wrote: »

i dont see she is a nutter...she was actually very brave and went for help having removed the immediate danger

I agree, she was as calm as possible and did well. I didn't name the youtibe video, just knew what I was looking for because I was shown it at a training session when I worked in Shell.

GTE

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You can't honestly compare speeding down a country lane with using the auto fill feature on a fuel pump.
Yes I'm sure the cowboys who design these pumps say "let's install an unsafe feature that is guaranteed to fail and cause accidents" and then deliver them without a care.

Dear lord man read! I did say I was talking about how your justification was wrong. I was directly comparing the justification of doing those things and not the actual results that they can have.
The justification of "sure its never happened to me, so it wont happen to me" is what I am on about.

The old pumps I was talking about were about 10 to 20 years old so it is perfectly within reason that the pump designers didn't know about the dangers. You cant forget it took us a while to realise the effects of asbestos.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Also jamming a filler cap into the mechanism isn't great, but the pump will still stop, though I personally wouldn't be fond of doing that.

The likelihood of the pump not shutting off is so remote.

As for the auto stop going wrong, it would have failed even if it was hand held, fuel would still have spilled and I bet that incidents of that nature are so few and far between as to be almost unheard off.

In your experience the pump will still stop which I have already said doesn't count all the time.

It can fail even if it was hand held but the amount of fuel that would come out before the person realised what was going on would be much less then 10 or so litres.

Fuel spewing out when someone fills by hand happens more regularly then you think as people seem to ignore the first few clicks of the pump and over do it along with the auto stop not working. Those incidents aren't reported or deemed serious considering the amounts of fuel that can spill. Also, if we dont see it I doubt anyone would tell me about it.

Proof of the pudding is that since we have had the clips taken out of the old pumps and taken delivery of the new pumps the emergency stop hasn't had to be used as no one has kept filling by hand so much that 10 litres spews out. May as well say it the normal pump stop is used at least once every couple of weeks to stop the unaware/ignorant people causing problems.

Your points about banning showers and stairs don't make sense. Does have anything to do with constructing a good argument?

dr.fuzzenstein

bbk wrote: »

Fuel spewing out when someone fills by hand happens more regularly then you think as people seem to ignore the first few clicks of the pump and over do it along with the auto stop not working. Those incidents aren't reported or deemed serious considering the amounts of fuel that can spill. Also, if we dont see it I doubt anyone would tell me about it.

Your points about banning showers and stairs don't make sense. Does have anything to do with constructing a good argument?

Now THAT I would consider a risk, people who keep filling their car even though the pump has clicked off a few times. That is something to be concerned about and train people to avoid it happening.
My argument about showers, etc... is the fact that people almost always are concerned about something that poses so little risk as to be negligible and will go to great lengths to prevent an accident that is very unlikely to ever happen (clips on pump), but have absolutely no worry about something that is obviously dangerous such as frequent spillages due to overfilling.

My argument is:
Pull up to pump, insert nozzle, clip it, keep an eye on it, remove nozzle once finished, no problem.
Removing clips, nearly the same as above with added inconvenience and little or no safety gain.
In fact people seem to manage to spill fuel just fine, with or without automatic.
Also (just to be ridiculous) how about person filling the car has a heart attack, his hand cramps up and he falls over, nozzle still in hand. Result: Big spill.
With auto: Guy collapses, pump finishes refuelling, clicks off, safe.
About as likely as the auto failing on a pump, i.e. not very much, but still.
All in all I don't see a clear and decisive safety advantage.

Midnight_EG

So on the auto-stop pumps you have time to go and do your business around the car while it fills yes?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

My argument is:
Pull up to pump, insert nozzle, clip it, keep an eye on it, remove nozzle once finished, no problem.

With your argument, you have to stand there and watch it...waste of time, no?