€10k Mazda Rx-8 v Celica v Hyundai Coupe

Rodgeb

I have about 10k to spend on a used car (2004- 2007) and would like to hear your guys advice.

I'll be test driving RX8's, Celica's and maybe Hyundai Coupe's over the next few weeks and it would be great to know what to look out for...

I love the look of the RX8 however am put off about the reports regarding the reliabity of the car. Are these really something to be wary of?
The last few years I've been driving an old banger of an almera but it seems to go forever...

I mainly drive while commuting to work, anywhere between 30 - 60 mins city driving and from dublin to cork maybe every three weeks.

Fuel economy is not a very big factor as I am fortunate enough to have a fuel card through work.

The Toyota Celica seems to get great reviews and may be a more reliable alternative??

Ive also noticed loads of Hyundai Coupe's on the road. Are they any good? From what I understand they arent as much fun as the rx8 or celica however they seem to be much cheaper.

Is there any other similar model to the above ye think I should check out?

Rodgeb

Rodgeb wrote: »

Fuel economy is not a very big factor as I am fortunate enough to have a fuel card through work.

Would kill for that!

FearDark

Other people may have more insightful or helpful comments to make but mine is this, a Hyundai Coupé is a girls car, and is always going to be a girls car, and those new shape Celicas arent far off either. Man up and get an RX-8 if petrol isnt a factor.

Barr

All nice cars to be fair , very different qualities.

If you can afford the running costs the RX8 would be top of my list .Its the only "true" sports car.

racso1975

If your lookin for that type of car dont box yourself in with just those 3. Test drive as many cars as you can. Regarding the hyundai they depreciate like a b!tch. Not mad about celica and as you said lots of reports the rx is high maintenance and imo fairly dated

Barr

racso1975 wrote: »

If your lookin for that type of car dont box yourself in with just those 3. Test drive as many cars as you can. Regarding the hyundai they depreciate like a b!tch. Not mad about celica and as you said lots of reports the rx is high maintenance and imo fairly dated

I reckon the RX8 is the least dated of the three , hard to believe the Celica came out in 99 and is still a very fresh looking design (especially in white)

CarMuppet

RX-8. The end.




.......enjoy

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'd be definitely going for the RX-8 too!

jaffa20

Rx-8. No doubt in my mind. Celica second. Hyundai coupe never.

Graham_B18C

I'm another for the Mazda!

Vertakill

Erm, all of these cars, stock, aren't exactly the most 'manly' cars you will come across.
The most girly I would say is the Coupe.

Regardless, the highest bhp RX8 p1sses all over the other 2 (and I used to own/love a VVTLi Celica).

Treehouse72

I recently seriously considered an RX8, but in the end very sadly decided against it after doing a tonne of research. What turned me off in the end was:

> Repairing and maintaining them should get more expensive with each passing year as they are being phased out.
> Yeah, reliability...I think this is much less an issue with later RX8's (2006-), but I just don't know if I could handle worrying every time I turned the key whether it would start. Owners will tell you that's 1/1000 drivers with that experience, which is fair enough. But still, that tiny uncertainty I think would bug my personality. You might be different though and have a better tolerance than me.
> It is not really a great car for lots of short city journeys (lots of stop-start) which would be my main use of it. Too much engine being switched on and off.
> Worried about re-sale value v. other cars I could get. I think there is a chance these cars will degrade badly (in all the hidden nooks and crannies) as years go by. Seen a couple of videos suggesting this might be the case. Also, I wonder how much market there will be for an RX8 with any serious mileage on it...at the moment most used ones on the market have no more than 40k miles. Many have far less. What happens when I put 30k of my own on top - will people really want a 70k RX8?
> When I mentioned the RX8 to my dad's mechanic recently (and he's a master craftsman, a man who lives and breaths cars) he kinda made a curled up, disapproving face and mumbled something about spending a fortune on maintenance. This reaction from this guy gave me serious pause.
> I am not a petrolhead, although I love cars, and I think this car is better suited to someone who at very least knows the difference between a gasket and a piston (or should that be rotar?). For guys like that the car would be a dream I reckon.
> I would have liked a post-2006 model as I think that edition fixed a lot of problems from the 2003/4 cars, but after 2005 was just out of my budget.
> Thought there was a possibility I would look like a flash tosser in it - the kind of guy you look at and just hate. Don't really want my car to be that big a statement about me.
> Colour. This might sound silly, but I don't like the 2 most common colours of Irish RX8's: red and silver. I think the silver looks kinds cheap and tinny, and the red just too flash and cheesy. The light blue is nice and I'd have that colour, but for me the Nordic Green, Grey and Dark Blue are by a mile the best colours and show off the car the best. Sadly, these 3 colours are not that common at all. Black is kinda boring. No, couldn't have a red, silver or black one.
> Tax, insurance, petrol, oil. Meh, this stuff isn't that important to me, but the slightly higher than normal pricing on these is a wee bit of the consideration.

I should say that in all my time researching the RX8 I fell more in love with it every day. Watched loads of videos, read the forums, asked advice...and I could still look at and listen to it all day. And you hardly ever see one in Dublin, making it stand out a bit. God, just thinking about it is making me want to go off and look at some pics of it. Bah, maybe I am just trying to talk myself out of it......if anyone wants to put me straight on any of this stuff I think my arm could still be twisted!

MetzgerMeister

I don't know much about the Hyundai or the Celica but I can give you advice on the RX8 as I've owned one for the past 2.5 years.

There's a lot of myths going around about the rotary engine needing to be rebuilt/replaced etc. This is not entirely true. There was a german car company in the 70's called NSU. They built cars with single rotor and twin rotor engines. They didn't test them properly and just put them on the market. The lack of testing led to these engines blowing up.

Mazda have put a LOT of money, time, effort into making the 13B Renesis engine found in the RX8. If you finally do decide to get this, the following points will be of benefit to you:

> Forget about the 192bhp model and go for the 231. If you get the 192 you'll be wishing you didn't. You could also do what I did and get a 250 Jap import. You'll also be wishing you went for the RX8 if you get the Celica or coupe. Remember, the highest powered Celica you can get is the VVTLi 190 bhp. The lowest you can get in the RX8 is the 192 4 port. The 231 and 250 are both 6 port engines.

> Try and go for a late 2005-2007 model. The 2003, 2004 and early 2005's all had crappy starter motors which didn't spin the engine fast enough and led to flooding. I've a 2004 and replaced the starter and it was perfect. Doing this is also an option. Also, a 10K rev zone looks a lot better!

> It's a heavy car on petrol so you're lucky to have the fuel card. Also it does use a bit of oil but not as much as people would have you believe. As long as you keep an eye on it it'll be fine.

> Parts (spark plugs, ignition coils etc.) can be bought from the US from a number of RX8 stores at a fraction of the price of main dealers here e.g. a set of spark plugs from Mazda here would cost €280. From the US, $80 for the exact same plugs.

> As with any car, you should let the engine get to normal operating temperature before revving the nuts off it. Best thing about the rotary engine is that revving it is good for it as it can help clean the carbon build up from the rotors and rotor housings. Also, the noise is addictive!

> There's a LOT of owners clubs out there if you're ever stuck. Servicing is a very expensive thing to get done at a dealer's. Don't let the fact that it's a rotary put you off doing this yourself. It's still an engine with all the usual stuff and is in fact a very easy car to service once you know what you're doing.

Any other questions, just ask!

MetzgerMeister

Treehouse72 wrote: »

I recently seriously considered an RX8, but in the end very sadly decided against it after doing a tonne of research. What turned me off in the end was:

> Repairing and maintaining them should get more expensive with each passing year as they are being phased out.

Not exactly. The fact that they aren't being sold in Ireland due to the new tax system means that RX8s currently registered here have had their resale value left relatively intact.

> Yeah, reliability...I think this is much less an issue with later RX8's (2006-), but I just don't know if I could handle worrying every time I turned the key whether it would start. Owners will tell you that's 1/1000 drivers with that experience, which is fair enough. But still, that tiny uncertainty I think would bug my personality. You might be different though and have a better tolerance than me.

This is due to the starter motor in 2003, 2004 and early 2005 models. If the car has the upgraded starter, there's nothing to worry about as long as the oil is looked after.

> It is not really a great car for lots of short city journeys (lots of stop-start) which would be my main use of it. Too much engine being switched on and off.

Again, if the upgraded starter is installed, it's not a problem as long as the engine gets a good roasting every now and then to keep the carbon down.

> Worried about re-sale value v. other cars I could get. I think there is a chance these cars will degrade badly (in all the hidden nooks and crannies) as years go by. Seen a couple of videos suggesting this might be the case. Also, I wonder how much market there will be for an RX8 with any serious mileage on it...at the moment most used ones on the market have no more than 40k miles. Many have far less. What happens when I put 30k of my own on top - will people really want a 70k RX8?

Answer, yes. If they want one, they'll have to go for one that's already registered like I said.

> When I mentioned the RX8 to my dad's mechanic recently (and he's a master craftsman, a man who lives and breaths cars) he kinda made a curled up, disapproving face and mumbled something about spending a fortune on maintenance. This reaction from this guy gave me serious pause.

To get the car serviced at a dealers, this is true but as I said in a previous post, maintenance parts can be bought from the US at a fraction of the cost and DIYing is a good thing to get into with any car.

> I am not a petrolhead, although I love cars, and I think this car is better suited to someone who at very least knows the difference between a gasket and a piston (or should that be rotar?). For guys like that the car would be a dream I reckon.

Gasket and a piston?! Gaskets are in every engine. A normal engine would have pistons moving up and down. The RX8 has 2 rotors which spin around.

> I would have liked a post-2006 model as I think that edition fixed a lot of problems from the 2003/4 cars, but after 2005 was just out of my budget.

You have a good point here. However the main problem was the starter motor. Also, the 2003/4/5 models have the oil breather pipe linked into the air filter pipe. 2006 onwards have it routed to the maintenance port on the rear rotor housing.

> Thought there was a possibility I would look like a flash tosser in it - the kind of guy you look at and just hate. Don't really want my car to be that big a statement about me.

So you'd buy a car based on what you think other people would think of you and not because you want the car yourself???

> Colour. This might sound silly, but I don't like the 2 most common colours of Irish RX8's: red and silver. I think the silver looks kinds cheap and tinny, and the red just too flash and cheesy. The light blue is nice and I'd have that colour, but for me the Nordic Green, Grey and Dark Blue are by a mile the best colours and show off the car the best. Sadly, these 3 colours are not that common at all. Black is kinda boring. No, couldn't have a red, silver or black one.

The red and black models are usually the higher 231bhp models and the silver is 192bhp. The Nordic green is actually a limited edition "Nemesis" model with cream leather interior.

> Tax, insurance, petrol, oil. Meh, this stuff isn't that important to me, but the slightly higher than normal pricing on these is a wee bit of the consideration.

If you want a performance car, you're gonna have to pay performance car prices for all these

Bodhan

Hyundai is a sort of a girls car, nice and all but not that great to drive.
Celica has a boring interior and a little girly too, not bad to drive though.
RX8 is a mans car, great fun to drive, rev the nuts off it and feel the performance come through the handling. Yes it's a bit hard on fuel and you need to keep an eye on the oil, but I bet you'll be the only one living on your street that owns one.

RX8 is the winner from those three cars.

ShadowHearth

Listen, what batman says lol.

I would go for rx8 aswell. Specially if you got a fuel card. So the worst thing is sorted.

It's lovely car, but you will have to look after it. Make sure you worm it up. Change oil every 3k miles.

There's alot of rumors about rx8, but alot of people forget that it's an rwd performance car. Such cars do need more attention then your average corolla.

Thought if you don't care much about power or individuality then go for celica, it will be easier to look after.

Oh yeah rx8 is 4 door!!! ))

Mr.David

jaffa20 wrote: »

Rx-8. No doubt in my mind. Celica second. Hyundai coupe never.

+1

R8 all the way its the only one I'd be interested in at all.

Nevermind_

RX8 by a country mile, had one for about a year and loved it

mondeo

Rx8, a blind man on a rocking horse could see that...

Tea 1000

RX8 by far. Celica if you don't want to worry about the Rotary maintenance, Hyundai Coupe - no. Take it off your list. On a direct comparison with the Celica the Coupe looses every battle.
Add a 350Z to the mix also. Or maybe a 330Ci.

pert

Celica all the way.

Sure the RX-8 is a great going and looking car, but I've worked on them and know some boy who owns one.

They're not worth the hassle.

-Corkie-

Mazda Mazda Mazda..;)

Rodgeb

OP here.

Thanks all, great advice and tbh exactly what I hoped to hear:D

I think I was feeling the same as Treehouse72 where the heart was saying RX8 but was a bit nervous about it, however I feel more at ease now and if I get anything else I think I'll regret it!

Im going to start test driving a few now over the next few weeks, see what I can get by shopping around a bit.

If anyone has any further tips on what to look out for that would be great!

thirtythirty

Rodgeb wrote: »

OP here.

Thanks all, great advice and tbh exactly what I hoped to hear:D

I think I was feeling the same as Treehouse72 where the heart was saying RX8 but was a bit nervous about it, however I feel more at ease now and if I get anything else I think I'll regret it!

Im going to start test driving a few now over the next few weeks, see what I can get by shopping around a bit.

If anyone has any further tips on what to look out for that would be great!

It's worth asking what type of oil is in it, and asking them to show you a bottle of it.
If it's non-synthetic, you're golden, but if it's been chewing away on synthetic oil for the last 30,000 miles, there may be more wear in the engine than usual - they don't like fake oil!

MetzgerMeister

spottyelephant wrote: »

It's worth asking what type of oil is in it, and asking them to show you a bottle of it.
If it's non-synthetic, you're golden, but if it's been chewing away on synthetic oil for the last 30,000 miles, there may be more wear in the engine than usual - they don't like fake oil!

5W-30 is the one it should be using. Any owner who really does look after their car will have a bottle of it stored somewhere in the car.

Matt Simis

spottyelephant wrote: »

It's worth asking what type of oil is in it, and asking them to show you a bottle of it.
If it's non-synthetic, you're golden, but if it's been chewing away on synthetic oil for the last 30,000 miles, there may be more wear in the engine than usual - they don't like fake oil!

That doesnt sound right, the rest of the world moved on from that mentality years ago.
http://www.rotaryinsider.com/faq-tac40/rx8-synthetic-oil-gap46.htm

But then again, I do see a lot of owners saying otherwise.

muckwarrior

RX8! I have mine a good few months now and still look forward to driving it every single time.

If you're worried about reliability just make sure it has the newer starter and get the engine compression tested if you want to be extra safe. Do your homework and you'll be grand.

ABEasy

Yeah the Mazda is a cut above the rest performance wise, would love one but couldn't live with the petrol bill

If you are looking at a celica make sure you go for the VVTLI, lovely car to drive and looks great

And i'd throw the 350z into the mix aswell, funds permitting

tiocimarla

A hyundai coupe is classified as a hairdressers porsche 911 its for straight women or gay men lol steer clear,,,,RX8 all the way mate, im no mechanic but my girlfriend is a hairdresser and all her friends have 1.

Also I may add the possibility of it being knocked around by a previous hairdresser whilst try to navigate those dreaded parrellel parking spots etc. are higher than any other car lol.

Anan1

tiocimarla wrote: »

A hyundai coupe is classified as a hairdressers porsche 911 its for straight women or gay men lol steer clear,,,,RX8 all the way mate, im no mechanic but my girlfriend is a hairdresser and all her friends have 1.

Also I may add the possibility of it being knocked around by a previous hairdresser whilst try to navigate those dreaded parrellel parking spots etc. are higher than any other car lol.

@OP - You need to ask yourself what you want the car for. If it's for impressing people like the poster above, then the RX8 is better. If you drive very fast then the RX8 is better. If neither of the above applies then the Hyundai Coupé will do all you want while leaving you with a lot of spare cash to enjoy life's other pleasures. Remember, this car is for you.:)

bugs

Further stress the need to get a compression test on any RX8 you are intending on purchasing. It can highlight any current or future engine problems that a test drive probably won't.

That said, picked one up a few weeks ago after searching for a very long time for the right one. At the current market price they're fantastic, you end up with a proper looking sportscar with excellent interior and a silky smooth engine.

cpoh1

Anan1 wrote: »

@OP - You need to ask yourself what you want the car for. If it's for impressing people like the poster above, then the RX8 is better. If you drive very fast then the RX8 is better. If neither of the above applies then the Hyundai Coupé will do all you want while leaving you with a lot of spare cash to enjoy life's other pleasures. Remember, this car is for you.:)

Most sensible post in the thread by far.

OP if you have zero interest in cars from a mechanical point of view stay away from the rx8. They do require babysitting and you will always be on your toes with one keeping an eye on it constantly. Oil, warming her up fully, short journeys - the stuff you take for granted in everyday cars. Even with the newer starter they can still flood if you stop it after starting it cold. That said they are a rewarding drive if you can live with the fuel consumption.

I would be considering an Audi TT, stunning looking cars, more reliable in the tradional sense than an Rx8 and will have plenty of poke for what you are looking for in a road car coming from a run of the mill saloon. The 1.8T VAG engine is a cracker and the interior of the TT is one of the best around for any money. It has the looks and once kept well decent reliability (based on the golf chassis so lots of suspension parts compatible and the 1.8T engine is in loads of cars) wont be an issue. Residuals will be better than the rx8 too.

Viper_JB

cpoh1 wrote: »

I would be considering an Audi TT, stunning looking cars, more reliable in the tradional sense than an Rx8 and will have plenty of poke for what you are looking for in a road car coming from a run of the mill saloon. The 1.8T VAG engine is a cracker and the interior of the TT is one of the best around for any money. It has the looks and once kept well decent reliability (based on the golf chassis so lots of suspension parts compatible and the 1.8T engine is in loads of cars) wont be an issue. Residuals will be better than the rx8 too.

I'd agree with the TT but wouldn't buy a pre 06 one and you won't getta post 06 one for less then 18,000ish. Pre 06 and I find the ride to be bone shatteringly uncomfortable, but that's personal prefference - I own an RX8 so slightly biased, but what may be worth a look, if you want a real drivers car would be a MX5 - bit hair dressery but get it on a nice road on a nice day and you'd probably not want to be in anything else, very fun car.

PS. Reguardless of what you decide, have a test drive in a RX8 before you decide it's not worth it, might change how you feel about putting having to do a bit more maintainence on your car.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

owned a 2004 RX-8 from 2005-2005, nothing but trouble. Flooding all the time (and no I didnt do short runs), battery problems, ground clearance problems, starter motor problems. Its also not as fast as the BHP would suggest the lack of torque means you have to drive around like a spa at high revs to have any acceleration potential. Depreciates like bank shares, fuel consumption is shocking for such car around town and the fuel tank is small.

Very good stereo, looks good, tyres are cheap enough. Lost 15k on that car and was glad to be rid of it. Get a e46 M3 for that sort of money.

Freddiestar

I'm researching this car and have found a nice black 04 with 44k for €10,950.
I was all set to buy it this Saturday but am thrown by differing opinions on this thread re: reliability.

Going for another test drive on Saturday and based on this thread I will ask about the starter motor and also a compression test.
Petrol & oil costs are worth paying for this beautiful car but..... should someone who doesn't know about engines apart from oil/water checks buy one and expect to be happy with it?
Also there was a hole in the sidewall of the tyre which he plugged, from what I've read this is a big no no and these tyres are around €200 a pop.

Coils are done,serviced,NCT'd 2 years....stunning looking car, but...too many buts, HELP!

muckwarrior

Is that 44k in kilometers? If not then €11k is at the very top of the price range for an 04. If the coils and starter have been done then the only other major worry would be compression. If you're planning on actually giving the guy close to that price then he should have no problems paying €100 odd to get it compression tested for you.

Also, when you're test driving don't just give it a 5 min run around the block. Drive it for long enough to get it hot, and make sure you go right through the rev range. Hesitance at high revs can be a sign of a bad cat. Another thing is, after the test drive, turn it off and leave it for about 5 minutes and then start it again. If it takes significantly longer to start than when cold this can be a sign of poor compression.

Oh and if you do agree on a price then deduct €200 for a new tyre

Treehouse72

Freddiestar wrote: »

.should someone who doesn't know about engines apart from oil/water checks buy one and expect to be happy with it?

Just my opinion as a risk-averse motorist, but the fact I'm not into the technology of motoring was one of the things that persuaded me to give up my interest in the car. My problem is that I wouldn't notice slight changes in the car's performance or recognise strange sounds from the engine in the way a car nerd would. I also wouldn't trust myself to do minor maintenance work like replacing coils and sparks as many RX-8 owners do to cut down on costs. So while I would trust myself to drive it properly (no cold shut offs, correctly revving before turning it off, keeping it oiled etc), I am just too concerned about it becoming a money pit with all the emotional upset of and never being 100% confident in it.

If money was no object though I'd have 7 of them in different colours, one for every day of the week.

Shamo

I've a 03 RX8 228bhp for about a year, always look forward to driving it in the morning and going home.

Freddiestar - The fact the coils are done is good, as he/she obviously knew to get them done. I did the coils, spark plugs and coil cables myself when I got the car as I didn't want to give Mazda ridiculous money for the job. Make sure it's the 228bhp model too

The starter motor's are weak on 03 and 04s (not sure about 05), meaning it ticks over longer sometimes when starting. I've never had a problem with it flooding or any engine issues. You can get it upgraded as mentioned before but i've not felt the need to do it yet.

irishrotary.com has great information on them if you're worried about anything. The admin also owns a 03 rx8.

I get tyres from camskill - cost me €450 for a set of Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta (excellent reviews). Don't need to pay the prices they charge locally.

Vertakill

I think the OP has enough money to spend on something better*.
It's mad to be thinking of a Hyundai Coupe when you have 10k to spend.

The thing you should be wary of is that, while you have 10k to spend on a car, you have to compare the cost of running the cars you've mentioned.

The RX8, regardless of anything anyone is going to say here, will nearly always cost you more in the long run (unless you buy a banger of a Celica/Coupe). There is no debate here.

Both the Celica and the Coupe will usually be cheaper in maintenance/running costs.
Throw the S2000 into the mix and you've got another great, fast, reliable and cheap to run car.

But if you've taken all that into consideration, and it's not a problem, then you should open yourself up for other choices such as the 350Z or the e46 M3.

There's some great cars for that kind of money for sale these days!

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1437271


* My opinion of something better may be different than RX8 owners' opinions!

galwaytt

Viper_JB wrote: »

I'd agree with the TT but wouldn't buy a pre 06 one and you won't getta post 06 one for less then 18,000ish. .......if you want a real drivers car would be a MX5 - bit hair dressery but get it on a nice road on a nice day and you'd probably not want to be in anything else, very fun car.

Well, I'd be thinking the opposite - having had 2 TT's, I can't see any reason for buying, say, an 05 car, when it's identical to a 00 one. So buy one condition only, forget the reg plate, and pocket the difference. You'd get a fantastic TT for 7.5k, and as someone has mentioned, it has the interior everyone else aspires to..........as for the MX-5, hey, I still have mine, and I'm no hairdresser !! Brilliant car, and can be bought very, very cheaply these days.

Vertakill wrote: »

... then you should open yourself up for other choices such as the 350Z or the e46 M3.

...I could be completely wrong, but I suspect OP isn't interested in a big tax bill, hence the 1.6/1.8 tax bracket size he's looking at.....

Vertakill

galwaytt wrote: »

...I could be completely wrong, but I suspect OP isn't interested in a big tax bill, hence the 1.6/1.8 tax bracket size he's looking at.....

You could be dead right. Maybe the OP will clarify that.

I try to look at the tax rates as optimistically *gulp* as I can, but also comparatively rather than thinking; "Over 3ltr, €1,566, omygosh!".
So, it's about €1000 difference between the RX8 and the Z/M3 for a years tax.

If the OP doesn't abide by a few the RX8 cardinal rules, then he could be creeping close to that in bills! :P

I can't attest for the M3's reliability or the Coupe, but the Celica and Z are very reliable. My knowledge of RX8 reliability is anecdotal, but I don't think it's down to being unlucky that everyone I've talked to with one has had reliability concerns.

Tea 1000

I'd imagine any E46 M3 you'd pick up for 10k would be about as reliable as a 1970's Lada!

Viper_JB

galwaytt wrote: »

Well, I'd be thinking the opposite - having had 2 TT's, I can't see any reason for buying, say, an 05 car, when it's identical to a 00 one.

I was saying that you'd wanna buy after 06 when they released the TFSI model and done a complete overhaul of the design, it's the only TT I'd spend money on, as it made the old one look really really old and it's so much more comfortable.