Tekken

Sairus

I hate Tekken. Always have, and probably always will.
However, since so many people play it I'm assuming there's some good to the game and finally picked up a copy of Tekken 6. (The recent SFxT trailer had nothing to do with this sudden impulse purchase :pac:)
I've gone through Arcade once and a few areas in the scenario mode, but the gameplay still really bugs me. Everything feels clunky and unresponsive. Also, in Street Fighter, if I hit medium kick at any time I know a medium kick is going to come out (with the exception of some very specific target combos). In Tekken, if I hit Right Kick at the start of a combo, it'll do something completely different than if I hit it in the middle of a combo. This stuff makes me feel totally disconnected from the fight.

I know Ireland is very Street Fighter centric, but does anyone play much Tekken these days? What do y'all think of 6 compared to 5 and DR? Who do you main? Yadda yadda, usual generic game thread. Discuss!

Retr0gamer

The game was a parody of Virtua Fighter I feel. Namco couldn't match VF on gameplay so tried to beat them with crazy. The series became popular by accident when Sega botched the VF conversion and Namco released an arcade perfect Tekken on the PS1. By the time the infinitely superior VF2 went toe to toe with Tekken 2, well it was already too late.

Owwmykneecap

VF 4 and 5 are a million billion times better than tek 5 and 6

Doctor DooM

I always preferred VF to Tekken too.

Owwmykneecap

Right that's settled it like a traveller with a new semi-detached, VF5 tomorrow XGC.

Doctor DooM

Where are all the Tekken fans though?

Seriously?

Retr0gamer

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Where are all the Tekken fans though?

Seriously?

Uncultured louts.

the whole year inn

nothing wrong with a bottle of bucky .

Havent played tekken in ages,used to always play it,could never get into vf.

On a side note i used to kick ass wit lei

Doctor DooM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Uncultured louts.

Least they don't dress up as school girls.

Not a request to post that picture again!

Sagat06

I love how retrogamer always comes back when the opportunity to give out about tekken comes up

Azza

Judging by how those Tekken players dress Chunkis would fit right in.

As for Retr0gamer, if you want to get a response from him you can do any of the following,

Bash Tekken.
Claim Halo is one of the best FPS games of all time.
Claim Final Fantasy VII is the best Final Fantasy.
Claim Bioshock is better than System Shock 2.
Claim Metal Gear Solid 4 is the best Metal Gear Solid.

Anyone of them should get him started!

Anyway back on Tekken. I dabbled with the first few games. Never got into them in depth but they seemed fun enough as a casual player. I used Paul because his hair is superior to Guiles (apparently he was killed off in the last Tekken game!!!). Never played VF series for more than a few minutes, so I can't compare. For whatever reason 3D fighters don't click with me like 2D fighters do, I can't explain why its just not a game that grabbed me like Street Fighter does. Also no Psycho Power = fail.

K.O.Kiki

I'm actually interested in re-learning Tekken 6 so that I have an edge when TxSF comes out

I learned lots of combos (and only combos) in T3, skipped TT & T4 cos I was poor, then got mad into Tekken 5 and Dark Resurrection.

The one criticism of Tekken I dislike is when people find it "clunky" -- I disagree.
I would say the timing is more staccato, in that your movement is full of fast-paced back-and-forth, utilising the cancel system (backdash~step~dash~step~crouchdash etc); followed by quick pokes or big combo starters, leading into sometimes-lengthy air/wall combos.
Also please remember that 3D fighters are *FULL* of string combos. And yet, I find remembering Ibuki's chains harder than knowing Bryan's full movelist.

raze

Sairus wrote: »

In Tekken, if I hit Right Kick at the start of a combo, it'll do something completely different than if I hit it in the middle of a combo. This stuff makes me feel totally disconnected from the fight.

That's something I've always liked about Tekken. With SF, six buttons gives you six normals at 5. But I've always remembered that Tekken as having 10 hit combos from a standing start, and you can input the first four or five buttons of the sequence then just do something else. I'm a total scrub at fighting games, never win just look for games that I can play with mates - but scrub v scrub, Tekken matches always feel more diverse.

Also, the control system felt more tailored to each character, you could get a feel for them being left or right-handed because of the movelist, the execution makes more sense to me than, e.g. reverse DP kick for Ibuki to do that forward jump stomp thing, for me that move is crowbarred onto a random input pattern because both of the quarter circles AND forward DP were already taken with other specials. In Tekken that would have been something more like right kick, right kick, left kick, left kick like Lei's weird scrabbly shin kick.

I know that reads like nonsense, but because I am used to Tekken execution, it really feels more intuitive.

Of course, Tekken is a ruined series:
- netcode was appalling at launch, unimproved after it was 'patched'
- matches are far from diverse: turtle, launcher, juggle, rinse, repeat
- scenario mode - nobody wants this, dev time on it was misspent
- bosses Jinpachi and Azazel, total nonsense
- destructible floors. DoA did this, and Soul Calibur, but it's a pretty useless mechanic. Why not put a VF ring out system in instead?
- rage. It doesn't really effect how a round is going. If they wanted a new mechanic BlazBlue's Guard Libra and Barrier Burst were much more interesting.

But, for the myriad of problems with it, I like it a hell of a lot more than the Street Fighter series - though it's apples/oranges. Don't know whether it's the Mishima characters being more interesting than SF's shotos or whether it's character's stance changes, or even though I can't stand juggles and refuse to learn to do it (seriously, why not just macro that crap?) I still like that a normal can connect if it's on target, whatever the opponent's state. And characters sometimes change over the series, e.g. Jin Tekken 3 v Jin Tekken 4, or how backgrounds would sometimes matter (fighting on stairs in Tekken 4 mids could become lows). Also, for me fireballs are boring, as are charge characters, and in Tekken most characters can't just jump higher than head height - they might be a space ninja, and use a sword for a helicopter, but they can occasionally obey some physical limitations.

Alas, for me VF for 3d, BB for 2d.

Retr0gamer

It's by far and away the worst fighting game for spectators. Remember watching a tournament stream of it and there was a separate video window open ofthe guys playing hungry hingry hippos during the Tekken tournament and it was much more interesting. After the Tekken tournament was the Tatsunoko tournament which was so much more fun to watch.

Sisko

raze wrote: »

Also, for me fireballs are boring, as are charge characters, and in Tekken most characters can't just jump higher than head height - they might be a space ninja, and use a sword for a helicopter, but they can occasionally obey some physical limitations.

Alas, for me VF for 3d, BB for 2d.

Actually this is my biggest gripe with tekken in terms of visual appeal.

Whenever I look at tekken I see this, a guy floating in the air while another guy punches him in the leg/crotch and this punch keeps the guy floating in the air.

It just looks sooooo terrible. And yet some tekken players come out with stuff about it being more realistic etc etc.

I did really love tekken 3 for awhile though.

I never played VF but I played a 3d fighter on the PC called kwonho and enjoyed that for a time.


But fair enough you like what you like.

Tekken v streetfighter is gonna be pretty crazy.

raze

Sisko wrote: »

Actually this is my biggest gripe with tekken in terms of visual appeal.

Whenever I look at tekken I see this, a guy floating in the air while another guy punches him in the leg/crotch and this punch keeps the guy floating in the air.

It just looks sooooo terrible. And yet some tekken players come out with stuff about it being more realistic etc etc.

I totally agree. I like that you still hit someone when they're falling, I hate that you can keep them from falling because you're jabbing their bloomin' ankles.

Sometimes I glance at the Tekken 6 box and think 'maybe one more chance.' But the juggles, they're the reason I haven't put it in the machine in months.

BanjoB

I really loved the first few tekken games but when alpha grabbed my interest again there was no contest. As said before. Kicking and punching some crazy hitboxes keeping someone floating in the air was as far from street fighter as I could put up with.

They had the first irish fighting character in Nina though. I always thought that was cool.

K.O.Kiki

Juggles look dumb in any game, and yet we still play them.

They're a GAME element. Come on!

GorySnake

I love the Tekken series, from a casual perspective (Story Mode, all that crap) and a competitive perspective (Less so than 2D fighters however). Have been playing Tekken games since T3, although T4 is where I really began to get interested in the series (despite it being the most hated of the series by the Tekken Community) and I spent countless hours playing T5. Missed Tekken Tag though.

I played T6 in Quirkey's until the console release, which temporarily killed my interest in the game for its poor online. Although I played one the Tekken lads and Joe a few times which was fun and with TxSF on the way, my competitive interest in the series may come back.

Everyone who doesn't play Tekken, and plenty who do, complain of how boring it is to watch. It is. It's basically watching an entire game of footsies, with the most exciting thing happening being a juggle into wall combo, no FADC - Ultra, or "Yomi" DP's.

A common misconception of the Tekken games is that it's all about juggles. That's like saying Street Fighter is all about combo's into Ultra/Super/whatever. It's just a part of the overall game. All launchers (to the best of my knowledge) are at least jab punishable, everytime you throw out at launcher and it gets blocked, you're going to eat damage. The game is not just based around juggles. You've got to have an understanding of spacing, high/low mixups, baiting, punishing etc.

Also the idea of juggles being easy/mindless is wrong. Some characters juggles have difficult stance changes mid combo (Law), some have just frame enders (Paul Phoenix) and some just have enders that are tricky to time (Bryan Fury imo). Not only that, but what you do after the launch is important, you have to think on your feet and choose quickly what option you're going to follow up with. Do you go for the simple ender for guaranteed damage, do you pass on the bigger damage option and go for a wall carry to attempt a wall combo or just for positioning, do you bound early in the combo for extra distance to the wall, do you bound late for extra damage at the wall or forget all those options, and instead bound your opponent and setup your okizeme, leading to a whole other list of options.

Im quite surprised the series has such a bad rep, I was under the impression it was quite a well liked series. Although maybe that's just a casual perspective.

Bob is the best character ever.

Doctor DooM

You raise an interesting point there Gory.

Before I got back into fighting games seriously from a casual perspective it seemed way more people preferred Tekken to SF.

They all seem to have vanished now.

chopperbyrne

You're right on that one Doom. Tekken (and every 3D fighter) is far more fun for casual/new players to play than 2D fighters because the control scheme is so intuitive and there are so many string combos, that even pressing a few random buttons in a row can get you a cool looking combo.

Now in high level play, most of these string combos are probably useless and highly punishable, but casual players at least feel like they're doing something.

Casual players playing Street Fighter would very rarely pull off anything cool by hitting a few random buttons in a row.

The main reason we don't have competitive Tekken/3D players is because the jump from casual to serious is so high that it just puts people off.

It's far easier to pick up and play Tekken, but it's far easier to level up in Street Fighter.

I'll probably try one more time to get the Tekken scene going again, but I think it might just be a lost cause at this stage.

Doctor DooM

Lol.


That makes Tekken players the drummers of the FG world

Ske_ch

I think the series is fantastic, though I do have to agree that some of the elements in 6 are a bit too much, like the collapsing floor and rage still though, I always loved it, I have tekken 3 through to 6 with DR and tag aswell, and I'm always straight on it when there's a new one, it may be boring to watch when it's just the same old juggling and wall crap, but I think it's great when you have a few friends together just to have a laugh

Sairus

Ske_ch wrote: »

I think the series is fantastic, though I do have to agree that some of the elements in 6 are a bit too much, like the collapsing floor and rage

When I first saw Rage in the arcade I thought it was a pretty clever mechanic. It makes the match a little more exciting to watch if one player goes into Rage mode and starts pummeling.
After actually using it on the console I hate it.
Getting rewarded for being almost killed doesn't sit right with me (yes, SF has Ultras, but at least that's a single move - and even then I think Ultras are too strong). Everyone is fairly **** at Tekken in my house, but whenever someone drops into Rage they have a tendancy to utterly mop the floor with the opponent. One decent combo string can deal half damage.

Kirby

To be fair, tactics come into play regarding rage. People often stop their combo's before rage hits......and then initiate another one that will kill the opponent taking rage out of the equation. I don't play the game, but I saw that happen quite a bit in the Evo stream..

K.O.Kiki

I watched a lot of matches lately, and most of the time the player in Rage got killed fairly quickly after getting it (usually with a quick low poke).

Scavenger XIII

That's the other factor, people naturally want to go all out offense knowing that one CH or juggle starter will bring the round back... and forget to watch their shins.

As for the series in general, I still play it off and on. It certainly has it's share of flaws but the child in me still thinks its awesome to be a crazy guy with an animal mask wrasslin' people.

I'd consider DR the height of the series, both iterations of T6 just seem to lack polish. Probably the influence of the money men at Bandai or something, noticed a considerable drop in the quality of Namcos output around the time of the merger/takeover/whatever.

mr_kyle

There were guys from the South who posted up on Tekken Zaibatsu. They chatted about meet ups, even mentioning the T6BR cab in the Odyssey. One of them even called himself the Irish champ of Tekken. I had hoped Tekken might have been a "hidden scene" with you gents. Although I think it should not have stopped at just one tournament just because it didn't get as many as SFIV =(.

Doctor DooM

mr_kyle wrote: »

There were guys from the South who posted up on Tekken Zaibatsu. They chatted about meet ups, even mentioning the T6BR cab in the Odyssey. One of them even called himself the Irish champ of Tekken. I had hoped Tekken might have been a "hidden scene" with you gents. Although I think it should not have stopped at just one tournament just because it didn't get as many as SFIV =(.

That's what we said to them.


I'd like nothing more than for Tekken to take off but lets face it other than offering my modly support and maybe recording fights there's not much I can do, I just don't get 3d fighting games in the same way I do 2D. I'm never going to put as much (of my ever decreasing) time into them.

Someone who does love them needs to man up and make it work.

LOL, Irish Champ of Tekken? I'd say Simon might have something to say about that.

Orim

They are still around but there is some issues. There's a couple of tekken who have gotten involved with us and will come into XGC to play games. But there's also a load of players who are the "best" and only play amongst themselves.

Doctor DooM

Orim wrote: »

They are still around but there is some issues. There's a couple of tekken who have gotten involved with us and will come into XGC to play games. But there's also a load of players who are the "best" and only play amongst themselves.

uuuh... that's a bit silly.

do they not want to grow their scene?

Just last night azza was effectively giving me hints on beating himself.

chopperbyrne

mr_kyle wrote: »

There were guys from the South who posted up on Tekken Zaibatsu. They chatted about meet ups, even mentioning the T6BR cab in the Odyssey. One of them even called himself the Irish champ of Tekken. I had hoped Tekken might have been a "hidden scene" with you gents. Although I think it should not have stopped at just one tournament just because it didn't get as many as SFIV =(.

I helped run a T6 tournament in XGC that was organised by a guy named Mantys (don't know his real name) who generally only posts on tekkenzaibatsu.

He basically started the thread here and never returned to it. He very rarely updated the thread on zaibatsu either. It wasn't even a new thread, just a really old one from when T5 was being released. He seemed to think he had twenty people confirmed.

On the day we had eleven I think and I convinced Kiki (I think) to play to make it even numbers. About half of the people found out about it through the thread here on boards.

The tournament ran well and everybody seemed to enjoy it and seemed interested in another.

A month or so later Mantys decides to run another tournament. He reused the same thread on boards and zaibatsu. This time I would not be helping him run it. He seemed to be confirming the attendance of pretty much anyone who posted in either thread.

Again, he expected twenty, but on the day got three. He then gave up on trying to run tournaments.

I'm still convinced we could get a proper Tekken tournie scene started if the person running it would actually put a bit more effort in.

It also doesn't help that the better Tekken players in Dublin decided that some of the people who were regulars in XGC weren't good enough for them and just started having exclusive, invite only sessions in one of their houses. (The self proclaimed champ I believe.)

For the last DoC we only added Tekken to once again try kick-start the Tekken scene and I posted everything up on zaibatsu, but none of them turned up.

Like I said, I'll probably try once more, but I'm not too motivated in regards to Tekken comps right now.

UberPrinny_Baal

In my (totally unfounded and unresearched opinion) a lot of people got into Tekken when the majority of the gamer population was the more casual Playstation 1 owners.

I can remember in those days decent 2D fighters being marked down in reviews for sticking with "a dead style, being too lazy to make the jump to 3D", which is also when we saw Street Fighter go through it's "EX" phase.

Tekken probably picked up a pretty healthy fanbase in that time.

Once the novelty of 3D wore off though, the casuals went elsewhere, and Tekken was just left with it's hardcore fans.

Both of them post on this board.

K.O.Kiki

Basically, Tekken scene is dying like the old Soulcalibur scene.

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Basically, Tekken scene is dying like the old Soulcalibur scene.

Can we do anything about that?

Should we even?

Orim

There's not much we can do.

I'll throw it into DoC every so often, Chopper said he might run another tournament but beyond running the occasional tournament those of us that don't particularly like 3D fighters can't do much.

I suppose that the people that enjoy the games could practise more, try to level up but when the established players won't come out, there seems to be little point in them doing that.

Sisko

We're doing everything we can, its up to the people who actually like tekken now.

mr_kyle

Doctor DooM wrote: »

LOL, Irish Champ of Tekken? I'd say Simon might have something to say about that.

Simon wants a crack at him. I'd like to see it happen. Hence trying to find out if they ever re-appeared.

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Again, he expected twenty, but on the day got three. He then gave up on trying to run tournaments.

It is a tough break, but no reason to stop imo.

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It also doesn't help that the better Tekken players in Dublin decided that some of the people who were regulars in XGC weren't good enough for them and just started having exclusive, invite only sessions in one of their houses. (The self proclaimed champ I believe.)

Oh dear, if that is the case; it reeks of elitism =/

chopperbyrne wrote: »

For the last DoC we only added Tekken to once again try kick-start the Tekken scene and I posted everything up on zaibatsu, but none of them turned up.

Like I said, I'll probably try once more, but I'm not too motivated in regards to Tekken comps right now.

Run it in that guys house lol. Seriously though, no local scene is only there own loss

JohnMc1

Azza wrote: »

. I used Paul because his hair is superior to Guiles (apparently he was killed off in the last Tekken game!!!).

He [and Law] either dies or him and Law screw-up a fixed fight between the two of them. Its pretty sad how they have treated him in recent. He went from being the most powerful Non-Mishima character to Dan level jokce character.

Paul has been my main since the first. Maybe its the fact I did Judo as well. He always seemed like a Ken/Guile hybrid to me.

GorySnake

I'd say they'll go with neither ending. They did that with Yoshi/Bryan.

Yoshimitsu Tekken 5 ending - He kills Bryan
Bryan Fury Tekken 5 ending - He kills Yoshimitsu

Both are in Tekken 6

JohnMc1

GorySnake wrote: »

I'd say they'll go with neither ending. They did that with Yoshi/Bryan.

Yoshimitsu Tekken 5 ending - He kills Bryan
Bryan Fury Tekken 5 ending - He kills Yoshimitsu

Both are in Tekken 6

I know that more than likely neither ending will happen. I kind of wish they would kill him off just so they can't keep crapping on him. Its sad how much of a joke character he's become.

I was even interested in T6. I rented it and brought it back a few days later. When they announced T7 I wrote to Namco and told them to just tell us which Mishima won 6 and who wins 7 and get it over with and we can all save our money.

chueytoo

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Now in high level play, most of these string combos are probably useless and highly punishable, but casual players at least feel like they're doing something.

Casual players playing Street Fighter would very rarely pull off anything cool by hitting a few random buttons in a row.

The main reason we don't have competitive Tekken/3D players is because the jump from casual to serious is so high that it just puts people off.

Yeah i find it really hard to get better at tekken even tho i learn most of my characters moves, juggles no matter how much i play i don't feel like i'm improving.

But in ssf4 i feel like i'm getting better( well i hope i am) everytime i go to the casual.

Doctor DooM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I know that more than likely neither ending will happen. I kind of wish they would kill him off just so they can't keep crapping on him. Its sad how much of a joke character he's become.

I was even interested in T6. I rented it and brought it back a few days later. When they announced T7 I wrote to Namco and told them to just tell us which Mishima won 6 and who wins 7 and get it over with and we can all save our money.

Man, seriously.


Don't get bent out of shape over a stupid fighting game story line.

Because believe me, it's only down hill from there.

JohnMc1

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Man, seriously.


Don't get bent out of shape over a stupid fighting game story line.

Because believe me, it's only down hill from there.

I try not to but its sucks when your favorite character goes from being one of the most dangerous to "such a joke even Dan could kick his ass."

UberPrinny_Baal

Was your letter seriously worded to the tune of:

"Please write me back so I don't have to buy your next game"

I'm not really seeing what's in it for Namco here.

JohnMc1

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Was your letter seriously worded to the tune of:

"Please write me back so I don't have to buy your next game"

I'm not really seeing what's in it for Namco here.

It was kind of giving them a hint that its time to change the storyline. A Mishima all 6 has made the game stale [just like Liu-Kang winning all 4 MKs until his death in 5]

DaleHyland

Has anyone watched the Tekken movie? I saw it this mornin. Doesnt really follow the story much but then again. Fighting games are not known for their stories. I loved tekken 3 when I was like 6. Cant remember much anymore though. I still play tekken 4 often and christie is my main character. She is the only char I learned combos for and I can beat all my friends about 18 times in a row without losing. Tekken works for me. Street fight IV is a load of rubbish in my eyes. It makes no sense. (I hope i didnt start a flame war)
have yet to play Tekken 6 or 5 though.

Doctor DooM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

It was kind of giving them a hint that its time to change the storyline. A Mishima all 6 has made the game stale [just like Liu-Kang winning all 4 MKs until his death in 5]

Uh.. I can think of plenty of things that made MK stale and a boring story wouldn't even be on the first page

JohnMc1

DaleHyland wrote: »

Has anyone watched the Tekken movie?

The animated one or the live action one that should be out here on DVD next month?

christie is my main character. She is the only char I learned combos for and I can beat all my friends about 18 times in a row without losing.

Is button mashing really considered combos now?

bush

Fighting game storys?

DaleHyland

Bush80 wrote: »

Fighting game storys?

I would +1 that


The live action one. The animated one is supposed to be rubbish. Although many would find the live one also rubbish.

Button Mashing? o,o,o,xo is my favourite combo. I can do 10-hits if I like put all four fingers over the main buttons and tap them all in some weird combo.
I suppose I button mash? I use mostly kick attacks. but then again. Im a casual fighter.