Questions about 5,3,1

FTA69

I was having a look at this program and it seems quite interesting although when I researched it on the internet I saw a couple of different versions of it which left me confused.

I see it's a split routine with assistance work, I wonder at this stage would I better off retaining a full-body linear program as I'm gradually moving up weight in my main lifts as it is? Strength is my main concern out of my training but I'm unsure as to what would lead to the most gains at this stage.

I also noticed it has a Boring But Big element and I was wondering if someone who knows about this program explain what it is and the concept behind it.

All replys appreciated, thanks.

d'Oracle

The e-book is $20, can't say there is gonna be a better resource than that.
Wendler is not fond of overcomplicating things by all accounts, so it should be easy enough to get to grips with.

Other than that, all I can say is a few lads on here have had a really good time with it.

Parsley

unless you're having problems with your current programme or stalling, there's no need to go changing your programme or jumping onto something new just because you read about it. But if you do start stalling or get sick of your current programme then 5/3/1 is good.

chadmustang

Full body training will only get you so far in terms of strength.. as your lifts move up you'll begin progressing less and less by not having adequate time to recover. Break the main lifts up.


The assistance work is there to correct muscular imbalances, add muscle and most importantly assist the main lifts.

BBB is simply 5x10 of the main lift at 50-60% to add more muscle mass and work technique.

The %s are based off 90% of your max

The split is
week 1: 65%x5 75%x5 85%x5+
week 2: 70%x3 80%x3 90%x3+
week 3: 75%x5 85%x3 95%x1+
week 4: deload

The + means go to 2-3 reps shy of failure.

Its that simple

PS buy the book because Jim Wendler deserves it!

Colm_OReilly

If you haven't exhausted your linear programming that's giving you the best bang for your buck.

Don't move on to an intermediate program until you've exhausted novice progressions. Then check out the Texas Method, 5/3/1 or whichever one takes your fancy.

Don't forget to eat in line with your goals too.

podge57

chadmustang wrote: »

Full body training will only get you so far in terms of strength.. as your lifts move up you'll begin progressing less and less by not having adequate time to recover. Break the main lifts up.

This is definitely not true, some of the strongest people in the world do full-body training routines.

Most people also underestimate what their body is capable of in terms of recovery

dave80

podge57 wrote: »

some of the strongest people in the world do full-body training routines.

trainin ME and all lifts? examples please?

d'Oracle

dave80 wrote: »

trainin ME and all lifts?

No-one said that.

dave80

d'Oracle wrote: »

No-one said that.

didnt say they did, but a full-body linear program is almost ME dont think anybody of the strongest people in the world would do the big 3 in one workout ME, the are some tat would do sqaut and deadlift tho

Scuba Ste

dave80 wrote: »

didnt say they did, but a full-body linear program is almost ME dont think anybody of the strongest people in the world would do the big 3 in one workout ME, the are some tat would do sqaut and deadlift tho

You don't always have to max out and a full body program doesn't always have to be linear and a full body program doesn't have to include the 3 powerlifts.

How do you think Olympic weightlifters train.

dave80

Scuba Ste wrote: »

You don't always have to max out and a full body program doesn't always have to be linear and a full body program doesn't have to include the 3 powerlifts.

How do you think Olympic weightlifters train.

well if you hav a look at the OP's question he's talking bout linear or 531 :rolleyes:

Scuba Ste

dave80 wrote: »

well if you hav a look at the OP's question he's talking bout linear or 531 :rolleyes:

Great, but I replied to you not the OP.

d'Oracle

dave80 wrote: »

didnt say they did, but a full-body linear program is almost ME dont think anybody of the strongest people in the world would do the big 3 in one workout ME, the are some tat would do sqaut and deadlift tho

A Linear progression should NEVER be near Max effort.
According to everything I have read on the subject.

dave80

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Great, but I replied to you not the OP.

good for you, i like to keep the thread on topic :cool:

podge57

It wasnt made clear that the post was saying linear progression will only get you so far

Linear progression =/= full body training

dave80

podge57 wrote: »

It wasnt made clear that the post was saying linear progression will only get you so far

ye it will only get you so far, OP id go for 531 if i where you its less boring than some routines out there!

Molly

I moved from stronglifts to 5/3/1 and in hindsight it was a big mistake. Milk the linear progression for all you can.

BossArky

FTA69 wrote: »

I was having a look at this program and it seems quite interesting although when I researched it on the internet I saw a couple of different versions of it which left me confused.

I see it's a split routine with assistance work, I wonder at this stage would I better off retaining a full-body linear program as I'm gradually moving up weight in my main lifts as it is? Strength is my main concern out of my training but I'm unsure as to what would lead to the most gains at this stage.

I also noticed it has a Boring But Big element and I was wondering if someone who knows about this program explain what it is and the concept behind it.

All replys appreciated, thanks.

There are a couple of detailed threads on 531 here. Use the search and come back with specific questions. Off the top of my head I remember the following tried it:

kevpants, Hanley, Podge57, Brianthebard, cardio,shoot me, BossArky

I ran 531 for 6 cycles, the last 4 with BBB, which increased by strength and bodyweight. Check my log from ~Sept to Dec '09 for cycles 3-6 when it got going properly.

Positives = strutured program, little thinking involved. Print out your plan for the next 6 months and just do it.

Negatives = takes a loonnngg time to build up... but it's worth it

Lots more info in the other threads...

jaggiebunnet

I'm on 2nd cycle of 5/3/1 and although it definitely doesn't show the improvements as quick as say stronglifts I do think it works...obviously it will get to a stage where it is probably time for a change. I like it though, as said, little thinking involved, the BBB is tough but gets a lot more volume in than I am used to. My PB's are going up, mind you they had a low number to start off with - but in general i definitely feel stronger since i started it.

I guess it is what suits you, I know for a fact that if I was faffing around with 15 different exercises every workout I would have quit a long time ago.

FTA69

Colm O'Reilly made a valuable point regards nutrition though, regardless of what program you're doing you'll never get the best out of your training if your diet isn't bang on. And truth be told at the moment it isn't, half of the week I'm working nights and the other half I'm doing a bloody sales job which involves me running around the place all evening. I'm starting back in college come September and my routine will be a lot more fixed then. I might just tip away at my current linear program until then because I hate starting things I can't give 100% in.

Thanks very much for your replies, they've been most helpful.

chadmustang

Scuba Ste wrote: »

How do you think Olympic weightlifters train.

He was asking about the main power lifts though? and I gave my opinion that full body training will only take you so far before you hit a recovery brick wall.

PS oly lifters training a million hours a day, 9 days a week, I'm sure the OP doesn't have that much time in the gym.

podge57

chadmustang wrote: »

He was asking about the main power lifts though? and I gave my opinion that full body training will only take you so far before you hit a recovery brick wall.

PS oly lifters training a million hours a day, 9 days a week, I'm sure the OP doesn't have that much time in the gym.

Im not trying to say that there is anything wrong with 5/3/1, but you can still do full body training at any level, and recovery shouldn't be an issue