Pickpockets at the Galway Races!

TrevorNelson

I read this article this morning and thought I'd warn everyone:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/galway-races/thief-slashes-punter-with-scalpel-2274632.html

HardyEustace

Equally, keep a hold of the handbag and wallet when you catch sight of the Roma flower sellers in town.

Have heard from several sources that they're not averse to relieving you of your wallet if the opportunity arises.

harryd2

I wonder are the indo getting confused again between Roma and Romanian.
Roma folk come from many different places not just Romania.
Many Irish think they are the same thing, to the disgust of my Romanian friends.

Wompa1

Adorable little scamps, That's a new one though, didn't know they used scalpels. Any time I see the ones selling flowers I give them a wide berth

civis_liberalis

Wompa1 wrote: »

Adorable little scamps,

Gardaí
"It's a nasty, ruthless crime..."

Care to re-think that?

If I was unlucky enough to realise this was happening to me. man or woman, I'd find it hard not to try to kick the **** into them.

Unfortunately this isn't a new thing. I was working in a fairly known pub in town a couple years back when someone was ordering a pint at the bar, and felt a push up against him. His wallet was missing - apparently he had had a lucky day at the races - there was in excess of €3,000 in there. We found the wallet emptied in the toilets.

Wompa1

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Care to re-think that?

New to sarcasm?

civis_liberalis

Wompa1 wrote: »

New to sarcasm?

You've come out with some real gems in the past, so it's not always that easy to detect when it is or is not sarcasm.

Back on topic, I'm always wary of my wallet in town, but these people are highly skilled and practiced so you are basically at their mercy.

consultech

civis_liberalis wrote: »

these people are highly skilled and practiced so you are basically at their mercy.

But you're really not though? I've grown tired of people like my folks telling me there are pickpockets out there that can relieve you of your money and underwear from accross a busy train platform if they so wish. It's not magic.

I've never been dipped, and have been to some hairy places/countries over the years. My wallet is fairly large, and I'm definitely gonna feel it if it's comin out of my jeans pocket, which is where I keep it. If anyone gets in my personal space in public I kind of automatically rest my hand on my pocket.

HardyEustace

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Back on topic, I'm always wary of my wallet in town, but these people are highly skilled and practiced so you are basically at their mercy.

Well, that's true, but at the risk of sounding somewhat naive, I always find that glaring at them, while very obviously tucking your bag under and in other words letting them know that you know that they're there means that they move on ... probably to other victims but at least you've made it obvious they've been spotted.

They're the parasites of the street. Absolutely vile without a moral bone in their body.

consultech

consultech wrote: »

But you're really not though? I've grown tired of people like my folks telling me there are pickpockets out there that can relieve you of your money and underwear from accross a busy train platform if they so wish. It's not magic.

I've never been dipped, and have been to some hairy places/countries over the years. My wallet is fairly large, and I'm definitely gonna feel it if it's comin out of my jeans pocket, which is where I keep it. If anyone gets in my personal space in public I kind of automatically rest my hand on my pocket.

Exactly, they can only get stuff out of loose pockets, basically pockets that aren't tight to the body. The outside pocket of a suit being the main one, inside if its unbuttoned, back pocket in jeans as things have a tendency to rise out slowly(as anyone would know if they put a bottle of beer in there).

Anything in a front jeans pocket is fine

Xiney

Granted the main reason I wear a messenger style handbag is because I'm too lazy to bother putting much effort into carrying a regular one, but it does have the advantage of being harder to swipe off me as someone runs past. It's also pretty much a labyrinth of openings and zips and black hole singularities and stuff so they'd have difficulty finding my wallet. I can't even do it half the time....

biko

HardyEustace wrote: »

Equally, keep a hold of the handbag and wallet when you catch sight of the Roma flower sellers in town.

Have heard from several sources that they're not averse to relieving you of your wallet if the opportunity arises.

What are these sources?

onemorechance

biko wrote: »

What are these sources?

Are you serious?

racso1975

Just keep an eye out for a fella called paddy power. That fecker has emptied my wallet twice so far!

Xiney

biko wrote: »

What are these sources?

honestly biko, if you don't know anyone who's been robbed by a roma you don't talk to enough people.


I can name five people in various parts of the world off the top of my head straight away.

biko

The reason I asked is that when someone say "stay away from the Roma flower sellers, they are thieves" it sounds like racism to me. Particularly when the sources are not disclosed.

If these "sources" are people down the pub then it's hearsay, if it links to news or Garda statements then I'd like to see them.

Edit: I'm not talking about the people in the OP now, I'm asking HardyEustace about what sources he bases his statement to avoid Roma flower sellers on.

TobyZiegler

Couldnt access that article in work as it is blocked so apologies if anything below is in the article.

My relations are bookies at the races and see some of the same pickpocketer faces every year doing very well for themselves. A time one guy strikes is when everyone mills forward towards the bookies to place their bets or collect after a race. Anybody with money in back pockets has a huge target on their back. he stands next to them with a rolled up newspaper and slips his hand in, takes the wallet and another guy walks past him and takes it off him and disappears into the crowd. They have reported him to the guards and the guards know who he is at this stage but I suppose its all so quick that its hard to catch him with the wallet in him.

One thing they have said is that an time the announcement about pickpocketers is made everyone automatically puts their hand to the place where they store their wallet, thus making it very easy for a pickpocketer who is watching to know where you have it stored.

consultech

biko wrote: »

The reason I asked is that when someone say "stay away from the Roma flower sellers, they are thieves" it sounds like racism to me. Particularly when the sources are not disclosed.

If these "sources" are people down the pub then it's hearsay, if it links to news or Garda statements then I'd like to see them.

Well he's hardly going to pop mobile numbers in his post so that we can verify his story, is he?

I'd love to see you test your PC anti-racist attitude next time they approach you by closing your eyes and putting your hands in the air.

They're in Ireland for a reason, and various gangs such as those from Bulgaria are renowned the world over for pick pocketing. I'm not entirely sure what "sources" you need?

Wompa1

civis_liberalis wrote: »

You've come out with some real gems in the past, so it's not always that easy to detect when it is or is not sarcasm.

I like to keep people guessing. Although the tip off may have been when I said I'd give them a wide berth.

biko

I would also suggest to spread the money over several pockets.

Don't put your handbag down out of sight, I know a girl that was distracted by an English guy for a light and when she bent down to get her handbag it was gone. We're fairly sure he was in cahoots with the robber.

Keep anything valuable in the hotel, only carry what you will use that night in cash.

Xiney

biko wrote: »

The reason I asked is that when someone say "stay away from the Roma flower sellers, they are thieves" it sounds like racism to me. Particularly when the sources are not disclosed.

If these "sources" are people down the pub then it's hearsay, if it links to news or Garda statements then I'd like to see them.

Edit: I'm not talking about the people in the OP now, I'm asking HardyEustace about what sources he bases his statement to avoid Roma flower sellers on.

No I get it... but I was actually present at one of these instances when my friend and I were surrounded by roma flower sellers in Spain. They were pushing into us obviously trying to get at our pockets. My friend lost a substantial amount of cash (particularly as we were only 15/16 and didn't have that much cash to begin with) and I was only saved because I had a money wallet on under my jumper.

Someone else got robbed at the tour eifel the following year (although I didn't see it) and I had one friend who chased a small roma boy through the streets of dublin as he'd taken his wallet.

Mrs OBumble

HardyEustace wrote: »

Equally, keep a hold of the handbag and wallet when you catch sight of the Roma flower sellers in town.

Have heard from several sources that they're not averse to relieving you of your wallet if the opportunity arises.

Kinda like bankers, but without the suits.

soundbyte

biko wrote: »

What are these sources?

The cops cracking down on them is good enough for me anyway. Offering sex down an alleyway, and you get robbed at the same time. Be particularly careful down SHop Street/ Upper Abbeygate St (CPs/Halo) and on Kirwan's Lane outside Buskers Slatehouse door.

Or the entire 'boozing stretch' during Race Week

Gangs of Roma gypsies regularly target drunken men in the city centre, offering to perform acts for €50 – in many cases, the ‘customer’ then has their wallet stolen, and many are reluctant to make formal complaints to Gardaí because of the circumstances.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/14093-garda%C3%AD-target-race-week-prostitution-ring

Head The Wall

I keep my wallet in my front pocket when in a big crowd or if I have jeans on I fold my cash and stick it in the little watch pocket.

HardyEustace

biko wrote: »

The reason I asked is that when someone say "stay away from the Roma flower sellers, they are thieves" it sounds like racism to me. Particularly when the sources are not disclosed.

If these "sources" are people down the pub then it's hearsay, if it links to news or Garda statements then I'd like to see them.

Edit: I'm not talking about the people in the OP now, I'm asking HardyEustace about what sources he bases his statement to avoid Roma flower sellers on.

Well, the sources are friends of friends who have been pick pocketed by them. I'm hardly going print names and details. The newspapers don't report these crimes on specific cases as it's so frequent at this stage.

As another poster pointed out, you don't have to ask too far to find someone that it's happened to. I don't think they're out selling flowers wrapped in a bit of plastic for the good of their health. They're only there to target drunken, distracted i.e. vulnerable people.

And there are NUMEROUS reports in the media of various Roma gangs and scams. I'm just highlighting one of the numerous ways that they go about pickpocketing.

Just as a general comment, I'm bloody sick of the wringing hand brigade and their PC ways. Thieves and robbers deserve justice not sympathy.

Discodog

biko wrote: »

The reason I asked is that when someone say "stay away from the Roma flower sellers, they are thieves" it sounds like racism to me. Particularly when the sources are not disclosed.

Even worse when people cover the hoardings near B&Q with abusive graffiti directed at Roma.

The same thing used to be said about the Irish so we should know what discrimination feels like.

Anyone, anywhere can get pickpocketed. It happened to me on the London tube. I felt the hand & saw a young chap. I put my hand in my pocket, clasped his hand & pulled the fingers apart rather hard. He got off at the next stop to examine his fingers !. I remember reading about a chap who enjoyed stitching some razor blades to a fake wallet & waiting for the scream !.

harryd2

Discodog wrote: »

Anyone, anywhere can get pickpocketed.

True that.
Sadly at the moment in Ireland you're most likely to be pick pocketed by a member of the Roma community.
They are discrimated against so can't get jobs so resort to stealing, so get discrimated against. Vicious circle.

HardyEustace

harryd2 wrote: »

True that.
Sadly at the moment in Ireland you're most likely to be pick pocketed by a member of the Roma community.
They are discrimated against so can't get jobs so resort to stealing, so get discrimated against. Vicious circle.

Eh, other people that don't have jobs don't resort to stealing.

harryd2

HardyEustace wrote: »

Eh, other people that don't have jobs don't resort to stealing.

many jobless with no welfare do.

martyboy48

By Brian McDonald


Wednesday July 28 2010

GARDAI have warned racegoers in Galway to be on the alert for a gang of pickpockets using scalpels to slice open jackets and handbags.

In an incident yesterday a punter was wounded after a scalpel sliced his abdomen during an attempt to rob his wallet.

After he discovered his wallet was missing, he reported the loss to gardai at Ballybrit. Only then was it brought to his attention that he appeared to be bleeding from his lower abdomen.

Medical attention was summoned for the man, who was completely unaware that he had sustained a nasty cut. He received a number of minor stitches.

Gardai then took him aside to fill him in on the background to his injury. He had fallen prey to what gardai in Galway believe is a Romanian gang of thieves who are tracking vulnerable racegoers and holidaymakers armed with scalpels.

When the opportunity arises in the crowds they slice the bottom of a jacket or trousers pocket to allow a wallet to fall away easily into their hands.

Injured

"It's a nasty, ruthless crime and thankfully this man was not too badly injured. He was more shocked at what had happened than anything else," a senior garda spokesman told the Irish Independent.

The scalpel-wielding gang have also been targeting women, slicing open the bottom of handbags to make off with purses.

"We want to warn racegoers at the track and also in the busy pubs and city-centre streets at night that these people are in town for the big week. They should be particularly careful in crowded situations and avoid carrying large sums of money if at all possible," the spokesman added.

Meanwhile, a crackdown on camper vans and mobile homes parking along Salthill promenade and other scenic areas of the city has forced some racegoers off Galway's streets and into pay-as-you-go caravan parks.

Galway City Council was on the receiving end of numerous complaints following an influx of camper vans parking along the main tourist area in Salthill for last year's racing festival.

As well as blocking the scenery for seaside strollers, the camper van occupants had taken to using the facilities of local businesses "on the cheap" every morning.

- Brian McDonald

Irish Independent

Funny how they believe it was a romanian gang of thieves When he didn't know he was robbed until he looked for his wallet and there was no report of anyone seeing the offence... Anyone could have done it, from any backround..
With the galway races, and any other places where there will be a lot of people with other things on their mind, there will be pickpockets/thieves... Always was, always will be...

Xiney

I heard on the radio several times today that the gardai have said that nobody has reported to them any such incident involving scalpels.

inisboffin

Xiney wrote: »

No I get it... but I was actually present at one of these instances when my friend and I were surrounded by roma flower sellers in Spain. They were pushing into us obviously trying to get at our pockets. My friend lost a substantial amount of cash (particularly as we were only 15/16 and didn't have that much cash to begin with) and I was only saved because I had a money wallet on under my jumper.

Someone else got robbed at the tour eifel the following year (although I didn't see it) and I had one friend who chased a small roma boy through the streets of dublin as he'd taken his wallet.

For some reason these stories sit even less well with me. Aren't we talking about a *race* of people? Replace Roma with another word and...well you get my drift. We only see the Roma begging on streets wearing distinctive clothing. But Xiney, in your account, we are not even talking about the same country for each incident!

I am trying to think of an analogy (sorry am tired) and what I am coming up with is 'English football fans'. I have seen them beat the cr*p out of people for no reason in more than one country too, but do I assume that is all English people who support football? No.
Sorry, your experience is your experience, but this makes me unsettled. And no, having lived in countries around the world with Rom population I have never heard of anyone *I* know being robbed by 'one' either.

Hassled for money, as in begging? Yes. Robbed- no.

Most thieves who are superpro and descend on Galway every race week often work in pairs, often are dressed well and, like all good spies, look just like 'everyone else'

gaeilgegrinds1

About 3 years ago was out on the street in front of the Front Door/Buskers on Ladies Day with my OH, bestfriend and her boyfriend. They were all drinking but I was training so hadn't taken a drop. Everyone around us seemed sloshed. My friend went for her camera and just then out of the corner of my eye I saw a 'lady' put her hand up her long skirt with something. All I really saw was the strap of the camera. We accosted her and I took the camera off her. Part of me felt what we were doing seemed wrong as she was adamant it was her camera. My OH and friend's fella held her. She proceeded to bit one and kick the other and run off, easy to do in a crowd. I checked the camera, sure enough it was my friend's. Very few people seemed to see what happened, crowds hide a lot. We went to Millstreet to report it but not a lot could be done. I know taking a set against a particular race is wrong but really and truly I have heard the types of scams run by these and at this stage have had my mind changed.
They no more want to sell flowers than I do. While these, 'acts,' are being perfored they often rob men and their use of children in their petty crimes really grate on my nerves. I obviously cannot go into detail on that one but a child in my mother's school was taken aside by social services and made me feel stupid by comparison when I heard of the trickery he had been taught. I'd be very careful this week, man undesireables come to town. All I want to know is why they're left here and so few prosecuted when so many crimes committed by them.

HardyEustace

harryd2 wrote: »

many jobless with no welfare do.

Surely if they were here legitimately they would be entitled to welfare?

harryd2

HardyEustace wrote: »

Surely if they were here legitimately they would be entitled to welfare?

Not normally as I'm aware.
They have to have paid tax in the state for 2 years before they are entitled to dole.
If they are asylum seekers from outside EU it's a different matter I think.

Having lived in Eastern Europe for 6 years, I've been victim several times to crimes from Roma folk including been pickpocketed.
Some are very ruthless and agressive. Most non-Roma people in places with alot of Roma absolutely hate them. I can see why.
I give them a wide berth now (que: PC's with the racist-card), but can see it's a vicious circle.

dolphin city

I don't know who the pick pockets are to be honest, but I can tell you that there definitely is a major influx of eastern europeans along shop street in town, I walked down there yesterday and the women were all over the place and the men were in groups of four or five on various different corners of the town.
Maybe they were in because they like horseracing - or maybe they just like the vibe of the town this week.

I also spotted a lot of Irish with various accents from around Ireland in the town too - maybe they are here for the racing and the music.

who knows.

I also spotted a three card trick person down in High Street/Quay Street area (i thought this was illegal) with a couple of his friends pretending they were punters passing by - note if you are reading this, three card trick man - you should try and change your friends as people get very used to looking at the same faces on the punters winning the money

I have also noticed a TON more taxi's than usual in Galway, but maybe they too have driven into Galway to go horseracing and just forgot to take their taxi sign down from the car.

inisboffin

GG1, I hear you and your personal experience. And of course I just have mine. Ye see how this goes though don't ye when and *entire race* / cultural minority etc are ALL put in the same bunch??? It spreads, the malice, and targets the wrong people too, it has gone from ALL Roma now, to 'Romanians' (in the paper and often though to be the same group by many people) to now we are singling out Eastern Europeans in a thread about pickpockets?

Look there are organised crime elements associated with MANY ethnic and cultural groups from the Mafia, to Travellers to Roma, to the Crips whatever.

Roma / Travellers / Black people who we see commit crime are SO visible to us because they stand out. These are crimes committed by 'these people'. Again I will state (and I do know about this as a family friend is a detective) that the majority of slick organised pickpockets in race week are white, Irish/English, and usually normal to well dressed. They *don't* stand out.

Anyone can rob you. Be vigilant and be aware.

@ Dolphin City, yeah, it was on the radio that a HUGE number of non-licensed (for here) Taxi Drivers have descended on Galway, and it is totally illegal as they don't have permission to operate.

harryd2

Today's advertiser says the scalpel story as reported in the Indo is not true..
On another note I was surprised to see no mention of the races on the advertiser front page.

sgthighway

Apologies but I didn't read the whole thread but my friend had her bag nicked in Buskar Brownes. Her own fault for not keeping an eye on it. Let her experience be a lesson for us all to be more careful in pubs this week.
The lad who nicks my wallet will be sorry - feck all in it these days

gaeilgegrinds1

My OH said his friend had her coat taken from Buskers lastnight. They straight through it seemingly...

BornToBe?

Does anyone else think if their stomach was sliced open they'd notice?

gaeilgegrinds1

Alcohol numbs pain quite a bit from what I remember!

martyboy48

BornToBe? wrote: »

Does anyone else think if their stomach was sliced open they'd notice?

Initially you probably wouldn't if it was a scalpal(sp)..a lot would depend on what you were wearing and weather conditions..

biko

I cut myself with a scalpel by mistake (worked in a hospital before) and there is no pain. Well until the blood starting pumping out but that another story.

But it seems Indo (thief cuts guy in stomach) was wrong according to Advertiser (No truth to Ballybrit scalpel attack and robbery story — gardaí).

A spokesperson for Galway Garda station told the Advertiser yesterday that gardaí had not received any report of a man being injured by thieves who used a scalpel to cut his clothes and steal his wallet. A report in the national media yesterday claimed a man reported the theft of his wallet to the temporary Garda station in Ballybrit, and was found to be bleeding from his lower abdomen as a result of being slashed with a scalpel during the robbery. However the spokesperson said no such report had been made, and no one had been injured at Ballybrit.

Xiney

inisboffin wrote: »

For some reason these stories sit even less well with me. Aren't we talking about a *race* of people? Replace Roma with another word and...well you get my drift. We only see the Roma begging on streets wearing distinctive clothing. But Xiney, in your account, we are not even talking about the same country for each incident!

I am trying to think of an analogy (sorry am tired) and what I am coming up with is 'English football fans'. I have seen them beat the cr*p out of people for no reason in more than one country too, but do I assume that is all English people who support football? No.
Sorry, your experience is your experience, but this makes me unsettled. And no, having lived in countries around the world with Rom population I have never heard of anyone *I* know being robbed by 'one' either.

Hassled for money, as in begging? Yes. Robbed- no.

Most thieves who are superpro and descend on Galway every race week often work in pairs, often are dressed well and, like all good spies, look just like 'everyone else'

Something does not have to be absolute to be endemic.

As I understand it, Roma are an ethnic group, not a race. Some experiences I've had and my friends have had with their culture make me wary of them, but I would stop short of branding them theives automatically of course. Frankly, isn't the fact that experiences of them stealing have been worldwide more of an enditement against criminal behaviour being endemic in the community?

As for English football fans, granted not all of them have beaten someone to death, but when I was at a match at Old Trafford I was certainly more vigilant of who was near me, how they were acting etc than I have ever been at Sligo Showgrounds/Terryland. The sheer number of mounted police along the route in Manchester certainly reminded me that I wasn't in Kansas anymore, so to speak.

inisboffin

Xiney wrote: »

Something does not have to be absolute to be endemic.

As I understand it, Roma are an ethnic group, not a race. Some experiences I've had and my friends have had with their culture make me wary of them, but I would stop short of branding them theives automatically of course. Frankly, isn't the fact that experiences of them stealing have been worldwide more of an enditement against criminal behaviour being endemic in the community?

As for English football fans, granted not all of them have beaten someone to death, but when I was at a match at Old Trafford I was certainly more vigilant of who was near me, how they were acting etc than I have ever been at Sligo Showgrounds/Terryland. The sheer number of mounted police along the route in Manchester certainly reminded me that I wasn't in Kansas anymore, so to speak.

Ok well then it's just semantics to me. It feels very wrong to me to infer that an entire (if not, then majority of an) *ethnic group* have criminal tendencies (and that has been the inference). And while I hear your point about prevalence (and agree a much lesser extent - many displaced groups have higher incidence of violence, criminal activity etc, due to a nomadic lifestyle, and surviving abuses), I feel that the visibility factor of these criminal elements within are heightened by the fact that they stand out, by their dress and the 'costume'.
Back to the football analogy, you would likely be more frightened by an English football fan dressed in full garb and a scarf, than you would by the same guy in jeans and a teeshirt in a pub, no? If he was violent walking down the street in jeans and teeshirt, it would just be 'some guy', but wearing full garb he becomes part of the 'mob' that we know.


I do know Xiney, that we live our lives based on our personal experiences, and of course yours are valid, but it just doesn't sit right with me that we (for the most part) assume an entire group are likely to be criminals! Again, my own personal experience with the pickpocket issue says the opposite.

And I really do believe that this is a vicious circle, and the more we buy into negative stereotypes - the more reason we encourage people to say f*ckit, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

Discodog

Oh dear !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1298957/Gang-smuggled-200-children-Romania-UK-beg-steal-streets.html

I was talking to a Romanian girl who works as a cleaner. She has to lie about her nationality to be trusted & get work. She was explaining that they suffer more from the reputation of the Roma as everyone assumes that Roma & Romanian are the same. The story above suggests that the Romanian government are also concerned.

Ironbar

The same here......or why do you think they have the children with them downtown ? They know the laws. Children under age cant be sued for stealing so theyre sending them out to do it for them.

Effin cowards ! They should be kicked out of the country - all of them.

And before someone thinks I'm a racist: I'm a foreigner in this country myself but I know how to behave in a country I'm only a guest in...

Placebo Effect

Ironbar wrote: »

The same here......or why do you think they have the children with them downtown ? They know the laws. Children under age cant be sued for stealing so theyre sending them out to do it for them.

Effin cowards ! They should be kicked out of the country - all of them.

And before someone thinks I'm a racist: I'm a foreigner in this country myself but I know how to behave in a country I'm only a guest in...

It is racism, pure & simple.

inisboffin

Quote from the Daily Mail article :

"A police spokesman said: ‘The children were told their families would be at risk if they tried to flee, and families were told the children would be harmed if they made a complaint to the authorities.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1298957/Gang-smuggled-200-children-Romania-UK-beg-steal-streets.html#ixzz0vFtLtUlJ

So who are these 'families'? If the inference is that EVERY ONE is a criminal.
Most people knows that criminal elements LOVE marginalised/addicted/weakened/ostracised groups of people, as it keeps them one step further from the law. Higher elements of targeting by criminals - sure, just like many weaker groups are targeted (think of ALL children, and how their voices are less heard), but saying we need to kick them ALL out of somewhere is indeed racist, no matter what country you are from.:mad: