Too much protein?

PH4T

I just joined a new gym and the instructor doing my induction said I should take two protein shakes a day. One after training on the 3 weights days, or in the mornings the other days and one before bed.

Is this too much protein?

the drifter

How much is in each shake?

But i would say no this is fine

PH4T

the drifter wrote: »

How much is in each shake?

But i would say no this is fine

The scoop says 90ml and it says 30g on the side of the tub. It's TMU Whey Protein I got from Nutrition Junction btw.

the drifter

Assuming your also getting protien from other sources then 30g twice a day from a shake is fine

remember food is the best source of protien!

TommyKnocker

PH4T wrote: »

I just joined a new gym and the instructor doing my induction said I should take two protein shakes a day. One after training on the 3 weights days, or in the mornings the other days and one before bed.

Is this too much protein?

Hi there

Not a lot of information to go on here, but I am going to say ignore your instructor for the moment. Unless your instructor has discussed with you in detail your current diet, then IMHO they have no reason to be advising you to take supplements.

Firstly, What are your goals? What brought you to the gym in the first place?

• To lose body fat (weight)
• To gain lean muscle
• To gain strength (get stronger)
• To improve your general fitness
• To improve you fitness for a specific sport you are involved in
• Other Reason

Secondly, What is your current diet like? List out a typical days food and liquid intake in as much detail as possible. Include everything that crosses your lips. Also give an idea of you weekly alcohol consumption if applicable.

Example of part of my daily food intake

05:30 - Breakfast
20g Jumbo oats, 3 almond nuts, 3 hazel nuts, 3 walnut halves, 3 brazil nuts, dessert spn of mixed seeds, 5 grapes, 8 raspberries, 6 blackberries, 3 strawberreis, dessert spn of blueberries with 200ml of no fat milk.

200ml Cranberry juice & 1 mug of green tea

1 Multi-vit, 4 Fish oil capsules, 1 Advanced C-Jointin (For joint health)

08:30 ish - at desk in work
Whey shake with 1.25 scoops of Whey, 1 tea spoon of Creatine, 1 tea spoon of L-Glutamine and 400ml no fat milk.

2 oat cakes each with a heaped tea spoon of peanut butter

1 apple

11:00 ish - snack
1 Banana, 1 Kiwi & 125g homemade cottage cheese and mixed berry mousse

1 mug of green tea

12:45 - Lunch
400g of homemade ratatouille, 125g chicken breast, 125g fillet beef

1 dessert spoon of Peanut Butter

1 mug of green tea

Finally for now, what is your workout routine like? What exercise are you doing on your 3 weight days, how many sets and reps of each? what weight are you lifting in each?

Are you doing other days in the gym where you do cardio? or do you do extra cardio outside the gym? Do you play any sports etc?

The answers to the questions above would IMHO determine what your diet should be like and what the marco nutrient (Protein, Carbs & Fats) breakdown should be. Then you should look to meet these requirements from whole foods as much as posible. Then and only then should you consider taking supplements and only if they are required. Also do your research and know what each supplement you take is suposed to do and only take it if you think you

• Require it to meet a deficiency in your diet
• Will possibly benefit from taking this supplement.

Reasons not to take suplements

• Because your mates do
• Because you see others in the gym take them
• Because some gym instructor tells you to (when you have just joined a gym)
• Because some article in a magazine/web site tells you that this supplement will have you bulked up and ripped in next to no time.

This is just my 2 cents worth. I am no expert and have no qualifications in either nutrition or physical training.


Best Regards,

M

PH4T

B-Builder wrote: »

The answers to the questions above would IMHO determine what your diet should be like and what the marco nutrient (Protein, Carbs & Fats) breakdown should be.

Thanks for the comprehensive response B-Builder. I will try to give as comprehensive a reply.

I joined the gym because I just turned 30 and I probably can’t get away with the lifestyle I have been living and not turn into a fat bastard. I want to eat and drink as I have been in my 20’s as much as possible but I think I will need to work out more now to balance it.

I have been a member of a normal gym firstly and then Educo gym over the last two years. In the normal gym I did a lot of cardio and a bit of weights. I then tried Educo because there is one beside my office and I could pop in at lunch time. I liked some of the stuff they did but I felt I couldn’t really trust them and they are very expensive with very basic facilities. So I wanted to join a normal gym again and take some of the stuff I learned in Educo to it.

Example of Diet

Basically I like eating out so I generally have 4 good days where I don’t eat out and then between 1 and 3 where I do. Diet for a good day is as follows:

07:30 Breakfast
Coffee and Onken yoghurt

08:00 at desk in work
Whey shake in 300ml of water

12:00 Lunch
M&S salad with some meat, nuts and cottage cheese

19:00 Dinner
300g meat and two veg. Try to keep carbs to a minimum

23:00
Whey shake in 300ml of water

Diet for the other days is the same except change the Dinner to 3 course meal and 1-3 glasses of wine.

Weekly alcohol consumption averages about 3 bottles of wine

Workout routine

For all of these the instructor said do 4 sets by 10 reps and set the weight so that you can barely finish the 4th set. I can’t remember all of them but here are most of them:

Day 1 – Legs
Squats
Lunges
Thigh curls
Thigh extensions

Day 2 – Chest and Back
Incline press
Dumbell press
Push up
Back extension
Dumbell fly

Day 3 – Arms and Shoulders
Biceps 1
Biceps 2
Triceps 1
Triceps 2
Upright Row
Rear Delt Pull
Seated Rear Lateral Fly
Lying Lateral Raise

For Cardio I am doing 1 game of 5-a-side football, 1 spinning class, 1 session in the pool of 1km and 1 game of golf while carrying my golf bag (ahem!)

Armedocr

What's your current height and weight?

Also that routine doesn't look the best on chest and back day you have one movement which is a back extension...also seems like alot of volume to me.

PH4T

Armedocr wrote: »

What's your current height and weight?

Also that routine doesn't look the best on chest and back day you have one movement which is a back extension...also seems like alot of volume to me.

5 ft 11, 76kg or so.

Sorry I am leaving out some of the chest and back stuff that I can't remember. I'm still at the stage where I am carrying my routine sheet around with me until I memorise it.

Armedocr

PH4T wrote: »

5 ft 11, 76kg or so.

Sorry I am leaving out some of the chest and back stuff that I can't remember. I'm still at the stage where I am carrying my routine sheet around with me until I memorise it.

Just scanning your diet I'd say you need more protein in there. Preferably from whole food.

I assume your a beginner, your routine just seems like too much volume. If it was me, and it's not, I'd stick to a more strength based routine concentrating on the main compound lifts.

PH4T

Armedocr wrote: »

Just scanning your diet I'd say you need more protein in there. Preferably from whole food.

I assume your a beginner, your routine just seems like too much volume. If it was me, and it's not, I'd stick to a more strength based routine concentrating on the main compound lifts.

Too much volume as in doing too many different things or doing too many sets for the weights?

Armedocr

PH4T wrote: »

Too much volume as in doing too many different things or doing too many sets for the weights?

Well just looking at your chest day your doing 16 sets already, 160 reps lol
and you say you haven't listed everything?

Have a look and stronglifts.com or at the starting strength program both are great programs though squatting 3x a week can get to be too much at higher weights.

Either of those programs though will give you great gains and with a good diet you'll notice some great changes to your physique.

dartstothesea

Sorry if I'm being obtuse or stupid by asking this but could someone explain why getting your protein from wholefoods is so much better? I mean, assuming you're getting the right amount of carbs and also vitamins and stuff anyway.

TommyKnocker

dartstothesea wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being obtuse or stupid by asking this but could someone explain why getting your protein from wholefoods is so much better? I mean, assuming you're getting the right amount of carbs and also vitamins and stuff anyway.

Hi There

I wouldn't be an expert. But I think that different protein sources will have different amino acid profiles. So to make sure that you get as broad a spectrum of AA's a possible you shuld get your protein from a number of different sources. Same as eating a varied and balanced diet to get adequate levels of marco and micro nutrients.

That's my understanding anyways.


M

rubadub

B-Builder wrote: »

only take it if you think you

• Require it to meet a deficiency in your diet
• Will possibly benefit from taking this supplement.

And because it can be cost effective if money is an issue, esp. with protein supplements. Thats if you even consider whey a supplement, the OP just mentioned protein shakes, to me whey is just another dairy product.

Armedocr wrote: »

Just scanning your diet I'd say you need more protein in there. Preferably from whole food.

Depending on your definition then supermarket milk and tins of tuna might not be considered wholefoods. Neither would cottage cheese -its just another dairy product like whey. Of course whey might undergo more processing than some of these. If you do consider whey a supplement then if you also drink processed "made from concentrate" fruit juice to bump up your carb levels then you should rationally call it a supplement too.

Armedocr

rubadub wrote: »

And because it can be cost effective if money is an issue, esp. with protein supplements. Thats if you even consider whey a supplement, the OP just mentioned protein shakes, to me whey is just another dairy product.


Depending on your definition then supermarket milk and tins of tuna might not be considered wholefoods. Neither would cottage cheese -its just another dairy product like whey. Of course whey might undergo more processing than some of these. If you do consider whey a supplement then if you also drink processed "made from concentrate" fruit juice to bump up your carb levels then you should rationally call it a supplement too.

Jesus way to complicate it. Obviously tuna and cheese is a whole food you chew the damn thing :P Milk I won't really go into, super market milk is pretty terrible and I don't drink it.

I've no problem with protein powders, what I have a problem with is people consuming 50-60% of their daily protein intake with supplements especially whey.

If for some strange reason you were using fruit juice to bump up your carb level then yea I probably would see it as supplement...as your using it to supplement your diet.

AntiVirus

dartstothesea wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being obtuse or stupid by asking this but could someone explain why getting your protein from wholefoods is so much better? I mean, assuming you're getting the right amount of carbs and also vitamins and stuff anyway.

A quick guess and I'd say its better for getting vitamins and oils in as well

rubadub

Armedocr wrote: »

Jesus way to complicate it. Obviously tuna and cheese is a whole food you chew the damn thing

I am not trying to complicate it, you gave no examples or definition of wholefoods. I just want people to actually sit back and think logically about what they are saying for once.

What is your definition of a supplement? I see this "wholefoods" mentioned all the time and I am not sure what people exactly mean by it. If you meant "chewable food" then why not say so. You chew protein bars so they would fall under your definition. This is what I am getting at, the whole idea of supplements is very vague when people start throwing in dairy products in with them. Whey protein powder is a common ingredient in biscuits & ice cream and other foods.

one example of a definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wholefoods

Whole foods are foods that are unprocessed and unrefined, or processed and refined as little as possible before being consumed. Whole foods typically do not contain added ingredients, such as sugar, salt, or fat.[1] Examples of whole foods include unpolished grains; fruits and vegetables; unprocessed meat, poultry, and fish; and non-homogenized milk.

So raw milk would be a whole food, many fresh meats might be salted. Most porridge oats are not a whole food by that definition.

If for some strange reason you were using fruit juice to bump up your carb level

Its not strange at all, I expect many would drink it before a workout. Many people mix creatine with fruit juice, others mix protein with it in PWO shakes, if they consider the protein a supp, then logically so should the juice, or glucose for that matter, or possibly even the 20 jaffa cakes they would not ordinarily eat if they were not training.

Armedocr wrote: »

I probably would see it as supplement...as your using it to supplement your diet.

By that logic some wholefoods could be supplements to some people, e.g. if you are eating 5 chicken fillets per day to supplement your diet with more protein.

Armedocr

Well tbh for myself I see all food as a supplement.

Food for me is a means to an end. When I use the term supplements on forums I'm referring to protein powders, multi vits etc.

When I'm talking about wholefoods I mean things like chicken, red meat, veg, grains. According to your own quote,

"Examples of whole foods include unpolished grains; fruits and vegetables; unprocessed meat, poultry, and fish; and non-homogenized milk. "

That's exactly what I mean by whole foods. I wouldnt count jaffa cakes as a "food" they're "junk".

TommyKnocker

When I refer to whole foods I refer to staple healthy foods that the majority of folks on here would buy in their local supermarket and eat. I take the point that Whey is just another protein source, but if you asked 100 folks on the forum to name 5 supplements, I would reckon that at least 98 of them would list whey.

My issue with the OP was that a gym instructor advised somebody going through their induction to take protein shakes twice a day. There are so many folks that appear to think that whey is some kind of magic powder which will turn them into Mr Universe.

I feel if a trainer wants to give dietary advice, they should look at the trainees diet first and suggest ways to clean it up before going down the protein shakes route. Who's to say a trainer is not getting a commission from the gyms supplement shop or wherever for pushing supplements.


M

LightningBolt

Bloody hell Rubadub, wholefoods for 95% of the population means something that isn't in powder form i.e. you keep it in the fridge at night time. Most people take supplements to mean powdered products or pills.

To the OP, two protein shakes on training days is fine. Personally, I'd favour getting it from dead animals but if you're stuck for time or it works out to be affordable for you go ahead.

rubadub

B-Builder wrote: »

I take the point that Whey is just another protein source, but if you asked 100 folks on the forum to name 5 supplements, I would reckon that at least 98 of them would list whey.

And if you went on a Chinese forum 98 of them would probably list milk, even though most here would not, even though just like whey it is just another dairy product, albeit one which most people in their culture do not eat on its own.

My point is if you are going to list one ordinary food you would not ordinarily eat then you should add others too, be it whey, tuna, fruit juice. It just makes logical sense to me and lumping whey in alongside say creatine is just adding fuel to fire of the "the whey=steroids" joe duffy brigade. I just like to point out there is NOTHING special about it. If I gave up training I would continue to eat whey, it is a normal food to me now, I wish I had discovered it years ago. Though this is probably due to the way I prepare it, with ice cubes in a blender, the way most people on here drink it would probably sicken me, just like people eating boiled chicken fillets would sicken me.

B-Builder wrote: »

There are so many folks that appear to think that whey is some kind of magic powder which will turn them into Mr Universe.

And that is exactly what I am trying to get at, it is just another food, nothing magical, no steroids.

LightningBolt wrote: »

Bloody hell Rubadub, wholefoods for 95% of the population means something that isn't in powder form i.e. you keep it in the fridge at night time. Most people take supplements to mean powdered products or pills.

By that definition wholegrain flour is not a wholefood. I actually think for some people it becomes a supplement when people do not actually LIKE to eat it, something they have to force down and cannot understand how somebody else could actually like it. They do not actually like whey so view it as some sort of medicine to be dosed down, and again this only fuels the fire of mythology surrounding this particular dairy product. By the looks of Joe Duffy he probably eats his fair share in the form of ice cream. I expect many people, including ones on here do not even know they are eating whey protein in loads of products, and so do not view it as an ordinary food at all.

Transform

LightningBolt wrote: »

Bloody hell Rubadub, wholefoods for 95% of the population means something that isn't in powder form i.e. you keep it in the fridge at night time. Most people take supplements to mean powdered products or pills.

To the OP, two protein shakes on training days is fine. Personally, I'd favour getting it from dead animals but if you're stuck for time or it works out to be affordable for you go ahead.

agreed and just did a post on this very point -

Maximum muscle nutrition - http://thetransformationcatalyst.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/maximum-muscle-nutrition-101/

What matters is total calorie intake and too many guys reach for the whey supplements rather than looking at cleaning up their diet and focusing on the big lifts

d'Oracle

High pork content sausages.
Man up and eat.

Got it.

BossArky

dartstothesea wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being obtuse or stupid by asking this but could someone explain why getting your protein from wholefoods is so much better? I mean, assuming you're getting the right amount of carbs and also vitamins and stuff anyway.

Something to do with your body burning more calories to digest whole foods. Google "thermogenic".

PH4T

Transform wrote: »

agreed and just did a post on this very point -

Maximum muscle nutrition - http://thetransformationcatalyst.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/maximum-muscle-nutrition-101/

What matters is total calorie intake and too many guys reach for the whey supplements rather than looking at cleaning up their diet and focusing on the big lifts

Interesting videos. I'll prob have to clean up my diet a bit.

If I eat like you 6 days a week and on the seventh day eat this can I still get results?

MrO

Armedocr wrote: »

Milk I won't really go into, super market milk is pretty terrible and I don't drink it.

Hi - you've got me curious with that statement is it that you just don't like the taste or is there more to it. I always just assumed milk was milk (well I know it's blitzed/pasturised).


I realise intensive farming is an issue, antibiotics etc. just wondering why?

d'Oracle

MrO wrote: »

Hi - you've got me curious with that statement is it that you just don't like the taste or is there more to it. I always just assumed milk was milk (well I know it's blitzed/pasturised).


I realise intensive farming is an issue, antibiotics etc. just wondering why?

Intensive farming is not really an issue here.
There is a lot of scaremongering going on around based on American information. Its just not a problem we have here.
Our cows are not pumped full of antibiotics, as some people would have you believe.
Our meat and milk is good.

Transform

d'Oracle wrote: »

Intensive farming is not really an issue here.
There is a lot of scaremongering going on around based on American information. Its just not a problem we have here.
Our cows are not pumped full of antibiotics, as some people would have you believe.
Our meat and milk is good.

agreed

Transform

PH4T wrote: »

Interesting videos. I'll prob have to clean up my diet a bit.

If I eat like you 6 days a week and on the seventh day eat this can I still get results?

that dinner menu looked great and no issue there at all - though alcohol is normally a big stumbling block for some people.

Yes you can get great results just do not go nuts on the weekend

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

Intensive farming is not really an issue here.
There is a lot of scaremongering going on around based on American information. Its just not a problem we have here.
Our cows are not pumped full of antibiotics, as some people would have you believe.
Our meat and milk is good.

I regularly give cows antibiotics....

if and when needed.

As i do to myself.

chadmustang

PH4T wrote: »

For all of these the instructor said do 4 sets by 10 reps and set the weight so that you can barely finish the 4th set. I can’t remember all of them but here are most of them:

Day 1 – Legs
Squats
Lunges
Thigh curls
Thigh extensions

Day 2 – Chest and Back
Incline press
Dumbell press
Push up
Back extension
Dumbell fly

Day 3 – Arms and Shoulders
Biceps 1
Biceps 2
Triceps 1
Triceps 2
Upright Row
Rear Delt Pull
Seated Rear Lateral Fly
Lying Lateral Raise

For Cardio I am doing 1 game of 5-a-side football, 1 spinning class, 1 session in the pool of 1km and 1 game of golf while carrying my golf bag (ahem!)

That looks more like a list than a program... You don't need as much isolation work in there. Stick to the basics: Squat, Deadlift, various Presses and Rows, Chins and Dips.

PH4T

chadmustang wrote: »

That looks more like a list than a program... You don't need as much isolation work in there. Stick to the basics: Squat, Deadlift, various Presses and Rows, Chins and Dips.

Thanks. That program is for 6 weeks and I have 3 done so I will ask the instructor to change it in 3 weeks.

I will ask him to add in Deadlift, Chins and Dips.

G86

PH4T wrote: »

Thanks. That program is for 6 weeks and I have 3 done so I will ask the instructor to change it in 3 weeks.

I will ask him to add in Deadlift, Chins and Dips.

Why wait?:D

Seriously though, why do later what you can do now. Sooner you sort it sooner you'll be getting the results you want.

TommyKnocker

G86 wrote: »

Why wait?:D

Seriously though, why do later what you can do now. Sooner you sort it sooner you'll be getting the results you want.

+1

I would second G86's response to be honest.

Google Starting Strength or Strong Lifts 5x5 as these are two really good and well proven routines which give results. Then decide which one you want to do and bring the routines down to your gym and get an instructor to go over the lifts with you, to show you correct liftign technique.

Again as G86 said, the sooner you start the sooner you will start to see results.


Best Regards,

M

Btwndeyes

Hey, its possible to have over four shakes a day and not have too much protein, the problem with the shakes is they contain phosphorus and often taking 3 or four shakes gives you too much of this leading to stomach pains and sickness.
Jeff

MrO

d'Oracle wrote: »

Intensive farming is not really an issue here.
There is a lot of scaremongering going on around based on American information. Its just not a problem we have here.
Our cows are not pumped full of antibiotics, as some people would have you believe.
Our meat and milk is good.

Good stuff - giving up the milk is a step too far

Will Heffernan

I go away for a week and people are giving up milk wtf?

I am going to finish my little 'protein' thing today and I want people to read it while eating bagels and drinking milk.

...and in answer to the op question...whether or not it is too much protein depends on your training goals and on the composition of the rest of your diet....I'll take a wild swing and guess that the answer is no....no, you are not taking in too much protein.

the drifter

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I go away for a week and people are giving up milk wtf?

I am going to finish my little 'protein' thing today and I want people to read it while eating bagels and drinking milk.

...and in answer to the op question...whether or not it is too much protein depends on your training goals and on the composition of the rest of your diet....I'll take a wild swing and guess that the answer is no....no, you are not taking in too much protein.

Do we have a time today for the unvailing of the protien piece?

Will Heffernan

the drifter wrote: »

Do we have a time today for the unvailing of the protien piece?

Absolutely...just have a couple of losers here in my office wasting my time talking about fashion...oh wait...they're going now

Barry.Oglesby

re: wholefoods.

Simply put, there's a lot about "food" we don't understand. Why, since we have the ability to synthesize almost any macronutrient, are babies fed on breast milk healthier in general to babies fed on the 'perfect' formulae available on the shelves? (This goes beyond antibodies)

If you read the reputable sources on this and not just the idiot "fitness" bloggers then you'll come across the term nutritionism. In a nutshell, this is the concept of how to eat that's emerged from the whole area of supplementation (which is a multi-squabillion dollar business by the way). Everything from fish oils to nox. It's basically a reductionist idea that not only are you what you eat, but what you eat is only its macros. It's ridiculous.

Was there really anything wrong with our diet 50 years ago? The low fat paradigm has gone out the window and now we're in low carb. I'd say next year we'll be in something else. Milk was the anti-christ a couple of years ago and now everyone is on GOMAD and milk is the new black. Some blogger will read a study tomorrow and pass on some broscience about how milk is evil and soon that will be new enemy all over again.

Eat food.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Was there really anything wrong with our diet 50 years ago? .

Yes, there was no Reggae Reggae Sauce.

chadmustang

d'Oracle wrote: »

Yes, there was no Reggae Reggae Sauce.

x2

dartstothesea

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Was there really anything wrong with our diet 50 years ago?

What was our diet 50 years ago? Was everyone on the same one diet back then or something?

wrote:

Eat food.

I can appreciate you're trying to disparage silly trends of dragging certain macronutrients' names through the mud, the broscience or latest paradigm or whatever you want to call it, but is this really as specific as you think anyone needs to get about what anyone should eat? Not that this as a bottom line could really be argued with or anything, I just have a gut feeling I'd benefit from knowing something more...

Barry.Oglesby

dartstothesea wrote: »

but is this really as specific as you think anyone needs to get about what anyone should eat? Not that this as a bottom line could really be argued with or anything, I just have a gut feeling I'd benefit from knowing something more...

genuinely, yes. If people spent less geek time studying their macros and more time in the gym working their nuts off, they'd be in better shape.

Food, by my definition = meat and vegetables.

PH4T

Transform wrote: »

agreed and just did a post on this very point -

Maximum muscle nutrition - http://thetransformationcatalyst.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/maximum-muscle-nutrition-101/

Transform,

Whats the recipe for the flapjacks you mention in your video?