Resist Residential Property Taxes!

Dreambiz

Okay, folks, it sounds like the government is going to do it, bring in property taxes.

What will that mean? Well nobody knows for sure, but I used to live in the United States and in California it meant that the government decided what the fair market value of your property was, then sent you a bill every year for some percentage of that. That 'percentage' could change and almost always went up. It wasn't a small amount, it was many thousands per year. And, if your neighbourhood location happened to go up in value, the amount you had to pay every year also went up, sometimes a lot. Even if you didn't do any home improvements. And what happens if you can't or won't pay? They can take your house away. Yes, they can put a lien on your property so that they get 'first dibs' on what you owe them when you sell and they even had the power (and used it!) to take the property away from non-payers.

I don't want to see this happen to this beautiful island. This is my home and I am a citizen. The economy is going to be hard enough on us all without having this additional burden - and threat - imposed upon us.

If you or someone you know has paid for their home, it should be theirs free and clear. They've probably worked hard to earn it. They should not then have to worry about where the thousands of euros in annual 'rent' are going to come from. This is like going back to the bad old days of English rule when land rent had to be paid.

The only way to stop this is for the public to resist this move. We must say no firmly - and quickly. This is not going to go to a public vote, it will simply be implemented by the government and you'll start receiving bills. This will affect the very fabric of our society and Ireland will change.

We can talk about commercial property as a separate issue (maybe it's appropriate to tax it, maybe not) but please make your voice heard however you can.

JUST SAY NO TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX IN IRELAND.

Thanks for listening.

- Randy

P. Breathnach

Dreambiz wrote: »

... JUST SAY NO TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX IN IRELAND....

No. To your proposition.

It's a simple and very important fact that the exchequer needs funding, and that means we need taxes, preferably levied on a more reliable base than in the recent past.

[I speak as a homeowner, but I see the general need as clearly as I see my selfish interest.].

questionmark?

I'm with you on this OP.



I think you should add a poll though.

dunsandin

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No. To your proposition.

It's a simple and very important fact that the exchequer needs funding, and that means we need taxes, preferably levied on a more reliable base than in the recent past.

[I speak as a homeowner, but I see the general need as clearly as I see my selfish interest.].

Goody. Will you pay mine for me, I dont want to. Do it in the national interest like. They need funding as they have a huge hole to fill, and I'd hate to see more of my hard earned, fecked down it.If the black hole gets any deeper, we can all just post our wages to australia. Once again, the easy target of the middle class working types will be hit, while the dole bludgers and cute hoors will claim "inability to pay" and be told, "fair enough so".

Dreambiz

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No. To your proposition.

[I speak as a homeowner, but I see the general need as clearly as I see my selfish interest.].

I too see the general need but I think a person's home should be off-limits. We should all consider it sacred - and safe from the ever-intruding tentacles of government.

One place that is safe, our homes.

That does not seem too much to ask. Take it from anywhere else, just not that.

danbohan

Dreambiz wrote: »

Okay, folks, it sounds like the government is going to do it, bring in property taxes.

What will that mean? Well nobody knows for sure, but I used to live in the United States and in California it meant that the government decided what the fair market value of your property was, then sent you a bill every year for some percentage of that. That 'percentage' could change and almost always went up. It wasn't a small amount, it was many thousands per year. And, if your neighbourhood location happened to go up in value, the amount you had to pay every year also went up, sometimes a lot. Even if you didn't do any home improvements. And what happens if you can't or won't pay? They can take your house away. Yes, they can put a lien on your property so that they get 'first dibs' on what you owe them when you sell and they even had the power (and used it!) to take the property away from non-payers.

I don't want to see this happen to this beautiful island. This is my home and I am a citizen. The economy is going to be hard enough on us all without having this additional burden - and threat - imposed upon us.

If you or someone you know has paid for their home, it should be theirs free and clear. They've probably worked hard to earn it. They should not then have to worry about where the thousands of euros in annual 'rent' are going to come from. This is like going back to the bad old days of English rule when land rent had to be paid.

The only way to stop this is for the public to resist this move. We must say no firmly - and quickly. This is not going to go to a public vote, it will simply be implemented by the government and you'll start receiving bills. This will affect the very fabric of our society and Ireland will change.

We can talk about commercial property as a separate issue (maybe it's appropriate to tax it, maybe not) but please make your voice heard however you can.

JUST SAY NO TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX IN IRELAND.

Thanks for listening.

- Randy

the current financial situation in this country is that we are borrowing billions at intrest rates near to 6% , we are broke , their is no option but to bring in property taxes in some form .taxes had to be paid on property here long after the english left (we cant blame them much as i would like !}and they should never have been removed . so pony up , partys over good time had by all, now pay the bill .

azzie

I thought that there had been annual property tax (like UK rates) in Ireland until the 1970s.
I believe most countries levy these taxes, mostly for local expenditure.

silverharp

oddly enough, when I'm involved in financial planning I always try to make the costs match the revenue not the other way round. I see where I've been going wrong, I never tried to mug the customer.

Bring in the property tax but adjust down VAT,grabbing more money off some people to keep the vested interests happy is hardly progress

Head The Wall

Dreambiz, I'm surprised you don't know what the property tax you paid in the states went toward. It would have paid directly for the teachers, police, medical in the townland you lived in. A place with good teachers would pay more property tax to the said good teachers, same with police, town upkeep, firemen etc.

Property tax is not going to be the same here as all the municipal services are already paid from central government. It is a money collecting exercise, you may rant against it but funds will have to come from somewhere

beeno67

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No. To your proposition.

It's a simple and very important fact that the exchequer needs funding, and that means we need taxes, preferably levied on a more reliable base than in the recent past.

[I speak as a homeowner, but I see the general need as clearly as I see my selfish interest.].

The problem with it is you have no choice re how much you pay unlike most taxes. So I would prefer things like water charges, increased refuse charges, increase VAT to 21% on Electricity & gas etc.

Head The Wall

beeno67 wrote: »

The problem with it is you have no choice re how much you pay unlike most taxes. So I would prefer things like water charges, increased refuse charges, increase VAT to 21% on Electricity & gas etc.

Until we know how it is going to be implemented we can't say what it is going to be. I feel it should be tied in some way to a BER rating, e.g it would incentivise people to build houses more efficiently and more ecologically. It would also reward them for carrying out eco improvements by reducing the tax in lieu of improvements carried out. This would only be one facet of the method for determining the level of tax.

Idbatterim

[HTML]It's a simple and very important fact that the exchequer needs funding, and that means we need taxes, preferably levied on a more reliable base than in the recent past.[/HTML] What will this new funding achieve? Ill tell you what it will achieve. Keep an inefficient overpaid Public Service going. No one can dispute that. There are billions being wasted every year. The difference is that it is going to be easier politically to introduce a new tax on homeowners than it would be to go back and sort out The Public Service, i.e the ways its run, the staff levels and salaries. In all private companies, you weed out all unessential waste, when the going gets tough, before you let staff go or cut services. That sure isnt the way our goverment have done things though.

mikemac

azzie wrote: »

I thought that there had been annual property tax (like UK rates) in Ireland until the 1970s.
I believe most countries levy these taxes, mostly for local expenditure.

Before the 1977 Jack Lynch promised to abolish domestic rates.
Fianna Fail swept to power in a landslide, it was certainly a popular move and one of the reasons for their success but of course just one of many reasons.

Fianna Fail duly delivered on this in 1978 and there hasn't been domestic rates since.
The outgoing government had promised this also but FF seized it as their initiative and made it their own.

The councils found they were underfunded
So the government introduced the rate support grant, this grant was supposed to pay money from central funds to make up the shortfall but it just isn't being done.

Central government also instructed local government to introduce benchmarking for their staff but didn't provide extra funding for it.

Einhard

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No. To your proposition.

It's a simple and very important fact that the exchequer needs funding, and that means we need taxes, preferably levied on a more reliable base than in the recent past.

[I speak as a homeowner, but I see the general need as clearly as I see my selfish interest.].

I agree that we need new, more relaiable sources of exchequer funding, but I'd have concerns about the fundamental fairness of a property tax. House value is not a reliable indicator of personal wealth. A pensioner who purchased a house 40 years ago in what developed into a relatively upmarket neighbourhood, can't be expected to pay the same rate as the lawyer next door who moved in last year. There are a huge amount of potential anomolies with such a system, and I'm not sure they could be resolved.

Sand

There needs to be a property tax, with stamp duty being abolished. Thats blatantly required.

The only problem is that this is quite possibly the worst time to introduce one. Too many people have already been robbed by punitive stamp duty in a property bubble stoked by the government, and will feel rightly infuriated that having paid tens of thousands in stamp duty that the government wants to tax them again. But it is needed. Perhaps the government could give a tax credit against future property taxes for the amount of the stamp duty paid on the property in the last 10 years?

There simply wont be a valuation based one any time soon though. There is not enough information to create one. The data protection laws need to be reformed to allow for this. Area doesnt discern between high quality and low quality.

For the want of a simpler, quicker fix they should just introduce a window tax - more windows = higher quality = more valuable build. It wont match all possibilities exactly but it'll work in the short term. Most people will be pretty honest Id assume - discrepancies can be picked up fairly easily: If someones leaving in a 3 bed residential and claims they have only 2 windows thats a red flag.

@Einhard

A pensioner who purchased a house 40 years ago in what developed into a relatively upmarket neighbourhood, can't be expected to pay the same rate as the lawyer next door who moved in last year

Why not? If its an asset based tax then it should hit who holds the assets. There are already income based taxes to ensure the high earning, highly indebted lawyer pays more tax than the non earning, high capital gains pensioner next door. OAPS retain their votes and use them, so I dont really see why they should get a free pass on finding the funding for the governments they elect. If anything, a property tax might be a sneaky way to cut the pension without stirring up the grey brigade too much.

@Idbatterim

What will this new funding achieve?

Discourage government stoking of property bubbles by moving property taxation away from pro-cyclical trends? Help cure the unhealthy Irish attitude towards "the field"?

Rented Mule

People don't want to pay taxes.

That's a new one on me.

changes

Head The Wall wrote: »

Dreambiz, I'm surprised you don't know what the property tax you paid in the states went toward. It would have paid directly for the teachers, police, medical in the townland you lived in. A place with good teachers would pay more property tax to the said good teachers, same with police, town upkeep, firemen etc.

Our property taxes would go towards paying the bills from the reckless years. A low motivator for people.

dissed doc

Dreambiz wrote: »

Okay, folks, it sounds like the government is going to do it, bring in property taxes.

What will that mean? Well nobody knows for sure, but I used to live in the United States and in California it meant that the government decided what the fair market value of your property was, then sent you a bill every year for some percentage of that. That 'percentage' could change and almost always went up. It wasn't a small amount, it was many thousands per year. And, if your neighbourhood location happened to go up in value, the amount you had to pay every year also went up, sometimes a lot. Even if you didn't do any home improvements. And what happens if you can't or won't pay? They can take your house away. Yes, they can put a lien on your property so that they get 'first dibs' on what you owe them when you sell and they even had the power (and used it!) to take the property away from non-payers.

I don't want to see this happen to this beautiful island. This is my home and I am a citizen. The economy is going to be hard enough on us all without having this additional burden - and threat - imposed upon us.

If you or someone you know has paid for their home, it should be theirs free and clear. They've probably worked hard to earn it. They should not then have to worry about where the thousands of euros in annual 'rent' are going to come from. This is like going back to the bad old days of English rule when land rent had to be paid.

The only way to stop this is for the public to resist this move. We must say no firmly - and quickly. This is not going to go to a public vote, it will simply be implemented by the government and you'll start receiving bills. This will affect the very fabric of our society and Ireland will change.

We can talk about commercial property as a separate issue (maybe it's appropriate to tax it, maybe not) but please make your voice heard however you can.

JUST SAY NO TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX IN IRELAND.

Thanks for listening.

- Randy

If, as posters have mentioned, it's to pay for services int he area like fire, police, etc., it should be paid by the tenant or occupier as in the UK; or else a lot more property will come on the market.

Ultimately, the government is short of money. Taking even more money from people living here as if they are cows being milked to the last drop is a sure-fire way to make sure your cattle (because that is what the government views us as) die off.

View

Dreambiz wrote: »

JUST SAY NO TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX IN IRELAND.

The alternative is:

JUST SAY YES TO HIGHER INCOME TAX IN IRELAND

The disadvantage of the current system is that you could have two people both earning the same income and paying the same income tax. One could be living in a modest house (possibly with a negative equity mortgage), the other a mortgage free massive house on Shrewsbury Road (as the inherited it or previously earned higher income). There is no way the "modest house" person is as wealthy as the "Shrewsbury Road" person but the tax man doesn't take this into account when collecting income tax. This is akin to levying higher income tax on the "poor" than on the "rich".

RichardAnd

I'm happy to pay tax and to pay for utilities but something about property tax just irks me. If someone owns a house, no mortgage, I don't think it's really right that they have to pay tax on it. Certainly, they should pay for their utilities and their income tax but the idea of basically renting ones own property just seems unfair.

My dream is to one day build a totally self sufficient home for myself in the middle of no-where so that I can finally live in peace and quiet without having to deal with this nationwide mental asylum. It's just a dream, probably will never happen but if it did, is it right that I would have to pay property tax? Why should you pay for what you own?

Head The Wall

RichardAnd wrote: »

I'm happy to pay tax and to pay for utilities but something about property tax just irks me. If someone owns a house, no mortgage, I don't think it's really right that they have to pay tax on it. Certainly, they should pay for their utilities and their income tax but the idea of basically renting ones own property just seems unfair.

My dream is to one day build a totally self sufficient home for myself in the middle of no-where so that I can finally live in peace and quiet without having to deal with this nationwide mental asylum. It's just a dream, probably will never happen but if it did, is it right that I would have to pay property tax? Why should you pay for what you own?

You are viewing it as a mortgage tax if thats the case - if you have a mortgage you pay tax on it, if you don't have a mortgage you won't. Would end up being very unfair same as the rest of the other suggestions we have heard


To be totally self sufficient would be a nice end result but the costs at the moment to achieve that are prohibitive if you want a half decent standard of living. And don't worry the govt won't let you off that easy. They will find some way to wallop you with tax, some form of social inclusion etc blah, blah

Asha

Hi
As someone has mentioned before a residential property tax is needed for local services, police,council etc.
I'm in a very common position of paying management fees. Our development costs the council very little to maintain. I simply cannot afford to pay the high amounts that have been bandied about at the moment.

Yes central government are screwed for options for revenue raising but I know that all middle income earners will get hit when there will be get out clauses on the basis of inability to pay for others. For fairness it can't just hit homeowners.
Does anyone know how council tax works in the UK? Does it apply to everyone in council / social housing as well?

Head The Wall

I stated that Property tax in the US pays for local Services. That system will not apply here.

ei.sdraob

Sand wrote: »

Discourage government stoking of property bubbles by moving property taxation away from pro-cyclical trends? Help cure the unhealthy Irish attitude towards "the field"?

I dont know as I pointed out before property taxes didnt prevent bubbles in UK or US, and the latest example of Israel where house inflation is at 20% yet another year :eek:

Count Dooku

Property tax together with broadening tax net will hit greedy PS unions more then anything else. PS workers now are in monkey's trap, where pay received during benchmarking is representing banana. More they will try to hold this pay, more they will pay in future.
Increased taxation will not bring extra money into economy. It even will start to drive money out of economy. Property taxes will automatically reduce house prices approximately by amount of tax multiplied by 25. It means that NAMA doesn’t have any chances for success. It also will increase number of defaults on mortgages and taxpayers will have to more for bank guarantee. It also will force more low income workers switch to welfare benefits, rather then subsidize inefficiency in public sector and pay for prevention of compulsory redundancies.
Effect will be devastating, but it will be delayed by one-two years and then, when public finances will be ruined and country will be not able to borrow anymore, then it will be no excuses for PS unions do not accept another 50% cut. Plus as usual we have generation games, when older generation of public servants, who will retire next two years, will get maximum from Celtic Tiger era and remaining will pay in full for prosperity of their older colleagues.

dvpower

Dreambiz wrote: »

Okay, folks, it sounds like the government is going to do it, bring in property taxes.

Is there some breaking news I'm not aware of?
Last I heard, this was being put on the long finger because the Govt. hadn't done the ground work to introduce it.

recedite

Einhard wrote: »

House value is not a reliable indicator of personal wealth. A pensioner who purchased a house 40 years ago in what developed into a relatively upmarket neighbourhood, can't be expected to pay the same rate as the lawyer next door who moved in last year. There are a huge amount of potential anomolies with such a system, and I'm not sure they could be resolved.

A house should be seen as a living expense, not an asset. At least according to according to Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations. So its not a new idea even if it is new to most Irish "investors". Said pensioner may have to trade down to a smaller abode.

RichardAnd wrote: »

I'm happy to pay tax and to pay for utilities but something about property tax just irks me. If someone owns a house, no mortgage, I don't think it's really right that they have to pay tax on it. Why should you pay for what you own?

It's similar to a poll tax; except that its variable in that you can choose a more expensive or a cheap abode. Renters will also pay indirectly. Everyone uses public services including those living self sufficiently and "opting out" of the system, if they exist. Even if its just to know the Gardai are there for you, on call as it were.

K-9

Don't see a problem, especially if you qualify for First Time Buyer Tax Relief of up to €4,000 a year.

Dreambiz

The Irish Times - Monday, July 19, 2010

MINISTER FOR Finance Brian Lenihan has said that while all options are being considered for December’s budget, there are problems with capital taxation because of the huge reduction in the value of property.

There was renewed speculation last week that a property tax could be imminent following the publication of an International Monetary Fund (IMF) report showing the Department of Finance told visiting IMF officials in May that a flat-rate property tax was under consideration.

Read the rest here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0719/1224275020260.html

Dreambiz

Head The Wall wrote: »

Dreambiz, I'm surprised you don't know what the property tax you paid in the states went toward.

That's a rather strange thing to be surprised about because I never stated I didn't know. And that's irrelevant anyway.

My point is that I think a residential property tax is ethically wrong. Once someone has paid for their home (and land) it should be theirs free and clear, period.

It's a matter of respect and it sets the tone for the entire country.

Do the people own the land or the Government? If someone is continually in debt to the Government for their home EVEN AFTER THEIR HOME IS PAID FOR, what does that say about our values?

I don't want it and if you don't either we all need to make our voices heard. The time is now before there's too much more consideration of this madness in the Government.

Head The Wall

The way you were explaining it was scaremongering. I was correcting you as they may have the same name but they will fulfil two very dufferent functions.

Let people make their choices on it with merit.

amacca

danbohan wrote: »

the current financial situation in this country is that we are borrowing billions at intrest rates near to 6% , we are broke , their is no option but to bring in property taxes in some form .taxes had to be paid on property here long after the english left (we cant blame them much as i would like !}and they should never have been removed . so pony up , partys over good time had by all, now pay the bill .

Have to disagree with that, personally I had a pretty bad time during bubble as I watched coffee shops charge between 3-4 euros for crappucinos, cost of a houses increase year on year making it impossible to own a home without taking on debt of truly epic proportions, manners and customer service become a thing of the past and most of the things I liked about this country go to hell in a grubby avaricious handbasket...........I agree that its inescapable but youll understand if I feel particularly aggrieved that I have to pay for that **** party with particularly objectionable guests I wasn't invited to, couldn't crash and didn't particularly enjoy living next door to and later found out wasn't really all that good anyway.


would like to echo another posters opinion that they would prefer if we paid for the party in other ways, eg: water charges based on usage, increase in income tax etc

would also think that social welfare could be reduced so we don't have to pay as much.....given that there is such a small difference in net income between single income family and a family on the dole......social welfare should be a support in times of difficulty not a way of life. not talking about punishing those really in need btw (sick, disabled)

Also wonder what OP thinks of not taxing a persons principal private residence but instead increasing the second home tax.....can see how this would if it developed into a trend lead to properties flooding the market but wondering if it wouldn't go some way towards curing the "field" mentality another poster mentioned.

amacca

Head The Wall wrote: »

Until we know how it is going to be implemented we can't say what it is going to be. I feel it should be tied in some way to a BER rating, e.g it would incentivise people to build houses more efficiently and more ecologically. It would also reward them for carrying out eco improvements by reducing the tax in lieu of improvements carried out. This would only be one facet of the method for determining the level of tax.

I can see the benefits of linking property tax to BER ratings and I know where your coming from but I can also see how a property tax tied to BER ratings could also be very unfair.

Taking extremes, but also in my experience, a lot of the better off more affluent people I know have the more modern/improved/well insulated/energy efficient houses whereas for the less well off people it can come down to a choice of wearing more coats and using less fuel...where is the sense in charging them more tax, they will simply have less money to spend on home improvements that might result in a long term reduction in dependence on fossil fuels etc.

Head The Wall

amacca wrote: »

I can see the benefits of linking property tax to BER ratings and I know where your coming from but I can also see how a property tax tied to BER ratings could also be very unfair.

Taking extremes, but also in my experience, a lot of the better off more affluent people I know have the more modern/improved/well insulated/energy efficient houses whereas for the less well off people it can come down to a choice of wearing more coats and using less fuel...where is the sense in charging them more tax, they will simply have less money to spend on home improvements that might result in a long term reduction in dependence on fossil fuels etc.

BER would only be one part of determining the tax though and it should indirectly excourage landlords to improve the insulation in their houses.

Who here has changed rental property recently and asked for BER certs and used these in deciding on a property.

Kintarō Hattori

amacca wrote: »

Have to disagree with that, personally I had a pretty bad time during bubble as I watched coffee shops charge between 3-4 euros for crappucinos, cost of a houses increase year on year making it impossible to own a home without taking on debt of truly epic proportions, manners and customer service become a thing of the past and most of the things I liked about this country go to hell in a grubby avaricious handbasket...........I agree that its inescapable but youll understand if I feel particularly aggrieved that I have to pay for that **** party with particularly objectionable guests I wasn't invited to, couldn't crash and didn't particularly enjoy living next door to and later found out wasn't really all that good anyway.

Couldn't agree with you more. I worked hard and saved during the boom as did my missus. We rented and on more than one occasion looked at buying a house but the prices were astronomical and we felt they couldn't be sustained. As she's Polish we looked at buying an apartment in Poland which we see as a long term investment. There's family there and we visit several times a year. It's also possible thatwe could retire there in the future.

After buying there we saved again and have started to look at buying a house here now that prices have fallen again. Finances aren't as healthy as they once were but we could manage a basic home just fine. I have to say though the thought of a property tax is a disincentive to buying and just seems unfair. A home should be yours and untouchable. I don't mind paying taxes elsewhere just not on what would be my home.

amacca

Head The Wall wrote: »

BER would only be one part of determining the tax though and it should indirectly excourage landlords to improve the insulation in their houses.

Who here has changed rental property recently and asked for BER certs and used these in deciding on a property.

fair enough! its just the more elements there are in this tax, the harder it is to implement, the more "assessors" you need and the more people have to paid and the higher the resulting tax is.... so sooner or later average Joe homeowner truly becomes the Indian and everybody else will have to be paid before hes allowed exist, and it will probably still be unfair after all that......or something:)

I went to a number of viewings of houses for sale (not rent) after the BER certs were supposed to be mandatory and the auctioneers seemed reluctant to even acknowledge they existed...went recently and was shown one for the house without asking and told by another it would be done if I decided to buy??? not much use if your making your decision to purchase in part on the basis of how supposedly efficient the house is.

think its another racket tbh and cant believe how quickly a mini industry seems to have sprung up around getting a BER, cant believe how much they charge either for what seems to me to be a very basic assessment and a couple of hours of their time at very most, thanks for my piece of paper and your recommendations mr man maybe I should get into this business.

Dreambiz

Head The Wall wrote: »

The way you were explaining it was scaremongering. I was correcting you as they may have the same name but they will fulfil two very dufferent functions.

I explained it like I experienced it and see it. It matters not to me what it is called or what the money goes for (that's not really accurate, I care a lot) but my point is that doing so will destabilise the one thing that should remain sacred and stable - someone's home.

The concept of turning one's home into government revenue by implementing a form of 'never-ending rent' should scare anyone.

Head The Wall

There is a direct correlation between the amount of property tax you pay and the reputation of the town you are in. The less you pay the worse the reputation of the town for education, police, fire, medical etc. This is what I experienced while I was there, may have been different in California.

Rented Mule

Head The Wall wrote: »

There is a direct correlation between the amount of property tax you pay and the reputation of the town you are in. The less you pay the worse the reputation of the town for education, police, fire, medical etc. This is what I experienced while I was there, may have been different in California.

There is another reason for this. It keeps out the 'undesirables' in the minds of the people living there.

Head The Wall

It also encourages people to make a go of their life so they can live somewhere nice that they choose. I think it is a good system

Dreambiz

Even if those things are true - which I don't believe they are - again, it's missing the point I was trying to make.

That is, that people deserve to be at peace in their homes. It should be the one place where they can be free from fees/penalties/taxes. 'A man's home is his castle' will never be true if there's a residential property tax implemented.

There are many creative ways to finance everything else while leaving this alone. It's a cheap shot that politicians use to get cash. It's an insult and it's a one-way street. Once this kind of tax is in the system, it will always be there - and rising all the time.

P. Breathnach

Dreambiz wrote: »

...
That is, that people deserve to be at peace in their homes. It should be the one place where they can be free from fees/penalties/taxes....

That's not a fundamental principle for society: it's just your wish.

I could just as easily assert that I wish to enjoy my car without having to pay taxes in relation to it.

Dreambiz

Dreambiz wrote: »

I too see the general need but I think a person's home should be off-limits. We should all consider it sacred - and safe from the ever-intruding tentacles of government.

One place that is safe, our homes.

That does not seem too much to ask. Take it from anywhere else, just not that.

the home isnt safe sure its local govt who decide where and exactly just what can be your "home".

Dreambiz

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's not a fundamental principle for society: it's just your wish.

Of course it's my wish. It's my wish for it to become a fundamental principle of society and I think the reasoning behind having being at peace in one's home is a sound one.

Our world is what we make it, the values we hold and assert. I'm suggesting people consider what their values are in this regard and make them known - before someone else does it for you.

P. Breathnach

Dreambiz wrote: »

Of course it's my wish. It's my wish for it to become a fundamental principle of society and I think the reasoning behind having being at peace in one's home is a sound one....

It reads to me like pleading your own interest.

I'd give more priority to other things -- for example, trying to ensure that everybody actually has a home.

Dreambiz

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd give more priority to other things -- for example, trying to ensure that everybody actually has a home.

That is a false either/or choice. We can work for both.

alex73

Every country in Europe has property tax,... in England you have to pay council tax.

Lets face it.... One way or the other the goverment will get the money out of us.

I only hope its reasonable (say 300 euros a year for 1300 sq f house)

but lets be honest, tax us they will... be it property or higher taxes elsewhere.

Pittens

alex73 wrote: »

Every country in Europe has property tax,... in England you have to pay council tax.

Lets face it.... One way or the other the goverment will get the money out of us.

I only hope its reasonable (say 300 euros a year for 1300 sq f house)

but lets be honest, tax us they will... be it property or higher taxes elsewhere.

Yeah. The council tax is in fact an occupiers tax. I am all for a property tax but it should be on the wealth ( it is effectively a wealth tax) and therefore not on the house cost but it's equity. Plan to spend more as you age, or sell the house.

Heroditas

Asha wrote: »

Hi
As someone has mentioned before a residential property tax is needed for local services, police,council etc.

What does my income tax go towards then?
I already pay to have my bins collected. I pay for my electricity and gas and soon I'll have to pay for water.
We're led to believe that motor tax is used to pay for local services.
Why do I have to pay a second time for something that is being provided appallingly already?

Rented Mule

alex73 wrote: »

I only hope its reasonable (say 300 euros a year for 1300 sq f house)

I am in the States with a 3400sq ft house, and my taxes are in the area of $11,000 per year.

Head The Wall

Rented Mule wrote: »

I am in the States with a 3400sq ft house, and my taxes are in the area of $11,000 per year.

Will people read the threads before posting and stop confusing Property tax in the states with what it will be here.