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Hospital wards closing, staff let go - what a country???

  • 27-07-2010 11:12AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭


    Hi

    I heard on the radio Letterkenny General Hospital are closing 2 wards and letting 100 staff go. One of the staff was on the radio there saying she knew nothing until she was called in this morning and was told she is being let go. She was on a temporary contract for the last 5 years.

    I'd guess that more hospitals around the country will follow suit.

    This is the inevitable fall out from the banking crisis and the governments mismanagement of the country over the last 15 years. People's health will suffer.

    Should people tolerate this? I always thought people's health was more important than anything else..... maybe the government don't see it this way.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Whilst I have sympathy for those who will be out of a job, it is unfortunately necessary to close hospital wards. We have too many small hospitals scattered throughout the country and these simply cost us money we don't have.

    As for people's health well this is sadly a case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Most likely though, the next few years will see the end of small hospitals that will be amalgamated into several larger ones. Much cheaper and much more efficient.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    But as usual its done back to front. They will close wards and let staff go without first increasing the services in the nearest larger hospital. The queues will get longer and people will suffer. But that won't bother mary harney or this government.... so long as anglo gets their 10 billion!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Why do people keep starting up threads that are basically the same as active threads? The debate here will just follow the same line as the Public sector needs more pay cuts thread. Me and Head the Wall will say we wouldnt have to get rid of these staff if we didnt have to pay them so much, while Riskymove and opinion guy will argue that the doctors deserve their salaries. Same thing over and over again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    changes wrote: »
    But as usual its done back to front. They will close wards and let staff go without first increasing the services in the nearest larger hospital. The queues will get longer and people will suffer. But that won't bother mary harney or this government.... so long as anglo gets their 10 billion!


    Never mind Anglo, the reason cuts are being made is because of our deficit. Every year, we're borrowing almost as much as we gave anglo just to keep the country ticking over.

    As to your remark about this government. Well I'm not a FF supporter but I will tell you that FG would probably close the same hospital. Closing hospitals, not building schools and making other cuts is just something that has to be done. No matter who is in power, these unpopular actions will have to be taken.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Why do people keep starting up threads that are basically the same as active threads? The debate here will just follow the same line as the Public sector needs more pay cuts thread. Me and Head the Wall will say we wouldnt have to get rid of these staff if we didnt have to pay them so much, while Riskymove and opinion guy will argue that the doctors deserve their salaries. Same thing over and over again.


    Isn't that just about every thread on these boards ;)

    Twas them Bankers what done it!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    As to your remark about this government. Well I'm not a FF supporter but I will tell you that FG would probably close the same hospital. Closing hospitals, not building schools and making other cuts is just something that has to be done. No matter who is in power, these unpopular actions will have to be taken.

    I can't see Letterkenny General Hospital being closed. As for anglo, 10 billion is a fair chunk of money so it can't just be set aside as a non issue.

    I'm beginning to think we are incapable of governing ourselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,780 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    as ever its easier to close wards and let contract staff go
    the real problem is that the hse is totally top heavy with admin staff
    remember getting rid of the health boards and efficiency savings that were to be made - it never happened not one person let go
    and as its letterkenny hospital remember all those FF idiots the people up here keep voting for well its there doing and not one should be re-elected (but that will never happen they'll still vote for mcdaid, coughlan gallagher and the rest )

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    changes wrote: »
    This is the inevitable fall out from the banking crisis and the governments mismanagement of the country over the last 15 years. People's health will suffer.
    Yes, the raises were way out of line with what was available making it to expensive to keep wards open.
    Should people tolerate this? I always thought people's health was more important than anything else..... maybe the government don't see it this way.
    Why not? If the governmentt that you are blaming would try to ratify the problem by adjusting the salaries to the appropiate level you'd be screaming bloody murder about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭dean21


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Never mind Anglo, the reason cuts are being made is because of our deficit. Every year, we're borrowing almost as much as we gave anglo just to keep the country ticking over.

    As to your remark about this government. Well I'm not a FF supporter but I will tell you that FG would probably close the same hospital. Closing hospitals, not building schools and making other cuts is just something that has to be done. No matter who is in power, these unpopular actions will have to be taken.

    So as people die on trolleys while our Td's are still overpaid and are still getting travel expenses to go to work and are on holiday for 3 months
    Why the f**K are they getting travel expenses
    Like I know they have not a brain cell but I am sure they new where the Dail was before they went for election
    And don’t forget Harney spend 36k partying around new zeland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭dean21


    Nody wrote: »
    Yes, the raises were way out of line with what was available making it to expensive to keep wards open.

    Why not? If the governmentt that you are blaming would try to ratify the problem by adjusting the salaries to the appropiate level you'd be screaming bloody murder about it.
    same old story
    lock it now


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    dean21 wrote: »
    So as people die on trolleys while our Td's are still overpaid and are still getting travel expenses to go to work and are on holiday for 3 months
    Why the f**K are they getting travel expenses
    Like I know they have not a brain cell but I am sure they new where the Dail was before they went for election
    And don’t forget Harney spend 36k partying around new zeland

    same old story
    lock it now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    and as its letterkenny hospital remember all those FF idiots the people up here keep voting for well its there doing and not one should be re-elected (but that will never happen they'll still vote for mcdaid, coughlan gallagher and the rest )

    Jim McDaid was expelled from FF


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    changes wrote: »
    Should people tolerate this? I always thought people's health was more important than anything else..... maybe the government don't see it this way.

    No, placating the unions seems their most important policy... This is the front line outcome of standing behind unions while the scant resources we have get pissed away on HSE admin and FAS follies etc. If changes can't be made, then cuts have to come from somewhere.. This is the result..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    So the workload for all The HSE admin staff and management gets less and less every day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    The reality is we need to assess the hospital needs for the country in general. We should be looking at a major hospital closure plan. We currently have about 35 acute general hospitals in Ireland. On top of this we have specialist hospitals eg, psychiatric hospitals, maternity, paediatric etc and community hospitals. Realistically we should be looking at closing half these hospitals. That however will not happen.

    Instead budgets are decided on a per hospital basis. So the hospital gets its individual budget slashed so has to close wards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    Welease wrote: »
    No, placating the unions seems their most important policy...

    No, closing wards and letting staff go is going head to head with the unions not placating them,
    Welease wrote: »
    This is the front line outcome of standing behind unions while the scant resources we have get pissed away on HSE admin and FAS follies etc. If changes can't be made, then cuts have to come from somewhere.. This is the result..

    This is the outcome of mismanaging the boom and pouring money into the banks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    changes wrote: »
    No, closing wards and letting staff go is going head to head with the unions not placating them,



    This is the outcome of mismanaging the boom and pouring money into the banks

    People can continue to blame the banks.. will that change anything?

    Going forward, the CP agreement offerred protection to the swathes of unnecessary admin staff across the HSE.. As they won't be touched, the cuts have to come from somewhere so wards will be closed and temp staff (like the ones you mentioned) removed..

    Some wards probably should be closed, and some should probably stay open.. but the options seem pretty limited atm (and there seems to be lack of an overall plan for the provision of services)..

    Look, people can't have it both ways.. If they want job protection for permanant PS employees then the temp ones will be removed. If they want to ensure that none of the middle management and admin staff get offloaded (as suggested by McCarthy and other reports), then the frontline staff will take the hit.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    changes wrote: »
    No, closing wards and letting staff go is going head to head with the unions not placating them,
    Ask the union leaders this; we can cut your salaries for your staff by 30% or close a ward and see their choice (*hint* it is not the second option).
    This is the outcome of mismanaging the boom and pouring money into the banks
    The "poured money into banks" arguments gets old; it adds up to a pittence a year compared to the raises handed out over the years (inc. the cost of pension, benefits etc.) to the PS over the last decade.


  • Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Whilst I have sympathy for those who will be out of a job, it is unfortunately necessary to close hospital wards. We have too many small hospitals scattered throughout the country and these simply cost us money we don't have.



    nah i think we have too many banks scattered throught the country ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    OMD wrote: »
    The reality is we need to assess the hospital needs for the country in general. We should be looking at a major hospital closure plan. We currently have about 35 acute general hospitals in Ireland. On top of this we have specialist hospitals eg, psychiatric hospitals, maternity, paediatric etc and community hospitals. Realistically we should be looking at closing half these hospitals. That however will not happen.

    Instead budgets are decided on a per hospital basis. So the hospital gets its individual budget slashed so has to close wards.
    Don't forget the new one that is to be built in Kenmare


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    Don't forget the new one that is to be built in Kenmare

    Now that was a farce.

    The problem with closing hospitals, particurlarly closing the letterkenny hospital is that the nearest A & E would be 2 hours away for many people (sligo). That is not acceptable.

    Plenty of scope to close hospitals in the east and dublin area i'd imagine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    changes wrote: »
    Now that was a farce.

    The problem with closing hospitals, particurlarly closing the letterkenny hospital is that the nearest A & E would be 2 hours away for many people (sligo). That is not acceptable.

    Plenty of scope to close hospitals in the east and dublin area i'd imagine.


    Some people will always be far from a hospital. Despite what the residents of Bally-middleOfNoWhere might want, we can't just open up a hospital every 50 miles.

    You are correct that people in the cities have an advantage in that hospitals are close. I myself live only a 25 min walk from a large hospital but that's just the reality of living in a city which has plenty of drawbacks too.

    In an ideal world, we would just smash the HSE apart and build up a new system that is efficient and cheaper but that's not going to happen. What we must do, and what will happen, is that the books will be balanced no matter what. The money that allowed us to build up such a bloated service is gone so we can cut back or let the IMF do it for us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Some people will always be far from a hospital. Despite what the residents of Bally-middleOfNoWhere might want, we can't just open up a hospital every 50 miles.

    They won't be 2 hours away and that is not acceptable

    Get your map of ireland out and you'll see that we have a general hospital within a 50 miles of almost everyone in the country and thats the way it should stay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    changes wrote: »
    They won't be 2 hours away and that is not acceptable

    Get your map of ireland out and you'll see that we have a general hospital within a 50 miles of almost everyone in the country and thats the way it should stay.


    Perhaps it should stay like that but you see the problem is that it can't because we're broke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The problem with closing hospitals, particurlarly closing the letterkenny hospital is that the nearest A & E would be 2 hours away for many people (sligo). That is not acceptable.

    There is a pretty decent A&E in Derry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    changes wrote: »
    They won't be 2 hours away and that is not acceptable

    Get your map of ireland out and you'll see that we have a general hospital within a 50 miles of almost everyone in the country and thats the way it should stay.


    The money is there, but it's being spent in the most rediculous places..

    - The 100 million wasted on branded drugs.. how many wards would that have paid for?
    - The 1000's (as per McCarthy) report of unnecessary Admin staff in the HSE. how many wards could stay open if they were gotten rid off?
    - Decentralisation (apparently, haven't looked to confirm, and I'm sure its not that simple) has cost 250K per head so far. The more we spend shuffling people around the less we spend elsewhere..
    - FAS training centre's built in the arse end of nowhere with no transport links and 14 students..
    - Kickbacks to unions - That would have paid for that ward for the next god knows how many years..

    etc etc etc....

    Absolutely its not acceptable. But the HSE could solve the problem itself.. but the will just isn't there (and thats not the fault of the banks)...

    Edit - I think it was Noonan on Newstalk last week saying we spend 5K per person on health whereas Holland spends 3.5K and it held up as a model system... So the funding is there, and the government are committed it seems, the fund just don't seem to be getting used properly (and the Ombudsman was hardly glowing in her assessment either)..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭doc_17


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Whilst I have sympathy for those who will be out of a job, it is unfortunately necessary to close hospital wards. We have too many small hospitals scattered throughout the country and these simply cost us money we don't have.

    As for people's health well this is sadly a case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Most likely though, the next few years will see the end of small hospitals that will be amalgamated into several larger ones. Much cheaper and much more efficient.

    Are you saying that letterkenny is a small hospital?
    ardmacha wrote: »
    There is a pretty decent A&E in Derry.

    Yeah there's also a lot of other wonderful things in Derry too but the people of Donegal pay taxes to the Irish Government the same as everywhere else and should not have to rely on a foreign government to provide basic health services.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Are you saying that letterkenny is a small hospital?



    Yeah there's also a lot of other wonderful things in Derry too but the people of Donegal pay taxes to the Irish Government the same as everywhere else and should not have to rely on a foreign government to provide basic health services.
    A lot of them pay their car tax in the north, does this entitle them to use their services than?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭doc_17


    A lot of them pay their car tax in the north, does this entitle them to use their services than?

    "Them" might use the roads in the north. I don't really know what point you are trying to make. Sorry


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭yermanoffthetv


    Welease wrote: »
    Going forward, the CP agreement offerred protection to the swathes of unnecessary admin staff across the HSE.. As they won't be touched, the cuts have to come from somewhere so wards will be closed and temp staff (like the ones you mentioned) removed..

    Absolutely. The whole system needs a shake up. Sack the lot of them and rehire on a strict essential needs baisis from the ground up. Theres so many layers of underworked and overpayed middle and top management there that are so embedded in the system and are unwilling to accept change, that the structure of the HSE is incapabable of deivering an efficient(or transparent) service. Of course that kind of radical thinking is still punishable by flogging in the dohc :rolleyes:


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