Overtaking legally on motorway

sesna

Just wondering about legality of overtaking on a motorway.

If I'm travelling along at 100km/p/h in the leftmost lane of four lanes (say for example between the N4 and N3 junctions), and if I see some guy hogging the rightmost overtaking lane at 80km/p/h, am I expected to change lanes 3 times to get over to lane 1 just so I overtake on the right, as outlined in Rules of the Road ? :eek:

This would also be late in the evening when there is no slow-moving traffic queues.

If he is in the right most overtaking lane then there is no lane for you to overtake him in to his right. Anyway you can overtake slower moving traffic than the lane you are in by staying in your own lane so it doesn't matter.

whippet

yawn ...... never thought this argument / discussion would every be raised here.

Yes in theory it's illegal, but in practice just get on with it and worry about more important things in life. The guards hopefully will deal with this rogue driver at some stage and he might learn to practice in the correct manner.

Until then, just drive on and worry about yourself.

R.O.R

sesna wrote: »

Just wondering about legality of overtaking on a motorway.

If I'm travelling along at 100km/p/h in the leftmost lane of four lanes (say for example between the N4 and N3 junctions), and if I see some guy hogging the rightmost overtaking lane at 80km/p/h, am I expected to change lanes 3 times to get over to lane 1 just so I overtake on the right, as outlined in Rules of the Road ? :eek:

This would also be late in the evening when there is no slow-moving traffic queues.

If you are on the M50 in the very left most lane, it's a slip road so you don't have to move out of it.

sesna

whippet wrote: »

yawn ...... never thought this argument / discussion would every be raised here.

Yes in theory it's illegal, but in practice just get on with it and worry about more important things in life. The guards hopefully will deal with this rogue driver at some stage and he might learn to practice in the correct manner.

Until then, just drive on and worry about yourself.

I'm a very law-abiding citizen, and would not like to travel in contravention of our excellent road traffic laws.

sesna

R.O.R wrote: »

If you are on the M50 in the very left most lane, it's a slip road so you don't have to move out of it.

There are four lanes when you cross the bridge where the old west link toll plaza is. This is far in advance of any signs for N3 exit. Or if you like, the question applies to 3 lanes and being in the leftmost lane.

L1011

sesna wrote: »

There are four lanes when you cross the bridge where the old west link toll plaza is. This is far in advance of any signs for N3 exit. Or if you like, the question applies to 3 lanes and being in the leftmost lane.

The leftmost lane there is a weaving/slip lane also.

Anywhere on the M50 with 4 lanes, at least the leftmost is weaving/slip at all times. Hence the far wider, shorter lines.

sesna

MYOB wrote: »

The leftmost lane there is a weaving/slip lane also.

Anywhere on the M50 with 4 lanes, at least the leftmost is weaving/slip at all times. Hence the far wider, shorter lines.

Okay as I said you can apply this situation to 3 lanes also - are you expected to move over to lane 1 to overtake someone travelling far below the speed-limit when you're in the leftmost lane travelling at 100km/p/h or even at 90km/p/h. This situation actually arises very freqently, even when there is low traffic density on the road late at night (hence slow moving traffic queues and left overtaking would not apply). I have noticed many posters in the motor forum advocating right only overtaking at all costs on many threads.

Anan1

RoverJames wrote: »

Anyway you can overtake slower moving traffic than the lane you are in by staying in your own lane so it doesn't matter.

Only in slow-moving traffic, if they're turning right, or if you're turning left. Bizarre as it may sound, there is otherwise no legal way of overtaking the car in the OP's post.

2yung2adm

RoverJames wrote: »

If he is in the right most overtaking lane then there is no lane for you to overtake him in to his right. Anyway you can overtake slower moving traffic than the lane you are in by staying in your own lane so it doesn't matter.

You cannot legally overtake on the motorway on the left except when traffic is moving very slowly-before you say anything as regards the definition of slowly there has been much precedent on it and a judge will not have any doubt on the meaning of slowly-and your traffic is moving faster than the traffic on the right.
All other rules relate to lanes basically you may over take on the left if the vehicle ahead intends to turn right and has indicated its intention to do so and you intend to go straight ahead or turn left after overtaking.

CiniO

RoverJames wrote: »

If he is in the right most overtaking lane then there is no lane for you to overtake him in to his right. Anyway you can overtake slower moving traffic than the lane you are in by staying in your own lane so it doesn't matter.

Yes, but only if traffic is traveling in slow moving queues. Otherwise you must not overtake on the left on motorway.

CiniO

whippet wrote: »

yawn ...... never thought this argument / discussion would every be raised here.

Yes in theory it's illegal, but in practice just get on with it and worry about more important things in life. The guards hopefully will deal with this rogue driver at some stage and he might learn to practice in the correct manner.

Until then, just drive on and worry about yourself.

Heh nice advice.
And then Irish motorways are what they are - roads full of mess.

Try this in Germany - we'll see how far will you go?

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

Only in slow-moving traffic, if they're turning right, or if you're turning left. Bizarre as it may sound, there is otherwise no legal way of overtaking the car in the OP's post.

Someone turning right or you turning left only applies on normal roads.
On motorways you can only overtake on the left when traveling in slow moving queues of traffic.

CiniO

R.O.R wrote: »

If you are on the M50 in the very left most lane, it's a slip road so you don't have to move out of it.

You don't have to move out of it, but you also must not overtake anyone on this lane.

maybebabie

There should be a motorway part of the driving test so everyone knows the etiquette. Whether I'm in one of the other lanes, or behind them, I can't stand it when a driver stays driving in the overtaking lane, when there's room to move back in to the left after overtaking.

opinion guy

sesna wrote: »

Just wondering about legality of overtaking on a motorway.

If I'm travelling along at 100km/p/h in the leftmost lane of four lanes (say for example between the N4 and N3 junctions), and if I see some guy hogging the rightmost overtaking lane at 80km/p/h, am I expected to change lanes 3 times to get over to lane 1 just so I overtake on the right, as outlined in Rules of the Road ? :eek:

This would also be late in the evening when there is no slow-moving traffic queues.

Asking this question here.
You're new here aren't you ?:D

sesna

opinion guy wrote: »

Asking this question here.
You're new here aren't you ?:D

Nope just seen other threads discussing legalities of safe driving manouvers, such as breaking speed limit when overtaking and thought it was the appropriate place.

CiniO

maybebabie wrote: »

There should be a motorway part of the driving test so everyone knows the etiquette. Whether I'm in one of the other lanes, or behind them, I can't stand it when a driver stays driving in the overtaking lane, when there's room to move back in to the left after overtaking.

Use your flash

maybebabie

if anyone flashes at me, i deliberately won't move out of the way lol

CiniO

maybebabie wrote: »

if anyone flashes at me, i deliberately won't move out of the way lol

Even if it's a blue garda flash? :P

Anyway - if you you lanes correctly no one should flash at you.
I sometimes use short flash for someone driving on the right lane, while left is empty. Usually it's a person whose mind is somewhere else, and a little flash brings him/her back to the road, in particular - left lane. It works.

I see much less danger in little flash, than in overtaking on the left.

maybebabie

okay, if it's a blue garda light flashing behind me, i'm not long pulling over lol

CiniO

maybebabie wrote: »

okay, if it's a blue garda light flashing behind me, i'm not long pulling over lol

Why don't you pull over to left lane otherwise?

maybebabie

i always do pull back over to the left after i overtake

CiniO

maybebabie wrote: »

i always do pull back over to the left after i overtake

So whole our chat doesn't have too much sense.
If you pull left after overtaking, no one should flash at you.

maybebabie

- sorry i'm distracted by UFO articles at the same time as looking at here
- i've been flashed on motorways while i'm driving in the overtaking lane, by tailgaters desperate to get past at all costs and at high speed. I would be overtaking too myself at the time, and would have to wait until i have a clear space to move back into on the left. Some drivers have very little patience and want to get where they're going yesterday! I have a bit of a stubborn streak and i do admit to driving slightly slower on purpose if another driver behind me flashes me in his impatience to get past.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No it isn't.
As was said before, it's only legal to overtake on motorway on the left, when there is slow moving traffic in queues.

CiniO

maybebabie wrote: »

- sorry i'm distracted by UFO articles at the same time as looking at here

- i've been flashed on motorways while i'm driving in the overtaking lane, by tailgaters desperate to get past at all costs and at high speed. I would be overtaking too myself at the time, and would have to wait until i have a clear space to move back into on the left. Some drivers have very little patience and want to get where they're going yesterday! I have a bit of a stubborn streak and i do admit to driving slightly slower on purpose if another driver behind me flashes me in his impatience to get past.

That's not a professional driver behavior, but that's understandable.

When I see someone who is in real hurry and try's to overtake me every possible way, and flashes his lights, I always assume he might have a good reason.
Probably in 99.9% cases he doesn't. But there might be this one case where this person let's say is bringing something dying to the hospital, or trying to catch someone who just killed someone, or maybe it's undercover guards with broken blue siren who are trying to do them work.
I know that most of these cases are like 1 to million, but I always assume it might be one of them.

2yung2adm

CiniO wrote: »

No it isn't.
As was said before, it's only legal to overtake on motorway on the left, when there is slow moving traffic in queues.

It is a grey area but I would have to agree with Cini0.

It is accepted that you do not overtake(undertake) on the left except as has been outlined. Furthermore the act does not state thay you may overtake on the left where there is an auxilliary lane, therefore there is no permissioin given or implied.

The definition of an auxilliary lane on a motorway is "a lane along a motorway that joins two slip roads commencing at the entrance slip road and leading to the following exit slip road" this implies that it is part of the motorway.

Overtaking on the inside can lead to a charge of dangerous driving, however it is my opinion that if the auxilliary lane was defined with a continious white line for a portion of its length it would not constitute dangerous driving if undertaking in that portion of the lane as the vehicles on the outer lanes could not cross the continious white line and be taken by surprise by a faster moving vehicle on the left.

djimi

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I dont know if its legal or not, but my attitude is that if youre on a slip road exit then there is a chance that car that you are passing might swing onto the slip road without looking (assume that all drivers are morons until they prove otherwise). Safer just to keep your distance tbh; its only a few yards off the slip road until its safe anyway.

R.O.R

djimi wrote: »

I dont know if its legal or not, but my attitude is that if youre on a slip road exit then there is a chance that car that you are passing might swing onto the slip road without looking (assume that all drivers are morons until they prove otherwise). Safer just to keep your distance tbh; its only a few yards off the slip road until its safe anyway.

That's unless it's about 2km and you've a long line of truck's doing 80km/h on the inside lane.

Decisions then are:

Slow the auxillary lane / slip road down to 80km/h for everyone using it.

Overtake the trucks in lane 2 and force your way through lane 1 in to the slip road at the last minute.

Drive at 100km/h in the slip road and try to avoid those who do the above.

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Heh nice advice.
And then Irish motorways are what they are - roads full of mess.

Try this in Germany - we'll see how far will you go?

In Germany they would drive up yer mans arse in the overtaking lanes while flashing lights until he got out of the way.

Bellemz

Ireland is one of the few european countries where people still 'sit' in the right hand lane. If you did it (obv left hand in this case) in Germany/France/Italy, drivers would react aggressively until you MOVED.

Irish motorways are HILARIOUS & DANGEROUS...you honestly seem to get places quicker when you undertake, weaving in and out of the 2/3 lanes, which is dangerous, ridiculous and illegal. Most drivers 'sit' in the middle lane when there are 3...to avoid having to deal with merging cars as those who stay in the left often find themselves trapped and unable to yield to merging cars as the people in the middle lane have boxed them in by driving SLOWER than they are...

I propose different speed limits for different lanes like in Italy or a driver cop on course lol...

djimi

R.O.R wrote: »

That's unless it's about 2km and you've a long line of truck's doing 80km/h on the inside lane.

Decisions then are:

Slow the auxillary lane / slip road down to 80km/h for everyone using it.

Overtake the trucks in lane 2 and force your way through lane 1 in to the slip road at the last minute.

Drive at 100km/h in the slip road and try to avoid those who do the above.

If youre referring to the likes of the auxiliary lanes on the M50 then Im even less likely to undertake. I have lost count of how many times Ive nearly been taken out by idiots who just swing into that lane without indicating or looking where they are going. Usually as you approach the exit, but not exclusively. I get where you are coming from but its still something Im very wary of doing.

CiniO

The whole thing of not overtaking from the left on the morotway is to help driviers.
If no did it (overtake on left) then changing lanes from right to left would be much easier. It would also encourage drivers to stick to the left.

Now we have radiculous situations when someone is on right hand lane, and even when he want's to change lane to the left, he can't because there's already load of cars overtaking him on this lane.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

In Germany they would drive up yer mans arse in the overtaking lanes while flashing lights until he got out of the way.

And that what people should do in Ireland, instead of overtaking on the left.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

And that what people should do in Ireland, instead of overtaking on the left.

Tailgating is no better than undertaking tbf, and is probably less safe as well. Acting like an obnoxious prick makes you no better than the plank who is planted in the overtaking lane.

Max Power1

djimi wrote: »

Tailgating is no better than undertaking tbf, and is probably less safe as well. Acting like an obnoxious prick makes you no better than the plank who is planted in the overtaking lane.

no, imo its the one thing idiots who sit in the overtaking lane seem to understand - most get out of the way when flashed.

Id say it would help if the "flasher" happened to be driving a relatively new mondeo in light blue!

coolbeans

djimi wrote: »

Tailgating is no better than undertaking tbf, and is probably less safe as well. Acting like an obnoxious prick makes you no better than the plank who is planted in the overtaking lane.

It works beautifully though. I've concluded that too much patience with idiots results in the compounding of idiocy. I drove from St Malo to Berlin for the 2006 World Cup sharing the miles with a buddy of mine who really had no clue how to use motorway lanes. I told him several times to pull over as we frequently had lines of frustrated drivers behind us when he drove. He didn't listen to me and the only thing that worked was the bullying tactics i.e tailgating and flashing, of impatient drivers behind us. We were never undertaken and he quickly learned his lesson.
As I said, if you're too patient with an idiot there is no incentive for him to change.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Tailgating is no better than undertaking tbf, and is probably less safe as well. Acting like an obnoxious prick makes you no better than the plank who is planted in the overtaking lane.

No one mentioned tailgaitng. You can easily flash light at someone without tailgating.

I agree, tailgating is dangerous, flashing light isn't.
Overtaking on the left is very dangerous.

Choice seems to be obvious.

Unless you like to be stock behind someone driving 80km/h on the most right lane for 50 miles.

djimi

If you start to tailgate and flash a driver then you risk panicking them, and panicking someone at 65mph+ is not a smart idea. Its safer just to undertake them and be on your way; while its still not legal if youre going to be impatient then its the lesser of two evils in my opinion.

A lot of people I know will simply ignore some prat who flies up behind them, sitting up their arse with their headlights blaring, so in a lot of cases you are not doing yourself any favours anyway. Ive lost count of the amount of times Im genuinely in the overtaking lane, say overtaking a line of slower moving vehicles, and some idiot flies up behind me at 90mph and starts flashing, expecting me to merge into traffic doing 50mph just because they have no patience. Doesnt make me any more inclined to get out of their way in a hurry...

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

No one mentioned tailgaitng. You can easily flash light at someone without tailgating.

I agree, tailgating is dangerous, flashing light isn't.
Overtaking on the left is very dangerous.

Choice seems to be obvious.

Unless you like to be stock behind someone driving 80km/h on the most right lane for 50 miles.

Oh come off it, how many cars do you ever see on a motorway sitting 50 yards back from a car when they flash them to move? 9 times out of 10 the car behind is usually practically in the back seat of the car ahead when they start flashing. Thats tailgating. I agree, a polite flash as you approach the car is a different thing, but in reality thats not what happens.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Oh come off it, how many cars do you ever see on a motorway sitting 50 yards back from a car when they flash them to move? 9 times out of 10 the car behind is usually practically in the back seat of the car ahead when they start flashing. Thats tailgating. I agree, a polite flash as you approach the car is a different thing, but in reality thats not what happens.

I'm not writing about what people do.
I'm writing about what's the best way to do. And also I'm writing about what I do.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

If you start to tailgate and flash a driver then you risk panicking them, and panicking someone at 65mph+ is not a smart idea. Its safer just to undertake them and be on your way; while its still not legal if youre going to be impatient then its the lesser of two evils in my opinion.

No. I'll never agree that undertaking on the motorway in safer then a flash.
Whole idea of motorway traffic is that cars overtake each other on the right side. That's very simple. You drive left lane, if overtaking change lane to one more on right, overtake, if needed you change lane to more right (depends how many lanes there is), and when finished overtaking you go back to left lane. It's really as simple as that.
If you start overtaking on the left, then someone might have problems to change lane back to left, or even he might crash into you because he might not expect you to be on his left side. Do you know who will be most likely resposible for the accident then - you, not the idiot who didn't look on left mirror. All because you are not allowed to undertake on motorway.
The main rule is that we overtake on the right and everyone should stick to it. Then driving on a motorway will be much nicer and safer.
I wrote it before but i'll repeat it. I feel much safer on German motorway doing 200km/h while other cars go even faster, then on Irish motorway doing 120km/h while other drivers have no clue how to drive on motorway.

Mimikyu

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keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

And that what people should do in Ireland, instead of overtaking on the left.

I'm not saying it works in Germany either, I've moved out into the Overtaking lane to safely overtake trucks while doing around 200km/h and some left lane cruising toolbag flys up the overtaking lane flashing his lights to get out of the way. So you've a choice, sit there or pull in and agressively push on the brakes to slow down to the speed of the vehicle your overtaking.

i.e. I'd be in the overtaking lane overtaking, but wouldn't be overtaking fast enoughfor the gobshíte behind me.

Turbulent Bill

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's compounded by poor road design too, especially where roadworks are in progress. The M50 northbound between the N4 and N3 junctions is a good example. The auxilliary and left hand (lane 3) lanes both become sliproads to the N3 junction, so all of the continuing traffic on the M50 use lanes 1 and 2 (complete with lane 1 blocking, undertaking in lane 2 etc.). The exceptions are people using lane 3 who want to go northbound on the M50 and don't know the road layout / won't read signs, and those using the same lane to undertake the M50 queues, diving in at the last minute before the road splits.

I arrive on the M50 from the Red Cow, and want to turn off at the N3 junction. The obvious choice is to use lane 3 (as I'll be going faster than the merging traffic from the N4 junction), but this puts me in danger from the ignorant and the impatient going northbound. If I use the auxilliary lane I'll probably end up undertaking the dawdlers in lane 3, hold up traffic or get cut up by someone trying to enter the lane.

What should I do?

Anan1

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm not saying it works in Germany either, I've moved out into the Overtaking lane to safely overtake trucks while doing around 200km/h and some left lane cruising toolbag flys up the overtaking lane flashing his lights to get out of the way. So you've a choice, sit there or pull in and agressively push on the brakes to slow down to the speed of the vehicle your overtaking.

i.e. I'd be in the overtaking lane overtaking, but wouldn't be overtaking fast enoughfor the gobshíte behind me.

That happened me there from time to time too - it can generally (but not always) be avoided by watching the mirrors and planning overtakes well in advance. Either that or get a faster car.;)

keithclancy

Anan1 wrote: »

That happened me there from time to time too - it can generally (but not always) be avoided by watching the mirrors and planning overtakes well in advance. Either that or get a faster car.;)

200km is PLENTY fast overtaking a line of trucks, no matter how fast your car. You stand some sort of chance when a truck pulls out.

Its actually more dangerous too pull in and let the guy behind you pass as in one of the vehicles in line in front will see you indicating to pull back in, take it as an opportunity to pull out and then theres a gap between when you pull in and they pull out that the guy flying up the overtaking lane has a very short time to react.

whyulittle

Surely the whole point of the auxiliary lane is to stop cars entering the mainline of the motorway. They are only going to be on until the next exit, and having them go into Lane 1, into Lane 2, overtake the slow moving truck, back into Lane 1, and then back into the Aux Lane defeats their whole purpose.

Anan1

keithclancy wrote: »

200km is PLENTY fast overtaking a line of trucks, no matter how fast your car. You stand some sort of chance when a truck pulls out

That was actually a joke, hence the

keithclancy wrote: »

Its actually more dangerous too pull in and let the guy behind you pass as in one of the vehicles in line in front will see you indicating to pull back in, take it as an opportunity to pull out and then theres a gap between when you pull in and they pull out that the guy flying up the overtaking lane has a very short time to react.

What I meant is that you can sometimes adapt your speed when approaching the trucks so as to either go before the faster car or let them pass first. Of course depending on traffic density this may not be possible, but it does generally help.