Interconnector & Metro North to go ahead, WRC & Navan line shelved

Breezer

As above:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0726/breaking11.html

The Government has announced a six-year €39.43 billion revised capital investment programme today.

...

Metro North and the €2.5 billion Dart underground project are to proceed, but rail links from Dublin to Navan and from Tuam to Claremorris will be put on hold.

Disappointing about the Navan line, but at least the Interconnector is still being built.

Propellerhead

More than a bit of an embarrassment for Noel Dempsey then, seeing as he has put a lot of political capital into this.



http://www.noeldempsey.ie/index.php/local/meath-chronicle-article-on-navan-railminister-confirms-commitment-to-early-delivery

AlekSmart

More than a bit of an embarrassment for Noel Dempsey then, seeing as he has put a lot of political capital into this.

I would suspect this confirmation is the result of some very nifty political footwork by the good Minister Dempsey.

This rather typically Irish postponement of what,in other developed countries,would have been done decades ago,will allow Mr Dempsey and his PPP fixated associates to breathe a little easier.

The decision will of course come as welcome news to those in Minister Dempseys Department who negotiated the PPP Toll Facility arrangements for the M3 Motorway.

This arrangement,dreadfully commercially sensitive as it is,remains a State Secret with those paying for it being required to stump-up and not seek any detailed account of exactly how much the State has guaranteed the Toll Franchise holders over the life of the contract.

Bear in mind that the provision of a Parallell high-speed,high-frequency modern Commuter Rail service would not have had a very positive impact upon the fortunes of the Toll Facility....hardly surprising then that a local TD,not to mention a Minister with direct responsibility for both projects would have presided over such a decision.

We know every detail of the Railway plan down to the cost of the last rivet,however we are largely bereft of the details of the State`s committment to maintain the viability of the Toll Franchisee`s.

This contrast between the two major projects is hardly accidental and therefore this cancellation must come as music to many Political ears...a darn big sigh of relief out the Royal County way....Phhheeeewwww

Naked Lepper

Glad metro north is still going ahead. Its undoubtedly the single most important piece of infrastructure that this country needs at the moment.

robd

Naked Lepper wrote: »

Glad metro north is still going ahead. Its undoubtedly the single most important piece of infrastructure that this country needs at the moment.

The Interconnector (or Dart underground) is actually the most important as it joins up the dots and electrifies a considerable part of the current rail network. Without it Metro North would be another rather standalone piece or infrastructure. It's defiantly important and welcome though, limitations aside.

Was there any mention of the Atlantic Corridor (the motorway/dual carriageway from Waterford to Letterkenny via Cork, Limerick, Galway and Sligo), itself a far more important and sensible project than the WRC that has thankfully been shelved.

paulm17781

robd wrote: »

The Interconnector (or Dart underground) is actually the most important as it joins up the dots and electrifies a considerable part of the current rail network. Without it Metro North would be another rather standalone piece or infrastructure. It's defiantly important and welcome though, limitations aside.

I'd agree, I think the two of them are needed. They were the only "city" projects I really thought had merit.

The Lucan luas was never going to be built, the line options weren't realistic.

I never thought BxD was going to happen. It was an interesting looking project but the fact of it and MN taking similar routes through the city was always being mentioned. I knew which one I'd prefer to get the chop (though they both have their own merits).

Sad to see Navan gone, that's one which should have been done years ago. I suspect the theory of a conflict of interest is quite correct.

dermo88

Of course you can smell the stench of Brown envelopes on dial up Dempsey's watch a mile off. I hope he gets to enjoy the junket when he gets to hide his stash in a nice offshore Bank account on St Patricks Day, far away from the prying eyes of the European Union and the Irish taxman.

Propellerhead

As I always say in these circumstances, who benefits from the shelving of the M3 Parkway - Navan line?

This is a crap decision that will not last a change of Government.

In the meantime, perhaps it would be a matter of public interest to know what individuals and financial institutions benefit from the shelving of the Navan line and gaining a few more tolls in the process.

Judgement Day

The line not proceeding beyond Dunboyne was a done deal months ago as anybody on the Boards will know.



The tunnel under the N25 in Waterford for the toy Waterford & Suir Valley Railway (a legacy from Martin Cullen?); even at the semi-defunct Cavan & Leitrim Railway there is a bridge put in on the N4 Dromod Bypass at the far side of Clooncolry LC in the pathetic hope that the C&L will ever cross the Mohill road, meanwhile on the Navan line the M3 crosses the trackbed on the level!

There is a full thread relating to the scandalous wasting of public money on the M3 project north of Dunboyne and when the line is eventually extended to Navan it is going to cost a shed load more than it should have done. A full thread on the subject here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055330014&page=7 Post#103 from DWcommuter has plenty of pics.

Meantime this pic from Nostradamus (with a slight change of caption) on post #104 says all that needs to be said about the ffffffing Greens contribution. :mad:


Eamon Ryan, John Gormley and Ciaran "Pontius Pilate" Cuffe

AlekSmart

In the meantime, perhaps it would be a matter of public interest to know what individuals and financial institutions benefit from the shelving of the Navan line and gaining a few more tolls in the process.

Absolutely Propellerhead !

The stench of rotting politican coming from this pile of crap is overpowering.
There are more than enough dubious decision making processes involved here to merit some media agency taking a forensic interest.

The first question which requires an immediate answer is "What Is the Amount of Toll Income Guaranteed By This Government" followed by "What is the time-frame of the Guarantee" and in 3rd Position "The Names of the Lead State Negotiators "....Please and thank you !

That is the piece of thread which needs to be pulled.

Once that process starts then the entire septic ball of wool will unravel,but be warned the knitters here are of supremely confident stock and well used to dealing with inquisitorial types who should mind their own business !!

Chuchoter

So is the lucan luas line/metro west shelved (effectively) then?

brandodub

While I am glad to see the interconnecter and Metro North go ahead and they are very much needed the line to Navan is needed too. Kildare and Wicklow have road and rail options that Meath simply does not share. There is a 'critical mass' in Meath too who could easily make the Navan line pay for itself in a very short time.

FF well done on improving inner Dublin infrastructure but the WHOLE eastern region needs equal consideration:mad:

L1011

Judgement Day wrote: »

The tunnel under the N25 in Waterford for the toy Waterford & Suir Valley Railway (a legacy from Martin Cullen?);

I believe there's a further box in one of the approach roads for if it extends further towards Kilmacthomas...

skywalker_208

As usual all the money gets pumped into Dublin and the rest of the country gets shafted!
The shelving of the Navan line is a disgrace. Instead Meath have to wait donkeys years behind the likes of Louth/Kildare to get a huge motorway that nobody is using because of the double shafting of double tolls on a 50 min stretch of road.....
Its a joke in fairness

Sponge Bob

skywalker_208 wrote: »

The shelving of the Navan line is a disgrace.

A bigger joke is that Dempsey knew all along that the M3 would make the line economically impossible to build. Read the special thread on it HERE . Who is IIMII since the password hack lost many boards users in January BTW ????

I wonder if the existing Navan link, via Drogheda, will ever be reconsidered for passenger use?

lord lucan

Karsini wrote: »

I wonder if the existing Navan link, via Drogheda, will ever be reconsidered for passenger use?

Given that the Northern line is struggling to cope with existing services i can't see them ever adding passenger services to the Navan branch. Not to mention that the line from Drogheda to Navan would have to be relaid and Navan station would require a huge refurb to bring it up to operational standard.

lord lucan

lord lucan wrote: »

Given that the Northern line is struggling to cope with existing services i can't see them ever adding passenger services to the Navan branch. Not to mention that the line from Drogheda to Navan would have to be relaid and Navan station would require a huge refurb to bring it up to operational standard.

Good point, the DART has it crippled at this stage.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

The line not proceeding beyond Dunboyne was a done deal months ago as anybody on the Boards will know.



The tunnel under the N25 in Waterford for the toy Waterford & Suir Valley Railway (a legacy from Martin Cullen?); even at the semi-defunct Cavan & Leitrim Railway there is a bridge put in on the N4 Dromod Bypass at the far side of Clooncolry LC in the pathetic hope that the C&L will ever cross the Mohill road, meanwhile on the Navan line the M3 crosses the trackbed on the level!

There is a full thread relating to the scandalous wasting of public money on the M3 project north of Dunboyne and when the line is eventually extended to Navan it is going to cost a shed load more than it should have done. A full thread on the subject here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055330014&page=7 Post#103 from DWcommuter has plenty of pics.

Meantime this pic from Nostradamus (with a slight change of caption) on post #104 says all that needs to be said about the ffffffing Greens contribution. :mad:


Eamon Ryan, John Gormley and Ciaran "Pontius Pilate" Cuffe

Who needs "Nostradamus" when you have me!

Navan is buried as predicted by me back in early 2007. The WRC north of Tuam is no surprise. Everything else thats still left in is also doomed except Athenry - Tuam. Its cheap, pointless and just the perfect transport project for Fianna Fail or any other party.

So another prediction.

Athenry - Tuam will open soon.

The Interconnector will not be built by 2020, let alone 2018 or whatever.

Metro North will receive a lot of attention and lots of fanfare, but will be lucky to open by 2020. The only thing in its favour is that its a Government pet project.

If you disagree with this then argue away, but I won't be joining in because I'm right.:D

Sponge Bob

DWCommuter wrote: »

So another prediction.

Athenry - Tuam will open soon.

It will be kicked out to some consultant in 2011 and allowed to wither, my prediction. I will not see it in my lifetime.

The Interconnector will not be built by 2020, let alone 2018 or whatever.

The tunnel will but chronic fannyballs with the rest of it will result in the full project with the attendant electrifications/quadtracks here and there/resignalling/rolling stock not being finished by 2020.

Metro North will receive a lot of attention and lots of fanfare, but will be lucky to open by 2020.

This will be complete by 2018 unless there is a general election by summer 2011 in which case you will be right. Too many contracts will be in place by summer 2011 for it not to proceed.

monument

From 2010 - 2016, it says €12 billion will be spent on transport -- this is somehow broken down to €5.755bn on public transport and €5.964bn on roads. Public transport / roads split in funding will go from €615m / €1,414m in 2010 to €1,005m / €570m in 2016.

It's a very fuzzy document.

The transport section is just under 4,000 words. It uses a lot of words and says very little.

Metro North, and the Dart Underground "and associated projects" are in, there's a lot of fluff, repetition, random inserted media-friendly facts.

Table 4.1 illustrates the financial allocation to the programme of capital investment in the Transport sector in the years to 2016 including provision for:

• § The completion of a range of public transport projects at advanced planning and implementation stage;
• § Metro North;
• § DART Underground and associated projects;
• § The completion of the MIUs;
• § The commencement of a number of key strategic national road priority projects (including progression of the Atlantic Corridor and the N11) and essential maintenance of the national network;
• § Funding for ongoing local and regional road maintenance and improvement;
• § Funding for ongoing public transport programmes including the rail safety and traffic management programmes; and
• § Funding for ongoing planning.

On BXD it notes:

Outside of these projects – beyond essential maintenance and safety-related work – the primary focus should be on the continuation of planning of future priorities and, as in the case of the cross-city Luas line, carrying out preliminary work, where appropriate, to minimise future construction impacts .

Lots of -- what can only be described as -- bull ****, like this on public transport:

The changing economic conditions will have implications for required capacity in public transport infrastructure. As discussed at Section 2, many of the factors which have driven demand for capital investment over the past number of years are experiencing reversals in trends. These patterns are of particular relevance regarding demand for public transport: a significant fall in house completions and a reduction in numbers of people commuting owing
to increasing unemployment will serve to dampen demand for public transport infrastructure in the short-medium term. Accordingly any reprioritisation of capital spending in this area must be cognisant of the economic inefficiency of excess capacity in the absence of matching demand. Nonetheless, there is a significant time lag at play in public transport infrastructure provision from the point at which the decision is made to provide it, through to design, planning and construction – especially with rail projects – and therefore, a focus should be kept on medium-long term demand projections. Where budgetary constraints dictate a slowdown in project delivery in the short-medium term, it is important to protect future infrastructure provision by continuing to invest, as appropriate, in project planning in order that projects are ready, ‘on the shelf’, for delivery when finance becomes available and pending a continuing economic case and relative priority.

And...

Since the initial investment in Luas, there has been further capacity expansion. In 2008, trams were expanded from 30 metres to 40 metres on the red line (Tallaght – Connolly Station). On this mode too however, passenger numbers are in decline: users fell by 1 million in 2008 and by close to 2 million in 2009. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that no new expansion of capacity on the existing Luas lines should take place in the mediumterm
as existing capacity will be sufficient to cater for demand. Planning and design work on other metro and light rail projects should continue with a view to commencement of construction when economic circumstances allow and demand necessitates.

Ie as in the recent past, continue projects up to advanced / the end of planning stages.

Also, on the Luas, this is out of context of 25.4 million passenger journeys in 2009, and 27.3m in 2008.

Lots of bluster in the document, I mean more so than usual. It's a very political and unclear document. On public transport little is ruled in (bar Metro North and the Dart project) and nothing is ruled out, bits of BXD works will be done and the Navan line and other projects will proceed to railway order.

DWCommuter

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It will be kicked out to some consultant in 2011 and allowed to wither, my prediction. I will not see it in my lifetime.



The tunnel will but chronic fannyballs with the rest of it will result in the full project with the attendant electrifications/quadtracks here and there/resignalling/rolling stock not being finished by 2020.



This will be complete by 2018 unless there is a general election by summer 2011 in which case you will be right. Too many contracts will be in place by summer 2011 for it not to proceed.

DW and The Sponge in a face off!:D

Propellerhead

Don't forget that whatever projects emerge from the smoking carcass of the Celtic Tiger may end up being meddled with out of recognition.

Remember this? It is part of the answer to the hardy perennial question, "why don't the two Luas lines meet"

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/luas-cost-on-track-to-overshoot-by-pound300m-426058.html

In addition, the reasons for the Broadstone-Liffey Junction alignment for being taken away from CIE and handed to the RPA are now gone as well.

westtip

monument wrote: »

The transport section is just under 4,000 words. It uses a lot of words and says very little.

.

I thought the civil servants had written it clearly Dempsey stayed up late and did it himself.

Son of Stupido

I think you are all jumping to conclusions.

The document is too vague. You can't say something is ruled in or out on the basis of this piece of crap.

The is no detail. Even the metro & Interconnector have the qualification 'subject to government decision' beside them.

Case in point the Luas BX. A lot of the work for this is designed to be done together with the metro. They both complement themselves, and contracts are being designed to do the work simultaniously (i.e service relocation, track bed preperation, reinstatement of hard standing areas, road surfaces etc.

Another thing people should remember, tender prices have plummitted in the last 18 months. You are getting much more for less money, so a 40% cut in funding does not necessarily equate to a 40% cut in projects.

The construction industry, all the way down to the bottom, did very well out of the boom. The new tender prices do not represent unstainable pricing, but reflect the cuts in cost and wages that have hit everyone.

But my main point is without the detail, we just don't know what is going ahead and what is not. Simple as that.

Sponge Bob

DWCommuter wrote: »

DW and The Sponge in a face off!:D

Make it meaningful.

By July 31st 2014 I will owe you a pint for every MILE of WRC they build/or tender out to build or you will owe me a pint for every MILE they do NOT build and between Athenry and Tuam.

Furthermore the bet is to be collected in 1 x 24 hour period only.

Sponge Bob

Son of Stupido wrote: »

The document is too vague. You can't say something is ruled in or out on the basis of this piece of crap.

There is the BIG LIE of course. They have deliberately injected current spending ingto capital spending as I explained here

spank_inferno

skywalker_208 wrote: »

As usual all the money gets pumped into Dublin and the rest of the country gets shafted!

Seeing as Dublin pays for this shindig we call Ireland I cant see what is wrong with that.

foggy_lad

The minister on the one o'clock news has said that the western rail phase2 and navan rail link will happen at the same time as the interconnector and metro north.

shamwari

lord lucan wrote: »

Given that the Northern line is struggling to cope with existing services i can't see them ever adding passenger services to the Navan branch. Not to mention that the line from Drogheda to Navan would have to be relaid and Navan station would require a huge refurb to bring it up to operational standard.

Most of the Navan Branch was relaid and resignalled on mini-CTC in the past few years. If it can take a 900ton ore train, it can take 300ton railcar.

Capacity to Connolly is currently a problem as is the fact that there is no platform in Drogheda into which a Navan-bound train can land. However, the interconnector might sort the capacity issue....

shamwari

foggy_lad wrote: »

The minister on the one o'clock news has said that the western rail phase2 and navan rail link will happen at the same time as the interconnector and metro north.

IF true then thats another changes of position. I understood Metro & Interconnector are go, whereas the other two are on hold and will be reviewed in the context of funding going forward.

Judgement Day

shamwari wrote: »

IF true then thats another changes of position. I understood Metro & Interconnector are go, whereas the other two are on hold and will be reviewed in the context of funding going forward.

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Is that you Biffo?

Cool Mo D

shamwari wrote: »

Most of the Navan Branch was relaid and resignalled on mini-CTC in the past few years. If it can take a 900ton ore train, it can take 300ton railcar.

Capacity to Connolly is currently a problem as is the fact that there is no platform in Drogheda into which a Navan-bound train can land. However, the interconnector might sort the capacity issue....

Not quite - as more than 3 or 4 commuter trains north of Malahide per hour (such as at peak times), would severely slow the Enterprise, which basically needs an empty track between Drogheda and Malahide to keep to timetable.

But spending 500 million euro on adding a third express track from Connolly to Balbriggan would basically solve capacity problems, and would perhaps be a better use of money than reopening Navan, if the money went that far. 4 tracks would be nice between Howth Junction and Connolly, but we could manage with 3.
The third track would serve the Enterprise, Drogheda DARTs south of Malahide, and Navan and Dundalk commuter trains.

Then the Navan - Drogheda line could be used for express commuter trains - faster than the Navan line would be since it would have to share track from Clonsilla in anyway. No need for Navan trains to stop at Drogheda - use Balbriggan instead.

DWCommuter

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Make it meaningful.

By July 31st 2014 I will owe you a pint for every MILE of WRC they build/or tender out to build or you will owe me a pint for every MILE they do NOT build and between Athenry and Tuam.

Furthermore the bet is to be collected in 1 x 24 hour period only.

DEAL!

DWCommuter

Dempsey on Radio News at one;

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0727/budget_2011_av.html?2794160,null,209

Navan by 2015/16.:eek: No doubt he'll be on the Westy news spouting the same crap about the WRC. This Government just do not know when to throw in the towel and be honest and up front.

My earlier prediction stands.;)

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

Dempsey on Radio News at one;

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0727/budget_2011_av.html?2794160,null,209

Navan by 2015/16.:eek: No doubt he'll be on the Westy news spouting the same crap about the WRC. This Government just do not know when to throw in the towel and be honest and up front.

My earlier prediction stands.;)

DW once again you have to take notice of what Dempsey was saying and as ever take note that if his lips were moving at the time - he was most definitely lying. Its a giveaway. Lips move, sound comes out. He's lying. It's been proven right as a theory time and time again.

westtip

shamwari wrote: »

IF true then thats another changes of position. I understood Metro & Interconnector are go, whereas the other two are on hold and will be reviewed in the context of funding going forward.

and the paradox of this analagy within the context of the overall global environment about which we could have made no predictions is that we are indeed going forward in this together - and I have great faith in this going forward motion of the irish nation (great little nation that we are), that we are indeed heading paradoxically to a very soft landing - and I know all this cos the soft brown S H one T in which you are landing is largely to do with me, and err well Bertie, and err Charlie and several others.....

What a paradox we live in. BTW my minisiterial pension keeps me out the soft stuff completely.

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

take note that if his lips were moving at the time - he was most definitely lying. Its a giveaway. Lips move, sound comes out. He's lying. It's been proven right as a theory time and time again.

This would be the exact same Navan railway line that Dempsey promised his peepil in Meath would be open within five years ......that in 1999. It is already 6 years late.

dermo88

Anytime I see that stupid 4uckwit phrase "going forward", I feel the urge to commit violent criminal acts. I am sure I am not alone.

Its just like those stupid management buzzwords signifying someone devoid of experience, but full of theory.

Its like those senior betting executives from Ladbrokes, Corals, Stanleys who suggested.

"Lets remove the bars around our staff, so that they can be closer to our customers"

Try that around the East Wall you college educated pr1ck. You'll think twice on that theory fast.

DWCommuter

dermo88 wrote: »

Anytime I see that stupid 4uckwit phrase "going forward", I feel the urge to commit violent criminal acts. I am sure I am not alone.

Its just like those stupid management buzzwords signifying someone devoid of experience, but full of theory.

Its like those senior betting executives from Ladbrokes, Corals, Stanleys who suggested.

"Lets remove the bars around our staff, so that they can be closer to our customers"

Try that around the East Wall you college educated pr1ck. You'll think twice on that theory fast.

BRILLIANT!:D

Hungerford

shamwari wrote: »

Most of the Navan Branch was relaid and resignalled on mini-CTC in the past few years. If it can take a 900ton ore train, it can take 300ton railcar.

No resignalling has taken place and Navan signal cabin remains as the last operational GNR cabin in Ireland. The speed on the line is limited to 25mph.

On another note, anyone else getting seriously confused by what the hell the government are meant to be building as part of this transport strategy?

Judgement Day

Hungerford - why are you surprised - Transport 21 was a back of an envelope job and now the chickens are coming home to roost. :rolleyes:

Empire o de Sun

Son of Stupido wrote: »

Another thing people should remember, tender prices have plummitted in the last 18 months. You are getting much more for less money, so a 40% cut in funding does not necessarily equate to a 40% cut in projects.

The construction industry, all the way down to the bottom, did very well out of the boom. The new tender prices do not represent unstainable pricing, but reflect the cuts in cost and wages that have hit everyone.

When I last looked at tenders for construction jobs (when I had a job in the industry in Ireland) last summer, prices were down over 30%, so you can get real good value for tax money now. The only thing is that such a project like metro, luas is not as big a pool of tenderers as road projects. So value might not be as good. But if the project management is any good they will press for good prices. And analyse all rates to make sure there is no rate set high in the bill that the contractor can use in "compensation events" basically extra/unforssen work, used to be called "day works"

BenShermin

dermo88 wrote: »

Anytime I see that stupid 4uckwit phrase "going forward", I feel the urge to commit violent criminal acts. I am sure I am not alone.

Actually dermo, going forward, I think that disingenuous has become the new Leinster House catchphrase.

Watch 6.1 tomorrow, I'm not being disingenuous on this one I swear;).

dermo88

And to think I supported Fianna Fail in 2007 on the basis that they would do most of it.

A lot done, more to do.

I am absolutely ashamed of myself. The proof is there on this board that I supported Transport 21, and believed it. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Fooled in the 1980's. Fooled in the 2000's.

When it came to Dempsey getting the transport ministry in 2007, I said.

"Give the man a chance, once he has enough rope he will screw up"

Again, the posts are here to prove that. I should be proud of myself "GOING FORWARD".......

BenShermin

dermo88 wrote: »

And to think I supported Fianna Fail in 2007 on the basis that they would do most of it.

I've made the same mistake, and to be honest if the election was faught purely on transport I'd once again make the same mistake in 2012.

Talking to Labour and Fine Gael representatives in my area about the merits of Network Direct is like talking to a wall who only cares about the 80 year old Mrs O'Gorman's in this world, rather than the thousands of commuters who chose to drive to work in Dublin due to a bus system that takes "serving the entire community" to mean every residential doorstep. Once their photo is in the Southside Post they're happy.

When it comes to rail related matters I haven't seen FG nor Lab give a damn about recent revelations in IÉ mainly the MK3 situation and the viaduct collapse. All I can hear from the opposition benches is the natterings of a clapped out Noonan and false promise after false promise from Eamon "look at me" Gilmore.

When I honestly think to myself that FF are the best of a deplorable bunch I want to pack my bags and get the fcuk out of this red tape mess of a country. Knowing my luck my flight will be delayed in Dublin cattlemart Airport:rolleyes:.

dermo88

At this stage, I am so frustrated, If I had enough money, I'd happily organise a military coup. The only problem would be Army deafness claims.

Fianna Fail....I dislike them instensely. They are institutionally corrupt, but through management of the levers of power, money, and people, they have become the fig vines wrapped around with a stranglehold on Irish society. There simply is no escaping that unsavoury fact.

Labour. Labour are beholden to the Unions. Why have one train carrying 800 passengers, with 1 driver, when you can have 10 buses carrying the same amount with 10 drivers, creating employment and votes for those in the Labour Party.

Fine Gael are merely diet Fianna Fail, with too much country and western politics thrown in. They are generally more principled and honest, but ultimately clueless, and pretend to be all things to all people.

Well.....who said Democracy was perfect?

This phenomenon is fairly common to countries which have reached Irelands level of economic development, standard of living, and cost base.

The result is apathy, and politicians thrive on apathy. Especially the Mrs O'Gorman and her medical card. Its also about drip feeding whats needed. Promise it at election time, do not deliver, deliver 20% and keep the rest for later.

Transport is just a sideline amongst bigger issues such as education, health, law enforcement. The more people shrug their shoulders and say "Thats how it is, we have to live with it", the more I realise that the Irish people must have been extremely pissed off with the English when they got kicked out. With apathy levels the way they are, it astonishes me that we ever did.

We tolerate the sins of our own, and criticise the past. But shur, we can always sing a song about how cruel the colonial oppressors were in the pub, and safely forget what is being done by our own in our name.

Craig Fay

dermo88 wrote: »

Labour...Why have one train carrying 800 passengers, with 1 driver, when you can have 10 buses carrying the same amount with 10 drivers, creating employment and votes for those in the Labour Party.

As far as I remember, Labour support both Metro North and DartU

paddyland

The railways are being scuttled under Dempsey. Existing infrastructure is being deliberately closed and sold off, or let rot, while badly needed and long promised investment is withheld, while bare faced lies are trotted out every election time.

The bus service is a shambles under Dempsey, with operators queuing up at the law courts to take anti-competitive cases against each other, due to archaic laws and deliberate inattention of the Department.

The airports are a mess under Dempsey, with a great white elephant of a terminal being built by an airport authority that seems to be a law unto itself, run by grossly overpaid executives who haven't the first notion of the efficient movement of people or traffic, and who deliberately obstruct their biggest customer.

The taxis are a disgrace under Dempsey, with an industry whose standards have gone to hell under a proven incompetent regulator, whose sole function seems to be to deflect flak from Dempsey himself, while presiding over an industry where operatives cannot earn enough to survive in business. Taxi drivers have committed suicide under Dempsey's tenure. Dempsey has actual blood on his hands over this one.

The only thing Dempsey has delivered in his tenure, is a series of lucrative toll plazas on our new roads, with very questionable contracts requiring the taxpayer to bail out the toll companies when traffic levels fail to meet projections. That, and some very questionable appointments to the boards of those same toll companies. Read the background of Dempsey's brother Loman, and his associates.

If there is any karma in this world, Noel Dempsey will die roaring.

dermo88

I had a cursory glance over the background of Loman Dempsey.

He is a Director of Raymond Potterton, which is a Real Estate company, geared towards commercial property.

http://www.raymondpotterton.com/v2/company-ourteam.asp

But then I came across THIS

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59131458

And more

http://www.independent.ie/business/m50-directors-unmasked-1466341.html

"Nor does the annual report breathe a word about director Raymond Potterton. A little digging reveals that Potterton was a business partner of Loman Dempsey, brother of none other than cabinet minister Noel Dempsey"

lets have a look at his VC from a partisan source - Irish taxi.org

http://irishtaxi.org/forum/index.php?topic=272.5;wap2

I have not the time to fully analyse this. But it is clear that he has been in the Dail too long, and knows that his time is coming. The problem is, that he is part and parcel of the Meath constituency, particularly the Trim district. He has 14 brothers also, and when it gets to that point, you can blame Noel Dempsey for his own deeds, but its somewhat unfair to blame him for the deeds of his family.

At this stage, nothing surprises me anymore. I think I should just stay away, and go somewhere a bit more corrupt, friendly and affordable. I might have a better chance of getting ahead in life.

D.L.R.

dermo88 wrote: »

At this stage, nothing surprises me anymore. I think I should just stay away, and go somewhere a bit more corrupt, friendly and affordable. I might have a better chance of getting ahead in life.

I hear ye dermo.. not much hope left for this kip meself, with the likes of these clown in charge, and a dearth of talent coming up to replace them. Outlook is grim (except for those already on the pig's back of course)