NCPS clampers 1 - me 0

jon1981

well, here is my clamping story by NCPS!

I got clamped in my housing estate over the weekend. I was bulling, so went and got an angle grinder. Left it a few hours before i made an attempt at it. Had a look, decided to go for one of the chain links, was at about 90s and had a fraction of the link left to go before it was free... the f**king clamper rolls up right beside my car ( apparently he was already in the estate releasing a clamp) and calls the police.

net results:

90 euro for the clamp
150 for the damage...

For anyone who plans to do this in the future...make sure the clampers are not around. :mad:

Eric Cartman

your only required to replace what you damage, cutting the lock off is the easiest one because they can be got in crothers etc... but cutting off a chain link and leaving 20 euro to get it repaired would have been best , you should have refused to pay all that, NCPS and APCOA are c*nts anyway, even if you did get caught it was worth it just to piss them off.

Chippy01

jon1981 wrote: »

I got clamped in my housing estate over the weekend. :mad:

Why would you get clamped in the estate that you live in? :eek:

jon1981

Chippy01 wrote: »

Why would you get clamped in the estate that you live in? :eek:

ah its a long story, i moved into the house last year, you're only allowed 2 cars per house, the other 2 house mates have the permits so i have to use these temporary permits and park in the visitor spot, mine was out by an hour ( as i dont have enough to last each month, every house receives new permits monthly and you scratch off the time and day of the month when you park and your allowed 3,6 and 12 hours depending on the permit)

p.s. i wasn't old about the parking mess before i moved in.

jon1981

Eric Cartman wrote: »

your only required to replace what you damage, cutting the lock off is the easiest one because they can be got in crothers etc... but cutting off a chain link and leaving 20 euro to get it repaired would have been best , you should have refused to pay all that, NCPS and APCOA are c*nts anyway, even if you did get caught it was worth it just to piss them off.

the gardai were saying they could do me for criminal damage upon the request from NCPS... it sickened me, i offered to pay for the link to the clamp... no luck there. ( in fairness to the gardai they did say to me next time you do it just make sure NCPS aren't in the estate at the time!)

Eric Cartman

jon1981 wrote: »

the gardai were saying they could do me for criminal damage upon the request from NCPS... it sickened me, i offered to pay for the link to the clamp... no luck there.

yeah criminal damage to the chain link, at worst they could get you for the cost of the clamp which knowing the chain ones we bought for work was probably 60 euro or so , tip for the future - buy 4 large wheel clamps and put them on all your wheels and park wherever the f*ck you want in the estate

jon1981

was thinking about that, there must be some device ( or someone should invent one) that you can put on your wheels to prevent them being able to put chains in around the back of the wheel!

jon1981

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yeah criminal damage to the chain link, at worst they could get you for the cost of the clamp which knowing the chain ones we bought for work was probably 60 euro or so , tip for the future - buy 4 large wheel clamps and put them on all your wheels and park wherever the f*ck you want in the estate

they said it cost 150, i said id pay them next week and i want an invoice for it.

Stark

jon1981 wrote: »

the gardai were saying they could do me for criminal damage upon the request from NCPS...

To something that was attached to your own property against your will? Get a solicitor. There have been cases like this and the judge has ruled in favour of persons like yourself.

jon1981

Stark wrote: »

To something that was attached to your own property against your will? Get a solicitor. There have been cases like this and the judge has ruled in favour of persons like yourself.

i was thinking but didn't say it... but it was attached to my property... does that make it my possession? ah its a messy area...
also is it worth involving a solicitor given the cost we are talking here.

Gran Hermano

Why did you pay both the clamp release fee and the charge for damaging the chain?

No way I'd have paid either on the spot, I'd have provided the clamper with my name and address and told him to invoice me for the damage to his clamp.

Eric Cartman

jon1981 wrote: »

they said it cost 150, i said id pay them next week and i want an invoice for it.

get an invoice from the company that provides the clamps, not ncps, dont pay up until they can give you an invoice from the other company, then call that company to make sure thats the price

jon1981

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Why did you pay both the clamp release fee and the charge for damaging the chain?

No way I'd have paid either on the spot, I'd have provided the clamper with my name and address and told him to invoice me for the damage to his clamp.

i've only paid for the release so far but i have to pay for the damage by Friday or they (NCPS) can press charges

Eric Cartman

jon1981 wrote: »

i've only paid for the release so far but i have to pay for the damage by Friday or they (NCPS) can press charges

well if you paid the 90 euro release fee and a clamp does actually in some insane gold plated world turn out to be 150 then just hand them 60 euro and walk away

jon1981

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well if you paid the 90 euro release fee and a clamp does actually in some insane gold plated world turn out to be 150 then just hand them 60 euro and walk away

this is what confused me, the gardai were saying that i have to pay what NCPS wanted otherwise i could have been arrested charged and brought to court. I don't know if they were saying that just to shut me up so they could close the case and head on.

Max Power1

jon1981 wrote: »

this is what confused me, the gardai were saying that i have to pay what NCPS wanted otherwise i could have been arrested charged and brought to court. I don't know if they were saying that just to shut me up so they could close the case and head on.

I doubt thats the best procedure for you,just the quickest way for the AGS guys to get out of there!

As said before, you CANNOT be charged for criminal damage to something attached to your property against your will. If I am ever in the same situation, they(NCPS/mafia) will have their day(s) in court, where I doubt it will go in their favour.

Cookie_Monster

jon1981 wrote: »

( in fairness to the gardai they did say to me next time you do it just make sure NCPS aren't in the estate at the time!)

good stuff

Eric Cartman

jon1981 wrote: »

this is what confused me, the gardai were saying that i have to pay what NCPS wanted otherwise i could have been arrested charged and brought to court. I don't know if they were saying that just to shut me up so they could close the case and head on.

even if you get brought to court i doubt youd be made pay more than the cost of the clamp , imagine if they had your reg and you stole the clamp after cutting it off, youd only be liable for the cost of a clamp

Viper_JB

jon1981 wrote: »

this is what confused me, the gardai were saying that i have to pay what NCPS wanted otherwise i could have been arrested charged and brought to court. I don't know if they were saying that just to shut me up so they could close the case and head on.

I'm pretty sure they could not arrest you for this, it's a civil matter. Sucks either way, these clamers are scumbags.

John_Mc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

even if you get brought to court i doubt youd be made pay more than the cost of the clamp , imagine if they had your reg and you stole the clamp after cutting it off, youd only be liable for the cost of a clamp

I cut off an NCPS clamp with a bolt cutters. It's still in my boot now - let them prove criminal damage without the item that's been damaged

Eric Cartman

John_Mc wrote: »

I cut off an NCPS clamp with a bolt cutters. It's still in my boot now - let them prove criminal damage without the item that's been damaged

you should fix it and sell it to the OP for 50 euro , saves him 100 euro and you get 50

John_Mc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you should fix it and sell it to the OP for 50 euro , saves him 100 euro and you get 50

The clamps have serial numbers cut into them so they'd know it was a different clamp. If I did what you suggest, they'd have the proof to charge me for criminal damage...

Eric Cartman

John_Mc wrote: »

The clamps have serial numbers cut into them so they'd know it was a different clamp. If I did what you suggest, they'd have the proof to charge me for criminal damage...

how deeply is it cut in, nothin that a grinder wont fix

jon1981

ahhh im f**king annoyed, i knew this day would come and i handled it badly!!! :mad:

[edit i better remove that last comment]

Atlantic Dawn

I would love for it to go to court if it was me as it's a legal minefield to interfer with someones personal property and restrict it's movement from an organisation with no license to do so. The last thing NCPS or any private clamping organisation want is for something like this to go to court as they risk the whole legality of their operation being called in to question. No person has ever went to court in Ireland for damaging a clamp fitted by a private company. Really iritates me that they are not licensed by the PSA.

JimmyCrackCorn

Clamp fell off by itself.

It happens

What sort of a brain dead clown came up with the idea of only allowing 2 cars per house. Honestly if you have 3 rooms parking should be available for 3 cars simple as that.

Can you not challenge the management company and get a permit for yourself op? You have no comfort the way you are.

jon1981

Eli Wet Shrimp wrote: »

What sort of a brain dead clown came up with the idea of only allowing 2 cars per house. Honestly if you have 3 rooms parking should be available for 3 cars simple as that.

Can you not challenge the management company and get a permit for yourself op? You have no comfort the way you are.

no it was agreed by the residents of the estate, 2 cars per house only. moving will be the only option if i don't figure away around this. I stay over the in girlfriends place a bit so i dont have to worry about the parking and normally the supply of temp permits will last me the month but not this time.

jon1981

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I would love for it to go to court if it was me as it's a legal minefield to interfer with someones personal property and restrict it's movement from an organisation with no license to do so. The last thing NCPS or any private clamping organisation want is for something like this to go to court as they risk the whole legality of their operation being called in to question. No person has ever went to court in Ireland for damaging a clamp fitted by a private company. Really iritates me that they are not licensed by the PSA.

hmmm what to do... might call up a solicitor.

dr ro

O.p. have your housemates not offered to split the parking costs seeing as you've to move out. Would probably be easier than getting another tenant.



Also, we should do as the french did. I.e. anytime you see a secluded clamp, anywhere, stick broken matches and/or glue into the lock mechanism. Watch the f*ckers cut their own clamps off. They won't last too long if a few more people did that. That's how the french dealt with their pests.

Adam Selene

Might I refer you to the following:

Road Traffic Act 1961:
113.—(1) A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place, or get on or into or attempt to get on or into the vehicle while it is so stationary.
[GA]
(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]
(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.
[GA]
(4) This section shall not apply to a person taking, in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle which is obstructing his lawful ingress or egress to or from any place, such steps as are reasonably necessary to move the vehicle by human propulsion for a distance sufficient to terminate the obstruction.
[GA]
(5) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that, when he did the act alleged to constitute the offence, he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that he had lawful authority for doing that act.

AND

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994
17.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person who, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, makes any unwarranted demand with menaces.
[GA]
(2) For the purposes of this section—
[GA]
( a ) a demand with menaces shall be unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief—
[GA]
(i) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand, and
[GA]
(ii) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand;
[GA]
( b ) the nature of the act or omission demanded shall be immaterial and it shall also be immaterial whether or not the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.
[GA]
(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
[GA]
( a ) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both,
[GA]
( b ) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years or to both.

I think the Road Traffic Act 1961 applies in this situation. But if they eascalate you could make a complaint to the Gardai of extortion.

Have fun now;)

JimmyCrackCorn

dr ro wrote: »

O.p. have your housemates not offered to split the parking costs seeing as you've to move out. Would probably be easier than getting another tenant.



Also, we should do as the french did. I.e. anytime you see a secluded clamp, anywhere, stick broken matches and/or glue into the lock mechanism. Watch the f*ckers cut their own clamps off. They won't last too long if a few more people did that. That's how the french dealt with their pests.

Dodgie vandalism for the win!

Stark

Adam Selene wrote: »

I think the Road Traffic Act 1961 applies in this situation.

In the OP's favour or the clampers' favour? From my reading of it, the clampers are guilty of interfering with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary and there's no mention of the OP obstructing anyone. As far as I know, the council clampers are covered by bye laws but the private clampers are really chancing their arm that no-one tries to bring a case against them.

jon1981

Stark wrote: »

In the OP's favour or the clampers' favour? From my reading of it, the clampers are guilty of interfering with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary and there's no mention of the OP obstructing anyone. As far as I know, the council clampers are covered by bye laws but the private clampers are really chancing their arm that no-one tries to bring a case against them.

it does state a public place... not sure if id be covered by that as its a private housing estate?

Stark

If the public can access it, then it generally falls under "public place" for road traffic legislation purposes, regardless of who actually owns the land.

markpb

Stark wrote: »

If the public can access it, then it generally falls under "public place" for road traffic legislation purposes, regardless of who actually owns the land.

Gated estates (industrial, commercial or residential) are all exceptions to this.

jon1981

so to sum up:

its a grey area, no clear legislation on who can do what.

NCPS have put a clamp on my car,
its on private property so i'm not covered by the traffic act
I can remove the clamp as perfectly entitled to do
BUT if i damage it, they can do me (as they did) for criminal damage. OR else remove it when they aren't looking.

So how do we remove clamps without damaging them?

Anan1

jon1981 wrote: »

so to sum up:

its a grey area, no clear legislation on who can do what.

NCPS have put a clamp on my car,
its on private property so i'm not covered by the traffic act
I can remove the clamp as perfectly entitled to do
BUT if i damage it, they can do me (as they did) for criminal damage. OR else remove it when they aren't looking.

So how do we remove clamps without damaging them?

Honestly, I think this is going to continue to be a PITA for you until you either get a permit or move out. The clampers are presumably employed by the management company - whatever you think of their rules, you'll ultimately have to abide by them.

stealthyspeeder

jon1981 wrote: »

So how do we remove clamps without damaging them?

Depends on how it was put on and the type of clamp

Those yellow Triangle ones can be removed by simply deflating the tyres and driving slowly out of them (or removing the wheel) if the chain has not been put through the wishbone. If it has been put through the wishbone, you may need to take everything apart and in more omdern cars this may not be an option due to metal welds.

Other clamps are more severe and the only way is an angle grinder to the lock.

As another poster said, supergule to the lock for the longterm win!

jon1981

yep it was the chain type of clamp. I seen a video of a guy removing some part of the wishbone to take it off... looked easy enough...but as you said all cars are different.

seamus

On private property you can call NCPS and demand that they remove the clamp and bill you for the parking. You have no obligation to pay them for removal of the clamp as they have no legal basis under which to detain your vehicle for non-payment of a fee.

Even the payment of the fee is on shaky enough ground - simply parking in the estate cannot be seen as acceptance of the conditions unless those conditions are clearly displayed on entrance to the estate. An agreement between management company shareholders would not cover this - for example, if a visitor was clamped because of this "2 cars" rule, but the visitor was not made aware of it, then there is no legal basis on which to levy any fee on that visitor.

Anan1

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

As another poster said, supergule to the lock for the longterm win!

He's already been caught by the Gardaí in the act of damaging one clamp, and it's possible that one or more residents of the estate saw this. Remember, the residents introduced clamping so they'll likely all be against the OP. If the management company get on to the landlord then the OP and his flatmates could all find themselves looking for a new home.

Stark

Ring the clamping company and ask them to clamp the residents' cars (If NCPS are like APCOA, they'll comply greedily). That'll change their tune.

PS: As someone who's had that done to him, I don't actually advocate that, it's a really horrible thing to wake up to.

Anan1

Stark wrote: »

Ring the clamping company and ask them to clamp the residents' cars (If NCPS are like APCOA, they'll comply greedily). That'll change their tune.

?? The residents have employed the clampers to clamp cars without permits.

Stark

The clamping company (APCOA) in my estate will clamp anyone on request. We don't actually have a permit system. It certainly knocked me off my "you must have done something wrong if you were clamped" high horse. We'll be out of there in a few weeks anyway so it won't be an issue anymore.

Johnny86

Eli Wet Shrimp wrote: »

What sort of a brain dead clown came up with the idea of only allowing 2 cars per house. Honestly if you have 3 rooms parking should be available for 3 cars simple as that.

{QUOTE]

Its generally in development plans the amount of parking that should be provided per house...its unsustainable to have a space for every bedroom for every house

Our man in Havana

I would force them to court as they are on shaky legal grounds to begin with and the courts are not on the side of parasitic clampers.

Wibbs

dr ro wrote: »

Also, we should do as the french did. I.e. anytime you see a secluded clamp, anywhere, stick broken matches and/or glue into the lock mechanism. Watch the f*ckers cut their own clamps off. They won't last too long if a few more people did that. That's how the french dealt with their pests.

And the Spanish and the Italians. They did it to all clamps too, not just the private extortionists.

I know someone who cut off one of the official clamps. Threw it in the boot and drove off. Removed sticker from window when he got home. The Guards went to his house that very night. He just denied seeing said clamp in the first place. Prove otherwise. He's actually made a bit of a study of the standard clamps out there and reckons most are easy enough to remove. Go for the padlock or the welds apparently. Then again he's a big bugger, so even if discovered by clampers they're not likely to intimidate the chap. To be fair he wouldnt bother doing it with an official council one again, but he had a real emergency that day, but he will do it to the private ones. He helped a mate of mine get one off since.

I'd agree with the others, take them to court if you can. Enough test cases come up and it could make a difference.

markpb

Wibbs wrote: »

And the Spanish and the Italians. They did it to all clamps too, not just the private extortionists.

Maybe the French are able to park without being idiots so they can survive without clamping?

Our man in Havana

You have never driven in Paris then. :eek:

Anan1

I think a point many people are missing is that the OP isn't just going up against the clampers, he's going up against the residents. I'd be asking myself what are the chances that the clamper just happened to pass by while the OP was cutting off the clamp. It's very easy to get caught up in the emotion of clamping, but the bottom line is that the OP lives there.