Scouting tool

satory

Over the last week I have been contemplating putting together an application that will help managers review a previous match with the view of helping them work out what tactics a team played. It is my hope to save people time when they are looking to scout a future opposition, so that they wont have to read the whole match to get their tactics.

Though I will need a little help and as we now have a free Monday night match I was wondering if a few people would be willing to try out different 100% tactics, so that I can gather a hopefully complete tactical plays database that will be used in the application?

What I would need is players playing

100% Driving or,
100% Creative or,
100% PNG or,
100% Expansive.
with people also playing maxed out on the kicking tactics, so
100% Kick for Touch or,
100% Up and Under.


If anyone wants to help out in this please post here what tactics you want to use this monday, and also your match id, so I can grab the match text after the game and start going through it.

eoferrall

satory wrote: »

Over the last week I have been contemplating putting together an application that will help managers review a previous match with the view of helping them work out what tactics a team played. It is my hope to save people time when they are looking to scout a future opposition, so that they wont have to read the whole match to get their tactics.

Though I will need a little help and as we now have a free Monday night match I was wondering if a few people would be willing to try out different 100% tactics, so that I can gather a hopefully complete tactical plays database that will be used in the application?

What I would need is players playing

100% Driving or,
100% Creative or,
100% PNG or,
100% Expansive.
with people also playing maxed out on the kicking tactics, so
100% Kick for Touch or,
100% Up and Under.


If anyone wants to help out in this please post here what tactics you want to use this monday, and also your match id, so I can grab the match text after the game and start going through it.

I'll give it a go for you, I'll take 100% expansive and 100% up and under.

Presume the match ID is the number in the link? where it says fixture=? if so the ID is 5226925

crisco10

http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/tools.live.scoring.php#fixture=5227055 is my match.

Men Who stare at goats will play:

20% kicking level, 100% to touch.

100% driving.

satory

cheers both of you...


My hope is for a beta of the application to be ready by friday, and Ill upload it for all of you here to test and make use of it, if it works.

eoferrall

must look into this API stuff etc and play around more once the ol exams are done and dusted!

This tool could be pretty useful imo, thanks for your efforts!

FewFew

God bless you nerds

dreamer_ire

I'll do 100% PnG with 100% kicking for touch. Match ID here http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/tools.live.scoring.php#fixture=5226941

FewFew

I'll do 100% Creative! Wahey!

satory

eoferrall wrote: »

must look into this API stuff etc and play around more once the ol exams are done and dusted!

This tool could be pretty useful imo, thanks for your efforts!

This actually won't be using the api at the moment, as I don't believe the api gives out the match text, maybe down the road it may become integrated with the api, if the functionality exists but not at the moment.

The way I see it is that it will need the user to copy and paste the line-ups and the match review text into the app, much like Brat does

FewFew

satory wrote: »

This actually won't an api using application at the moment, as I don't believe the api gives out the match text, maybe down the road it may become integrated with the api if the functionality exists but not at the moment.

The way I see it is that it will need the user to copy and paste the line-ups and the match review text into the app, much like Brat does

You and your techno mumbo jumbo, I'm just excited to see what happens when I go 100% creative... will it be the Mona Lisa or will it be a piece of turd with a flag stuck in it and a 4 paragraph explanation of meaning, we shall soon find out!

crisco10

Haha...

100% driving in the pouring rain actually worked quite well. Beat a team I hadnt beaten in years.

eoferrall

Saw the weather and was expecting a loss. both myself and templeogue seniors were similar ranking wise and so on.

100% expansive, happy days!

Satory it was with 10% kicking if you need that also.

Oisinjm

eoferrall wrote: »

Saw the weather and was expecting a loss. both myself and templeogue seniors were similar ranking wise and so on.

100% expansive, happy days!

Satory it was with 10% kicking if you need that also.

Damn you sir, damn you

satory

Cheers everyone, just home from work now, so I'll sepnd a few hours going through the matches and add the plays into a DB.

One thing im noticing/wondering is how to combat players that have the same name as a player on the other team, as most plays dont include a team name in the sentence, and the other issue I will need to address, although it shouldnt be too major is nicknames being used in the matches, rather than the teams name (looking at fewcifur: Munch Bunch, Death Dealers, and Sort Out Yer Knickers )

FewFew

satory wrote: »

Cheers everyone, just home from work now, so I'll sepnd a few hours going through the matches and add the plays into a DB.

One thing im noticing/wondering is how to combat players that have the same name as a player on the other team, as most plays dont include a team name in the sentence, and the other issue I will need to address, although it shouldnt be too major is nicknames being used in the matches, rather than the teams name (looking at fewcifur: Munch Bunch, Death Dealers, and Sort Out Yer Knickers )

They're all cromulent names

satory

This will be out at some point this weekend, I've just to to finish a few things, but everytime I start reading match reports to get the required sentences for plays my eyes just go on me

Also any body else here have 3(or even 2?) nicknames for their teams? and have you played Fewcifur's team at anypoint? I need to test the grabbing of multiple nicknames...

Eireannach

satory wrote: »

This will be out at some point this weekend, I've just to to finish a few things, but everytime I start reading match reports to get the required sentences for plays my eyes just go on me

Also any body else here have 3(or even 2?) nicknames for their teams? and have you played Fewcifur's team at anypoint? I need to test the grabbing of multiple nicknames...

My team has 3 nicknames and have played him a few times.

satory

Eireannach wrote: »

My team has 3 nicknames and have played him a few times.

Cheers for that, that helped.

eoferrall

satory wrote: »

This will be out at some point this weekend, I've just to to finish a few things, but everytime I start reading match reports to get the required sentences for plays my eyes just go on me

Also any body else here have 3(or even 2?) nicknames for their teams? and have you played Fewcifur's team at anypoint? I need to test the grabbing of multiple nicknames...

My team has a few nicknames also if you need another few matches to compare with frankie!

satory

No im okay for nicknames at the moment, I just needed to see in what order I had them populating my list in, but cheers anyways.

Leadership

The tools sounds exciting, trying to figure out tactics is my new "thing" and I am doing OK at it. Its fairly accurate apart from MOM defense but the 30 or so minutes is a pain to review a previous game and even more if you are trying to build a picture of the team.

I can only imagine what its like trying to figure out a software solution as while scouting is fairly natural to me now trying to explain how I do it would be nearly impossible as much of it is now "feeling" reading the game.

Anyway best of luck with the tool and I am looking forward to having a play

FewFew

I feel this whole thread has descended into hating on my team's numerous names. Excellent names. All of you be damned.

satory

Leadership wrote: »

The tools sounds exciting, trying to figure out tactics is my new "thing" and I am doing OK at it. Its fairly accurate apart from MOM defense but the 30 or so minutes is a pain to review a previous game and even more if you are trying to build a picture of the team.

I can only imagine what its like trying to figure out a software solution as while scouting is fairly natural to me now trying to explain how I do it would be nearly impossible as much of it is now "feeling" reading the game.

Anyway best of luck with the tool and I am looking forward to having a play

Yeah I never actually thought too much about the tactics of BR until that New Zealand U20's game last season came around and I got CC'd on JPenders pm about the process, then after a bit of though, I realized its possible, you really need to keep an up to date tactical DB to make sure it fully works, although a play here and there may not make much difference.

At the moment it will just be attacking plays come the first release, then after that I'll add the kicking into it and then look at seeing if I can pull out the defenses and also categorizing line breaks, if possible. the only thing that it probably wont be able to do, in the end will be intensity as it will only be using post match data.

crisco10

satory wrote: »

Yeah I never actually thought too much about the tactics of BR until that New Zealand U20's game last season came around and I got CC'd on JPenders pm about the process, then after a bit of though, I realized its possible, you really need to keep an up to date tactical DB to make sure it fully works, although a play here and there may not make much difference.

At the moment it will just be attacking plays come the first release, then after that I'll add the kicking into it and then look at seeing if I can pull out the defenses and also categorizing line breaks, if possible. the only thing that it probably wont be able to do, in the end will be intensity as it will only be using post match data.

intensity is easiest to spot though, espeically with the energy at the moment.

If the tool could do any of the rest above, it would be incrdeible. fairplay and if you need beta testers, let me know!

satory

Okay I have sent the 4 people that helped out last monday a BR mail, with regards to their league fixture last sunday I ran an early version of the tool over those matches and really want to know who different my results were to what you played, I know my own slightly different, but im still tweaking the search method, so it seems to vary at the moment, even though I think it should be right, or near enough. Once im happy with that, I'll add in the kicking plays, though I'll be away from my pc most of this week


Anyone interested in taking part again this monday for the friendlies? The more the merrier as I've got 183 different attacking plays already but I will need to be constantly/actively adding to this until it starts to give a good set of results to the users...

Thanks

satory

Quickly looking at the feed back I'm getting, I'm short of Expansive plays in my DB...

If anyone wants to use that tactic tonight?

Leadership

I will go all expansive if you want

Game is 5227738

Team is Lunster and have 1 nickname....Luns

eoferrall

I'll go expansive again for you, worked out well for me last week! Just setting team now.

match ID: 5227545

Everyone Likes a tryer v Killarney RFC

Oisinjm

I can go all whatever in my friendly if you want. Match id: 5227697

Templeogue Seniors -v- A lovely bunch altogether

satory

any chance you wanna try driving, Oisinjm?


I'll add what ever I get from tonights games into the database and give it another shot on a few peoples last league fixtures and see how close it is then, and maybe what I'm missing. If I'm close enough to the right numbers I'll release a early version of it tomorrow some time, as I wont be back until next sunday/monday next week

Oisinjm

satory wrote: »

any chance you wanna try driving, Oisinjm?


I'll add what ever I get from tonights games into the database and give it another shot on a few peoples last league fixtures and see how close it is then, and maybe what I'm missing. If I'm close enough to the right numbers I'll release a early version of it tomorrow some time, as I wont be back until next sunday/monday next week

Sorry i had to go out and I couldnt set the tactics in time. Apologies.

My tactics are: Pick and Go: 30
Driving: 30
Expansive: 25
Creative: 15

if thats any help to you

satory

Cool I may use your match as a type of control, when testing it out... I've also come across another issue that may or may not be restricting the the number of plays the application picks up on,

Im going to have to look into that after I get tonights work done

crisco10

satory wrote: »

Cool I may use your match as a type of control, when testing it out... I've also come across another issue that may or may not be restricting the the number of plays the application picks up on,

Im going to have to look into that after I get tonights work done

Ditto, would have played whatever you liked tonight but have been out all day. Let me know if you want anything in particualr next week.

From your analysis of my game, the program seemed to underestimate driving plays significantly too.

satory

Leadership wrote: »

Hey Satory, how is the app going? I am dying to have a play with it! Can you give us an update on how its going? Want me to beta test?

Sorry for not keeping this upto date... Had a heavy weekend last weekend and needed a good bit of time to recover.

I have added more plays to the db because of last mondays friendly so the whole DB is looking at just over the 300 "individual" plays but I will need to go over each play and make sure that they are actually individual (some plays I might of grabbed an extra sentence) but that will come in the future...

I have 2 small/medium things to do,
1. Fix the results section, at the moment it shows a pie chart but without the figures showing... easy enough to fix/change
2. remove all my debugging stuff from the code. at the moment it takes ages to run it as I have messages popping up left, right and centre, it wont take too long to comment them out.

The last final thing I want to do is package the program in an installer, overkill to some extent but if done right opens the app to more people to mess around with. I have 2 issues with that in regards to the .Net framework and the DB that I used... to make it all easier for people.

So with regards to a time frame?

Well I've just ordered 17 euros worth of food as im starving and well I do all my most productive work at night so I'll see how much I can get done over the next couple of hours...


If people are looking for friendlies, and want to help out with this again, if you can agree/look for a friendly where you both play 100 Creative or 100% Expansive (and 0% kicking) as that pulls out 2 match loads of plays in 1 game and its incredibly helpful


EDIT:: 4 and a half hours later and I'm about to hit the hay... I have still one minor issue to sort out but I've asked on a forum for advice and info so hopefully once I wake like magic(ctrl +c & ctrl+v) its should sort its self out...

For anyone wanting to use the app on release this will be needed, though some of you may or may not have it, the install will prompt you if you don't so theres the link there for save keeping

satory

How to use...

1. Include your Blackout Rugby API Access Key. This can be found in the game here. To add it into the application go "File-> Add API Member Access Key" Copy and paste your key in to the following text box and that will lock in. If you change your blackout rugby password at any point you will need to re-get this key or other wise the application wont work.

2. How to scout
"File->New Scouting Assignment" you will need to copy and paste 2 things the match id, which can be found in your browsers address bar its the numbers after "fixture=XXXXXXX"
The second thing you need to add is the commentary, (this bit will soon be automated as Jermery has said he'd going to look into it adding it to the api but for now)
You need to review the match and Grab the text between the First Half - 00:00 and Full time and copy and paste that into the application. You can use the printable view for this but I've had issues so its best to stick with the awkward review page.

Once their both added, click okay and sit back... this will take a moment or 2, for me its taken usually 1 to 3 minutes sometimes even longer. So if it actually comes up as not responding then don't worry its still doing its thing.
quite simply its got to run over the 300 plays in the DB and use every permutation and combination of players and team names...


Once this is done you'll see the breakdown in attacking plays, and their percentages.. Note this is still not exact but its (at least for my matches:) ) is pretty close, theres still one or two dodge results so don't put all your stock in it.


DOWNLOAD - updated link, see post 2 down..

EDIT:: You'll also be prompted to install sql server express 2005. Forgot about this and I apologize for the extra additional download, in the next release I will be moving to a more lightweight DBMS so that this wont be needed. (I may try and get this sorted on Saturday if I'm off work)

+ If your not prompted and the application throws up an error just after you selected what team you wanted to scout then you may need to download the file SQLEXPR32.EXE located: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=31711d5d-725c-4afa-9d65-e4465cdff1e7&displaylang=en

+ If you DO have SQL Server and it gives an error at the same place then retry the scouting assignment, it worked for me there a moment or 2 ago on my virtual machine on the second attempt

daveharnett

Slight problem: can't install.

Unable to locate application file 'Setup.msi'.

See the setup log file located at 'C:\Users\dave\AppData\Local\Temp\VSD4FEF.tmp\install.log' for more information.

I can post the logfile too if that helps. Be warned though, it's long winded. Have the .net framework and sql server up to date.

Leadership

Does not install for me either, I get same error.

satory

I realise where I went wrong...

I was under the impression if you use the exe file it would check the prerequisites, like .Net and SQL Server and the MSI wont... what I didnt understand is that you just cant give out the exe you need both..


So heres then latest link...

http://rapidshare.com/files/412803645/Blackout_Scout.zip

crisco10

satory wrote: »

I realise where I went wrong...

I was under the impression if you use the exe file it would check the prerequisites, like .Net and SQL Server and the MSI wont... what I didnt understand is that you just cant give out the exe you need both..


So heres then latest link...

http://rapidshare.com/files/412803645/Blackout_Scout.zip

thanks, just installing now. ill give it a spin for tomorrows game! just requested a friendly over on the other thread, what tactics do you want me to play?

Hard luck last week, all that driving play meant the pens you gave away really cost you.

satory

Cheers crisco if you can agree either creative or expansive with someone else that would be perfect, if not you can chose and let me know afterwards...


http://rapidshare.com/files/412812587/Blackout_Scout.zip
Here is an updated install which should eliminate the need for the sql server 2005 download... But I haven't been able to test it fully so if some one can give it a shot and let me know if it works or not, and where it goes wrong that would be excellent...





My next step on Sunday will be to add junior matches and National/U20 match support to it, along with better error/exception handling now that more than I am looking at it. Once thats done and the friendlies have all been analysed I'll be providing a single file to replace the database and then start looking at Kicking tactics

satory

just ran the application over my match today and there was only a 5% swing in the tactics... It got PNG and Driving right, but Expansive was down by 5% giving that to creative, which isn't so bad overall.


Has anyone else whose download/installed it checked their own fixtures for today? how did it work out? or are there still some issues?

Phonehead

Hi Mate not working for me, I am running Windows 7 64. For the error I am getting the below may be a fix.

In drop menu "Build" is "Configuration Manager". You will see the tabel where one of columns is the column "platform" with Any CPU. There is drop menu. Use "New" option a then change this option on x86. Close Configuration manager and try.

krissovo

I get a sql32.dll error and when googled gives the above fix

satory

Phonehead wrote: »

Hi Mate not working for me, I am running Windows 7 64. For the error I am getting the below may be a fix.

In drop menu "Build" is "Configuration Manager". You will see the tabel where one of columns is the column "platform" with Any CPU. There is drop menu. Use "New" option a then change this option on x86. Close Configuration manager and try.

I already have that setting setup...

What does the error say? does the application startup at all? or is it in the installation thats causing problems?


@krissovo:

same questions as above, but does your error come after you have inputed the match commentary and fixture id?


EDIT::

Heres an updated version...
http://rapidshare.com/files/413084978/Blackout_Scout_v012.rar
I think I have solved at least one of those errors, but if I haven't can you please either grab the whole text of the error or a screen shot and when it occured, thanks in advance

When your inputting the match info, never mind about the squad selection thingy just yet. (its a work in process and doesnt affect anything at the moment)


I just got this error, not sure if its wide spread at the moment but if it is:
If you get a file cannot be opened error, just after you selected which team you want to scout navigate to:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Satory\Blackout Scout\Data, or
C:\Program Files\Satory\Blackout Scout\Data
and change the permissions of the file to allow all users full control

Leadership

New error now after I select the team to scout, here is the text:

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
Unable to load the native components of SQL Server Compact corresponding to the ADO.NET provider of version 8080. Install the correct version of SQL Server Compact. Refer to KB article 974247 for more details.


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3615 (GDR.050727-3600)
CodeBase: file:///c:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll

---

Blackout Scout
Assembly Version: 0.0.2.2
Win32 Version: 0.0.2.2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Satory/Blackout%20Scout/Blackout%20Scout.exe

---

Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll

---

System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3614 (GDR.050727-3600)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll

---

System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll

---

System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll

---

System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll

---

System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll

---

System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3082 (QFE.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll

---

System.Windows.Forms.DataVisualization
Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.116
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Satory/Blackout%20Scout/System.Windows.Forms.DataVisualization.DLL

---

Accessibility
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll

---

System.Xml.Linq
Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.1 built by: SP
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml.Linq/3.5.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.Linq.dll

---

System.Core
Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.1 built by: SP
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/3.5.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll

---

System.Data.SqlServerCe
Assembly Version: 3.5.1.0
Win32 Version: 3.5.8080.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Satory/Blackout%20Scout/System.Data.SqlServerCe.DLL

---

System.Data
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll

---

System.Transactions
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.3053 (netfxsp.050727-3000)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Transactions/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Transactions.dll

---

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

crisco10

Getting the following error just after I selected which team to scout.

Unhandels exception has occured in your application. If you click continue, the application etc...

Unable to load DLL sqlceme.dll. The specified module could not be found

Where can I get that DLL file?

Phonehead

Same error as Leadership even with new download, I wonder why it refers to win32 version when I have win64could that be my problem?

satory

crisco10 wrote: »

Getting the following error just after I selected which team to scout.



Where can I get that DLL file?

I can actually add that dll to the next release...

satory

Phonehead wrote: »

Same error as Leadership even with new download, I wonder why it refers to win32 version when I have win64could that be my problem?

im absolutly off my face right now so i'll sort it tomorrow some time...

I do know that the application was reselease as a 32bit applcaiation becasyuse SQL SERVER CE has/had troubles with 64 windows.. I know I cant run/build the application using the "any CPU" build due to the 54bit issue, so the application is now built for the 43 bit platform...

Im going to apologise here as this is my first app outside of a college environment and I never relezied the effort that goes into to just releasing it to everyone. I was always under the impression, "it just works..." so in terms of my development as a programmer this has helped immensly but for you guys this must be a pain in the arse.

satory

Okay... sober now



Jeremy has updated the api to include the match commentary and the way its done should to a certain extent clean up my DB of plays as I can now see the full "event"... Though I'll need to play around with this a little and look at the dreaded XML responses again but I'm optimistic for this now...

With regards to the next build and the fixing of some(if not all the current problems) I'm going to have to delay till Wednesday as I have finally gotten an interview on Tuesday :D:D:D:D:D:D:D.

But from having a quick read of the docs, I going to assume that Leadership, your running 64bit windows (vista or 7) right? it seems to me that both the 32bit version of SQL Server CE needs to be installed for this error go, but then you'll probably end up with crisco error, which im 100% sure is fixable in the next update.

Leadership

I am only running windoze XP on a 3 year old work laptop.

My main rig is Mac if you fancy doing a Mac version :-)