Andy Schleck

sxt

He has cycled brillantly well that last two tours especially...He is a great cyclist and will be forever be acknowleged as being a great for his era...Is Schleck getting stronger than contador?...based on improving results and the way Shleck looked at Contador on that last climb...as if to say i am as strong as you and i will get stronger...

Does anybody have an opinion on how this will pan out in the next couple of years?

tawfeeredux

sxt wrote: »

the way Shleck looked at Contador on that last climb...as if to say i am as strong as you and i will get stronger...

I thought Schleck's body language on that climb was all wrong. Proving to Contador that he could keep up with his rival's attack (& the poor attempt at an Armstrong stare) was not what that stage should have been about for Schleck if he's really going for the yellow jersey.

It looks to me as if he's still not convinced of his own ability, and of what his goals really are. What was he punching the air for after crossing the line? It's as if he thought he'd take contador on, but when he couldn't break him, pretended that the stage victory was what it was all about after all.

He needs to HTFU as far as I'm concerned. Not having the big brother around probably helped to that end as it turned out, but he still has a way to go. Should win Grand Tours in the future no doubt as he comes into his prime, but needs to show that he can take Contador while the Spaniard is still in his prime.

Eircom_Sucks

he's pig slow

he's consistant i'll give him that , contador took 42 secs off him on the last TT and 112 places between the 2

while contador is racing in the tour i dont see schleck winning it

must say well done to Roche up to 15th GC not bad at all

sxt

tawfeeredux wrote: »

I thought Schleck's body language on that climb was all wrong. Proving to Contador that he could keep up with his rival's attack (& the poor attempt at an Armstrong stare) was not what that stage should have been about for Schleck if he's really going for the yellow jersey.

It looks to me as if he's still not convinced of his own ability, and of what his goals really are. What was he punching the air for after crossing the line? It's as if he thought he'd take contador on, but when he couldn't break him, pretended that the stage victory was what it was all about after all.

.

Okay...now I see that that was probably the look of a defeated man...maybe that mechanical fault still haunted him from the previous stage...Do you think he maybe felt like he would have won the tour without that mechanical fault....?

blorg

I don't think it was that. They were evenly matched on that climb, that was the problem. Neither could get away. Only one needed to.

tawfeeredux

sxt wrote: »

Okay...now I see that that was probably the look of a defeated man...maybe that mechanical fault still haunted him from the previous stage...Do you think he maybe felt like he would have won the tour without that mechanical fault....?

I think it was the look of someone who either forgot what his goal was at the start of the stage or who decided that he wouldn't be able to put time into Contador & settled instead for proving that he was a match for Contador's attacks.

With the mechanical fault, i think that could only have provided motivation, but as to whether he would have won the tour without that, I'd be doubtful. He may well have been reeled back in by Contador even if he didn't have a mechanical, or may not have put enough time into him to make up for what he's assumed to lose in the TT.

Who knows, maybe he'll pull a Sastre-style TT out of the bag tomorrow?

BostonB

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

..while contador is racing in the tour i dont see schleck winning it

must say well done to Roche up to 15th GC not bad at all

I reckon the same.

Contador is just doing enough to win and no more. He never looks like hes working as hard as schleck or anyone else.

Morrisseeee

He's too......(how shall I put it).....nice........to win a tour atm, he should take up Contador's attitude, win at all cost, be more aggressive, or have a more cut-throat mentality !

ROK ON

Bland.

Slideshowbob

I think Schleck is not the full shilling. He comes across a bit dopey and aloof in interviews.

He talked alot about doing things in the hills but didn't ride clever.

On Tourmalet, why didn't he wait for sanchez and menchoz then make contador follow them and then attack contador.

He went on about his SRM showing accelerations 15 times on the hill - big deal.

He was happy to tow Contador along - he may go his whole career without a tour win because he is afraid to take a chance. What did he have to loose by slowing up on Tourmalet and mixing things up a bit.

Suprised too that Riis didn't get him to change tactics on radio either.

ednwireland

he's still young, traditional wisdom is you dont become a strong tour rider until your mid to late 20's.

breadbin

i don't especially like him but he is the underdog now and i'm shouting for him:) i did like the way he said he was angry in the interview after - showed he was human. contador is just emotionless.

Arthurdaly

breadbin wrote: »

i don't especially like him but he is the underdog now and i'm shouting for him:) i did like the way he said he was angry in the interview after - showed he was human. contador is just emotionless.

I quite like schleck, hes very competive and has bit of personality! When other sports are dying due to lack of personality and extreme professionalism I thought the battle on the tourmalet was great between these two guys!! Non cycling people have commentented to me on tour this year which speaks volumes!

DirkVoodoo

Arthurdaly wrote: »

I quite like schleck, hes very competive and has bit of personality!

I agree, plus his response to dropping his chain was quite admirable, totally went for it, no throwing his toys out of the pram. Big respect for him after this year!

Esroh

I knew he was a skinny but to be able to count his ribs thru the jersey.

on_the_nickel

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I think Schleck is not the full shilling. He comes across a bit dopey and aloof in interviews.

He talked alot about doing things in the hills but didn't ride clever.

On Tourmalet, why didn't he wait for sanchez and menchoz then make contador follow them and then attack contador.

He went on about his SRM showing accelerations 15 times on the hill - big deal.

He was happy to tow Contador along - he may go his whole career without a tour win because he is afraid to take a chance. What did he have to loose by slowing up on Tourmalet and mixing things up a bit.

Suprised too that Riis didn't get him to change tactics on radio either.

He can speak how many languages at the age of 23?

He needed to put time into Menchov, knowing he could be caught for second in the TT.

He doesn't have the jump to break away from Contador, all he could do was go as fast as he could and try and break him. It would have been interesting had he still been in yellow on the Tourmalet.....

Riis? Now if you think Schleck is a dope......

jwshooter

on_the_nickel wrote: »

He can speak how many languages at the age of 23?

He needed to put time into Menchov, knowing he could be caught for second in the TT.

He doesn't have the jump to break away from Contador, all he could do was go as fast as he could and try and break him. It would have been interesting had he still been in yellow on the Tourmalet.....

Riis? Now if you think Schleck is a dope......

we all would give the left one to have two podium places on tour at 23 as would any of the tour riders would .

he come across as a guy that is 23 and up for the it .he is a cracking character .

the look he gave contador was priceless

RO 06

Andy is 25. Quote from Fabian after TT

The Swiss rider said that he was very impressed with his team-mate, who is just 25 years of age and is surely a future winner.

IM0

whatever happens, they should not end up on the same team :eek: much better for us.

Orizio

As an aside, lot of big names had particurly mediocre rides - one wonders why?

Lumen

me@ucd wrote: »

whatever happens, they should not end up on the same team :eek: much better for us.

It worked out OK last year. Andy just needs to develop his inner Lance.

Mosiki

Schleck has improved this year, and will improve again between now and next year. He'll have that hunger (and anger) still fueling him for next years tour. I'll be having a few quid on him then.

I think Contador knew schleck had improved this year which is why he attacked during the chain episode, he was afraid he couldnt beat him, maybe he wasn't 100% himself. I dont like Contador at all, no particular reason, just the persona he emanates, reminds me of a guter rat. I wasn't an avid follower of schlecks until this years tour when he proved to be the only rider capable of competing with Contador in the mountains. The two of these guys will fight out the tour for a few years to come unless some new blood shows up.

Schleck for 2011.

ednwireland

Orizio wrote: »

As an aside, lot of big names had particurly mediocre rides - one wonders why?

most of em rode a very hard giro

dave.obrien

Is there a case that Contador being so much better as a grand tour rider, the other big names focused on the Giro/Vuelta knowing he'd be almost impossible to beat in the Tour? Personally, can't wait for the Vuelta.

baza1976

I'm going to show my ignorance(again). why is the tour over as a race???? why can't Schleck try and break away today??? Is he not allowed???

dave.obrien

Tradition is that the final stage is one where the riders hijack the camera men and swap places, and drink champagne and eat cake on their way to the laps of the Champs Elysees. It's all fun and games till then, then it's a sprint. It's pretty much the only unbreakable unwritten rule; GC contenders DO NOT attack on the last day.

TinyExplosions

dave.obrien wrote: »

Tradition is that the final stage is one where the riders hijack the camera men and swap places, and drink champagne and eat cake on their way to the laps of the Champs Elysees. It's all fun and games till then, then it's a sprint. It's pretty much the only unbreakable unwritten rule; GC contenders DO NOT attack on the last day.

Also there's no way anyone would be let get away... it WILL be a sprint finish on the Champs Elysees, and with Petacchi, Cav and Hushovd (along with the rest) wanting that glory means that any potential breakaway will be dragged back sharpish by the concerned teams

RobFowl

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Also there's no way anyone would be let get away... it WILL be a sprint finish on the Champs Elysees, and with Petacchi, Cav and Hushovd (along with the rest) wanting that glory means that any potential breakaway will be dragged back sharpish by the concerned teams

The only times I remember something else happening was when a souped up Vino jumped and also Jef Pierce from 7 Eleven in 1987 or so.

I'm with tiny on this one. This will definitely end in bunch sprint and Cav will win....

Slideshowbob

If this is Conto:

http://kaparich.homestead.com/files/BroRatFink_030.jpg

Then this is Sclack:

http://disney-clipart.com/Goofy/characters/Goofy-Bike.jpg

blorg

baza1976 wrote: »

I'm going to show my ignorance(again). why is the tour over as a race???? why can't Schleck try and break away today??? Is he not allowed???

It happened in 1947 and 1968 incidentally, the overall winner only took yellow on the last stage. The tradition had not been established by that point though; in 1968 for example the last stage was a time trial.

titan18

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Also there's no way anyone would be let get away... it WILL be a sprint finish on the Champs Elysees, and with Petacchi, Cav and Hushovd (along with the rest) wanting that glory means that any potential breakaway will be dragged back sharpish by the concerned teams

Isn't the time for GC ended on the penultimate lap, and then it's the sprinters turn to go?

corny

Contador has Schleck in his pocket and not just on the bike. Schleck is basically in awe of him.

First he agrees to work with Contador in the Alps. Not taking Contadors offer as a sign of weakness was bad enough but later in the tour he throws a tantrum after the breakdown only to accept a faceless half arsed apology from the Spaniard later on. The next day Contador was his best mate again. How that didn't fire him up i'll never know.

He also talked endlessly about waiting for the Pyrenees. I was expecting him to come out and die on the Mountains but yet again he spent the entire time fixated on what Contador was gonna do next.

Psychologically Contador beat him up the entire tour. In his interviews he talked about "controlling" Andy in the Mountains. Control him he did. Not for one second did he hesitate in seizing the advantage when Schleck ****ed up his chain. Call it unsportsmanlike if you wish but it demonstrates a ruthlessness Contador has that Schleck seems to lack.

He needs to grow a pair if he has any ambition of winning next years tour. Overall i think he had it in the legs to take Contador this year. Did he believe he had it? He's gotten too used to his white jersey if you ask me.

ednwireland

corny wrote: »

He needs to grow a pair if he has any ambition of winning next years tour. Overall i think he had it in the legs to take Contador this year. Did he believe he had it? He's gotten too used to his white jersey if you ask me.

a. he doesnt have that cushion next year

b. hes still young (contador was 25 when he first won)

c. hes only won his first stages this year

d. he doesnt seem to have that kick to destroy opponents (not his fault i doubt you can train that) mind neither did contador this year (only seen once on the second ascent of the tourmalet)

e. your prob right

f. we will see next year whether he rides away from anyone

Lumen

corny wrote: »

Psychologically Contador beat him up the entire tour. In his interviews he talked about "controlling" Andy in the Mountains.

You can't outclimb him. You can't out TT him. You can't isolate him from his team.

No amount of HTFU, aggression and psychology is going to overcome those challenges.

Maybe next year Frank should just run Vino over with the team car.

Liamo08

Lumen wrote: »

You can't outclimb him. You can't out TT him. You can't isolate him from his team.

No amount of HTFU, aggression and psychology is going to overcome those challenges.

Maybe next year Frank should just run Vino over with the team car.

I think the first day in the Alps he looked much stronger than Contador but only attacked in the last km so only put 10 secs in to him, if he had went for it earlier that day I think he could have done some serious damage. He seemed to be very focussed on the Pyrenees and didn't take his chances in the Alps when they were there.

BostonB

Seemed like Schleck was often on his own whereas Contador always seemed to have some of his team around him.

RobFowl

BostonB wrote: »

Seemed like Schleck was often on his own whereas Contador always seemed to have some of his team around him.

Usually Frank would be there but he went out early.

Personally I thought Andy rode a better race because his brother wasn't there. Last year he seems to take it easy at times to let Frank hang on.

I'd agree with some of the posters above in that he does seem to lack the killer instinct.

tunney

Orizio wrote: »

As an aside, lot of big names had particurly mediocre rides - one wonders why?

Could people have been rider cleaner?

corny

Lumen wrote: »

You can't outclimb him. You can't out TT him. You can't isolate him from his team.

No amount of HTFU, aggression and psychology is going to overcome those challenges.

Maybe next year Frank should just run Vino over with the team car.

Like Liamo said above the race was there for him in the Alps. It was plain to see Contador was out of sorts and yet all we got from Schleck in the Alpine stages was a couple of kilometres of attacking. IMO his legs had a lot more in them than that.

Slideshowbob

Andy Schleck - post Tour interview: "But now I know that I can beat Alberto and that gives me huge confidence and motivation for next year."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/andy-schleck/from-school-renegade-to-tour-star

eh Andy - how do you know you can beat him when you didn't do it convincingly on 1 single stage of the Tour this year?

Plain and simple AS is a waffler - he waffled before this year's Tour, he waffled during it, and now he is waffling after it about next year's Tour.

It's gas the way the english-speaking media give this guy so much coverage just because he can speak english but Contador can't.

Also, he puts AC beating him in the TT down to the fact AC is more aerodynamic - eh no Andy - he is just a better cyclist.

Orizio

tunney wrote: »

Could people have been rider cleaner?

Thats what I was implying yes.

BostonB

I never got the impression at any point that Contador couldn't ride away from Schleck. Or that Contador wasn't confident that he could.

MrCreosote

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Andy Schleck - post Tour interview: "But now I know that I can beat Alberto and that gives me huge confidence and motivation for next year."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/andy-schleck/from-school-renegade-to-tour-star

eh Andy - how do you know you can beat him when you didn't do it convincingly on 1 single stage of the Tour this year?

Plain and simple AS is a waffler - he waffled before this year's Tour, he waffled during it, and now he is waffling after it about next year's Tour.

Completely disagree with this. You make it sound like he was smashed by 10minutes. 39seconds isn't really that much- a bad prologue and the chain incident were each worth that.

Contador is better for sure, but it wouldn't take much to overturn 39 seconds.

Liamo08

BostonB wrote: »

I never got the impression at any point that Contador couldn't ride away from Schleck. Or that Contador wasn't confident that he could.

This was definitely true last year but there was a big difference this year. Contador looked to be suffering a lot more on the climbs and he wasn't able to follow Schleck on the stage to Morzine - Avoriaz, Schleck looked incredibly strong that day and I think he missed a big opportunity to put serious time into Contador by attacking too late. I also don't think he wouldn't have been doing track stands on the stage to Ax 3 Domaines if he was confident he could drop Schleck.

BostonB

He was never suffering that much that anyone was in doubt about the result.

mloc123

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Also, he puts AC beating him in the TT down to the fact AC is more aerodynamic - eh no Andy - he is just a better cyclist.

Oh I dunno, I would like to see the power stats for each of them... Contador certainly looked to have a much better tuck.

Liamo08

BostonB wrote: »

He was never suffering that much that anyone was in doubt about the result.

So you didn't have a bit of doubt when Schleck was ahead in the TT after 20km? As I said on another thread I think it was obvious from the TT result that Contador was a long way from the form that he was in last year.

dave.obrien

Contador was off the pace that he usually sets, but he was still miles ahead of Schleck this year. He won by 39 seconds cause that's all he needed to win by. He could have put huge time into him on the finish at the Tourmalet, but why bother? He was already winning, he just needed to maintain the gap. Schleck's TT was epic, but out of character, and even then didn't do enough to bother Contador. And while AC may have gained from the chain incident, it was time he could have gotten elsewhere if he'd needed to. If anything, it probably only made Schleck work harder, and the whole race tighter.

For the recors, I am a fan of neither men. But it's unquestionable that AC is still streets ahead of Schleck.

ednwireland

dave.obrien wrote: »

Contador was off the pace that he usually sets, but he was still miles ahead of Schleck this year. He won by 39 seconds cause that's all he needed to win by. He could have put huge time into him on the finish at the Tourmalet, but why bother? He was already winning, he just needed to maintain the gap. Schleck's TT was epic, but out of character, and even then didn't do enough to bother Contador. And while AC may have gained from the chain incident, it was time he could have gotten elsewhere if he'd needed to. If anything, it probably only made Schleck work harder, and the whole race tighter.

For the recors, I am a fan of neither men. But it's unquestionable that AC is still streets ahead of Schleck.

no, schlecks was average, contadors v poor , i would have expected an on form contador to be up with menchov tbh (although contador seems to go better on hillier TT's)

dave.obrien

Totally disagree, I think that was Schlecks best TT in a Grand Tour. Despite that, he didn't worry an off form AC.

Also, yeah, the lumpier the TT, the better you'll see out of AC. Flat stuff he seems ok with, but specialises in up and down courses.

Liamo08

dave.obrien wrote: »

Totally disagree, I think that was Schlecks best TT in a Grand Tour. Despite that, he didn't worry an off form AC.

Also, yeah, the lumpier the TT, the better you'll see out of AC. Flat stuff he seems ok with, but specialises in up and down courses.

Ehh not really Schleck was 21st in the final TT last year and 44th in the TT this year. Even taking into account the increased wind as the day went on that's not exactly an amazing improvement year on year.

I don't get the logic of the people who are saying Contador won easy, do you think he was just making it exciting for the fans or whats the reason that he didn't put time into Schleck if he so easily could have?