Pros/Cons of Supplements

jawn

Hey all,

I'm gonna try keep this nice and simple.

I've been doing a lot of arm, ab and chest excercises for the past few months.
I've very low body fat, but my muscles still don't seem to be getting bigger/defining.

I was wondering if any of you knowledgeable folk out there could suggest a supplement that will aid in muscle size and definition. [preferably one available in Dublin City]

I'm an 18 year old male by the way.

My last question is, if I take a supplement and only workout my stomach, arm and chest muscles, will there be an "unattractive" weight gain in other parts of my body.

I'm sorry if this seems vague, I'm just looking for advice instead of just taking a supplement that I don't really know anything about.

Peace out,
John.

Oisinjm

This post is just a stopgap really until someone more knowledgeable gets their hands on the thread. But basically, you shouldn't be doing just arms, chest and abs. You'll end up with muscle imbalances among other things. Do all of your body, try something like Starting Strength. Secondly, before you go on any supplements or people start recommending you supplements, whats your diet like?

jawn

Cheers man.

My diet is normal I guess.

I eat my main meals, and take in the required calories and nutrients.

I'm just looking for something that's going to boost muscle size and definition.

I eat a lot of natural protein, but it doesn't seem to be enough.

Peace.

Oisinjm

Could you post up an example of your daily food intake? Being honest theres no need for any of the more 'flash' supplements out there. If you want to bulk up you need to get more calories into you. I'd just go for a basic protein supplement. For example the ones found on Myprotein.co.uk or ON Whey protein

Diabhal_Glas

jawn wrote: »

I've very low body fat, but my muscles still don't seem to be getting bigger/defining.

Read this John, you may have the body type ectomorph by the sounds of it..

jawn

But what I don't want is to start taking a protein supplement and realise it's doing more bad than good. Eg, fat gain.

How do I go about working that out?

Oisinjm

1g of protein per pound you weigh is a good measurement. But if you're lifting heavy weights, a good diet, and aren't too excessive in your calorie surplus you won't get fat.

As I said before, I can't stress how much I think you should get a proper program instead of just arms, abs, chest.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

jawn

I'm looking into that program.

Thanks for your help man!

jawn

Also, will whey protein alone help make muscles more defined?

EileenG

One of the best supplements to make you bigger is testosterone, and before you start screaming, I don't mean the illegal kind. I mean the extra testosterone your body will make itself IF YOU START SQUATTING. Seriously, there is a study where one group trained just arms, and the other group trained arms and legs. The arms and legs group got bigger arms, even though they only had half the time to work on them.

Heavy lifts like squat and deadlift will boost testosterone and growth hormone, both of which will make everything big.

Khannie

I heard that you need to squat / deadlift very heavy to achieve that hormonal response, anyone know if that's true? (sorry for the off topic OP)

Khannie

jawn wrote: »

Also, will whey protein alone help make muscles more defined?

No it wont. It's just protein.

jawn wrote: »

I eat a lot of natural protein, but it doesn't seem to be enough.

I have limited understanding of bulking, but I know this: If you're not gaining then you're not eating enough. Try adding a glass of milk to every meal and see where that gets you. A "clean" (i.e. minimising fat gain) bulk should have a calorie surplus, but not too large (i.e. not more than 500 calorie surplus per day type of thing).

Mostly people will bulk, knowing that they're adding fat, then diet to shed the fat they've gained but leave the muscle behind.

Killme00

Oisinjm wrote: »

This post is just a stopgap really until someone more knowledgeable gets their hands on the thread. But basically, you shouldn't be doing just arms, chest and abs. You'll end up with muscle imbalances among other things. Do all of your body, try something like Starting Strength. Secondly, before you go on any supplements or people start recommending you supplements, whats your diet like?

Is there a formula for perfect mucle balance? Doesnt everyone have muscle imbalance? And what are the amoungst other things?

TommyKnocker

Killme00 wrote: »

Is there a formula for perfect mucle balance?

No Expert, but I don't think there is a formula for perfect muscle balance other than common sense.

Killme00 wrote: »

Doesnt everyone have muscle imbalance? And what are the amoungst other things?

Yep, I am sure the majority of folks have muscle imbalances. i.e. The dominant side will be stronger then the opposing side in most folks. But why would you specifically train in a fashion which would lead to further or more exaggerated muscle imbalances?

By just training the "Beach Muscles" (abs, chest and biceps) you may end up with a 1 pack (if your deit and training are not optimised for fat loss), Biggish biceps with no tricep or forearm developement, so as well as an imbalance in your arm muscles, they will look out of whack visually and Moobs (again diet dependant) but hunched back as you did not work your back, so you chest muscle will pull your shoulders forward. And all this perched on spindly matchstick legs. This will not be an attractive physique and once attained will require a lot of work to remedy and correct.

Best to start off with a propperly designed program which develops the whole body, so you end up with a strong and astetically pleasing physique. There is a lot more to the Human body, health and fitness than well developed pecs, abs and biceps.


Best Regards,

M

d'Oracle

Khannie wrote: »

I heard that you need to squat / deadlift very heavy to achieve that hormonal response, anyone know if that's true? (sorry for the off topic OP)

I know that, like everything else in fitness research, I have read stuff that says there is no connection to hormonal response from doing anything.
I have also read stuff to affirm it. I don't really believe anything anymore.

As a more direct response, I remember when an 90kg squat felt very heavy, so I guess if I assume that homeostasis can be disrupted through training lots of muscles heavy, (and I regularly do both) then it what is heavy is down to what you are capable of.

Khannie

Killme00 wrote: »

Is there a formula for perfect mucle balance?

Crossfit.


/me runs

mloc

jawn wrote: »

I've been doing a lot of arm, ab and chest excercises for the past few months.
I've very low body fat, but my muscles still don't seem to be getting bigger/defining.

There's your problem. Two things:

a) You're not going to get noticeably bigger in any reasonable time frame doing those exercises.

b) If you're maintaining a low body fat but not growing, then you're simply not eating enough.

So, two things to do:

a) Start squatting, deadlifting, heavy benching (get someone qualified to show you how to bench properly, no half reps) and overhead pressing. Go heavy.

Make those exercises the fundamentals of every workout and go hard enough that any other exercises you do are auxiliary. For arms, throw in some dips and chins. For chest, those dips will help but maybe some incline bench too. You'll want to keep your back strong too, bent over rows will sort that.

Make sure you are doing everything right, with a full range of motion, and favour good technique over weight every time.

b) Eat more. Eat lots more. Don't worry about supplements just yet. Eat lots of whole foods, tons of chicken, tuna, veg, oily fish, good fats from nuts (walnuts are great). If you find you really can't get the protein in, consider a basic whey supplement. That's really all you need. Really.

If you do those two things and you aren't considerably bigger in 6-8 weeks, you haven't been doing those two things.

Dathai

Just a suggestion if you're looking to gain more muscle mass. I'd say do a about 3-4 months of strength training and then do about 2 months of German Volume Training. I'd say go back to the strength training after that for a while, and then repeat as needed.

A friend of mine who was quite skinny tried it and is noticeably bigger and is considerably stronger than he was a few months ago.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm - GVT article. I'm currently doing it to hit different fibers, but with different exercises. I'll go back to strength training again in a few weeks. I don't give a monkey's about having big massive muscles so I can't really comment on gaining definition and getting beefcaked.

Zamboni

Khannie wrote: »

Crossfit.


/me runs

CrossFit: making men smaller and women bigger since 1995

/runs too

jawn

Everyone, thanks for the replies.
I'm gonna try mloc's suggestion and see how I get on.

EileenG

Khannie wrote: »

I heard that you need to squat / deadlift very heavy to achieve that hormonal response, anyone know if that's true? (sorry for the off topic OP)

True, but you should be doing that anyway. Legs and back are big muscle groups, you need to thrash them to make them grow. You don't need to do it all the time. Lifting to failure on every set doesn't seem to produce any better results than lifting to failure once per session. In fact, there are some studies which show that lifting to failure is not necessary if you lift heavy enough, and reduces risk of injury.

Khannie

EileenG wrote: »

to make them grow

Not interested in muscle growth for the next few years. In fact quite the opposite. I'd like to maximise strength for the same muscle size / weight.

d'Oracle

Khannie wrote: »

Not interested in muscle growth for the next few years. In fact quite the opposite. I'd like to maximise strength for the same muscle size / weight.

Far too complicated for me to comprehend.

Oisinjm

Killme00 wrote: »

And what are the amoungst other things?

Basically if you have muscle imbalances, you'll find that you pick up injuries on a much more frequent basis. Thats irrespective of whether or not you play sports, you'll do yourself an injury lifting weights aswell.

Khannie

d'Oracle wrote: »

Far too complicated for me to comprehend.

Hahahaha. I'll break it down for you: I want to be small and strong while I'm still a fighter. After that I want to be big and strong so I can stuff my face with a lot of delicious things and not be fat.

d'Oracle

Khannie wrote: »

Hahahaha. I'll break it down for you: I want to be small and strong while I'm still a fighter. After that I want to be big and strong so I can stuff my face with a lot of delicious things and not be fat.

Interestingly I am reading a Bill Starr article on Isometric Isotonic training. Which is supposed to do that.....

Although no details on how to do it yet, all history in this one.