Suggestions on bulking/workout program after P90X?

Kenny_D

Hi guys,

First time poster, long time browser

I started P90X around march/april and followed it rigidly for about 6 weeks then I got the flu followed by an indulging holiday and never really got back into it. My diet was very good during the P90X but had fallen off track a bit since I got sick and stopped working out. Finding it hard to get back into the P90X now because it feels too similar and Tony Horton can get on your nerves after a while. haha. It's also pretty intense working out 6 nights a week for 1-1.5 hours at a time. Want to cut back to 3 nights of mostly weight training. I have just been doing the odd night over the last 2 months of situps, pushups, curls and chinups. Just so I feel like I'm doing something in between but would like to get back into a full body routine

Anyway I was happy with the results I saw from the P90X but did notice it was more about getting lean. Have heard good things about starting strength, stronglifts and crossfit so I'm thinking of trying one of those.

I'd like to bulk up a bit while keeping somewhat lean (My bodyfat is 8-10% which I'm very happy with). I'd like some proper training from someone with good knowledge not just of lifting but also of nutrition/diet. Tempted to try out Crossfit based on some of the things I've seen on here. Need something I can do in the evenings mon-fri. Maybe 2-3 times per week.

Would this be suitable for me? I've never done much more than pushups, chin ups, dumbbells etc. I'd like to start lifting heavy and doing deadlifts, bench press, squats etc. Would need advice on technique as I'm not long after pulling a muscle in my back and dont want to touch deadlifting without proper advice.

Anyway here's the results of the change I made in 2 months with P90X:



Just took those "after" shots last night. I'm very happy with the change over 2 months but I feel I could get better results with proper training and bulking up as I'm pretty skinny. I'm 10 stone and 5ft 10. Don't seem to put on or lose weight. Have been pretty much bang on 10 stone for the last few years

Any advice/help is appreciated. Thanks

Ray Mond

Hi I'm new to this site too
I've been working wit a personal trainer for 6 weeks doin mainly weight training, great training it is but I haven't really seen great results I'd love to lose body fat and get more muscle definition you look like u got great results in 2 months. I've never heard of that program that uve done wat is it ? Wat was ur diet llke while doin it?

Kenny_D

Hi Ray. Have a look here for more info on P90X:

http://www.beachbody.com/product/fitness_programs/best_sellers/p90x.do?tnt=P90X_SHAKE_A1&code=BBHOME_CONTROL_P90X

It's basically a 90 day intensive workout. 6 days a week split into alternating days of cardio/weight training. Each weight training session works out a different muscle group. There's also a nutrition plan to follow. The first four weeks is low carbs high protein to trim the bodyfat then the next four weeks the workouts get more intense and you need the extra carbs for the workouts. This then becomes the standard diet for the rest of the program.

I ate very lean during the first four weeks which is how the definition came through I guess. Only ate a small portion of carbs and some protein in the morning then it was protein and lean meat/veg or fish for the rest of the day. Lots of tuna, salmon, herring, turkey, lean mince/steak and lots of stir fry veg, broccoli, carrots, beans, veggie burgers etc. Also cut out all sugary/carby snacks and junk food and drank litres of water per day. Had 1 protein shake a day, made with water or slimline milk, for breakfast or if I was hungry I'd have 2 scrambled eggs on wholemeal toast (no butter of course). And after every workout I'd have a Recovery XS drink from MyProtein. Also tried to eat every 3 hours so a handful of unsalted mixed nuts or a homemade protein pancake became my snack of choice between meals.

I really should get back into the diet and up my calorie intake but dont want to lose too much definition so want to get into a good strength program first before I start loading up on food.

So any thoughts on what program might suit me?

Doug Cartel

Go for stronglifts or starting strengths, combined with a see-food diet. (If you see food, eat it.)

ray jay

alternatively http://www.forum.mynutrition.ie/showthread.php?t=2

Kenny_D

ray jay wrote: »

alternatively http://www.forum.mynutrition.ie/showthread.php?t=2

Interesting read but not exactly what I was planning. I dont want to do a "bulking phase" where I lose my definition but want a good lifting routine while increasing my calorie intake to just put on a bit more muscle mass. I guess this is what I meant by bulking (building muscle mass rather than putting on a load of weight first). I'm just under 10 stone which is less than 140 pounds. I think I can get some better results with a proper trainer. This is why I'm looking for a good trainer/gym/program that has good knowledge of both lifting/nutrition.

d'Oracle

GStormcrow wrote: »

Interesting read but not exactly what I was planning. I dont want to do a "bulking phase" where I lose my definition but want a good lifting routine while increasing my calorie intake to just put on a bit more muscle mass. I guess this is what I meant by bulking (building muscle mass rather than putting on a load of weight first). I'm just under 10 stone which is less than 140 pounds. I think I can get some better results with a proper trainer. This is why I'm looking for a good trainer/gym/program that has good knowledge of both lifting/nutrition.

I'd imagine this Gentleman is the kind of fella you are looking for.
He posts on here a fair bit.

http://www.thetransformationcatalyst.com/

Dermotsull13

The results look great. Fair play to you. I was looking at doing something like P90x recently. What sort of equipment did you purchase to make the most out of the program?

Kenny_D

Thanks d'Oracle, funnily enough I was looking at doms videos on youtube last night and thats what brought crossfit to my attention.

@Dermot:
Not a whole lot. One of those doorway pull-up bars and a set of dumbbells. Already had a mat I use for the ab workout and I got a heartrate monitor as well for the cardio. You don't need much equipment so to speak for p90x, you need time though. It's intensive. The diet plays a HUGE part in it as well

TommyKnocker

GStormcrow wrote: »

Interesting read but not exactly what I was planning. I dont want to do a "bulking phase" where I lose my definition but want a good lifting routine while increasing my calorie intake to just put on a bit more muscle mass. I guess this is what I meant by bulking (building muscle mass rather than putting on a load of weight first). I'm just under 10 stone which is less than 140 pounds. I think I can get some better results with a proper trainer. This is why I'm looking for a good trainer/gym/program that has good knowledge of both lifting/nutrition.

Hi There

If I am correct, the information on that link covers the two methods of "Bulking"

• The see food method (if you see food you eat it)
• The small calorie surplus (circa 500 cals daily)

With the see food diet you will put on fat weight as well as lean weight (if you are lifting heavy enough and often enough to illicit muscle growth).

The main pro of this method is rapid weight gain (and hopefully strength gains, routine dependant).

The main con is that there will be a fair bit of fat weight gain also which will have to be dieted off at a later date.

With the small calorie surplus you can limit the amount of fat gained.

The main pro of this method is that less fat is gained.

The main con is that it takes longer to make lean mass and strength gains.

As I am 47 (no spring chicken ) I chose the second method and used the Strong Lifts 5x5 program. I started off at the end of last July (2009) at 11st 2lb @ 13.7% body fat and this April I had made it to 12st 3lb at 12.4% body fat. I have since come down to 11st 11lb at 11.1% body fat. Once the summer is over I intend to use the same method to get up around 13st as I think I can handle this extra weight

So if a middle aged guy can do it, there is no reason why you can not do it also. What you will need is

• A good solid and proven routine
• A good clean diet which is around 500 calories over your maintenance figure
• Consistancy in both your eating and workout routines
• Patience as the gains will be slow but steady.

Please note that I am no expert and have no qualifications what so ever in either nutrition or physical training. The above is simply what worked for me.


Best Regards,

M

d'Oracle

GStormcrow wrote: »

Thanks d'Oracle, funnily enough I was looking at doms videos on youtube last night and thats what brought crossfit to my attention.

I mentioned Transform cos you seem to be disinterested in the idea of putting fat on while you get bigger/stronger and you mentioned getting a trainer. Seemed to fit his philosophy.

The lads at Crossfit Ireland are also great guys, know their stuff and put a good bias on getting strong. So if you are interested in Crossfit you would do well to check them out. ( www.crossfit.ie )

ray jay

B-Builder wrote: »

If I am correct, the information on that link covers the two methods of "Bulking"

• The see food method (if you see food you eat it)
• The small calorie surplus (circa 500 cals daily)

Indeed the link advocates the second style as being more appropriate for people who want to retain their definition year-round, which is what the OP seems to be after.

GStormcrow you might find this site useful too.

kala85

hey op do you feel any stronger after the p90x program?

Kenny_D

kala85 wrote: »

hey op do you feel any stronger after the p90x program?

Yup, when you first start p90x you record your number of chinups, pushups etc. Also you record your weight used and number of reps for every single exercise every day. I could see that I was able to lift a lot more weight by the 6/7th week from looking at my record sheet. Also I went from being able to barely do one chinup to be able to do about 10 unassisted now so you deffinitely notice a difference

Fr Dougal Mcguire

Do you have to pay to get the info for the P90X program???

jugger0

Id suggest squats and milk, google it, not for the faint hearted tho it involves 20 rep squats. You will get bigger thats for sure and you shouldnt be worrying about gaining fat theres not an ounce on ya. Starting strength would be a great investment too. Do both and report back with the results!

flashforward

What weight and bodyfat % were you before the program?

The pictures look like a huge transformation - so what I'm asking is did you manage to lower bf% and increase muscle mass at the same time?

And if so, is this to be expected with this program or are you one of the lucky ones?:D

d'Oracle

Fr Dougal Mcguire wrote: »

Do you have to pay to get the info for the P90X program???

Yes.

Unless you are cool with copyright theft.

kazzer

Dont over do it on the food - you will just get fat. You have made great progress and are looking really lean. You cant eat your way to getting more muscular. It takes time and food is not a shortcut or a substitute for heavy intense lifting. Thats what gets you bigger. Too many calories will just make you fat.

kala85

i was thinking about starting this program , but my primary aim is to build strength. would i be better off building strength or doing a strength training program , instead of doing this first. or do the p90x program to tone up and use it as a base to build strength later...

also i dont want to lose to much bulk as i have lost a lot of weight and muscle due to all the cardio i have done over the past 3 months.

d'Oracle

kala85 wrote: »

i was thinking about starting this program , but my primary aim is to build strength. would i be better off building strength or doing a strength training program , instead of doing this first. or do the p90x program to tone up and use it as a base to build strength later...

also i dont want to lose to much bulk as i have lost a lot of weight and muscle due to all the cardio i have done over the past 3 months.

No offence buddy, but the answer is in the question.
Work on building strength if you want to get strong.

COH

kazzer wrote: »

You cant eat your way to getting more muscular. It takes time and food is not a shortcut or a substitute for heavy intense lifting. Thats what gets you bigger

You have to eat your way to more muscle. Food isn't a short cut, its a necessity. Heavy intense lifting will get you precisely nowhere if you dont eat

Kenny_D

flashforward wrote: »

What weight and bodyfat % were you before the program?

The pictures look like a huge transformation - so what I'm asking is did you manage to lower bf% and increase muscle mass at the same time?

And if so, is this to be expected with this program or are you one of the lucky ones?:D

I was already low enough bf% before starting. I have it written down somewhere at home but I'm pretty sure I was 10% and i'm now around 8%. So yes I think I did manage to cut bf% and put on a little mass at the same time. I prob would have had better results had I ate more. I think the goal of p90x is to both gain mass and cut bodyfat hence the split in the diet.

I dont think I'm one of the lucky ones though I do seem to have a high metabolism so I guess this helps with the weight end of things. There's plenty of videos on youtube which shows that if you put the effort into doing p90x by the book then it would be almost impossible not to see good results. There's no huge secret to p90x. Its a mix of good regular exercise and a clean diet. Bound to see a difference after 3 months.

Cheers for the suggestions so far. Have emailed Dom to find out more about crossfit and I'm starting back into p90x in the meantime to keep active

artoffitness

Any updates on your progress dude?
The pics were great. Good on you!!
Some people are naturally lean. If your body type is Ectomorph, research shows your musclefibres are more aerobic, and you will find it harder to gain. SO would be interesting to see how you got on?
Have you stuck with the Cross Fit?

Kenny_D

Cheers. Interesting timing as I just started back into p90x on tuesday night. I tried Crossfit and while I was very impressed with every aspect of it, I can't afford it right now (new car purchase). I will most likely join next year though.

Only getting back into the p90x now due to a muscle injury in my back which was at me for last 3 months so trying to take it easy starting back. Have lost a bit of definition but hoping to rectify that in the next month or two. Back on a more strict diet as of this week and have switched from my regular protein supplement (True Whey) to Hurricane XS which is an all in one supplement promoted for gains.

Hard to stick with it so hoping that I can get back into the swing of things. Noticed I could only get about half way through the chest/back p90x workout this week before being wiped. I used to knock that out no problem so guess I have to pace myself now. Still had the reps/figures in my head from when I last did it so obviously not quite ready for that just yet. Easy does it

I'll post back if/once I get back into it and see any more changes