Why no express bus to Cork from Dublin??

konstruktsiya

Not really a query, more a general moan - WHY oh WHY is there not a dedicated non-stop bus service between Dublin and Cork? The train is great but is too expensive and the online cheap tickets are rarely available at convenient travel times (eg Friday evenings), and when they are, sell out in about 3 seconds. Citylink and GoBus go non-stop to Galway on the motorway, you can drive to Cork in less than 3 hours, so whyyyyy wont Bus Eireann or Aircoach or somebody put on a dedicated express service? I know sometimes BE have express services when they have overspill from other services, but that is informal & you can't plan in advance around it. Old complaint I know, but why does it have to be so difficult to travel in this country?!!

konstruktsiya

I know there's flights too, but you'd need to book ages in advance to get a good deal. Spontaneous travel is not easy in Ireland!

Colm R

The route is not licensed yet. And I believe from reading this forum, licensing is an issue which is badly handled by the department of transport, the operators or all of the above.

You can get lucky though on the route. Sometimes at busy times, they can load all people going the full route on one bus, and all others on a different bus if demand requires. But thats down to pure luck.

devnull

I heard someone from Citylink talking about the fact they applied for such a route previously but were told there was a prior application, that was months ago though and we all know how long the applications take.

It's interesting that Bus Eireann do run two buses in the situations where they have enough to do so, if a private operator did that they would be in trouble for breach of license no?

Run_to_da_hills

I don't think Iarnrod Eireann would approve of it.

novarock

the blue aircoaches go direct from dublin to cork...

devnull

Aircoach don't stop in as many places as Bus Eireann and obviously serve the airport as well when Bus Eireann do not but they are not direct, there are no direct services at present.

Aircoach is timetabled for 3hr 50 mins from city centre to city centre whilst Bus Eireann is 4hr 25mins.

There are 13 services a day in each direction that do not involve a change of bus, 7 Aircoach and 6 Bus Eireann, although there used to be a 6am Aircoach which was discontinued.

From Dublin or Cork
7:00 Aircoach
8:00 Bus Eireann
9:00 Aircoach
10:00 Bus Eireann
11:00 Aircoach
12:00 Bus Eireann
13:00 Aircoach
14:00 Bus Eireann
15:00 Aircoach
16:00 Bus Eireann
17:00 Aircoach
18:00 Bus Eireann
19:00 Aircoach

konstruktsiya

I've got the Aircoach before, it is faster than Bus Eireann but still stops at so many places and the road is pretty bad for much of the trip which makes for uncomfortable travelling - I remember trying to sleep on one once and being continually jolted awake by the rattling.

devnull

Didn't find the roads that bad on the motorways and the main roads last time I was on the Dublin to Cork run but some of the roads around the places we stopped were indeed not great.

It is a shame there is also not wifi on the Dublin to Cork run also.

Stark

konstruktsiya wrote: »

I've got the Aircoach before, it is faster than Bus Eireann but still stops at so many places and the road is pretty bad for much of the trip which makes for uncomfortable travelling - I remember trying to sleep on one once and being continually jolted awake by the rattling.

Yeah I remember taking the Aircoach before as I figured I could get some work done on the bus. I couldn't use a laptop at all on some of the roads, we were being shaken around so much. During the brief times when we used the motorways, the ride was lovely and smooth. There also didn't seem to be wi-fi on the bus I got, whereas I had made my decision to go the Aircoach route based on being told they had wi-fi.

devnull

They have Wifi, but only on the new coaches that are on the Greystones and Ballsbridge and Sandyford routes.

Victor

Bus drivers are entitled to a break every 2 hours. A coach can't cover the distance in that time.

salutations

novarock wrote: »

the blue aircoaches go direct from dublin to cork...

Are you sure?? There's nothing about this on their website.

KC61

salutations wrote: »

Are you sure?? There's nothing about this on their website.

http://www.aircoach.ie/table.routes.cork.php

This is the service that novarock is referring to.

It is a stopping service and not non-stop.

KC61

Victor wrote: »

Bus drivers are entitled to a break every 2 hours. A coach can't cover the distance in that time.

I think that you are mistaken Victor (or otherwise Gobus and Citylink drivers must change on board while driving on the motorway?).

Drivers can travel 4.5 hours before they must have a break.

Mushy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I don't think Iarnrod Eireann would approve of it.

Must be awful for a company to have to charge competitive prices with a good service alright:pac:

I've always wondered why there is no express bus, it'd make perfect sense now with the motorways. Even if it just stopped in Urlingford then back onto motorway.

veryangryman

Mushy wrote: »

Must be awful for a company to have to charge competitive prices with a good service alright:pac:

I've always wondered why there is no express bus, it'd make perfect sense now with the motorways. Even if it just stopped in Urlingford then back onto motorway.

+1

National Express in UK do a service Sheffield-London which changes drivers at a services after ~100 miles. No real break or anything - the drivers just change, then back on the road. What do you lose in time? 5 minutes maybe.

I would say Portlaoise Midway or Horse And Jockey would be ideal spots for such a change.

Screw the red tape over it. If Citylink were brave enough to give 2 fingers to regulation on D-G direct, why not do the same with this. Its a no-brainer to do a non-stop route, which benefits all companies involved.

Even Irish Rail would still have the odd gombeen who "only takes the train". If your one of said gombeens and reading this, i have an off-topic question - WHY use a train in situations when the bus can get you to your destination quicker. DOnt say the legroom or the tea/coffee on board because those are gombeen answers!

DWCommuter

Its only a matter of time before its licensed for a non stop private operator with coaches that offer free wi-fi. This route is a lucrative one and the CIE group can only hold it back in the 20th century for so long, just like they have held public transport back since their inception.

devnull

KC61 wrote: »

I think that you are mistaken Victor (or otherwise Gobus and Citylink drivers must change on board while driving on the motorway?).

Drivers can travel 4.5 hours before they must have a break.

Yes, although normally during trips of over 3 hours or so there is a break somewhere but it is not required.

Aircoach and Bus Eireann take a 10-15 break in Urlingford half way to/from Cork.

Difference with what Citylink did to Dublin to Galway is they already had a license between the two cities, just not an express one, they have nothing for Dublin to Cork.

Cookie_Monster

veryangryman wrote: »

Even Irish Rail would still have the odd gombeen who "only takes the train". If your one of said gombeens and reading this, i have an off-topic question - WHY use a train in situations when the bus can get you to your destination quicker. DOnt say the legroom or the tea/coffee on board because those are gombeen answers!

maybe speed isn't essential. maybe comfort and a toilet and the ability to walk around is more important.

devnull

I normally go by coach - trouble with train is it's not hugely quicker, and unless you want to have not much choice on times, it's more expensive too.

Stark

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

maybe speed isn't essential. maybe comfort and a toilet and the ability to walk around is more important.

That only affects a few people with bladder problems and/or leg problems such as thrombophilia. Half of whom would probably be travelling on free passes anyway. Certainly not enough people to keep Irish rail in business.

Cookie_Monster

Stark wrote: »

That only affects a few people with bladder problems and/or leg problems such as thrombophilia. Half of whom would probably be travelling on free passes anyway. Certainly not enough people to keep Irish rail in business.

it also affects those who want to bring a crate of cans with them when they travel

but in general I agree. my point was more of a personal choice one, some people may simply want to have access to a toilet or have kids and find it easier to travel by train or any number of other reasons. Just because the bus is faster is not a reason for everyone to want to get it.

KC61

DWCommuter wrote: »

Its only a matter of time before its licensed for a non stop private operator with coaches that offer free wi-fi. This route is a lucrative one and the CIE group can only hold it back in the 20th century for so long, just like they have held public transport back since their inception.

When it comes to bus route approvals the Department of Transport has treated everyone pretty much the same way be it Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann or private operators - leaving them hanging for months if not years before resolving licence applications or notifications.

To suggest CIE are responsible for the lack of a non-stop coach service between Dublin and Cork (certainly in recent times) is being somewhat disingenuous I would suggest. Such a service would not have been viable prior to the motorways being finished.

Maybe someone has applied for such a service - we just don't know because it is not freely available information.

Victor

KC61 wrote: »

I think that you are mistaken Victor (or otherwise Gobus and Citylink drivers must change on board while driving on the motorway?).

Drivers can travel 4.5 hours before they must have a break.

I though that long distance and local services were treated differently. Surely sitting in one position for 4.5 hours at 100km/h isn't very practical.

KC61

Victor wrote: »

I though that long distance and local services were treated differently. Surely sitting in one position for 4.5 hours at 100km/h isn't very practical.

That's what the EU regulations state Victor!

When I looked at them at the weekend the 4.5 hour limit was the only one specified.

It certainly is not 2 hours as that would render Citylink's non-stop services impossible.

Stark

It could certainly take over 3 hours to reach Urlingford on a bad day before the motorways took most of the traffic off the old roads.

BenShermin

KC61 wrote: »

That's what the EU regulations state Victor!

When I looked at them at the weekend the 4.5 hour limit was the only one specified.

It certainly is not 2 hours as that would render Citylink's non-stop services impossible.

Without a doubt, one only has to look at the 002 Dublin Airport to Rosslare Harbour service. I do believe that route is timetabled to take just under 4 hours with no designated breaks for the driver nor his/her passengers.

SandyfordGuy

I was on Aircoach this weekend and it appears they are now installing Wifi on their older coaches. I was on a Setra on the way to Cork and a Scania on the way back and they both had Wifi access although my brother was on the coach after me that didn't.

Driver told me that they were in the process of fitting wireless to all the older coaches and should be complete in a few weeks, and they are around about half way through on these, whilst all the 08/09 ones had Wifi as standard when delivered.

Chris_5339762

4.5 hours is overkill especially when bladders fill up. Citylink Cork - Galway was bad enough at 3, 3 1/2.

markpb

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Driver told me that they were in the process of fitting wireless to all the older coaches and should be complete in a few weeks, and they are around about half way through on these, whilst all the 08/09 ones had Wifi as standard when delivered.

Remember that when Irish Rail are telling people that Wifi isn't needed and if they really, absolutely have to provide it, they should pay for it. Truly a company in touch with their customers.

BazNuge

I see IE have stuck on a 2 euro "booking charge" on all online transactions. Fun fun. So one way to Cork is now €38.

Might as well buy it in the Station, there was no advantage to buying in advance unless you turned up early to get your "guaranteed" seat!

Stark

Ah sure, there's a new toll on the M8 now. We can't have Irish Rail falling behind now can we?

BenShermin

BazNuge wrote: »

I see IE have stuck on a 2 euro "booking charge" on all online transactions. Fun fun. So one way to Cork is now €38.

Might as well buy it in the Station, there was no advantage to buying in advance unless you turned up early to get your "guaranteed" seat!

Welcome to C&T Baz.

To be fair there is plenty of €10 and €20 one way fares available to/from Dublin/Cork online if you book off peak.

With regards "guaranteed seats", my friend and I kicked two passengers out of OUR seats a few weeks ago who already started to eat their packed lunch. They were none too happy:D.

BazNuge

BenShermin wrote: »

To be fair there is plenty of €10 and €20 one way fares available to/from Dublin/Cork online if you book off peak.

They're getting skinnier on the ground - gone is the Sunday afternoon Cork to Dublin for €20. I wish CIE would let you get a better price if you book in advance, well in advance, but I have to do the friday-sunday thing (lady in Cork :cool:) so no joy for me!

BenShermin wrote: »

With regards "guaranteed seats", my friend and I kicked two passengers out of OUR seats a few weeks ago who already started to eat their packed lunch. They were none too happy:D.

Oh, i had a lovely gentleman, seemed like your stereotypical Italian pensioner, who was bellowing "you will regret this" at the inspectors. When I took my seat, which he was in in, he told me "congratulations for buying a seat" before storming off to the dining cart.

Anywho...I think its just that €2 charge for "booking" that's got my bile back up. Until the express bus comes, I'm gonna have to start driving down, be guts of €20 cheaper per journey, and faster. I haven't been on a train i can remember that did Dublin-Cork in 2.45.

devnull

The €2 booking charge just puts me even more away from using the train. I prefer to travel with Aircoach personally, If I'm going to Cork for the weekend or so I'd get the 7am out to Cork and the 7pm back. Not only is it around half an hour quicker than Bus Eireann, but the first departure is an hour earlier and the last is an hour later.

If the train was a bit cheaper I'd use it a lot more, but when I can get a bus for €22 return when I don't have to travel at certain times to get a decent price, it's a no brainier for me. Generally in other countries I prefer rail travel but the cost I don't think is worth it here. I've been hit by the recession and to pay €76 to travel on the train the times I want or to pay €22 euro return, there is little to no contest for me.

T Corolla

BenShermin wrote: »

Welcome to C&T Baz.

To be fair there is plenty of €10 and €20 one way fares available to/from Dublin/Cork online if you book off peak.

With regards "guaranteed seats", my friend and I kicked two passengers out of OUR seats a few weeks ago who already started to eat their packed lunch. They were none too happy:D.

The cheapest one way fair to Cork is 10euros on the 10am train arriving that the only service with 10euros all the rest are 20 and 36euros. The cheapest return is 30 euros arriving in Cork at 1pm leaving Cork next day at 18:30 arriving Dublin 21:25. I can see why the 10euro fares are less likely on this service. I looked at booking a fair on 24Aug returning the next day and the online application and the outbound service is 60% booked.

devnull

I notice that Bus Eireann ran a Dublin to Cork direct service on every departure and vice versa yesterday, I know there was a match on, but I have seen them do this even when there is not any events on before.

So what I am wondering is how is this allowed when they do not have a contract to do so. It is no different than what Citylink done, as they also operated a direct service when they only had a license for a stopping service.

foggy_lad

devnull wrote: »

I notice that Bus Eireann ran a Dublin to Cork direct service on every departure and vice versa yesterday, I know there was a match on, but I have seen them do this even when there is not any events on before.

So what I am wondering is how is this allowed when they do not have a contract to do so. It is no different than what Citylink done, as they also operated a direct service when they only had a license for a stopping service.

they are just running an extra bus that takes up the slack so they put all cork passengers on the express and the other bus does the stops in between.

devnull

But on some departures Citylink were full too but the excuse didn't work for them?

I agree that if a bus is full they should be able to provide an extra bus on the same route so everyone can travel, but in some cases these buses are being scheduled to operate, regardless if one is needed or not.

BazNuge

It annoys me they do run direct buses, but never tell anyone!

The one time I took the CityLink direct to Galway, it was such a refreshing difference from the Cork bus. I mean, bar the stops at the toll gates, i dozed nearly all the way.

Bring on the Rocketbus!

KC61

Devnull - I would refer you to the extract below from the public service contract which does permit the operation of auxiliary departures.

In this Contract the following words and expressions shall have the meaning
herein assigned to them unless there is something in the subject matter or
context inconsistent with such meaning.
13.1.1 “an Auxiliary Departure” means a departure on a route that is referred
to in Schedule A that departs as close to the timetabled departure as
safe and as operationally possible, serves all or some points of the
route and terminates on that route, which is deployed for the purposes
of accommodating unanticipated additional demand for a Scheduled
Departure on that route; and
13.1.2 “Scheduled Departure” means a departure that is referred to in the
published timetable or on the Bus Éireann website at
www.buseireann.ie that is referred to in Schedule A or in that website
that is updated from time to time with the approval of the Authority
following the making of this Contract.
13.2 A reference to a departure of a service on a route referred to in Schedule A
shall, unless otherwise stated in the timetable for that route, be regarded as a
reference to the departure of a single bus.
13.3 Subject to Clause 13(5) and (6), the Operator may deploy buses to facilitate
Auxiliary Departures on a route referred to in Schedule A, where the Operator
determines reasonably on any given day that there is additional demand for the
deployment of such departures which could not have been reasonably
anticipated.
13.4 The approval of the Authority is not required in respect of the deployment of
an Auxiliary Departure that operates for not more than 15 Working Days,
consecutively or otherwise, within a period of not more than 3 Months
provided the Operator informs the Authority of the operation of that departure
within 5 Working Days of the first operation of that departure and that the
departure otherwise complies with this clause.
13.5 The following departures shall not be regarded as being Auxiliary Departures-
(a) any departure on a route that is additional to a Scheduled Departure
for that route that does not comply with the definition of an Auxiliary
Departure set out in Clause 13.1;
(b) any additional departures on a route that is referred to in Schedule A,
including departures that would otherwise comply with the definition
of an Auxiliary Departure set out in Clause 13(1), but do not comply
with the provisions of Clause 13.4; or
(c) any non-scheduled departure on a route that is referred to in any
schedule or timetable published or displayed in any format by the
Operator or any other operator which provides services on a
subcontracting basis to the Operator in respect of the route in
question.
13.6 It is agreed that:
(a) where the Operator proposes to deploy or deploys additional
departures to which Clause 13(5) refers, it must apply for the prior
approval of the Authority, in a manner to be determined by the
Authority to the operation, of that service providing any details that
the Authority may require;
(b) the Authority shall consider an application made under paragraph (a)
having regard to section 52 (5) of the Act of 2008 and Clause 4 and
may approve or reject the application or impose conditions; and
(c) where the Authority approves an application, the departure in
question shall be regarded as being part of the Scheduled Departures
on the route in question for the purposes of this contract.
13.7 Any departures operated in accordance with the arrangements set out in this
Clause shall not attract additional subvention to that to which this Contract
relates.

devnull

But my question still remains, is why are Bus Eireann allowed to do this and other operators are not? I can understand them offering extra buses on the same route as per their license, but not how they are allowed to operate a nonstop bus and a non-nonstop bus.

In the Citylink case it was argued that they were operating extra departures directly via a different stopping pattern to the license they held and that was not allowed?

KC61

devnull wrote: »

But my question still remains, is why are Bus Eireann allowed to do this and other operators are not? I can understand them offering extra buses on the same route as per their license, but not how they are allowed to operate a nonstop bus and a non-nonstop bus.

In the Citylink case it was argued that they were operating extra departures directly via a different stopping pattern to the license they held and that was not allowed?

Read the definition in clause 13.1.1 above which allows the relief service to serve all or some points of the route:

“an Auxiliary Departure” means a departure on a route that is referred
to in Schedule A that departs as close to the timetabled departure as
safe and as operationally possible, serves all or some points of the
route and terminates on that route, which is deployed for the purposes
of accommodating unanticipated additional demand for a Scheduled
Departure on that route; and

As for Citylink - they were operating two timetables at the time devnull - it was not just a case of operating relief services.

One would need to query the NTA/DoT and the terms of their licence with regard to operating relief services.

antoinolachtnai

But this is an expressway service surely? The public service contract has nothing at all to do with Expressway services.

Terrontress

Dr. Michael Grimes of Kells Transport was saying that the Aircoach buses regularly treat the regulations with an element of flexibility, especially as regards reduced speed limits.

I can't see why they don't just run a non-stop service.

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

But this is an expressway service surely? The public service contract has nothing at all to do with Expressway services.

Fair point.

KC61

Terrontress wrote: »

Dr. Michael Grimes of Kells Transport was saying that the Aircoach buses regularly treat the regulations with an element of flexibility, especially as regards reduced speed limits.

I can't see why they don't just run a non-stop service.

I would tend to take everything that man says with copious quantities of salt.

Terrontress

KC61 wrote: »

I would tend to take everything that man says with copious quantities of salt.

Well he certainly is a passionate man and he backs up his assertions with proof. I have seen videos he has made where he trails the aircoach and sits behind it at a fixed distance and proves by his own speedo that the aircoach is exceeding the speed limit for buses.

To be honest, people always call for Michael O'Leary to be appointed to various offices. President, Taoiseach and the head of numerous state agencies.

I'd have Dr. Grimes as head of CIÉ.

KC61

Terrontress wrote: »

Well he certainly is a passionate man and he backs up his assertions with proof. I have seen videos he has made where he trails the aircoach and sits behind it at a fixed distance and proves by his own speedo that the aircoach is exceeding the speed limit for buses.

To be honest, people always call for Michael O'Leary to be appointed to various offices. President, Taoiseach and the head of numerous state agencies.

I'd have Dr. Grimes as head of CIÉ.

This is a man who was disqualified by the High Court from being a liqiuidator for seven years and his ability to be an auditor or director limited?

http://www.courts.ie/__80256F2B00356A6B.nsf/0/5B689B0F7C6BA8ED80256CD700223066?Open

Get real!

Cookie_Monster

Terrontress wrote: »

Well he certainly is a passionate man and he backs up his assertions with proof. I have seen videos he has made where he trails the aircoach and sits behind it at a fixed distance and proves by his own speedo that the aircoach is exceeding the speed limit for buses.

To be honest, people always call for Michael O'Leary to be appointed to various offices. President, Taoiseach and the head of numerous state agencies.

I'd have Dr. Grimes as head of CIÉ.

does he take into account that his own speedo will overread to a certain extent.

but I have followed enough trucks and coaches to believe that the limiters either don't work or are not active most of the time. BE buses especially seem to often be well above 100