Public Toilets & Boys?

LegacyUser

Hi all, I am a single mam with an 8 year old boy. I'm wondering what the rest of you do when out and about in public and your son wants to use the loo? Recently, we were in a shopping centre in Dublin (blanchardstown) and I brought him into the ladies as I've always done. I went in with him myself and stayed in the cubicle with him etc. We were in and out in a second. Outside, a young woman approached me saying she didn't think it was appropriate to have such a 'big boy' in the girls toilets. I explained that I didn't want him to use the mens public toilets just yet and that his dads not involved, and it's only ever both of us on these shopping trips. It was a saturday afternoon and there were queues for both the men and womens loos. She had a couple of daughters with her, who she said felt uncomfortable with my son in the ladies and said it was 'against the law' (which I'm sure it's not). The daughters were about 4 or 5 and didn't bat an eyelid at my son - it was obviously the mother who didn't want my son there.

What do others do? I really don't want to send him into mens toilets in public places just yet, but I don't want to be approached by other mothers every time we need to use the loo. Thanks.

Nevyn

I have brought my son with me into the ladies when he was that age.
It's only recently that he uses the gents on his own and even then I am waiting outside for him. I have never had anyone give out to me for having him the ladies, and that would include the ones you have mentioned.

LegacyUser

And what age is your son now Thaed? What age did you start letting him use public mens toilets?

Penny Dreadful

I have no children but would never in a million years think anything of a woman bringing her son into the toilets with her. What else is she supposed to do if she is out on her own with the child?
As for that woman who came up to you to complain, you were in a cubicle with your son and she was with her daughters so its hardly as though there was anything on display for the world at large to see is it?
Some people:(

Nevyn

He's 12 and it's only in the last year or so that he uses the Gents.
He asked to as he didn't feel comfortable being in the ladies nd we had a chat
about what do in the gents and not to talk to anyone and to wash his hand and
not to delay and come right out.

smurph11

I think your job is to look after your son & protect his welfare. And even though I'm not a parent yet I would be very wary of sending a young child off to a public loo alone. You'd never forgive yourself if anything did happen to him so until he's old enough to be wary himself you have to keep your eyes on him. And don't let someone else's opinion affect your better judgement. Oh and there's definitely no laws being broken

LegacyUser

I knew there were no laws being broken alright -she said she had a 'right' to complain once the child was over 6 and that I was breaking the law. I was googling it ever since and (of course) can't find anything on it anywhere....
Yes I reckon around 11 or 12 is young enough to let him start using public loos, advising him of the possible dangers.
I remember seeing my neighbours kids in a pretty large t*sco one day. They were being minded by her childminder. I was walking into the ladies with my (then 5yr old) son and the minder was standing at the door of the gents shouting 'Hurry up X..we have to go to the shops'.
X at the time, was 3! And she let him into the gents toilets on is own....my stomach was sick and I had to tell his mam later that day (in a nice way) . Not sure if she ever did anything about it, but I couldn't let it pass. The thoughts of a 3yr old boy in a gents public toilet alone....even now it terrifies me!

Nevyn

Let her complain, if anyone ever says anything to you gain tell her to go talk to the management in the centre.

Khannie

What an eejit. It's not like he's looking at a load of bare naked breasts or whatever.

I had a close call as a youngfella using the gents toilets in Bewleys on Westmooreland street so I would be VERY wary of letting any child use the loo on their own.

I'm actually laughing at the illegal bit. HAHAHA.

Zen65

Unregistered wrote: »

What do others do? I really don't want to send him into mens toilets in public places just yet, but I don't want to be approached by other mothers every time we need to use the loo. Thanks.

So I'm guessing that you've always taken him to the ladies' public toilets? It took 8 years before you met a woman so caught up in herself that she thought it appropriate to complain about it? I imagine it will be a good while before you encounter another soul who would think the same way.

In any event your son will eventually decide he does not want you to take him to the ladies, and hopefully by then he will have learned enough to know how to manage in that situation.

You are right to look after your son's welfare in this way. Be sure to prepare him for the inevitable solo trips and all will be well.


Be at peace,

Z

ThePiedPiper

So, what should a father when out and about with a baby if nappies need to be changed? A huge amount of public toilets or those in restaurants, etc. only have baby changing facilities in the ladies room. I've been lucky enough that my wife is with me the times that there's no changing facilities in the mens but there's been times on my own where my only option is to run back to the car and change baby there.. I'm not sure how welcome I'd be in the ladies room with my baby. God knows, there's enough people who think it odd to see a man out and about on his own with a baby without changing nappies in ladies rooms!! Any of you ladies got any opinions on this?

Moonbeam

If they aren't gonig to provide the facilities in both then I don't see that you have much choice.
I find usually that they are in the disabled toilet which also causes issues.

littlebug

My 5 year old already moans about having to go to the ladies toilet but no way would I let him into the mens on his own. As an aside I think it's actually harder for fathers out and about town with daughters

CrazyRabbit

If it's a busy area with lots of traffic in the gents, then I don't see the harm in letting a boy of aged 6/7+ use the gents on his own. Even if there was a 'dodgy' person in there, they wouldn't try anything with all the other guys around.

My friend was terrified of letting her 7 year old son use the gents on his own. But now, whenever we are out together and he needs to use the gents, I just stand outside the door, and he knows to call me if there is anything that makes him scared, or if anyone even speaks to him.

In the last 100+ visits to the gents (he has a bladder the size of a pea), the only thing of interest was a homeless guy washing his clothes in a McDonalds.

I mean seriously, what's the worst that can happen if you're standing just outside the door and there's plenty of normal law abiding guys in the gents with the boy?

More media hysteria making us think there are predators lurking in every shadow.

LegacyUser

OP here.
Have to completely disagree with your CrazyRabbit. It's nothing to do with hysteria in the media. There are many paedophiles who lurk in kids restaurants (mcd's etc)/near kids playgrounds or schools. Many of them. I'm not saying that they would commit a crime if the toilets were full of 'law abiding' people, but I don't want to give any of them the opportunity of even seeing my 8yr old going to the loo in a mens toilet.
To be a paedo, you don't have to have been convicted of a crime.
And I'm not a hysterical irish mother protecting her son. I work in victim support and the most (what could be considered minor) incidents on a young child involving sexual assault/abuse can and do have the most severe impact on any human being.

Redpunto

Dont bother explaining yourself to anyone who says something to you, you are protecting your child from a "threat" and you do not have to explain yourself to anyone.

Up till last year I used to bring my son into the girls swimming changing rooms - nobody batted an eyelid. Kids are kids at that age, its the mother just wanting to cause drama

Redpunto

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I mean seriously, what's the worst that can happen if you're standing just outside the door and there's plenty of normal law abiding guys in the gents with the boy?

More media hysteria making us think there are predators lurking in every shadow.

I hell of a lot could happen....

zuroph

11 before you're allowed in the jacks on your own?!

the world is gone fuppin mad.

metrovelvet

Take no notice. But if youre really worried, use the disabled toilets.Theyre unisex.

KittyeeTrix

Ooooh, I'm glad I didn't meet that woman:mad:

I'd have had a few choice words for her but I would've warned her to get her little darlings to cover their ears with their hands first!!!!!!

How bloody dare she accost you for bringing your son into the bathroom with you..........

For all she knows your son may have had a recent operation in his nether regions or may have been dyspraxic like my 8 year old son and require some help with self care routine. To say I would've blown up at the nosey good for nothing is a bit of an understatement!!!!!!!!

Calm down Fluffy, clam down......I'm fuming for you OP...

My older sons didn't use the gents alone until they were 10 but exceptions for some kids need to be made and other parents should be aware of this and butt the hell out:(

For crying out loud, your son was in a cubicle!!! It's not like bringing an 8 year old girl into the gents where men are exposed at urinals which is the reason why I'd never consider allowing my 8 yr old boy into the gents alone!!

nicky chick

I wouldnt care wat anyone said Ive a nine year old and wouldnt let him use the gents loo on his own. I take him in to the ladies with me

byhookorbycrook

metrovelvet wrote: »

Take no notice. But if youre really worried, use the disabled toilets.Theyre unisex.

Errr, no,they are for people with disabilities,who need to use the loo and very often can't wait.

metrovelvet

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Errr, no,they are for people with disabilities,who need to use the loo and very often can't wait.

It's also where alot of baby changing facilities are placed. It's also often the only place that fits a buggy in it, so they are not exclusively for the disabled.

Nevyn

RunForestRun wrote: »

So, what should a father when out and about with a baby if nappies need to be changed? A huge amount of public toilets or those in restaurants, etc. only have baby changing facilities in the ladies room. I've been lucky enough that my wife is with me the times that there's no changing facilities in the mens but there's been times on my own where my only option is to run back to the car and change baby there.. I'm not sure how welcome I'd be in the ladies room with my baby. God knows, there's enough people who think it odd to see a man out and about on his own with a baby without changing nappies in ladies rooms!! Any of you ladies got any opinions on this?

Most mothercare stores have a baby changing room and a lot of shopping centres have a baby changing room which is separate to the toilets, I know that the shopping centre in questions (Blancharstown) does.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

Most mothercare stores have a baby changing room and a lot of shopping centres have a baby changing room which is separate to the toilets, I know that the shopping centre in questions (Blancharstown) does.

The other things you can do, which I often did in NYC where there are no baby changing facilities anywhere, is to change the baby in the buggy or pram somewhere descreet.

PopUp

Thaedydal wrote: »

Most mothercare stores have a baby changing room and a lot of shopping centres have a baby changing room which is separate to the toilets, I know that the shopping centre in questions (Blancharstown) does.

Yep and if you are unfortunate enough to be in a shopping centre that expects only women to ever need to change a baby, complain, complain, complain to the management! It's the only way this stuff will change.

Nevyn

I know a Dad who changed his childs very dirty nappy on the information desk to make the there was no where in the shopping center he could do so privatly.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

I know a Dad who changed his childs very dirty nappy on the information desk to make the there was no where in the shopping center he could do so privatly.

That's disguting. I've been in plenty of places where there are no facilities and managed to do it discreetly. Retailers dont owe people changing stations. What a noob.

KittyeeTrix

Thaedydal wrote: »

I know a Dad who changed his childs very dirty nappy on the information desk to make the there was no where in the shopping center he could do so privatly.

Fair play to him, I'd imagine that got the point/smell across very effectively:D

KittyeeTrix

metrovelvet wrote: »

That's disguting. I've been in plenty of places where there are no facilities and managed to do it discreetly. Retailers dont owe people changing stations. What a noob.

Retailers owe the people who come into their establishment a proper place to deal with bodily functions. This should extend from babies to the elderly with no exceptions....

As you quite rightly pointed out it is disgusting but even more so that a child would be expected to sit in a soiled nappy as a simple changing station couldn't be provided for them!!

metrovelvet

No they don't actually. Penneys for example doesn't have toilets. Neither does carphonewarehouse, or any number if retailers.

What? You'd plop your baby's dirty ass on the checkout counter, risk everyone's health and embarrass the checkout person just to make a point?

Why not take your baby in the pram into a quiet corner or the changing room and do it there?

I have such little sympathy for it because I lived in a city where there were none and you dealt with it. Same in the south if France, where I dont recall seeing one changing station, with the exception if the airport, which was a seperate room from the adult facilities.

Little My

I know its a slightly different situation.

But I have stopped going to a local pool because of boys who seemed to look around 8 - 9 in the ladies changing room.There was no cubicles so you have no choice but to get changed out in the communal area. Too many times I was trying to wriggle out of a wet swimsuit with a towel around me and boys aged (looked like) about 9 or 10 staring at me.

The mothers were always preoccupied with sorting out whatever child there were getting dressed, so they didn't notice little Johnny or whatever staring at the lady trying to get changed.

CrazyRabbit

Little My wrote: »

I know its a slightly different situation.

But I have stopped going to a local pool because of boys who seemed to look around 8 - 9 in the ladies changing room.There was no cubicles so you have no choice but to get changed out in the communal area. Too many times I was trying to wriggle out of a wet swimsuit with a towel around me and boys aged (looked like) about 9 or 10 staring at me.

The mothers were always preoccupied with sorting out whatever child there were getting dressed, so they didn't notice little Johnny or whatever staring at the lady trying to get changed.

Paranoid mothers....turning kids into perverts!

CrazyRabbit

Unregistered wrote: »

OP here.
Have to completely disagree with your CrazyRabbit. It's nothing to do with hysteria in the media. There are many paedophiles who lurk in kids restaurants (mcd's etc)/near kids playgrounds or schools. Many of them. I'm not saying that they would commit a crime if the toilets were full of 'law abiding' people, but I don't want to give any of them the opportunity of even seeing my 8yr old going to the loo in a mens toilet.
To be a paedo, you don't have to have been convicted of a crime.
And I'm not a hysterical irish mother protecting her son. I work in victim support and the most (what could be considered minor) incidents on a young child involving sexual assault/abuse can and do have the most severe impact on any human being.

I don't mean to be rude or aggressive, but I think you are paranoid. You really think paedophiles need to hang around playgrounds, schools & toilets to see a child naked/semi-naked? One word; internet.

You're trying to protect your child from a perceived risk which is fact quite minuscule. I would say that bringing an older child into the women's toilets is potentially more harmful and embarrassing to them. And even if someone did take a quick peek, how would that in any way harm your child?

Redpunto wrote: »

I hell of a lot could happen....

Exactly what do you think could happen within about 30 seconds, in a room with perhaps 3-6 decent people? Mr Pedobear may be a seriously mentally ill creep, but he ain't stupid enough to try anything in those circumstances.


If anyone is going to abuse your child, it is far more likely to someone you know rather than random, rare paedophile hanging around the toilets in McDonalds. And secondly, sexual assaults against kids in toilets are extremely rare.

zuroph

Unregistered wrote: »

There are many paedophiles who lurk in kids restaurants (mcd's etc)/near kids playgrounds or schools. Many of them.

Can you substantiate that please? Any link to proof? or is this just hearsay?

KittyeeTrix

I don't understand why 1 or 2 posters are jumping up and down having a bloody fit because some parents choose to keep their younger kids close to them and have a more heightened fear of paedophiles than others........

Each to their own I say, what harm is it doing anyone to keep a keen eye on your kids..... I tell my own kids that there can be some dangerous people about the place but it is very unlikely that they'll ever run into them but just to be aware etc

I don't have my kids so fearful that if a stranger even looks remotely their way they will fall to pieces but I do want them to know that not everyone is nice as pie!!!

A friend of mine living in a sprawling newly established council housing estate in Galway was not surprised when the locals exposed a paedophile living 5 doors from her and the council evicted him.

What she found laughable was that previous to this the kids on the street had been allowed to roam free unsupervised and following the man's eviction the parents kept the kids in. My mate said it was hilarious that they fear more the danger when in the open rather than the hidden lurking one!!!

Nevyn

all sorts can be happening in a public toilet, you simply don't know what you could be sending your 5 year old son into and I understand why mothers wil bring the boy into the laidies then have him unaccompanied in a public toilet.

It could be anything from someone swearing, a fight, a drug deal, someone shooting up or any number of anti socail acts which can go on in a public toilet as they are usually not monitored.

Khannie

zuroph wrote: »

Can you substantiate that please? Any link to proof? or is this just hearsay?

I think more than zero is many where your childs safety is concerned. As I said, I had a dodgy punter try to lure me into a toilet when I was a lad. I don't see the point in taking chances. Sure if the toilet is busy it's grand, but what if it's not?

littlebug

Ah now it's not all about paedophiles. even my eight year old daughter likes me to go with her as she once got locked in a loo (she was with her father and had to shout out to him) so she likes to check that she'll be ok with the lock while I'm still there before she closes the door. I also like to see that where they're going is clean and has loo roll... don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I have let my 5 year old son into a mens toilet on his own but only because I knew there was no one else there and the door and window were open so I would hear him if he needed help. By help I mean with door.... buttons... anything else that might happen. I can't imagine taking him to the ladies when he is 8 as he is already complaining about it.

What about men with young daughters? WHat do you do re toilets in town ? The other awkward one then is a man taking his son into the gents... can a daughter be left outside on her own? It's all very awkward I have to say and after one really awkward incident a few years back my husband rarely brings them both to town on his own. (it was bring 3 year old girl +baby in buggy into a urine soaked really stinky gents or nothing). Not good.

metrovelvet

I'm trying to remember what my father did when he had me. I think I was brought into the gents., very quickly!

zuroph

Khannie wrote: »

I think more than zero is many where your childs safety is concerned. As I said, I had a dodgy punter try to lure me into a toilet when I was a lad. I don't see the point in taking chances. Sure if the toilet is busy it's grand, but what if it's not?

1 is not many. 2 is not many, not in a population of 4 million. and so far we have no proof of it being a regular occurence like some people are making it out to be.

Nevyn

1 in a million chance is 1 too many if it happens to your child, which is why caring parents are careful and try to protect thier kids in practical ways.

zuroph

Thaedydal wrote: »

1 in a million chance is 1 too many if it happens to your child, which is why caring parents are careful and try to protect thier kids in practical ways.

but you take your children in cars right???Much more likely to be injured killed like that than by a stranger lurking in a public bathroom, yet its ok, because it doesnt have the same "sex offender" fear attached.

KittyeeTrix

zuroph wrote: »

but you take your children in cars right???Much more likely to be injured killed like that than by a stranger lurking in a public bathroom, yet its ok, because it doesnt have the same "sex offender" fear attached.

Yes, but we strap them into various life saving devices etc and we cannot avoid travelling by car whereas we can avoid subjecting our child to the advance of someone in a gents toilet!!!

bugler

zuroph wrote: »

1 is not many. 2 is not many, not in a population of 4 million. and so far we have no proof of it being a regular occurence like some people are making it out to be.

Everyone has to make a judgement call when it comes to safety. That applies to walking home from school, going to the shop and everything else.

Khannie is proof on this thread alone that certain individuals do try certain things in toilets. We didn't have to poll the country for someone who was the subject of unwanted attention in a bathroom.

Why the bathroom? Because it is a chance to be alone with a child. That's good enough. Forget about this "They wouldn't try" lark. Certain individuals will try anything. They are compelled to. Why did the guy Khannie encountered try it in a café toilet? The bathroom is a vulnerable place for a small child. They are alone, whether you are outside the door or not.

There may be a case for increased unisex bathrooms, though these are not always practical due to space constraints (you need cubicles obviously).

It's a shame that the only toilet attendants I ever see are in niteclubs or bars. They could be better employed in a high street / shopping centre environment, and I'd actually tip them there too

Nevyn

I know of one child when he was 7 went to the public gents and was orally raped,
he was out of his mother's sight for 12 mins, she could see the toilets from where she was and even saw the guy leave. That was 15 years ago, it tore the family apart they all needed counselling, they even moved country to try make a clean start and he was in and out of counselling due to this for years, esp when he became a very angry teen.

Car crashes can be devestating but we take all the precautions we can with speed limits and air bags and seat belts. I see nothing wrong with taking other precautions when it comes to protecting my kids and not letting them use public bathrooms is one of many.

Often those who are not parents don't understand why we will take certain precaustions
fair enough, but until you are a parent there are some things you won't understand.

pickarooney

At what age would people recommend letting their daughters use public toilets alone?

silja

When I lived in Dublin and visibly pregnant, I was asked a couple of times by a father out alone with a young daughter (one maybe 4, the other maybe about 6) if I would bring them in the ladies with me, as I was going anyways. I suppose I was seen as safe I was happy to help. Similarly, when I worked at an event, my male co-worker was asked by a mother if he could escort her 8 year old son to the gents. He felt weird about it and declined though.

j1974

Unregistered wrote: »

Hi all, I am a single mam with an 8 year old boy. I'm wondering what the rest of you do when out and about in public and your son wants to use the loo? Recently, we were in a shopping centre in Dublin (blanchardstown) and I brought him into the ladies as I've always done. I went in with him myself and stayed in the cubicle with him etc. We were in and out in a second. Outside, a young woman approached me saying she didn't think it was appropriate to have such a 'big boy' in the girls toilets. I explained that I didn't want him to use the mens public toilets just yet and that his dads not involved, and it's only ever both of us on these shopping trips. It was a saturday afternoon and there were queues for both the men and womens loos. She had a couple of daughters with her, who she said felt uncomfortable with my son in the ladies and said it was 'against the law' (which I'm sure it's not). The daughters were about 4 or 5 and didn't bat an eyelid at my son - it was obviously the mother who didn't want my son there.

What do others do? I really don't want to send him into mens toilets in public places just yet, but I don't want to be approached by other mothers every time we need to use the loo. Thanks.

do what you feel you like and dont mind anyone else. I'm sure jamie bolgers mam would agree.

gaeilgegrinds1

I'd have no problem with this. I mean, women have privacy in the cubicle! The big problem lies with men with babies I think. My OH had our baby our recently and said changing facilities etc are full of women who glare at men. I'd think it was nice to see a man involved enough to want to change his child. Some people! A solution to all this would be a mens, womens and parents bathroom.

magicray

I have three sons and have to say I always took them in to the ladies with me if my hubby wasnt around, my oldest fella is grand to go in by himself now and take his brothers if need be but if Im out with my youngest two theres no way they would be allowed into the gents loo on their own

I honestly dont think that the majority of women have a problem with it as you are in a cubicle !

I think its harder if a man has a daughter that needs the loo - he really cant being her into the gents, I have been asked before to keep an eye on a little girl using the ladies while her Dad waited outside - again I have no problem with that