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Farcical Scores...Inflated Handicaps???

  • 21-07-2010 4:02pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭


    Just wanted to have a little vent...

    Our Captains day was 2 weekends ago. There have been a number of dubious scores coming in over the last couple of months, but this just took the biscuit!!!

    The winning score was 49 points by a player playing off 26 who hasn't placed in a single other event this year. By my reckoning thats beyond a joke. Theres usually a reason someone is playing off 26, to score 49 points with that handicap you've got to be shooting somewhere in the mid 80s, which most people playing off 26 are only dreaming about!

    I know you can play out of your skin on a good day, but I just can't believe a score like that!

    Just to say, this is not sour grapes, I wasn't in the running at all.

    According to the club its the best score recorded in their history, but surely there must have been a few eyebrows raised when that card showed up?

    Rant over for now!!!


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 619 ✭✭✭sweetswing


    the classic "captains day bandit".
    who marked his card? was he playing with friends?
    49 is a joke.
    i honestly believe you can shoot a few better than your handicap on a good day(42 is believeable)anything more and i would consider you a bandit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    I was playing in a medal a couple of years ago and my mate (who I was playing with) shot a 79 and he was playing off 22. It was the round of his life and to this day we still talk about it. He hardly had a bad shot all day.

    That score could have been achieved if he was playing regular golf with mates and not in comps, he hit the ground running if you know what I mean.

    I don't really see what your problem is TBH.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    I play off 14 now, when I was playing off about 16 I shot a round of 79, which is my best ever, think it gave me 44 points or something. Could I do that every week? Hell no.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Hasn't returned a card all year and then turns up and wins.

    This is why clubs should have rules were you have to play x rounds to qualify to be able to win the main prize.

    also open draw should be made for groups. you enter your name down for an hour section and you can be drawn anytime in that hour


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    Trampas wrote: »
    Hasn't returned a card all year and then turns up and wins.

    This is why clubs should have rules were you have to play x rounds to qualify to be able to win the main prize.

    also open draw should be made for groups. you enter your name down for an hour section and you can be drawn anytime in that hour

    Exactly. For the big competitions, you should only be allowed to enter once you've handed in 3 or 4 cards in other official club competitions. Not doing this is just leaving the competition open to people like this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    This is why clubs should have rules were you have to play x rounds to qualify to be able to win the main prize.

    I agree. It would sort out very quickly and easily.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 263 ✭✭Mr check raise


    TBH ive had a few rediculous scores overw the past couple of years. had 48 off 18 a few 43s and a 44 and some redicoulous 9 hole comp scores(26 pts and multiple 25pointers off 11 or 12) im just so inconsistent. A lot of people could be like that. I dont shoot 38 or 39 points or anything like that. People sometimes mess with me that i cant shoot an average round!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 272 ✭✭mccutchie


    Guys you should have seen some of the amateur bandits playing in the JP Pro Am (and I dont mean the celebs), guys playing off 14 and 15 etc, hittings draws off the tee, hitting serious par 5's in 2 putting for eagle, great short games, sinking putts from all angles. Gangsters like this and the one mentioned above with 49 pts are making golf at amateur level less credible and with no integrity, glorified cheating in my opinion.
    Rant Over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭aster99


    i thought some of the amatuers alright in adare looked handy and then couldn't believe it when i looked at the sheet and saw their handicaps


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 272 ✭✭mccutchie


    You'd wonder alright, its a format they should defo rethink. The golf classics these guys qualify from are bandit playgrounds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭aster99


    i followed Shane Lowrys group for 5 holes. One his amatuers had 1 birdie, 2 pars, 2 bogeys. Playing off 16. No way was this accurate, you could see by looking this guy was handier than that by far


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭DH2K9


    Played in an open a few weeks and a lad shot 50 points playing off 18.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,956 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    aster99 wrote: »
    i thought some of the amatuers alright in adare looked handy and then couldn't believe it when i looked at the sheet and saw their handicaps

    I'd imagine most of those guys were people who qualified through the regional rounds.
    What do you expect with such a ridiculous qualifying system ,only a 3 man team of bandits could make it through that.
    I also think those 3 man teams should be abolished ,its ridiculous that people can mark their own cards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭sector


    we just had a winning score at the open day at our place yesterday of 54points. he was a visitor but i'd be happy to name him lol

    some score and i think he was off 26 if i've done my sums right looking at his card and he'll be cut by 6 shots (again quick sums) assuming his club know about it, anyway since the op mentioned a lower score thought i mention it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    I was playing in a medal a couple of years ago and my mate (who I was playing with) shot a 79 and he was playing off 22. It was the round of his life and to this day we still talk about it. He hardly had a bad shot all day.

    That score could have been achieved if he was playing regular golf with mates and not in comps, he hit the ground running if you know what I mean.

    I don't really see what your problem is TBH.

    u for real Funkster,i'm guessing ur not a low man,i'm off 5 and it makes me sick hearing stories of bandits scoring 50 odd points(for me that would be -9 )and then boasting about it in the bar,they should be embarassed ffs,it's a joke


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭Tom Ghostwood


    Do men not have to play off 18 for certain comps regardless of how high their hcap is? Or did I dream this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    Do men not have to play off 18 for certain comps regardless of how high their hcap is? Or did I dream this?
    some charity team events,not sure of others


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭aster99


    54 points above, thats just crazy!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭Irishvillian


    Do men not have to play off 18 for certain comps regardless of how high their hcap is? Or did I dream this?

    don't you have to play of 18 in a Intermediate Scratch Cup, if your above 18 that is??:confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    don't you have to play of 18 in a Intermediate Scratch Cup, if your above 18 that is??:confused:

    i had presumed he wasn't talking about scratch cups,Sen 4 and under,Junior 4 or 5 - 9,Inter 10-18,i think


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭Tom Ghostwood


    I just though open comps had a limit of 18 for men & 26 for women or something.


  • Subscribers Posts: 4,419 ✭✭✭PhilipMarlowe


    Sometimes... limits can be applied but it's not common unless you're talking about the scratch cups as mentioned.
    Committees set conditions and it could be a condition of a particular competition that the max shots you receive is 18 I suppose. Handicap adjustment would still be based on your actual handicap though, the limit would only apply to score for prize winning purposes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭jimjo


    heavyballs wrote: »
    u for real Funkster,i'm guessing ur not a low man,i'm off 5 and it makes me sick hearing stories of bandits scoring 50 odd points(for me that would be -9 )and then boasting about it in the bar,they should be embarassed ffs,it's a joke
    +1 to that.

    Sorry to be harsh but whatever man plays golf and has played over a period of time and plays off 26 is a joke. They should be embarrassed having such a high handicap and can in no ways boast in the bar when they shot a 95 gross /69 nett and win IMO….


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭soundsham


    I'd imagine most of those guys were people who qualified through the regional rounds.
    What do you expect with such a ridiculous qualifying system ,only a 3 man team of bandits could make it through that.
    I also think those 3 man teams should be abolished ,its ridiculous that people can mark their own cards.


    I know someone who played in it a genuine golfer I was in adare the fri before the event and had a few pints with him and to beg to caddy for him:(...didn't happen

    anyway he's a member of a club not too far from adare and he said guys in his club made sure they teamed up with 2 others who would leave there h'cap rise by 2 shots for the 3-4yrs prior to the event, there was say approx 6 teams from his club qualified for the 2 day play off for the 8 places in the pro-am I think 4 got to the main event

    so thats how you have 14 & 15 h'cappers playing so well when they should be off 6 or lower....fact


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,500 ✭✭✭✭cson


    heavyballs wrote: »
    u for real Funkster,i'm guessing ur not a low man,i'm off 5 and it makes me sick hearing stories of bandits scoring 50 odd points(for me that would be -9 )and then boasting about it in the bar,they should be embarassed ffs,it's a joke

    You'll find the opposite infact. Being a bandit is usually considered something to be proud of - therefore you regularly see the 14 handicapper being well able to play to an 8 handicap when he wants to.

    It's like most things in Ireland; if you can get ahead or cheat your way ahead of the system its celebrated. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Daithio9


    OP while you're entilted to your rant, you have to remember that a one off like this does not a bandit make.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    don't you have to play of 18 in a Intermediate Scratch Cup, if your above 18 that is??:confused:

    i played an intermediate scratch cup there recently and played off my full handicap (22)

    There was another in athlone there a few weeks ago and it was a junior / intermediate / minor scratch cup and the minors were for 18+ handicaps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    heavyballs wrote: »
    u for real Funkster,i'm guessing ur not a low man,i'm off 5 and it makes me sick hearing stories of bandits scoring 50 odd points(for me that would be -9 )and then boasting about it in the bar,they should be embarassed ffs,it's a joke

    I'm off 9. My point was that's it's possible because my mate is no bandit or cheat I can assure you and he certainly wasn't boasting about it as he knew it was a freak round, something to smile about rather than boast. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.

    He has since left the game because he really struggled to improve his game.
    This is why clubs should have rules were you have to play x rounds to qualify to be able to win the main prize.

    This would work IMO.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭curly from cork


    soundsham wrote: »
    I know someone who played in it a genuine golfer I was in adare the fri before the event and had a few pints with him and to beg to caddy for him:(...didn't happen

    anyway he's a member of a club not too far from adare and he said guys in his club made sure they teamed up with 2 others who would leave there h'cap rise by 2 shots for the 3-4yrs prior to the event, there was say approx 6 teams from his club qualified for the 2 day play off for the 8 places in the pro-am I think 4 got to the main event

    so thats how you have 14 & 15 h'cappers playing so well when they should be off 6 or lower....fact

    ive heard it all now.. some people seriously need to get a life. blatent cheating, no other word for it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭Dammo


    jimjo wrote:
    Sorry to be harsh but whatever man plays golf and has played over a period of time and plays off 26 is a joke. They should be embarrassed having such a high handicap and can in no ways boast in the bar when they shot a 95 gross /69 nett and win IMO….

    Bad example Jimjo. 95 is 23 over par, he plays off 26 so he's beaten his handicap by 3. That's no big deal. On a one-off, anyone could do that. But I take the point I think you're getting at. Playing off 26 and beating your handicap by 12, that might raise a few eyebrows.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31 johnnyfardel


    Few years back I joined a golf society and was playing
    with them for a couple of years with a handicap of 16.
    Gave up playing soccer and decided to give the golf a lot
    more time and bought a new set of R7 Taylor Made irons
    and woods.

    I also joined a golf club and put in 3 cards and got a
    handicap of 10 (yikes...) as I was playing well. I
    informed the golf society handicap secretary so he could
    adjust it, but he made me play off 10 plus 6 as 16 was
    my society handicap and I had to keep it.

    I went out on captains days in the society and shot 40 off
    10, plus 6 for a 46. I was a tad embarrassed but in
    second place was the handicap secretary on 40 points
    and I would have beaten him on the count back anyway.

    Still a bit embarrassed though cos putts dropped from
    all angles and I walked away with the longest drive too.

    Have 2 kids now, stuck on 11 and can't even play off 16.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    Daithio9 wrote: »
    OP while you're entilted to your rant, you have to remember that a one off like this does not a bandit make.

    It's happening all the time now though Daithi. Never used to be like this before. Sure you'd here of a crazy score once in a while, but now it's happening every weekend in every club.
    Last year I shot 2 under for 43 points in an open day, only to find out the following day that 46 points won. Some guy off 24. So I'd needed to have been 6 under to beat him. Crazy. In this thread alone there are at least 3 examples of guys shooting 50 points or more. How is a 4 or 5 handicapper expected to shoot 9 or 10 under to beat these guys?
    These 46 an 47 points and above scores are so commonplace now that people barely pass any remark about them. High scores like the ones we’re seeing now are both expected and accepted. Nothing is being done to combat the problem. From what I can see, nobody gets cut for general play anymore. These bandits can go out in society outings, win before and behind them, and not get cut. The only consolation I take from the whole situation is that I know myself that I give my best in each round, in an honest fashion. If others have to keep inflated handicaps in order to win a prize then so be it. Nothing I can do about it only try my best.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭jimjo


    Dammo wrote: »
    Bad example Jimjo. 95 is 23 over par, he plays off 26 so he's beaten his handicap by 3. That's no big deal. On a one-off, anyone could do that. But I take the point I think you're getting at. Playing off 26 and beating your handicap by 12, that might raise a few eyebrows.

    The point I was getting at there is boasting in the clubhouse after shooting a round of 95 or 96 and winning a medal of a high handicap which I’ve seen happen on a few occasions. Personally I feel even if they win I feel they’ve nothing to boast playing off such a high handicap.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    soundsham wrote: »
    anyway he's a member of a club not too far from adare and he said guys in his club made sure they teamed up with 2 others who would leave there h'cap rise by 2 shots for the 3-4yrs prior to the event, there was say approx 6 teams from his club qualified for the 2 day play off for the 8 places in the pro-am I think 4 got to the main event

    so thats how you have 14 & 15 h'cappers playing so well when they should be off 6 or lower....fact

    But the thing is that they are only cheats. And everybody who went to Adare to watch that Pro Am knew they were cheats. Whatever keeps them happy.............


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭soundsham


    played recently with a guy myself who shot 3 over par in a stroke event off the blues in as bad a windy day as you'd ever get, he's off 7 and he got up and down from everywhere
    he had a nett 68

    in the bar afterwards the closest score was 4 shots worse, everyone there congratulated him for a brilliant round in the conditions and a few were saying they couldn't believe someone could break their h'cap on the day in question,
    he said he had shot better scores by 2 or 3 shots a few times but he rated that as his best round ever due to the weather
    I myself and many others couldn't see it being beaten

    saw the results later in the week some guy off 24 had a nett 64 to beat him by 4 third was nett 71......:confused::confused::confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭soundsham


    But the thing is that they are only cheats. And everybody who went to Adare to watch that Pro Am knew they were cheats. Whatever keeps them happy.............


    well my argument was how do they expect people to fork out to play in the qualifiers when this is what your up against


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    soundsham wrote: »
    well my argument was how do they expect people to fork out to play in the qualifiers when this is what your up against

    Absolutely agree. Why would anyone, who is an honest golfer, fork out to play in these kind of qualifiers. Not a hope in hell of winning when you're playing against 0.1 merchants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭jimjo


    soundsham wrote: »
    well my argument was how do they expect people to fork out to play in the qualifiers when this is what your up against
    +1

    I brought up a similar comment in that Volvo qualifiers event when two of the four winning scores reported were 45 & 46 points.

    All well and good having a winner plays a free round in Killeen Castle, but the final will be made up of a half to full field of bandits!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I knew a player who would hold back in your normal 18 weekend comp. He was off around 14 but well capable of playing to single figures.

    Just look at classic and the scores you see in them. I refuse to play in them now cause of it. I hear they are appearing in pro am events now. In a certain club in soth west leinster they are investigating an incident cause a team won by over 10 shots in a 2 to score on each hole. Think they had 104pts


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    The only excuse for the 46/47 point rounds would be if they come from junior golfers, it has happened in our club where these guys get there handicaps don't play much then one summer spend the whole time on the course and improve from 26 to 10 over the summer they will have those 46/47 point scores. Think you should have had to play 3/4 comps to win any prize in your club and would like to see the GUI bring in a rule that you have to play at least 3 stroke and 3 stableford comps every year to keep a current handicap. Big scores in open comps can be sometimes explained if you have a handicap on a really hard course and then go play a really easy course in a open.
    Mike


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Mr. Larson


    Last year I shot 2 under for 43 points in an open day, only to find out the following day that 46 points won. Some guy off 24. So I'd needed to have been 6 under to beat him.
    Chances are someone is always going to beat you if your handicap is that low. Surely the Gross prize and your handicap reduction is its own reward? I would have thought you had given up on getting a nett prize at this stage. But having said all that, where would you draw the line at being pissed off? If a guy off 7 shot level Par and beat you to it, would you be equally outraged or is your ire just reserved for people off 18+? I'm not getting at anything here by the way, just curious.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    Played yesterday in a fourball 3/4 handicap and they had 48pts think it must be a record they were 14 and 16 they just dovetailed brillantly had 4 birdies and finished on Level par gross!!
    The 12 hole was won with 35pts they won by 6pts!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭soundsham


    Surely the Gross prize and your handicap reduction is its own reward? I would have thought you had given up on getting a nett prize at this stage. But having said all that, where would you draw the line at being pissed off? If a guy off 7 shot level Par and beat you to it, would you be equally outraged or is your ire just reserved for people off 18+? I'm not getting at anything here by the way, just curious.
    Chances are someone is always going to beat you if your handicap is that low.
    I thought h'caps were there to level the playing field....
    what a load of rubbish...."handicap reduction is its own reward"
    most open days dont have a gross prize,

    so do you think a low h'capper should hand over €30 for an open day or €200 or more for a classic and accept that they have no chance of winning......
    if thats the case I'd happily accept if I could play for €10 less with no chance of a prize in an open day,

    club competitions have one gross prize maybe

    try it the other way,
    try giving out 5 prizes for a few months,with 4 for the best gross and one for the best nett....rewarding the best golfers,can you imagine what would happen then


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Only surprise here is that Conno hasn't claimed to have scored 55pts :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    Chances are someone is always going to beat you if your handicap is that low.

    43 points is 43 points no matter what your handicap is. I think one should be entitled to feel that 43 points should win them a competition. This is the whole point of the thread. 43 points doesn't win anymore. 46 does.
    Surely the Gross prize and your handicap reduction is its own reward?

    Yes, handicap reduction is a reward. For sure. But it's nice to win a comp too.
    I would have thought you had given up on getting a nett prize at this stage.
    Why would I do that? I'm still going out in every competition to shoot the best I can and trying to win the competition.
    But having said all that, where would you draw the line at being pissed off? If a guy off 7 shot level Par and beat you to it, would you be equally outraged or is your ire just reserved for people off 18+? I'm not getting at anything here by the way, just curious.

    No. If an honest 7 handicap shoots level par then fair play and well done. My ire is reserved for people who play off ungenuine high handicaps. So if there is a 7 handicapper who should be off 1 but is holding his handicap to win a big prize then thats as bad as the 24 handicapper who should be off 15. But that practice is not as common among lower handicappers. It does happen but not nearly as often.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭derra


    A friend of mine joined the artisans in a club few years back.
    Played his 3 rounds with bad scores, along the lines of 109,106,103 and probably should of got a handicap of 23 or whatever for arguments sake.
    But they gave him a 14 handicap regardless, they were sick of players coming in shooting high scores for handicap then ripping the place a part !
    So after a long period of time his handicap was adjusted to reflect his true handicap on the scores he was shooting.

    That was a while back and his handicap went up accordingly but not over 20, think he is off 12 now.

    Not a solution, but clubs could maybe have a handicap limit of 18 starting off
    for new players to help solve the problem in future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    Spitser wrote: »
    A lot of jealous people in this thread. Won my own club's captains there a few weeks back with 48 points. Made it my goal after seeing the prizes last year. I'd been practicing since the end of last season for it.

    I was nervous going in as it was my first comp in nearly 9 months! Pulled it off though.

    Don't see the difference between practicing and putting your all into the big events and sacrificing everything else. Sure, don't the Pros effectively do the same?

    must be a wind up..................


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭stockdam


    I rarely bother playing in competitions now.

    My average score is about 32 points but rarely would I break 36 points. I think I've only once or twice been as high as 40.
    That's how it should be.......your handicap should be what your best round of the year is. Shooting 45 points plus happens far too often.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭forkassed


    I heard recently that a player should play to their handicap(36 points or better) on average 1 in 8 games.

    Is this correct?


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