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Gun Club "ban" use of semi-autos & pump actions at club clay shoot

  • 21-07-2010 8:12am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭


    One of my NARGC affiliated gun clubs following a proposal by it's new safety officer, who is a registered gun dealer, has banned the use of semi-auto & pump action shot guns at a club clay shoot for "safety reasons" :eek:

    Any comments, suggestions or possible legal options/implications?


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭sfakiaman


    The only plausable reason I can think of is that someone could load more than two cartriges, but surely any competent RO would check before anyone left the fireing line. Maybe the safety officer needs a bit of training.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    Why not just load 2 shells instead of 3 :confused::confused::confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭marlin vs


    I think you'r safety officer is after losing the run of himself,is his name Gormley by any chance,I shoot a s/a at clay's and just load 2 shot's and keep the breech open when i'm not on a stand.:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    marlin vs wrote: »
    I think you'r safety officer is after losing the run of himself,is his name Gormley by any chance,I shoot a s/a at clay's and just load 2 shot's and keep the breech open when i'm not on a stand.:rolleyes:

    In fact, just like 99.999999999999% of CP-shooters are required to do.

    Next thing he'll want to do is to hand you each cartridge separately on the stand.

    Oh my, I'm giving him ideas now..................... : O

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    iv never seen a unsafe firearm , just unsafe users .

    his time might be better spent educating ,young ,new not so young members in gun safety .

    personally i dont like autos at clay shoots ,as the guys that use them are more often game shooters and are not familiar with range etiquette .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Darr


    I'd be looking for his actual reason eg on what safety grounds .. looks like the Idontlikethelookofthat are still out there ... oh no its not a ou/sbs ban it quick ..
    Dar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Legal options? None I can think of. Their club, their rules bunny. :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    jwshooter wrote: »
    iv never seen a unsafe firearm
    I have :D Check out a lot of the farming single-barrel shotguns sometime, especially the ones that are being handed in rather than licenced this year. Forget firing them, I'm pretty sure you need a tetanus jab just to pick them up safely...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    He has lost the run of himself Semi autos are used for english sporting (there is an American chap that shoots a berretta 391 who gave Faulds a run for his money I think in 2008. They are used for skeet even trap in the states. 2 shots only, and
    sleeve when not in use,
    point down range when loading
    carry with muzzels pointing up if you are on the squad moving from 5-1 with the breach back and visible for all to see

    there is the nuisance element when shooting in squads. Challenge him on it, the semi is fine its the eejit behind it.

    A lot of lads shoot semis for field and clays, looks like he wants to stop running shoots. I'd say 60% of our guys have semis and one chap I know since having a car accident got rid of his KEMEN and went back to a Benelli because of the less recoil. I use my beretta 391 for skeet.

    €10 says he would still sell them to a lad looking for one....:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭J.R.


    I have come across this on a few occassions in the past. I have a semi - auto which I shot all the time but went & bought a cheap Bettinsoli o/u to attend club shoots as semis not allowed.

    I don't agree with it but, in some instances, I can see where they are coming from.

    My friend & I both shoot semis - his is right handed & mine is left handed. We were draw on the same DTL line....he was no. 3 & I was no. 4. There was a grumpy old git between us. When shooting started he was being hit by my friends fired shells on his left, when ejected, & then on his right when I fired. When the shoot finished he was like an anti-christ.:D

    I've used a pump action shotgun for years and really liked them & found them very safe. Saying that I 've seen an awful lot of eejits with pumps at flapper shoots.......some seem to think they're rambo. A fellow turned up one day with a remington 870 black pump with pistol grip & infra red light on barrel.

    Another day at a flapper shoot a guy with a pump was on the line. We were in the background watching. As he raised the gun, when his clay was approaching, a pigeon passed. He swung & fired THREE shots at it, missing it each time. When we raised the issue nobody else seemed too concerned stating the day was only a bit of craic!!! Needless to say we departed immediately.

    I've nothing against pumps or semis ....I've used them all my life.....but one has to admit that when some guys ..a very small minority...buy a pump (especially) it's for the movies image & not the benefits of the gun.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    My friend & I both shoot semis - his is right handed & mine is left handed. We were draw on the same DTL line....he was no. 3 & I was no. 4. There was a grumpy old git between us. When shooting started he was being hit by my friends fired shells on his left, when ejected, & then on his right when I fired. When the shoot finished he was like an anti-christ.:D

    I am always amazed by this one...Wouldnt BASIC Common SENSE suggest to you if you are getting hit by an ejected shell to simply take a step back
    OUT OF THE WAY!!!:rolleyes:
    I've used a pump action shotgun for years and really liked them & found them very safe. Saying that I 've seen an awful lot of eejits with pumps at flapper shoots.......some seem to think they're rambo. A fellow turned up one day with a remington 870 black pump with pistol grip & infra red light on barrel.
    Dont think Rambo ever used a pump action:D.I love showing up with my 1100 all tricked out.But so what ???Did he shoot it safley??Thats the main thing ,not what it looks like.

    Another day at a flapper shoot a guy with a pump was on the line. We were in the background watching. As he raised the gun, when his clay was approaching, a pigeon passed. He swung & fired THREE shots at it, missing it each time. When we raised the issue nobody else seemed too concerned stating the day was only a bit of craic!!! Needless to say we departed immediately.

    That is a problem at flappers all right,but not the guns fault,more like an overeasy going on safety procedures or etiquette.I've seen somone once blind drunk on the firing line at a flapper.Fortuneatly only once.:eek:
    When I mentioned it to the RO,it was a" nuthin I can do about it...He is the local most high Poobah.....":(

    As for dealing with the range officer that came up with this.I suggest that you who have semis and pumps call an EGM and state quite clearly that if this goes ahead,you will LEAVE this club and forward your complaints to the NARGC on this point of non saftey issue.As it is affiliated to NARGC they do have some part to play in this.If any of you are landowners or providing a service to the club,state that then your land is now off limits to the club until this issue is sorted,and all your servive is withdrawn from club projects...
    Bet you will soon see a change around.Money,membership and land are big things to a club.Chop those and you will get a result.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    That is a problem at flappers all right ... an overeasy going on safety procedures or etiquette.I've seen somone once blind drunk on the firing line at a flapper.Fortuneatly only once.:eek:
    When I mentioned it to the RO,it was a" nuthin I can do about it...He is the local most high Poobah.....":(
    As for dealing with the range officer that came up with this.I suggest that you who have semis and pumps call an EGM and state quite clearly that if this goes ahead,you will LEAVE this club and forward your complaints to the NARGC on this point of non saftey issue. ... Bet you will soon see a change around.Money,membership and land are big things to a club.Chop those and you will get a result.

    Grizzly, do you not see the irony there?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    No!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Remington 105CTi. Fires shells at ones feet.

    I do find a lot of PURIST shotgunners hate Semi's.

    The RO should be able to run a range with Semi's on the line. Just put them at the end, or further apart.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    No!

    Facepalm.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Your opinion...:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly, you went from "gosh, there are serious safety issues at flappers and the ROs do nothing 'cos folks are grand high poobahs" to "call an EGM and discipline this guy for trying to bring in a new safety measure and get the NARGC to pressure the club too - money will ensure success" in the next paragraph. How can you not see the irony here? I mean, if you think the guy's wrong, work with him first to try to change his mind, don't just reach straight over his head to the club finances as a first step! And if you're going to, don't ever again complain that some folks in a club seem to get preferential treatment, or that safety standards are comprimised, because you're part of the problem if you're trying to stomp on people with the NARGC and EGMs as a first step.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    When you have quite finished slectively reading and opining on my post Sparks and consider dismounting from your moral high horse for a moment.I'll simplyify it for you.
    Considering that you missed the point,wether by accident or design, that I made that the most high Poobah was BLIND DRUNK on the firing line,an obvious saftey risk that nothing was been done about,due to social standing or whatever.Also,it was a point being made in sloppiness of certain saftey aspects at flappers.POINT ONE!and totally irrevelant to point two.

    POINT TWO
    The original OP asked for a solution to a problem.I gave my idea of how it should be done as this is over zealousness on the RO part for no known reason at all.Do YOU know the story going on here??Neither do I.We are working on what we have from the post.Maybe they have,maybe the RO has become a mini Hitler with his power,and wont entertain any discussion on the matter?
    And sorry...as I said Money is the only thing that seems to get anyones undivided attention these days.We are forking out enough money these days for this sport without being told now what gun we can or cant use by the PTB,without our own sticking it in as well.So tough titty,if people want membership,be thankful you have members,not do things to discourage them.Personally,if it was me I'd just quit the club and make it known why,and why shouldnt the nARGC be involved ?After all this club is affiliated to them,so they have to play by NARGC standards as well?

    Point THREE
    Whatever!!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    the most high Poobah was BLIND DRUNK on the firing line,an obvious saftey risk that nothing was been done about,due to social standing or whatever.
    ...
    this is over zealousness on the RO part for no known reason at all ...as I said Money is the only thing that seems to get anyones undivided attention these days...be thankful you have members,not do things to discourage them.Personally,if it was me I'd just quit the club and make it known why,and why shouldnt the nARGC be involved ?After all this club is affiliated to them,so they have to play by NARGC standards as well?

    blurb_facepalm2_20090622.jpg

    Seriously Grizzly, just stop.
    You can't bemoan standards not being upheld one minute and then demand the club abandon standards to mould itself around members that don't like the rules the next.
    And you really can't complain that safety is comprimised because of money, and then the next second state that money's the best tool to use to rein in a club that's doing things you don't like.
    That's just... well, I can't think of a polite word for it.

    As to the OP, talk to the safety officer about it. For all we know, there's a damn good reason for it, or he's willing to amend the rule.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FACEPALMS BANNED .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ok Sparks WHATEVER!! Have the last word..You are right as usual....
    .:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Bunny can you raise a counter proposal?

    Ask around the club first how many semi auto shooters there are and see if they are interested in attending this clay shoot.

    If you think you can win a vote, well then, raise a proposal yourself countering the ban on semi autos

    Other than that well just boycott the shoot I suppose, vote with your feet and try and get friends of similar thinking to do the same


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭marlin vs


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Bunny can you raise a counter proposal?

    Ask around the club first how many semi auto shooters there are and see if they are interested in attending this clay shoot.

    If you think you can win a vote, well then, raise a proposal yourself countering the ban on semi autos

    Other than that well just boycott the shoot I suppose, vote with your feet and try and get friends of similar thinking to do the same
    +1. Tell them to stick it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭deerhunter1


    One of my NARGC affiliated gun clubs following a proposal by it's new safety officer, who is a registered gun dealer, has banned the use of semi-auto & pump action shot guns at a club clay shoot for "safety reasons" :eek:

    Any comments, suggestions or possible legal options/implications?

    Is he trying too say the members are not safe? Is he trying to have his own little circle of shooting friends,? is he hoping to drum up buisness and ye all stupidly trade in youre autos and buy U/O's from him,? Have a EGM or AGM and vote him out,get rid of him, he sounds like he is not in touch with the real world. Did he get a majority vote at the meeting to ban autos,? OFF WITH HIS HEAD:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    marlin vs wrote: »
    +1. Tell them to stick it.

    Well my first port of call would be to talk to the chap calmly and see why he wants them banned.

    If he is playing silly buggers then try the vote.

    Conversation first though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭deerhunter1


    Remington 105CTi. Fires shells at ones feet.

    I do find a lot of PURIST shotgunners hate Semi's.

    The RO should be able to run a range with Semi's on the line. Just put them at the end, or further apart.;)

    105CTi ball of s-it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭greenpeter


    Would it not be in his interest to teach or coach lads using pump action or semis to us them properly, so come shooting season they know how to use them in a safe manner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Thanks for all the replies lads :D

    More or less what I expected and knew. Nice to be able to bounce it here though ;):cool:

    There are quite a few semi users in the club, wouldn't be a majority though, most of who could weren't at the AGM.

    Hard to know what's behind it tbh. This lad was in the club a few years ago, before my time, and left under a cloud and came back recently. May be some sort of vendetta being played out :rolleyes:

    Today I've contacted all the semi users and we are looking for an EGM to be called to sort this.

    Will see what happens now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Today I've contacted all the semi users and we are looking for an EGM to be called to sort this.
    Why not just talk to him before going to that extreme Bunny? I mean, if the guy's just going off on one, that's one thing, but to jump straight to an EGM without even getting on the phone first isn't optimal. Hell, all the shoutiness you've seen on boards over the years has usually been the tail end of years of trying to resolve stuff in private, and failing and winding up at the stage of last resort.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Oftentimes in Ireland I would use a double-barrel which fired the two cartridges sequentially with subsequent pulls of the single trigger. By definition, it also is a semi-automatic firearm. (Although, granted, not a self-loading one) When taking the survey, please don't forget to count personnel who own such weapons as being affected. (And make sure they know it).

    Basically a ban on semi-autos and pumps is one which bans any shotgun except for a single-barreled one with no magazine, or a double-barrelled one with two triggers.

    That excludes the vast majority of shotguns used by clay pigeon shooters.

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭dCorbus


    following a proposal by it's new safety officer, who is a registered gun dealer, has banned the use of semi-auto & pump action shot guns at a club clay shoot for "safety reasons"

    hey, bunnyshooter, a couple of question's you should find out the answer to first, which may help you get to the bottom of where this lad may be coming from:

    1. Was there a fully-"quorumed" and authorised vote of the gun club members or committee taken to bring in this "ban". I wouldn't know anything about the gun club set-up, but this sort of decision cannot have(or at least, shouldn't have) been taken unilaterally or without some sort of approval. If you find out this information, this will give you a good idea of what sort of support this anti-semi decision had.
    2. This is the gun clubs new safety officer you say: As an apparently new or recently rejoined member, who elected him god?
    3. As the safety officer, what are his qualifications for this role? NRA, NARGC, etc. etc courses and qualifications?
    4. As a member, the least you (and the other shooters) can expect is a response to your questions and in this way you'll find out more about the "lay of the land" on this issue.

    Can't understand it myself. Safety is paramount - but to "ban" semi-auto shotties in this day and age makes no sense to me.

    Manic Moran makes a very good point - I've always thought of a single-trigger double-barrel shotgun in same way as a semi-auto shotgun, in my head at least. The result is the same. Pull the trigger twice - you get two shots. Only difference with a s/a is that you might have the third shell. What other difference is there?:confused:

    If one was paranoid, one might suspect a conspiracy to get you all to buy non-S/A guns from this self-same RFD / Safety Officer. But, hey, paranoid, moi? never!;):D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    One of my NARGC affiliated gun clubs following a proposal by it's new safety officer, who is a registered gun dealer, has banned the use of semi-auto & pump action shot guns at a club clay shoot for "safety reasons" :eek:

    Any comments, suggestions or possible legal options/implications?

    Sheer closed minded ignorance. Any gun is only as safe or unsafe as the person handling it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭riflehunter77


    Ask him as been a registered dealer is he going to stop selling semi and pumps as of now. See will his attitude change then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭dCorbus


    That's an interesting one indeed.
    Ask him as been a registered dealer is he going to stop selling semi and pumps as of now

    One way of phrasing it would be: "Are you now satisfied to continue to offer for sale firearms which you believe to be unsafe? and therefore, are you happy to stand liable and responsible for the consequences of the sale, by you, of such firearms which you have on previous occasions publicly deemed and categorised as in some way unsafe?".

    That should get an interesting response indeed!:rolleyes::D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    A good angle to approach it from Bunny might is the safety one itself.

    Which is safer for new members in the club, teaching and observing them using their semi-auto shotguns in a controlled environment like the club clay shoot

    Or

    Giving no instruction to new members on their safe carriage and usage.

    The club clay shoot is one of the best times in the year to give a presentation/lecture on the safe handling of firearms. Don't see this chance wasted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭Hartman


    Sparks wrote: »
    ...


    blurb_facepalm2_20090622.jpg

    Over usage of facepalm demotivational posters..
    poster55821247.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    c90a06b7-3574-4e7d-bc32-4aafe7ec2107.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Interesting to see what would happen if someone turned up with one of these - semi, yet breaks like an O/U & only holds two shots?

    Beretta semi auto UGB - 25 - EXCEL

    http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/qa/296677/Have_Beretta_produced_a_breakaction_semiauto_shotgun.html


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 4,948 ✭✭✭pullandbang


    Madness to "ban" semis at a flapper! The only time they're a nuisance is in squad shoots (DTL etc). Other than that, as long as they are empty (and visibly empty) they're fine.

    So to all the semi and pump owners who can't take part in their own club's flapper, you're all welcome to ours! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    Oftentimes in Ireland I would use a double-barrel which fired the two cartridges sequentially with subsequent pulls of the single trigger. By definition, it also is a semi-automatic firearm. (Although, granted, not a self-loading one) When taking the survey, please don't forget to count personnel who own such weapons as being affected. (And make sure they know it).

    Basically a ban on semi-autos and pumps is one which bans any shotgun except for a single-barreled one with no magazine, or a double-barrelled one with two triggers.

    That excludes the vast majority of shotguns used by clay pigeon shooters.

    NTM

    No, thats not going to wash, you have to look at the traditional way of categorizing shotguns not just make your own classifications as you go along.
    Vegeta wrote: »
    The club clay shoot is one of the best times in the year to give a presentation/lecture on the safe handling of firearms. Don't see this chance wasted.

    The club clay shoot is normally an open flapper(non registered) clay shoot. Its not really the time to decide to have a safety training day. Its normally a way of making money for the club.

    I don't see how that shoot is going to be a success if the chairman is going to be snobby about what types of guns are used. Me thinks that next year ye'll have a shoot and nobody will turn up because of this attitude, basically you are going to ruin running any type of a club shoot for years to come.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    The club clay shoot is normally an open flapper(non registered) clay shoot. Its not really the time to decide to have a safety training day. Its normally a way of making money for the club.

    Didn't get that is was a flapper from bunny's post. Thought it was just his club running an internal competition

    My club has 3-5 active members so an open flapper is well beyond us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 shedd7


    Is it possible that some of the posters have missed the point? If the ban is for "safety reasons" and it has been proposed by the Safety Officer,why would anyone have a problem with it? I think in some clubs there is a "ban" on pistols being carried in holsters for safety reasons,why does nobody question that one? Another case of people getting up their high horse for no valid reason. As usual,people getting distracted by the type of firearm rather than seeing the big picture i.e. safety of ALL people on the range. I'm pretty sure most posters,like me, don't even know the location of the range,any inherent risk factors. They should,however, be aware that the Safety Officer has a duty to ensure the safety of everyone on the range and his decision must be final regarding what is and isn't safe taking everything into account. Bit like a ref, you may not always agree with his decisions but he has the last word, although in football,hurling,soccer etc. nobody is likely to die if he gets it wrong. You need to cop on,lads.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Dusty87


    shedd7 wrote: »
    Is it possible that some of the posters have missed the point? If the ban is for "safety reasons" and it has been proposed by the Safety Officer,why would anyone have a problem with it? I think in some clubs there is a "ban" on pistols being carried in holsters for safety reasons,why does nobody question that one? Another case of people getting up their high horse for no valid reason. As usual,people getting distracted by the type of firearm rather than seeing the big picture i.e. safety of ALL people on the range. I'm pretty sure most posters,like me, don't even know the location of the range,any inherent risk factors. They should,however, be aware that the Safety Officer has a duty to ensure the safety of everyone on the range and his decision must be final regarding what is and isn't safe taking everything into account. Bit like a ref, you may not always agree with his decisions but he has the last word, although in football,hurling,soccer etc. nobody is likely to die if he gets it wrong. You need to cop on,lads.

    Hello, Bunnys club Safety Officer:D:D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭marlin vs


    Safety officer or dictator.hitler.gifhitler.gifhitler.gifhitler.gif


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    No, thats not going to wash, you have to look at the traditional way of categorizing shotguns not just make your own classifications as you go along.

    Who is making things up as they go along? The definitions are standard. An automatic weapon will fire more than one round with a single pull of the trigger until either ammunition is expended or the trigger is released, a semi-automatic will fire one round per pull of the trigger until ammunition is expended, and a manual firearm must be manipulated into firing condition before it can shoot the next round, no matter how many times you pull the trigger.

    If he puts out a ban on semi-autos, he is also banning two-barreled shotguns with single triggers. Both by the definition of a semi-automatic weapon and by the practical realities of 'it doesn't matter how the gun actually performs its mechanism, the effect of a two-barrel shotgun with one trigger, and a single-barrelled self-loading shotgun with two rounds are exactly the same'

    NTM


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    If the ban is for "safety reasons" and it has been proposed by the Safety Officer,why would anyone have a problem with it?

    I have a problem with it because anyone with the sense God gave the common dog would realise that the prohibition actually achieves nothing in terms of safety and does nothing but prohibit shooters from using commonly-used firearms acceptable to the rules of the sport, even if they are not of a type likely to be chosen by a conservative purist. I could mandate that everyone wear clothes made of bubble wrap for safety, it is about as much benefit and sense to it. It is a ban made by either unfamiliarity, ignorance, or personal dislike.

    The appropriate safety measures have been mentioned earlier. They involve loading no more than two rounds and not before your turn to shoot, carrying the weapon in a specific manner when not actively engaged on the firing line, and possibly placing a flag in the chamber to indicate non-functionality, though I admit to never having attended a range where that last was a requirement.

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭no12


    While on the topic of Semi autos and I dont mean to hijack the thread Courtlough are running a semi auto only shoot in August on the 22nd may be of interest to some of you some great prizes up for grabs sounds like a bit of craic More details attached


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    shedd7 wrote: »
    Is it possible that some of the posters have missed the point? If the ban is for "safety reasons" and it has been proposed by the Safety Officer,why would anyone have a problem with it? I think in some clubs there is a "ban" on pistols being carried in holsters for safety reasons,why does nobody question that one? Another case of people getting up their high horse for no valid reason. As usual,people getting distracted by the type of firearm rather than seeing the big picture i.e. safety of ALL people on the range. I'm pretty sure most posters,like me, don't even know the location of the range,any inherent risk factors. They should,however, be aware that the Safety Officer has a duty to ensure the safety of everyone on the range and his decision must be final regarding what is and isn't safe taking everything into account. Bit like a ref, you may not always agree with his decisions but he has the last word, although in football,hurling,soccer etc. nobody is likely to die if he gets it wrong. You need to cop on,lads.

    I think it is you that has missed the point :rolleyes:

    Or as the Dusty reckons is that you *******? :p

    It is a club shoot with a few invited friends etc

    The idea about a safety lecture etc is a brilliant one, which I had thought of. Amazing thing is I was previously a safety officer of the club :)

    An EGM is being organised will advise of outcome as soon as :)

    No. 12 I'll bring a copy of that poster to meeting a few of us may even make it to the shoot I reckon ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 shedd7


    Tell you what,next time you go to any form of competition,why not not just tell whoever is in charge that you don't like their rules and you will do it your way:rolleyes: I'm sure they will be happy to let you take part. I would really love to hear from anyone out there who has tried this and got away with it. I really don't think the SO is doing this just for the hell of it, there may be good reasons which we are not aware of. Perhaps NARGC members on here should consider the serious (stupid) accidents which occurred in the last year,one person with a leg amputated below the knee because of a friends carelessness,one person who lost the sight of an eye because of basic failure to follow simple rules while out shooting and another serious injury due to another breach of basic safety rules. I say,well done that Safety Officer, being proactive instead of apologising after some knucklehead with a semi/pump action does someone a serious injury.Oh by the way, I own a p/a myself, and would not be irritated if prohibited from entering a competition,whether club or not. When it comes to shooting,safety must come first at all times,even if it annoys a few people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Dusty87


    Em i think the accidents you refer to happened in the field, and in fog, when people shouldnt have been shooting in the first place. Hardly the SO fault.
    Did you read the OP?
    Can you tell me why a Semi or pump is more dangerous than a double barrel??


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