Black Library

Frisbee

Wasn't sure where to put this but this seemed like the best place to get a few replies...

Anyone else follow the Black Library books? Generally I prefer the 40k stuff but I've read one or two of the Fantasy ones too. Series' I follow are:

Gaunts Ghosts
Ciaphas Cain
Ultramarines
Soul Drinkers
Horus Heresy

and then really loved the Ravenor and Eisenhorn trilogies.

Out of all those Eisenhorn and Gaunts Ghosts are probably my favourite. I held off on reading the 'Lost' Arc of GG until the omnibus came out, got it last week and I'm just starting the last book in it.

Lemming

I follow the Gaunts Ghosts and Felix & Gotrek novels (and have done since both were either short story excerpts printed in White Dwarf and/or Inferno), and have been meaning to do so with the Horus Heresy but just not gotten to it yet.

Frisbee

Gaunts Ghosts is hugely enjoyable imo, I think Abnett is a brilliant author.

Spoiler up as far as the end of 'The Lost' story Arc here:

He really knows how to make you care about a character then kill them off, although it's becoming very wholesale now. Varl, Mkvenner and Caff were my three favourite characters.

Now Caffran's dead, that moment actually really got to me, kudos Mr. Abnett.

Mkvenner is unfortunately as good as dead. I knew when Gaunt and Mkoll saw his tomb he wasn't dead, but I assumed he'd come out of hiding in the Unthill to help them, not just remain on Gereon and the last we see of him is a crappy little paragraph with Eszrah.

I really hope Varl doesn't get killed off now, but I have a feeling he will soon as he's always at the forefront.

I was pretty sad when Feygor was pronouced dead too. I never like him really but he had been such a cornerstone for the whole series.

Puding

have a fair few black libery books and tbh the quality does very massively

the Ciaphas Cain is a good fun read, not high literature but its a good laugh and goes along at a good pace for a light read

the eisenhower and ghost series are some of the best along with the inquisitor war series

Venom

Soul Hunter is a good read and has really interesting insight into the Traitor Marines characters who are written more like the Ghosts than the usual superhuman this, that and the other alot of the 40k books suffer from.

McKennsy

I have a lot of them, but I've given up on anything other than Gaunts Ghosts and the Herus Heresy series.

I'd read anything by Abbnett (although he had had the off crap novel) but nobody else holds my attention.A good Blood Angels novel might be interesting.

What annoys me is that the universe doesn't move forward. The books can be set hundreds of years apart and there is little or no difference in the state of the universe or the technology used.

I'd also like too see some novels told from the point of view of the Elder and the Tau.

However I suppose you have to expect that when the universe is driven by whatever miniaturees sell the most.

Lemming

McKennsy wrote: »

What annoys me is that the universe doesn't move forward. The books can be set hundreds of years apart and there is little or no difference in the state of the universe or the technology used.

Bear in mind you're in a galaxy where the march of technology is measured in hundreds if not the thousands of years. There's an anecdotal reference - where I can't recall - but in reference to Space Hulk and the Terminator power hammer whereby that it took around a thousand years to condense the power into something as "small" as a hammer that can only be wielded by Terminator armour-clad marines is testament to the "march" of human technology.

Most of humanity has regressed in terms of supersition rather than become some enlightened race (Eldar anyone???) and heavily indoctrinated by quasi-religious cults/dogma.

It's also worth considering the vast scale of the empire of man that it would take a very long time for technological achievements to filter across the galaxy in numbers great enough to notice.

I'd also like too see some novels told from the point of view of the Elder and the Tau.

Then you need to read the original Warhammer 40,000 novels by Ian Watson; in particularly the third and forth in the series (Harlequin and Chaos Child). The eldar, whilst not central to the story, arc heavily across both novels.

McKennsy

Yeah, I've read the older books and they were enjoyable, but definetly out of line with the current version of the background.

The cool thing bout those books were that the Edler actually spoke Irish!!.

GW/BL are very quick to use the whole "It's a big universe with different planets at different elvels of technology" line. It's obvious at this stage that the books are aimed at the teenage/early 20's market ( the main reason why I stopped reading most of them ) so they ahve kept the story from the point of view of the Humans. I just think it's a missed opprotunity.

The Tau's "greater good" ideology sounds like it would make for some interesting stories, and the Elder have always been enigmatic and would make for some great novels imo.

Mantel

There's at least one Eldar novel http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer-40000/Path-of-the-Warrior.html

No idea on the quality of it but at least it's a start on some non-human novels.

Nody

Mantel wrote: »

No idea on the quality of it but at least it's a start on some non-human novels.

What I'd like to see is some Greenskin novels with da boyz! Now if that is done properly it would be a proper riot of laughs (esp. if you get to follow a gobbo around!) instead of feeble books such as "Orcs" (which is humans in Orc bodies running around; not a Warhammer novel though).

McKennsy

There was an Orc comic. It was 40k and based on a squadren of Orc fighter pilots.

I've never read it, I can't even remember the name but if you search the net you might find a copy.


Orc novels, and any from a Necron, Tyranid point of view would be almost impossible to pull off. I'd say they would come accross as childish. It would be all about "Killin d Humie's" and I'd say you would want to rip the book apart after about half a dozen pages of that type of dialogue.

Mantel

McKennsy wrote: »

There was an Orc comic. It was 40k and based on a squadren of Orc fighter pilots.

I've never read it, I can't even remember the name but if you search the net you might find a copy.

Deff Skwadron, written by Gordon Rennie

Probably worth a read if you can find it.

McKennsy wrote: »

Orc novels, and any from a Necron, Tyranid point of view would be almost impossible to pull off. I'd say they would come accross as childish. It would be all about "Killin d Humie's" and I'd say you would want to rip the book apart after about half a dozen pages of that type of dialogue.

Yeah, those races would the hardest to write for. The only ways I could think you could do the necrons is before they all became what they where made in to. The tyranids... perhaps a genestealer cult? Single mined and emotionless types don't make for interesting stories.

Frisbee

Only book I have left to read in the GG series so far is Blood Pact, and will probably pick that up soon enough.

Absolutely brilliant sci-fi novels, Abnett is a genius.

McKennsy

I assume that you are aware of this new anthology.

http://forbiddenplanet.com/61526-warhammer-40k-sabbat-worlds-anthology-hardcover/

It's all short stories from the Sabbat Crusade ( the war the Ghosts are fighting ). As far as I know the Phantine pilots from Abbnetts other nover Double Eagle will be appearing in it.......and maybe even the Ghosts themselves.

Snoogans

I personally find the vast majority of Black Library's novels a bit lacking (that I've read anyway) But Dan Abnett is always worth reading.
Eisenhorn and Ravenor in particular are the best things Black Library has ever published, ever.

hairyheretic

The Horus Heresy has some good books in amongst the set as well.

Snoogans

Horus Heresy is also a very very mixed bag. I wish the authors were more cohesive. It is good for some epic moments though. Them Primarchs sure are pretty headstrong fellahs.

Venom

Snoogans wrote: »

Horus Heresy is also a very very mixed bag. I wish the authors were more cohesive. It is good for some epic moments though. Them Primarchs sure are pretty headstrong fellahs.

Yeah the Dark Angles books from HH are some of the worst and almost fanfic quality bad

hairyheretic

I enjoyed the first 4, and the Thousand Sons one was also good. The rest .. varying quality. The Dark Angels ones, or certainly the first one, shouldn't have been part of the Heresy series. It added nothing to the story arc.

I'm looking forwards to reading the one dealing with the Word Bearers, as I'd suspected for years that they were actually the cause of the Heresy (or at least a major contributor). I expect good things from the upcoming Space Wolf HH book as well.

Frisbee

I liked the first three HH novels, and the ALpha Legion one to an extent, but overall they're not great.

Anything by Abnett seems to always be the best they publish.

Dacian

Theres a new writer with BL and he is pretty darn great.

Aaron Demski-Bowden.

He has written the last Night Lords book (with a sequel enroute) and the Black Templars book 'Helreach'.

'Path of the Warrior' wasn't too bad as it did show a side of the Eldar we haven't seen before. Have never liked Gav Thorpes books.

I don't think you could have a Necron/Tyranid book and any Ork book would have to be a gretchin based comedy. Afterall Orks just want to fight.

bloodclaw

Dacian wrote: »

Theres a new writer with BL and he is pretty darn great.

Aaron Demski-Bowden.

He has written the last Night Lords book (with a sequel enroute) and the Black Templars book 'Helreach'.

Agreed he's gone on the list of BL authors who I'll follow what they write.
Dan Abnett
Graham McNiell
Sandy Mitchell
Aaron Demski-Bowden

If their name is on it you've a very strong chance of enjoying the story

Angron

Just starting to read these, I've started the Ultramarines series by Graham McNeill, and I picked up A Thousand Sons too. Liking the Ultramarines so far anyway.

Dave_The_Sheep

Horus Rising - Dan Abnett
False Gods - Graham McNeill
Galaxy in Flames - Ben Counter

The three of these were very good, False Gods not quite so much as the other two, but still excellent.

The Flight of the Eisenstein - James Swallow - Not bad actually. A bit disjointed, and got a bit weird towards the end, but pretty good all the same.

Fulgrim - Graham McNeill - I liked this one. Great the way they showed the descent into chaos of the Emperor's Children and finished off the Saul Tarvitz/Lucius storyline.

Descent of Angels - Mitchel Scanlon - Pants.

Legion - Dan Abnett - Great style, decent storyline, nice bit of backstory from Grammaticus - including meeting the Emperor - and the choice for Alpharius Omegon at the end is quite the interesting one.

Battle for the Abyss - Ben Counter - Same as Flight of the Eisenstein, a bit disjointed, and the characters aren't the most well rounded. But it's not bad.

Mechanicum - Graham McNeill - As above. Not quite as good as Battle for the Abyss or Flight of the Eisenstein, since the storyline is so stuck on Mars. But its interesting to see the workings of the Mechanicum.

Dacian

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Descent of Angels - Mitchel Scanlon - Pants.

Legion - Dan Abnett - Great style, decent storyline, nice bit of backstory from Grammaticus - including meeting the Emperor - and the choice for Alpharius Omegon at the end is quite the interesting one.

Mechanicum - Graham McNeill - As above. Not quite as good as Battle for the Abyss or Flight of the Eisenstein, since the storyline is so stuck on Mars. But its interesting to see the workings of the Mechanicum.

I think 'Absolute Pants' is a better description. It should only be read if you have the sequel readily to hand. Great idea in theory but I think every reader was waiting for a stunning revelation concerning the Lion and Lucifer. 'They have swords' wasn't exactly that.

Legion- I think Abnett asked for and got permission to do what he wanted with the Alpha Legion. After all there is virtually no 'canon' on this legion. No known base planets, no known operating area, no real tactics apart from deception and misdirection. I think it was an interesting look at the posibilities that exist inside the 'Heresy'

Mechanicum- Think this got a raw deal as it veered from the core story of the Heresy but I really enjoyed it as a diversion from marines vs marines. Some fight sequences reminiscient of BattleTech novels.

Tales of Heresy- Adds a little spice to the story arc without too much diversion form the main story.

1000 Sons/Fall of Prospero - Great idea to have both sides of the story. Shame Abnetts illness prevented a side by side release. Enjoyed 1000 Sons, thought the TS marines to be arrogant and self indulgent. Disliked them! Such a difference from other portrayals in the HH series.



Nemesis- To be read this weekend. Another diversion from the core HH arc but am really looking forward to it. Assasins V assasins, whats not to like?

First Heretic- Will be interesting. As Erebus and the Wordbearers have already been set up as the 'Bad Guys' in the first 3 novels in the series. Will the BL continue this or try to get our sympathy for these crazy guys?Boo Hiss!! (And it is by Aaron D-B,his portrayal of the psychotic Night Lords is great)


I really hope they follow up the Garvial/Garro storyline. (James Swallow audiobook coming next year)I know the general theory on "what Garro did next" but want to read a novel about it. Hope more Night Lords stuff gets published too.

R0ot

Dacian wrote: »

Nemesis- To be read this weekend. Another diversion from the core HH arc but am really looking forward to it. Assasins V assasins, whats not to like?

First Heretic- Will be interesting. As Erebus and the Wordbearers have already been set up as the 'Bad Guys' in the first 3 novels in the series. Will the BL continue this or try to get our sympathy for these crazy guys?Boo Hiss!! (And it is by Aaron D-B,his portrayal of the psychotic Night Lords is great)

Nemesis was a good read, started Enforcer to pass the time before the First Heretic is released.

Coriolanus

Reading the Shira Calpurnia omnibus at the moment, can't remember the name.
Pretty interesting. As good as the GG books are, I like the look into the other corners of the worlds. The codexes etc have always fluffed out the military aspect pretty well, so this one and the Eisenhorn/Ravenor ones have been good to see other aspects of 40k life.
Titanicus was worth a read as well. Some really good imagery of the titans at war.

Dave_The_Sheep

Dacian wrote: »

I really hope they follow up the Garvial/Garro storyline.

Garro yeah, since he's still alive and kicking at the end of that book. But Garviel Loken should be a gonner. Sure, he was a great (if simplistic) character to have around - and the brother v. brother side of the Mournival was very well done - they shouldn't try and bring him back. He got the bollocks kicked out of him, and even if he survived the building falling on him on top of the rest of his injuries, almost certainly wouldn't survive the rest of the bombing. Bringing him back would be a bit cheap in my view.

Dacian

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Garro yeah, since he's still alive and kicking at the end of that book. But Garviel Loken should be a gonner. Sure, he was a great (if simplistic) character to have around - and the brother v. brother side of the Mournival was very well done - they shouldn't try and bring him back. He got the bollocks kicked out of him, and even if he survived the building falling on him on top of the rest of his injuries, almost certainly wouldn't survive the rest of the bombing. Bringing him back would be a bit cheap in my view.

But I thought they had left a plot hole that could have alllowed Garviel and a small number of loyal marines to escape Istvaan........something about an underground starport/starship hanger...............

Dave_The_Sheep

Dacian wrote: »

But I thought they had left a plot hole that could have alllowed Garviel and a small number of loyal marines to escape Istvaan........something about an underground starport/starship hanger...............

I think they did alright - something about the Ancient Rylanor going off to protect something underground, some hangar or something. I think one of the Emperor's Children makes reference to it somewhere down the line (after the battle).

Its a possibility alright, but I just feel it'd be cheap and belittle the series (not that I'm taking it overly seriously or anything). One of the good things about that three parter with the Mournival was the feeling of impending doom - the sense that this really wasn't going to have a happy ending. Nor should it, Horus' forces (eventually) massacre the Loyalists, and bombs the planet from orbit (again). The good guys, while making a stand, don't win. They die.

40K is a harsh universe, and it'd be nice if the books kept to this. Just my thoughts on it though.

crimsonfire

I love the Horus Heresy so far. The Dark Angels books were quite terrible yes and I expected a lot more considering I collected DA.

My favourites so far have been Legion, A Thousand Sons and Mechanicum. In the middle of Battle for the Abyss and have Tales of Heresy and Nemesis on the pile waiting to be read haha. Also listened to the audio books which were surprisingly good. Ravens Flight was my favourite. Anything by Graham Mc Neill and Dan Abnett is excellent.

heffomike54

Firstly great thread, I love the books from Black Library. I stopped playing 40k many years ago, but still keep reading the books. I am just re-reading the Space Wolves / Ragnar Blackmane series & I am a bit surprised they have not got mention so far. Think the first in the series, Space Wolf is a great introduction to the Space Wolves/ Space Marines's lifestyle & background & I personally think could be a great film.

Really enjoyed the Gaunt's ghosts books & the Ciaphas Cain series as well. The Night Lords book by Aaron Demski-Bowden was class, can't wait to read more from him. A great aspect of the Black Library books in my opinion is they tell stories about some aspects of the 40K world that don't get as much attention from the actual table top games or video games, such stories about titan crews or small unit actions by Guardsmen.

Angron

Started A Thousand Sons there, enjoying it so far. McNeill is a damn good writer imo

Angron

Finished up Thousand Sons a few days ago, I've ordered Mechanicum, just wondering is there any other suggestions of what to read? As far as I can see, the Dark Angels series is one to avoid..

Venom

Denny M wrote: »

Finished up Thousand Sons a few days ago, I've ordered Mechanicum, just wondering is there any other suggestions of what to read? As far as I can see, the Dark Angels series is one to avoid..

Battle for the Abyss was pretty bad I thought and adds little to the overall story.

The Ultramarine series is very good overall tho the 4th was kinda :eek: but 5th and 6th brought the series back on track.

Dave_The_Sheep

Tales of Heresy was quite good alright. The individual stories were excellent, though I'm not sure why the Last Church one was there, or the Angron one. They're good stories in their own right, and it's nice to see a bit of backstory, but they're not really Heresy related.

heffomike54

Another good series of books is Execution Hour & I think there is another book or 2 in the series but its based on an Imperial Gothic class Cruiser during the Gothic War. Great stories in my opinion. Probably have some details wrong here, sorry

Gunmonkey

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Tales of Heresy was quite good alright. The individual stories were excellent, though I'm not sure why the Last Church one was there, or the Angron one. They're good stories in their own right, and it's nice to see a bit of backstory, but they're not really Heresy related.

Well "The last church" kinda is, as the Great Crusade was to bring the idea of truth instead of holy worship to the humans scattered across the galaxy, so good to show how the Emperor dealt with religion on Terra. Can be kind of confusing in the novels on pinning down what the beliefs of the Astartes and imperium are (especially as I just started "The First Heretic", only 6 chapters in and already reads as one of the best of the HH series).

Angron

Just ordered in a bunch of books from BL, getting Flight of the Eisenstein, Salamander, Blood Angels omnibus, Horus Rising and gonna get the Dawn of War omnibus (giving it a go seeing as it was the Dawn of War games that got me interested in the backstory of 40k)

Venom

Denny M wrote: »

Just ordered in a bunch of books from BL, getting Flight of the Eisenstein, Salamander, Blood Angels omnibus, Horus Rising and gonna get the Dawn of War omnibus (giving it a go seeing as it was the Dawn of War games that got me interested in the backstory of 40k)

Horus Rising and Eisenstein are damm good reads, Salamander was ok and the BA stuff was kinda meh imho. The DoW books just use the characters from the game in pretty odd ways tho.

Gunmonkey

Denny M wrote: »

Just ordered in a bunch of books from BL, getting Flight of the Eisenstein, Salamander, Blood Angels omnibus, Horus Rising and gonna get the Dawn of War omnibus (giving it a go seeing as it was the Dawn of War games that got me interested in the backstory of 40k)

Just so ya know, the 2 books False Gods and Galaxy in Flames take place between Horus Rising and Flight of the Eisenstein to make a 4 book series, jumping between the 2 you have could be a bit disconcerting as it implies that you know most of the characters by the time you read FotE.

Dave_The_Sheep

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Well "The last church" kinda is, as the Great Crusade was to bring the idea of truth instead of holy worship to the humans scattered across the galaxy, so good to show how the Emperor dealt with religion on Terra. Can be kind of confusing in the novels on pinning down what the beliefs of the Astartes and imperium are (especially as I just started "The First Heretic", only 6 chapters in and already reads as one of the best of the HH series).

It's a nice bit of backstory, yes. But relevant to the Heresy (other than in the most vague sense, since the Emperor is involved) - I just don't see it. You could as easily say that a story about how the Emperor united the warring factions on Earth was Heresy related. I'm not complaining much though, since it was a good read.

heffomike54

Another great series of books is the Last Chancer's series. The first two were brilliant, third one was a bit hit and miss. But defo worth a read IMO.:)

crimsonfire

heffomike54 wrote: »

Another good series of books is Execution Hour & I think there is another book or 2 in the series but its based on an Imperial Gothic class Cruiser during the Gothic War. Great stories in my opinion. Probably have some details wrong here, sorry

Execution Hour was the first BL book I read all those years ago lol. Shadow Point is the book you're thinking of. Yes they were excellent! Would love to see more stories from the Gothic fleets perspective. Void combat reads really well I think.

Dave_The_Sheep

Finished "A Thousand Sons" there the last day. Top notch stuff, top 3 if not the best book in the Horus Heresy series. The realisation of what he has done by Magnus when he tries to warn the Emperor and how he saved his legion wasn't such a great idea after all... heartbreaking for him. Well worth the read, really interesting in seeing it from the Space Wolves side now.

Although, given the ending ...

Angron

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Finished "A Thousand Sons" there the last day. Top notch stuff, top 3 if not the best book in the Horus Heresy series. The realisation of what he has done by Magnus when he tries to warn the Emperor and how he saved his legion wasn't such a great idea after all... heartbreaking for him. Well worth the read, really interesting in seeing it from the Space Wolves side now.

Although, given the ending ...

Agree fully, great book, and McNeill is a great writer. I've read Prospero Burns too, well worth it I think.

BTJ

Amazed no one's mentioned this yet, but Lord of the Night was absolutely amazing.

Dave_The_Sheep

Denny M wrote: »

I've read Prospero Burns too, well worth it I think.

I didn't even think it was out. Good stuff, will have to get my hands on it.

Gunmonkey

Yeah, Prospero Burns kidna snuck out earlier this month (along with God King, winging its way from Amazon to me doorstep as we type). really liking it, gives a very good view of the Space Wolves over the usual "LOLZ tehy R savages...." that seems to make them so popular in 40k circles.

hairyheretic

Prospero Burns puts a rather different slant on the Wolves, IMO.

heffomike54

Another great book in my opinion is the Words of Bloods, collection of short stories. The first story in the book is called Words of Blood and it brilliant, its about the Black Templars taking on a Khorne army.