New Graduated Driving Licensing System for Learner Drivers

TestTransmission

New Graduated Driving Licensing System for Learner Drivers

According to Newstalk ,the RSA will be announcing the introduction of such a scheme ,this summer.They advised there would be no night time curfew or restriction on carrying passengers.

Is this all too little too late or do you welcome such a scheme?

Yakult

Depends, what will it consist of do you know? Known the RSA, its probably 40 more questions on the theory test with a fancy new name.

cyclopath2001

TestTransmission wrote: »

According to Newstalk ,the RSA will be announcing the introduction of such a scheme ,this summer.They advised there would be no night time curfew or restriction on carrying passengers.

Is this all too little too late or do you welcome such a scheme?

A bit of education is nevr any harm, but isn't there an assumption being made that drivers break road traffic laws because of lack of training?

Law-breaking drivers know they must stop on amber, they know they shouldn't park on footpaths, they know it's not allowed to use a handphone while driving, they know they should stay within the speed limit, they just don't care.

Load of arse really, statistically are the provisional drivers of this nation so bad ? Are many accidents caused by poor driver training or are they caused by sheer bravado and dangerous driving. Having some driving lessons before being allowed sit a test will not cut down on speeding or reckless driving.

Jenna69

RoverJames wrote: »

Load of arse really, statistically are the provisional drivers of this nation so bad ? Are many accidents caused by poor driver training or are they caused by sheer bravado and dangerous driving. Having some driving lessons before being allowed sit a test will not cut down on speeding or reckless driving.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree, i would love to know the stats regarding accidents since the beginning of the year and whether they are caused by full licenced drivers or LP drivers. I'm sure it would make very interesting reading.

Anan1

TestTransmission wrote: »

New Graduated Driving Licensing System for Learner Drivers

According to Newstalk ,the RSA will be announcing the introduction of such a scheme ,this summer.They advised there would be no night time curfew or restriction on carrying passengers.

Is this all too little too late or do you welcome such a scheme?

There isn't (IMO) enough information there for a rational person to form an opinion.

Michael B

TestTransmission wrote: »

New Graduated Driving Licensing System for Learner Drivers

According to Newstalk ,the RSA will be announcing the introduction of such a scheme ,this summer.They advised there would be no night time curfew or restriction on carrying passengers.

Is this all too little too late or do you welcome such a scheme?

Any more details on what it involves?

jester77

Michael B wrote: »

Any more details on what it involves?

List here of what's involved:

Irish Independent wrote:

• Learner drivers must pass the Driver Theory Test to get a learner permit. The test costs €35.60 and includes questions on rules of the road, risk perception, technical aspects of the car and driving behaviour.
• Those who pass get a driver theory test certificate. This is valid for two years, meaning the test can be taken at 15 years.
• A learner permit is a licence which allows inexperienced drivers to learn to drive and to apply for a driving test. A person must be aged 17 years to apply, and it is valid for two years. It costs €15.
• Permit holders must be accompanied by a person with a full licence for at least two years. They must display 'L' plates and cannot drive on a motorway.
• Candidates must wait six months after receiving their learner permit before applying to sit the driving test. The test for driving a car costs €75.

How they will get it in future

• Learner drivers will still have to pass the theory test before getting a learner permit, and wait six months before applying to sit the driving test.
• They will also have to complete a number of hours of training given by an approved driving instructor.
• The RSA has suggested that 20 hours' training could be needed. This could cost up to €700.
• An approved syllabus from the Road Safety Authority would also have to be completed. This will include coping with road hazards and will set out the responsibilities of drivers.
• A log-book showing the number of hours spent practising would also have to be kept. This would be filled in by the accompanying driver.
• Measures that have been ruled out include imposing curfews and banning the carrying of passengers by inexperienced drivers.

Run_to_da_hills

It could cost up to e700 :eek:

Maybe those convicted drunk and dangerous driving be forced to do this course as well at their own expense.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ldrivers-face-tougher-training-to-get-licence-2263977.html

jester77

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It could cost up to e700 :eek:

I learned to drive in Germany a long while back, cost over €2000. I think €700 is cheap if it means you learn the rules properly. The test there involved lots of classes, theory test, first-aid test, and then lots of hours driving at different times of day/night on motorways, city, country side and estates. The driving didn't start until the second month but what you were learning in class was being put into practice and being showed to you while out driving and you were only ever allowed drive with an instructor, so no driving outside of class. Hopefully that is how they intend to apply it here!

Run_to_da_hills

jester77 wrote: »

I learned to drive in Germany a long while back, cost over €2000. I think €700 is cheap if it means you learn the rules properly. The test there involved lots of classes, theory test, first-aid test, and then lots of hours driving at different times of day/night on motorways, city, country side and estates. The driving didn't start until the second month but what you were learning in class was being put into practice and being showed to you while out driving and you were only ever allowed drive with an instructor, so no driving outside of class. Hopefully that is how they intend to apply it here!

€700 to begin with.

This is Ireland, give it a few years and it will exceed €2000.

bugler

As none of this is confirmed fully I'll hold off on judgement. I'd be concerned as to how and why this will be implemented. The cost for a start, that's a lot of money for a young driver. I assume there will be exemptions for people less well-off, or is that hopelessly naive?

Also, is any portion of this considerable sum of money going to find its way back to the State, by any chance?

Load of arse really, statistically are the provisional drivers of this nation so bad ? .

Whenever I read any article about learner drivers the article mentions that males aged 17-24 are most likely to be in an accident. The article never bothers to point out that these young men are not necessarily on provisionals or learner permits, nor do they give any justification for using this meaningless statistic without clarifying what proportion of them are actually learners.

Henry Ford III

I'm deeply cynical on this. The existing legislation on learner drivers isn't being evenly enforced, so why bother changing it?

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

€700 to begin with.
This is Ireland, give it a few years and it will exceed €2000.

so what if it does?

Driving and owning a car are an expensive luxury.
There is no reason why a minimum number of instructed hours should not be enforced, and maybe rates will even drop if level of hours increase. I doubt there are many who do anywhere near that number currently.

Hopefully this will also lead to lower insurance quotes for learners and new licence holders (though I doubt it)

Wile E. Coyote

RoverJames wrote: »

Load of arse really, statistically are the provisional drivers of this nation so bad ? Are many accidents caused by poor driver training or are they caused by sheer bravado and dangerous driving. Having some driving lessons before being allowed sit a test will not cut down on speeding or reckless driving.

It doesn't matter what the statistics are for provisional drivers. The fact is it's easier to educate drivers when they are just starting off than it is 5-10 years down the line when they've picked up loads of bad habits.

The cost should be irrelevant. If you want to drive then you have to put in the time to learn correctly. How many people are on the roads who have been 'taught' to drive by a friend who probably wouldn't pass a test themselves if they were to re-sit it?

bugler

bugler wrote: »

As none of this is confirmed fully I'll hold off on judgement. I'd be concerned as to how and why this will be implemented. The cost for a start, that's a lot of money for a young driver. I assume there will be exemptions for people less well-off, or is that hopelessly naive?
.

So what if it's a lot of money? People need to learn to drive safely and properly. Petrol insurance and tax are also a lot of money but a necessary part of owning a car. Having driving lessons will now be a necessary part of owning a car.
Far too many people out there with terrible driving habits and "I've been driving for x years you can't tell me I'm doing it wrong!" giving "lessons" to young drivers.
It's also a once-off cost which will hopefully give a good start to a lifetime of safer driving.

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so what if it does?

Driving and owning a car are an expensive luxury.

Thats a real Fianna Fail attitude.

In a country without a metro and a decent public transport system owning a car is a necessity.

sean1141

No amount of changes or new rules will change anything if people dont have some cop-on and respect for themselves and other road users.

Wile E. Coyote

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In a country without a metro and a decent public transport system owning a car is a necessity.

Should learning to drive correctly not be a necessity also?

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Thats a real Fianna Fail attitude.

In a country without a metro and a decent public transport system owning a car is a necessity.

Even more reason they should learn to drive properly if they're going to do it all the time.

superflyninja

on paper having mandatory driving lessons for beginners is a very good idea.but its the current full license holders on the roads,man alive, im only a learner driver for the last few months and some of the tings ive seen full licensed drivers do...............................

R.O.R

superflyninja wrote: »

on paper having mandatory driving lessons for beginners is a very good idea.but its the current full license holders on the roads,man alive, im only a learner driver for the last few months and some of the tings ive seen full licensed drivers do...............................

Possibly because they weren't taught correctly in the first place?

Run_to_da_hills

superflyninja wrote: »

on paper having mandatory driving lessons for beginners is a very good idea.but its the current full license holders on the roads,man alive, im only a learner driver for the last few months and some of the tings ive seen full licensed drivers do...............................

............especially women drivers.... :pac:

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

............especially women drivers.... :pac:

:mad:

bugler

People should not be punished for being poor. The public transport in our capital city is poor in terms of coverage, nevermind down the country. Owning a car for certain people in certain situations or areas is not a 'luxury'. It is necessary to get around, visit people, buy food. There's nothing like the arrogance of the unaffected, is there?

If this is such a necessity for road safety and the benefit of the public then let the government pay for it.

Liamario

I find it quite bemusing listening to some of the individuals who are already fully licensed be so smug. It's very easy for them to say that learners should pay for the privilege of learning to drive. I wonder if they would be so enthusiastic if it was brought in for those who are already licensed.
I myself am not fully licensed, but I can assure you I am a far better driver than at least half of the fully licensed drivers out there. It is clear to anyone with a brain that the issue isn't just with the learner drivers, but with driver's attitude in general.
A full license doesn't mean you are a competent driver.

Wile E. Coyote

bugler wrote: »

People should not be punished for being poor. The public transport in our capital city is poor in terms of coverage, nevermind down the country. Owning a car for certain people in certain situations or areas is not a 'luxury'. It is necessary to get around, visit people, buy food. There's nothing like the arrogance of the unaffected, is there?

If this is such a necessity for road safety and the benefit of the public then let the government pay for it.

Why should the government or me and every other tax payer have to pay for you to learn to drive?

This has nothing to do with punishing poor people. I'm not a rich man, I had no one to teach me so I had to pay for all my lessons. Your not expected to shell out for every lesson all at once. It's something you pay for over weeks and months as you take each lesson.

Liamario

Liamario wrote: »

I find it quite bemusing listening to some of the individuals who are already fully licensed be so smug. It's very easy for them to say that learners should pay for the privilege of learning to drive. I wonder if they would be so enthusiastic if it was brought in for those who are already licensed.
I myself am not fully licensed, but I can assure you I am a far better driver than at least half of the fully licensed drivers out there. It is clear to anyone with a brain that the issue isn't just with the learner drivers, but with driver's attitude in general.
A full license doesn't mean you are a competent driver.

How is promoting safe driving being smug? I can assure you I forked out quite a lot of money over a couple years or so for driving lessons, money I could barely afford, but I'm a better driver because of it. And of course I am still learning and improving every time I get into the car.
A full licence doesn't mean you're a good driver, not at all, but having compulsory lessons would go some way to improving that.

Wile E. Coyote

Liamario wrote: »

I myself am not fully licensed, but I can assure you I am a far better driver than at least half of the fully licensed drivers out there.

And that sentance right there is the problem with most drivers. You THINK your better than you actually are!

limklad

jester77 wrote: »

I learned to drive in Germany a long while back, cost over €2000. I think €700 is cheap if it means you learn the rules properly. The test there involved lots of classes, theory test, first-aid test, and then lots of hours driving at different times of day/night on motorways, city, country side and estates. The driving didn't start until the second month but what you were learning in class was being put into practice and being showed to you while out driving and you were only ever allowed drive with an instructor, so no driving outside of class. Hopefully that is how they intend to apply it here!

It not a bad idea to introduce here, but add simulated driving. Mock up car with computer Simulation software with large screens and having cameras to record the driver response under certain weather and driving conditions to show them how they been driving and what to do and what not to do under certain conditions.

I like first to have all drivers who are convicted in court for driving offences and and X number of Penalty to have do this course in additional to have to repeat their test before been allowed back on the road.

And eventually all those who have licence every 10 years to have refresher on Rules of the road and update their driving skills too.

There is far too many drivers out there who did not do a driving test and there is also complacent drivers who think they know the rules of the road or oblivious to their own bad driving behaviour.

This Graduated Driving Licensing System is a good start but it needs further enhancements.

jester77

bugler wrote: »

People should not be punished for being poor. The public transport in our capital city is poor in terms of coverage, nevermind down the country. Owning a car for certain people in certain situations or areas is not a 'luxury'. It is necessary to get around, visit people, buy food. There's nothing like the arrogance of the unaffected, is there?

If this is such a necessity for road safety and the benefit of the public then let the government pay for it.

I don't agree. If they can't afford to pay €700 to learn to drive then they certainly will not be able to afford a car, tax, insurance and the every day costs involved in running it. €700 is realistically only the equivalent cost of running a car for a few months.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Thats a real Fianna Fail attitude.

In a country without a metro and a decent public transport system owning a car is a necessity.

how is it a FF attitude? It just a statement of fact.
what does not having a metro have anything to do with it?

For the record I have a car. It costs me a lot of my income, I don't need it but I want it and it makes my life easier.

jester77

Looks more like a money making racket to me than anything. I would be very much against a compulsory number of lessons as for some people it would be a down right waste of money. I know it would have been for me, I learned to drive as a young lad long before I did a lesson and just did two before my test to get to know the course, I easily passed the test.

What good would 20 lessons have been to me other than line someones pockets?

jester77 wrote: »

I don't agree. If they can't afford to pay €700 to learn to drive then they certainly will not be able to afford a car, tax, insurance and the every day costs involved in running it. €700 is realistically only the equivalent cost of running a car for a few months.

But its 700 euro extra on top of everything else. Just because you can afford 700 euro to run a car does not mean you can afford to pay 1400 euro for a big heap of lessons and to run your car.

Mr. Presentable

Liamario wrote: »

I find it quite bemusing listening to some of the individuals who are already fully licensed be so smug. It's very easy for them to say that learners should pay for the privilege of learning to drive. I wonder if they would be so enthusiastic if it was brought in for those who are already licensed.
I myself am not fully licensed, but I can assure you I am a far better driver than at least half of the fully licensed drivers out there. It is clear to anyone with a brain that the issue isn't just with the learner drivers, but with driver's attitude in general.
A full license doesn't mean you are a competent driver.

Dude, you are not qualified to drive, how can you be qualified to judge everyone else's driving?

Why does any attempt to improve driving skills bring with it resistance from the very ones who'd benefit from it?

Cookie_Monster

Aaden Shaggy Crayon wrote: »

What good would 20 lessons have been to me other than line someones pockets?

but people like you will always be the exception rather than the rule. a lot of people out there won't be good enough even with 20 lessons. having 20 should also allow for more time to learn about all the sinage and procedures thats around rather than just physically being able to drive correctly. Pity they still won't adopt some form of motorway learning though.

Liamario

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

And that sentance right there is the problem with most drivers. You THINK your better than you actually are!

So, you're saying that nobody is good at driving. I don't understand the point you are making.
I never said I was a perfect driver. The point I was making is that there are fully licensed drivers out there, who shouldn't be on a bicycle much less be allowed drive a car.

Liamario

nipplenuts wrote: »

Dude, you are not qualified to drive, how can you be qualified to judge everyone else's driving?

Why does any attempt to improve driving skills bring with it resistance from the very ones who'd benefit from it?

I don't need to be a qualified driver to see **** driving. Do you think that because I'm not fully licensed that I am blind to the ways of bad driving??
So all I have to do is pass my test tomorrow, then I can say what is bad driving and what isn't!!!???? IT'S MAGIC!

I have no problems with the additional testing, my problem is with the bloody cost of it. Also, what about all the hours someone may have logged already. They're going to get thrown out the window. And another thing. How many of the fully licensed drivers out there can say they took 20 hours worth of lessons.

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but people like you will always be the exception rather than the rule. a lot of people out there won't be good enough even with 20 lessons. having 20 should also allow for more time to learn about all the sinage and procedures thats around rather than just physically being able to drive correctly. Pity they still won't adopt some form of motorway learning though.

Some people probably need more than 20 lessons tbh judging by some of the driving you see but others don't. The test should be the judge of that. In theory if your not ready you should fail, of course with our test this is probably not the case.

Motorway driving should definitely be part of the test/learning. I also think learners should have at least one lesson on a skid pad.

jester77

Aaden Shaggy Crayon wrote: »

But its 700 euro extra on top of everything else. Just because you can afford 700 euro to run a car does not mean you can afford to pay 1400 euro for a big heap of lessons and to run your car.

They shouldn't be on the road while they are learning. They are learning because they don't have the experience and skills to be on the road in the first place. The €700 they are spending to learn will be similar to what they are spending to keep a car on the road once they have passed their test.

Liamario

When these new rules are brought in for fully licensed drivers as well (which is should), we'll see how enthusiastic everyone is then.
It's hilarious to read how all these fully licensed drivers think they are fantastically safe on the roads and can think they can qualify themselves by saying, "I'm fully licensed, but I'm still learning".
Come down from your ivory towers!!!

Wile E. Coyote

Liamario wrote: »

When these new rules are brought in for fully licensed drivers as well (which is should), we'll see how enthusiastic everyone is then.
It's hilarious to read how all these fully licensed drivers think they are fantastically safe on the roads and can think they can qualify themselves by saying, "I'm fully licensed, but I'm still learning".
Come down from your ivory towers!!!

Fully licenced drivers can say things like that because most of us have put in the time, money and effort to earn our full licences. If you are as you say

a far better driver than at least half of the fully licensed drivers out there

why haven't you passed your test yet? You can't blame the expense as the new rule hasn't come in yet.

Why is it that some people refuse to accept that the best way to reduce stupid driving on our roads is to start with the newest drivers and take it from there? Teach them to respect the roads they drive on and the other road users around them and show them that driving is an expensive privilage not a right.

Liamario

Liamario wrote: »

When these new rules are brought in for fully licensed drivers as well (which is should), we'll see how enthusiastic everyone is then.
It's hilarious to read how all these fully licensed drivers think they are fantastically safe on the roads and can think they can qualify themselves by saying, "I'm fully licensed, but I'm still learning".
Come down from your ivory towers!!!

You just sound like you're throwing a strop now.

coyote wrote:

Fully licenced drivers can say things like that because most of us have put in the time, money and effort to earn our full licences.

Exactly.

Anan1

Liamario wrote: »

When these new rules are brought in for fully licensed drivers as well (which is should), we'll see how enthusiastic everyone is then.
It's hilarious to read how all these fully licensed drivers think they are fantastically safe on the roads and can think they can qualify themselves by saying, "I'm fully licensed, but I'm still learning".
Come down from your ivory towers!!!

I'd have no problem with regular retesting for fully licensed drivers. Nobody is arguing that a full license makes one a perfect driver - all it denotes is that the driver has demonstrated a basic level of competence behind the wheel during the test. You must, however, forgive us for being wary of drivers who haven't even managed that much?

Eric Cartman

superflyninja wrote: »

on paper having mandatory driving lessons for beginners is a very good idea.but its the current full license holders on the roads,man alive, im only a learner driver for the last few months and some of the tings ive seen full licensed drivers do...............................

+10000000000000

Cookie_Monster

Aaden Shaggy Crayon wrote: »

I also think learners should have at least one lesson on a skid pad.

+1

I'd actually find that quite interesting and enjoyable I reckon.

Eric Cartman

Aaden Shaggy Crayon wrote: »

Looks more like a money making racket to me than anything. I would be very much against a compulsory number of lessons as for some people it would be a down right waste of money. I know it would have been for me, I learned to drive as a young lad long before I did a lesson and just did two before my test to get to know the course, I easily passed the test.

What good would 20 lessons have been to me other than line someones pockets?





But its 700 euro extra on top of everything else. Just because you can afford 700 euro to run a car does not mean you can afford to pay 1400 euro for a big heap of lessons and to run your car.

If this was successful drivers would have a propper education and insurance may go down , so the 2500 euro quotes 18 year old lads currently get could become 1800 euro (still high enough for sean quinn to fatten his wallet but a saving for the cost of the lessons

Jenna69

jester77 wrote: »

They shouldn't be on the road while they are learning. They are learning because they don't have the experience and skills to be on the road in the first place. The €700 they are spending to learn will be similar to what they are spending to keep a car on the road once they have passed their test.

And just where are we supposed to learn? In a field somewhere in the back of beyond as long as we are nowhere near any superbly qualified fully licenced drivers. And i suppose you were never a learner driver, you were born with a steering wheel in your hand!!!! Give us a break, we all have to start somewhere.

mickdw

Aaden Shaggy Crayon wrote: »

I also think learners should have at least one lesson on a skid pad.

Absolutely.

Liamario

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd have no problem with regular retesting for fully licensed drivers. Nobody is arguing that a full license makes one a perfect driver - all it denotes is that the driver has demonstrated a basic level of competence behind the wheel during the test. You must, however, forgive us for being wary of drivers who haven't even managed that much?

This just screams blind arrogance. I have seen and I am sure you have seen as well, fully licensed drivers who are a danger on the road.
Just because they kept it together for 15 minutes during a driving test, it doesn't mean that they are competent.
As far as I'm concerned, a full license isn't worth the paper it's printed on. So you must, however, forgive me for being wary of fully licensed drivers who can't manage to complete basic things like indicating.

superflyninja

R.O.R wrote: »

Possibly because they weren't taught correctly in the first place?

of course I was just agreeing that more stringent training wouldnt be a bad idea!

munchkin_utd

cant see what the deal is with thinking 700 euros for lessons being to much.

Lessons are a one off cost that will stand to you.

Insurance, maintenance etc on a car is recurring cost, money up in smoke, and a damn sight more every year than 700 euros for a young adult starting off with their first car.

I am minded of the mother a while back telling the story of her daughter who was on a provisional, never had a lesson, was caught and let off a number of times for driving unaccompanied by the guards, and ended up killing herself by crashing her car.
That she was unaccompanied was not what killed her. It was not being able to drive that did (according to her own mothers admission).

If she had compulsory lessons from an instructor, in a car with dual controls to minimise danger to other road users in the learning process, she may well still be alive today.
Actually, she almost definitely would, as you wouldnt get your learners permit till you ARE able to drive (if i understand correctly)