What is Anarchy?

Hazlittle

McDougal wrote: »

What a load of nonsense. Within 50 years of "Libertarianism" the world would be controlled by 10 or 12 corporations while 95% of people worked for them for sh1te wages. Libertarianism is the quickest road to serfdom. The law would be based upon who had the most guns. It's a disgusting system.

With what empirical evidence? All profitable movements have been in the move away from authority. Afraid of free will are you?

HavingCrack

I thought this thread was about anarchy not libertarianism . They're close enough as political/economic/insert whatever you want here models but they are not the same thing.

simplistic2

McDougal wrote: »

What a load of nonsense. Within 50 years of "Libertarianism" the world would be controlled by 10 or 12 corporations while 95% of people worked for them for sh1te wages. Libertarianism is the quickest road to serfdom. The law would be based upon who had the most guns. It's a disgusting system.

I agree libertarianism is the beginning of the road to serfdom. I think it is lunacy to think that a piece of paper known as constitution will be able to restrict a monopoly of violence. This is just wishful thinking and I think that it is a waste of resources to even try to shrink the state and many libertarians could spent their time more effectively working toward creating small pockets of anarchy in different countries to collapse the state and prove the brilliance of the free market.

simplistic2

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Look, freedom is a very romantic notion and all, it sounds very pleasing.
We can bring out some extreme versions with Charlton Heston saying
"from my cold dead hands" or whatever, but the simple fact is that if you
advocate a society in which people are just "free" we will have a situation
in which there is freedom for the few - those who have money - and the
rest, those incorrigible dogs who've refused to devote their lives to industry,
will have nothing. What happens to the unemployed under your freedom?

As I've already asked a few times at this stage & been ignored, how does
what you're advocating benefit the poor & why should they give up a system
in which people have fought tirelessly in order to grant them some
fundamental necesssities?

What do you do to help the poor? If you care about the poor then you will help the poor , government or not.

Centralized currencies , taxation , regulation , fines for non -violent crimes lavish social welfare benefits. Take your pick all of these keep the poor POOR.

Hazlittle

A new anarchist movement has appeared. Next years political scene will be a bit more interesting.

ANarcho-Munk

Hazlittle wrote: »

A new anarchist movement has appeared. Next years political scene will be a bit more interesting.

Got any links or name of the group for that?

simplistic2

Hazlittle wrote: »

A new anarchist movement has appeared. Next years political scene will be a bit more interesting.

I think its gonna take a few years to get anything major off the ground but the first few steps are pretty exciting!

Hazlittle

ANarcho-Munk wrote: »

Got any links or name of the group for that?

I dont think they have a name or a website yet. Its springing from the Freeman Movement.

simplistic2 wrote: »

I think its gonna take a few years to get anything major off the ground but the first few steps are pretty exciting!

Its not a question should we have anarchy, its a matter of when we will have anarchy.

sponsoredwalk

"a bunch of people who see themselves as Heros in an Ayn Rand Novel."

"Just a bunch of John Galt wannabes.".

These are taken from a forum online discussing your hero's and I think that
about sums it up.

Oh wait, we've got some David Icke associations in there too :pac:
This is the man who is known for "arguing that the reptilians were the
original authors of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion—a 1903 faked
Russian document purporting to be a plan by the Jewish people to achieve
world domination".link

Doublethinkcheck that birth cert of yours, now! You may have been
targeted!

EDIT: My new favourite

"You do realize that we are talking about people who claim that when faced with a collection agency, debtors can simply giving the debt holders a number from one's birth certificate and the debt will be immediately and completely dismissed. We are talking about people who believe that if one is being sued in civil court, all one has to do is utter the phrase "admiralty flag" while pointing at the U.S. flag displayed in the courtroom and the judge will immediately stop the proceeding and dismiss the case. We are talking about people who believe there is legal difference of the greatest import between one's name spelled in lower case letters and one's name spelled in capital letters."
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=137231&page=3

Btw, they have said they are "not anarchists" so please get that trash out
of this thread.

There is a 96 page debunking of them on the James Randi forums if you
care to engage criticism of their idea's. The main thrust of the early
pages are between Especially & DrKitten, if you truly think these people
have some merit in their idea's then I assume your honest enough to
withstand criticism so you'll enjoy that thread.

Seriously, the idea's we're getting here, friendly police-under-another-name,
encouraging a rapist to attend therapy, let a bunch of
John Galt's indulge in their teenage fantasies by taking power, it's
no wonder you have people critical of anarchism, if the discussions are to
go down this route there'll never be anything like an anarchist form of
"governance".

Keep the libertarian-tained craziness in the libertarian threads :cool:

I'm sick of reading pop-politics here, the main ways we're going to
have change are gradually & naturally seeing as all of the striking political
acheivements have been against the might of the state in a natural
struggle towards what's best for - humans, we need to continus this
struggle by keeping an eye on power, by organizing protests over serious
issues & sticking with them over time, by ensuring no corruption enters
unions & that companies do not engage in union/strike-breaking
activities of any sort.
The last thing we need to do is allow libertarian crazies indulge in their
libertarious feelings that just so happen to result in taking away
hard-earned political rights for the poor & low-paid workers (I've mentioned
this already a few pages back). There is too much historical evidence
showing how messed up things get for people not in the loop of
lusting after money.

Freemen - Definitely NOT sheep wrote:

The Freeman Movement - Knowledge for a Price

Thursday, January 29, 2009

(Revised: Friday, February 13, 2009)

Commentary by David-Scott: Goldberg

When my friends and acquaintances initially got involved with the Freeman Movement we were thrilled with the great ocean of knowledge that was presented to us in an open and uncompromising way. The knowledge pertaining to who we really are (human beings v.s. legal persons), how the government puppets and their banker puppets are leveraging and enslaving us through income taxes, how statutes (acts) aren't really laws that need to be followed, how to file a claim of right and file it properly. This knowledge is something we considered (and still do consider) priceless. We felt that any Freeman that was taking his or her time to research this information and share it with the world not only deserved our full respect, but if the these helpful living souls chose to have seminars on the subject that we would be willing to reach into our pockets and give back a little bit of debt note for their efforts.

Then suddenly, like a flash of light, it all changed sometime in the Summer of 2008. The supposedly honourable Freemen that so many of us had the utmost respect for were NOW being exposed publicly on web-forums and web-sites as dishonest and greedy charlatans - dishonourable ones at that. Now to call someone in the Freeman movement dishonourable is quite a serious allegation; and anyone making these allegations had better back up their claims with more than a few vague accusations or they better be prepared to face some serious backlash from the movement.

These leaders of the movement were charging for "Freeman Packages" and not delivering the promised goods as advertised on the web-site then not taking personal responsibility when the customer (a fellow Freeman) complains that they never got what they had originally paid for; blaming others and refusing to compromise. These so-called leaders and servants of freedom and liberty that we respected were now acting like dishonourable, adolescent "children of the state" that they were supposedly trying to free from the system! To add insult to injury customers who did order the "Freeman Packages" complained that the quality of the materials were poor, some complained that some of the materials sent were inconsistent with what others had ordered - they called it outright sloppiness and laziness... many of us agreed. Information presented within was already freely available on the Internet and had been revised and improved way beyond what was included in the pages of the paid-for materials. Clearly this was and still is an unacceptable way to represent the movement. These self-appointed leaders and our guides had cast a very large shadow over the movement, causing the once tight-knit unified group of freedom lovers to break apart into several different groups all eventually doing their own thing or simply giving up.

Fast forward to January 2009. What is harming our movement now? Pretty much the same thing. Greed and dishonesty. So-called experts are charging large sums of money to naïve and not-so-naïve Freemen (and Freemen-to-be) to learn how to "cash out" (as in receive fiat currency debt instruments) on their supposed security, the bond, which is being held in trust and traded on private financial markets... all to my surprise and the surprise of a lot of other Freemen who seem to be buying into this "Magnificent Deception". We're being told by many of the same ol' charlatans and a few new ones that they, yet again, have all the answer to our financial woes and problems (that's some good timing if you look at the world crisis we're facing) and that they can offer us not only the solution but proof of it for a small one-time fee of [insert sales man voice] only $200, $300, $400, or more! Wow what a deal. Hey geniuses if this claim were true you would not have to charge people for this gem of information; you would all be millionaires living the sweet life on some island.

These leaders release low production quality videos online and with classic slight of hand techniques and weak comedic distraction they reel us in like cod and then subject us to Gitmo-style water torture for over two hours... dying to make us believe that in their absolutely amazing video they will teach us how to get rich quick! Are we all that stupid? Is the Freeman Movement really filled with that many lazy idiots? The same intellectually lazy idiots that only 10 years prior were all buying into these make money fast Multi-Level-Marketing (MLM) pyramid schemes? It seems so!

They tell us that they will show us how to "cash out" on the supposed bond and take back full control the securities which were created without our consent back when our parents registered us at birth. Like the same old sheep we'll buy into this lie and watch; partly out of a sick curiosity to see what these guys will do next to embarrass themselves on a massive scale. However two hours later we'll finish watching this video and wonder what the hell just happened. We'll have horrible nightmares about the amateur circa 1990's special effects and how we were subjected to twenty plus minutes of some really really bad jokes. We'll wake up in a cold sweat, heart racing... realizing at that moment that the joke was really on us!

There was no solution was there? No clear and precise answer to how we can finally quit our slavery jobs and live the easy life with our bond. Tax free. Worry free. We won't... and why is that? It is because we were lied to yet again and we were made to believe that our fearless leaders would give us the answer to getting a "free lunch" - but anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows that there is no such thing as a free lunch!

Use your head. Stop believing these lies. Stop believing the Freeman movement is a simple one size fits all solution to all of our problems or that the answers can be given to us in the form of a package or an amateur video or amateur seminar. The Freeman movement in my opinion is a journey that never ends. There will always be questions to be asked and answers to be found. We will need to constantly keep learning and un-learning, and working together as a team again. Thinking autonomously. Questioning everything and demanding proof; now that's what I call a truly Cunning Plan! We must not accept one man's word as truth without that hard evidence no matter how smooth and convincing he initially comes across as.

Stop acting like sheep. Stop buying into this confidence game because these con artist wolves in sheep's clothing are at your door a knockin'... and they are starving for a piece of you just like every other dishonourable underhanded person and organization that benefits from ignorance and fear.
http://www.pnnac.org/Freeman-Price.html

I've already said I'm no statist per-se but I do believe the state to be
thoroughally justified due to the power it has to look after people when
they fall on hard times, I'm not claiming it always works but it does
do things for people. I've said it before, you have to give reasons to
all of us that we should embrace "free markets" when the historical
evidence shows how free markets lead to a horrendously biased tipping of
the scales & that protectionism is how most wealthy countries today are
what they are.

If you think this is a lie pull out some history on us & we'll dissect it.

simplistic2

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

I've already said I'm no statist per-se but I do believe the state to be
thoroughally justified due to the power it has to look after people when
they fall on hard times, I'm not claiming it always works but it does
do things for people. I've said it before, you have to give reasons to
all of us that we should embrace "free markets" when the historical
evidence shows how free markets lead to a horrendously biased tipping of
the scales & that protectionism is how most wealthy countries today are
what they are.

If you think this is a lie pull out some history on us & we'll dissect it.

I agree the freeman movement is a load of bollix. I was involved with it from the very start over here because it started of being a movement based on the non-aggression principle. But then mutated into some spiritual -conspiracy load of bull**** and that really pissed me off so I dont really deal with them anymore.

So you believe that violence should be used against me if somebody else falls on hard times? Essentially this makes you a man statist beliefs.

And for the last time the burden of proof is on the statist!!!! If you want to learn about how anarchy could benefit everyone in society you can read this short book.

http://freedomainradio.com/board/blogs/freedomain/archive/2008/11/14/practical-anarchy-the-book.aspx

Hazlittle

I'm not required to respond to ad hominen attacks.

simplistic2

Hazlittle wrote: »

I'm not required to respond to ad hominen attacks.

yes you are you bastard

ANarcho-Munk

Hazlittle wrote: »

I dont think they have a name or a website yet. Its springing from the Freeman Movement.



Its not a question should we have anarchy, its a matter of when we will have anarchy.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-State-Project-Ireland/150136225010644


oh, hai!

It's refreshingly as crazy looking as I thought it would be, if that is your group?

Hazlittle

ANarcho-Munk wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-State-Project-Ireland/150136225010644


oh, hai!

It's refreshingly as crazy looking as I thought it would be, if that is your group?

I am not a member of any group. So no. I am me. If I was a member of a anarchist group I would at least design a more sensible logo than that.

simplistic2

http://www.freedomireland.com/

This is the link to the new anarchist movement of the capitalist kind.

woodchopper

A load of old rubbish