Why does Iran get a pass?

Yitzhak Rabin

Why is there no threads or acknowledgement of what a horrendous regime exists in Iran? Here on the CT forum Iran seems to get a pass. They are almost always seen as the victim. They are rarely criticised, and all of the criticism is directed at Israel or the US. Why is there the double standard?

In the US people are free to do and say what they want. They can criticize the government, they can elect their officials, they can practice whatever religion they want or none at all, they can be gay pretty much without fear of abuse...the list goes on

In Iran the theocratic government punishes gays with...death, adultery with....death, apostasy with....death.

For adultery its not just death, its death by stoning. Take a moment to imagine what a horrific death that is. The victim(usually a woman) is dragged to a plot in the desert, is buried chest hight in sand so she cannot move, her tormentors then line up with stones (specially picked so they are not large enough to kill, but large enough to hurt) and then for an hour or so pelt them with rocks. Often their children are forced to watch It is an absolutely agonising death that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, let alone an innocent (in my eyes, not sharia law) woman.





While I'm on the topic take the moment to read up on the current case of Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani who is a widow who apparently committed adultery. She was imprisoned and lashed 99 TIMES. She is still in prison and is now due to suffer a horrible death by stoning for having sex. Iran's law is disgusting.

Watch this video and sign the petition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlcDv8hu1y8

Anyway, so no doubt someone will ask "Whats the CT?" So the answer is that that there is an implicit double standard by people whereby the US and Israel is held to a higher standard than middle eastern states, for whatever reason...

(EDIT: Bit of a ranty post, but I'm hungover and pissed off after reading about Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani case)

PirateShampoo

Becuase thier not Jewish?

Yitzhak Rabin

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Becuase thier not Jewish?

I actually reckon thats what it boils down to. I agree its not anti-semitic to criticise Israel, and they've down some bad sh1t, like the flotilla massacre. But day in day out Islamic states commit absolutely sickening acts, and don't even get a mention, and I reckon the reason is people want to hate of the jewz even though their neighbours are just as bad, if not worse.

Einhard

I think part of it stems from the fact that America and Israel are western democracies and both hold themselves to a higher standard, and portray themselves to the world as being more enlightened and civilised in the liberal western sense. Thus, when they breach those standards the condemnation is vociferous. Also, as open democracies, Israel and America allow a free and open press, which reports on their "abuses". This doesn't generally happen in Iran or any of the other theocracies in the region. Another reason for the double stand I believe, is that people, even professional activists, only have so much time and energy to devote to outrage and indignation. Thus they adopted the Palestinians as a pet cause and direct most of their attentions towards that area. It helps that, in the Palestinians they have an entire people as a focal point, whereas in Iran or wherever, this isn't the case. Also, whatever one might have thought of Arafat, there is no doubting his charisma, and he and the PLO were a good fit for the kind of chic-radicalism that existed in the 70s, and which informs so much of public opinion today.

PirateShampoo

yekahs wrote: »

I actually reckon thats what it boils down to. I agree its not anti-semitic to criticise Israel, and they've down some bad sh1t, like the flotilla massacre. But day in day out Islamic states commit absolutely sickening acts, and don't even get a mention, and I reckon the reason is people want to hate of the jewz even though their neighbours are just as bad, if not worse.

Pretty much. A couple of people on here would have mental break downs if it was Israel committing the acts that some Islamic states are committing, but because its not the evils Jews doing it then they couldn't careless.

Jeboa Safari

Alot of people are just anti-American and anti-Israeli here and will conveniently ignore anything done by the other side. I think they resent the fact that America is so powerful, and can't understand how they would act in their own self-interest even though every other country does

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Becuase thier not Jewish?

No offence but that is a terribly ignorant thing to say. Iran has the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East bar Israel.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No offence but that is a terribly ignorant thing to say. Iran has the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East bar Israel.

Yeah they make up a whopping 0.035% of the population.

There's a larger jewish population here in terms of percentage.

Torakx

Irans internal problems as seen by the west are not issues for the americans.We all know what they are up to.
It was similar with Iraq and the dictator Sadam Hussein.
After 9/11 they took Iraq and Afghanistan......
Iran is the next natural progression for them and that is what i am against.Im not against liberating oppressed people.I am against the exspansion of the americans power.
Once they "liberate" these countries i am pretty sure puppet dictators or governments are placed to keep control.
The Iranian people might indeed need help or assistance but the kind they will recieve from the americans is going to be more people bombed or tied up and photographed like animals.
Its never as simple as black and white.For now it seems war is on the horizon and i would prefer that not to happen to the Iranians despite any current human rights issues that might be prevailent for the last few hundred years.There are other ways to liberate a people.
Imo america or russia has the power to do is through the media but they would make more money if theygo in with guns and bombs and take some gas and oil for booty.

Brown Bomber

yekahs wrote: »

Why is there no threads or acknowledgement of what a horrendous regime exists in Iran? Here on the CT forum Iran seems to get a pass. They are almost always seen as the victim. They are rarely criticised, and all of the criticism is directed at Israel or the US. Why is there the double standard?

I don't see it as a double-standard. Speaking for myself, and I believe I have been as critical of USrael as anyone else, I have never defended any actions I see as morally wrong such as the examples you have given above.

I think states should be judged by their own standards and the standards they expect of others. For simplicity I'll stick with your example of US/Israel vs Iran.

Iran's recent history

• What came to become BP found oil in the 20th Century. Iran was under British/Russian colonial rule at the time.
• After WWI and the Russian revolution BP raped Iran for all its worth.
• In 1951 Iran elected a nationalist leader Mossadeq who intended the nationalise Iran's (BP's) oil wells.
• To prevent this the CIA and MI5 organised Operation Ajax a succesful military coup which led to Iran's natural wealth faliing into the hands of the British/American thieves.
• The Shah ruled Iran with US/British interests in mind until the Islamic Revolution in 79'

Yitzhak Rabin

Torakx wrote: »

Irans internal problems as seen by the west are not issues for the americans.We all know what they are up to.
It was similar with Iraq and the dictator Sadam Hussein.
After 9/11 they took Iraq and Afghanistan......
Iran is the next natural progression for them and that is what i am against.Im not against liberating oppressed people.I am against the exspansion of the americans power.
Once they "liberate" these countries i am pretty sure puppet dictators or governments are placed to keep control.
The Iranian people might indeed need help or assistance but the kind they will recieve from the americans is going to be more people bombed or tied up and photographed like animals.
Its never as simple as black and white.For now it seems war is on the horizon and i would prefer that not to happen to the Iranians despite any current human rights issues that might be prevailent for the last few hundred years.There are other ways to liberate a people.
Imo america or russia has the power to do is through the media but they would make more money if theygo in with guns and bombs and take some gas and oil for booty.

I'm not in favour of invasion of any kind. As you said there are other ways to liberate people.

But thats not the question I'm trying to get answered. I'm trying to figure out why people go absolutely apesh1t when the Israeli government commits crime, but there is a more disgusting crime in Iran, there is a 'conspiracy of silence' if you will.

Take for example the death of Rachel Corrie, there was uproar. It was discussed numerous times here, and the usual anti-israeli comments and backslapping went on. Compare that to the murder of Neda Agha-Soltan, not a word here. Never even mentioned. Here's a video of it, but be warned its graphic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hsayqbXk1w

WakeUp

yekahs wrote: »

Anyway, so no doubt someone will ask "Whats the CT?" So the answer is that that there is an implicit double standard by people whereby the US and Israel is held to a higher standard than middle eastern states, for whatever reason...

I'm sorry but with all due respect that is just ridiculous in that this thread is pointless and certainly does not belong in the conspiracy theory forum it’s more suited to politics/philosophy. There is no conspiracy here Iranian policies are there for all to see.

Nobody who has an idea of what goes on in Iran will deny, and shouldn't deny, that the majority of their laws in relation to capital punishment and human rights are downright disgusting and wrong, that's not up for debate it’s agreed.

There is a vast amount of people in Iran who despise the current regime and would like nothing more than for them to be overthrown. At the moment there are strikes all over the country, the people are starting to stir a lot of them have had enough and want change. The only people who are truly going to change things in Iran are the Iranian people themselves not Western bombs. I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself more to what is actually happening on the ground in Iran. If the US & Israel decide to bomb the place it will have the opposite effect, it will tighten the current regimes control of the situation and make no mistake they are beginning to slowly but surely lose their vice like grip on the country.

When the revolution took over in the 80's a lot of the people supported it initially. The reason they supported it was because they had become tired of Western governments exploiting their country.
As the Mullahs consolidated their power through the Iranian revolutionary guards the people began to see the true face of the regime and the policies they were implementing and they did not like it but by this stage their power was absolute through the IRGC and it was to late.

By asking the question "Why does Iran get a free pass" and posting a thread like this, it would insinuate that the entire population of the country agree with these sort of things which is false, they don’t.

A vast amount of them want better relations with the West and despise the fact that the current regime seems to be alienating them even more. The Mullahs days are numbered and it will happen at the hands of the Iranian people not through Western bombs, but if the bombs start to fall it will change everything. It can not be allowed to happen.

Reactionary threads like this do not help the situation I’m not sure if your trying to Justify Western threats and War talk against Iran with this or just getting something of your chest. Either way it doesn't do anything constructive to the overall situation, only vaguely give credence to the Western demonisation of the Iranian people.

Amnesty International have a book you can sign in relation to one of the current cases in Iran with regard to stoning. You should visit their website and sign it I already have. As horrible and wrong as these policies are they are not an excuse to attack an entire people or population. This needs to be avoided at all costs it really does I cannot stress that enough if it happens everything changes.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I don't see it as a double-standard. Speaking for myself, and I believe I have been as critical of USrael as anyone else, I have never defended any actions I see as morally wrong such as the examples you have given above.

I think states should be judged by their own standards and the standards they expect of others. For simplicity I'll stick with your example of US/Israel vs Iran.

Iran's recent history

• What came to become BP found oil in the 20th Century. Iran was under British/Russian colonial rule at the time.
• After WWI and the Russian revolution BP raped Iran for all its worth.
• In 1951 Iran elected a nationalist leader Mossadeq who intended the nationalise Iran's (BP's) oil wells.
• To prevent this the CIA and MI5 organised Operation Ajax a succesful military coup which led to Iran's natural wealth faliing into the hands of the British/American thieves.
• The Shah ruled Iran with US/British interests in mind until the Islamic Revolution in 79'

I disagree, surely people should be just judged by what is right or wrong. By that token, because Iran doesn't expect anyone else to respect human rights, there is no need to criticise their disgraceful human rights record.

Why do you not see it as a double standard. Why are you so critical of Israel, but never of Iran?

Yitzhak Rabin

WakeUp wrote: »

I'm sorry but with all due respect that is just ridiculous in that this thread is pointless and certainly does not belong in the conspiracy theory forum it’s more suited to politics/philosophy. There is no conspiracy here Iranian policies are there for all to see.

Nobody who has an idea of what goes on in Iran will deny, and shouldn't deny, that the majority of their laws in relation to capital punishment and human rights are downright disgusting and wrong, that's not up for debate it’s agreed.

There is a vast amount of people in Iran who despise the current regime and would like nothing more than for them to be overthrown. At the moment there are strikes all over the country, the people are starting to stir a lot of them have had enough and want change. The only people who are truly going to change things in Iran are the Iranian people themselves not Western bombs. I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself more to what is actually happening on the ground in Iran. If the US & Israel decide to bomb the place it will have the opposite effect, it will tighten the current regimes control of the situation and make no mistake they are beginning to slowly but surely lose their vice like grip on the country.

When the revolution took over in the 80's a lot of the people supported it initially. The reason they supported it was because they had become tired of Western governments exploiting their country.
As the Mullahs consolidated their power through the Iranian revolutionary guards the people began to see the true face of the regime and the policies they were implementing and they did not like it but by this stage their power was absolute through the IRGC and it was to late.

By asking the question "Why does Iran get a free pass" and posting a thread like this, it would insinuate that the entire population of the country agree with these sort of things which is false, they don’t.

A vast amount of them want better relations with the West and despise the fact that the current regime seems to be alienating them even more. The Mullahs days are numbered and it will happen at the hands of the Iranian people not through Western bombs, but if the bombs start to fall it will change everything. It can not be allowed to happen.

Reactionary threads like this do not help the situation I’m not sure if your trying to Justify Western threats and War talk against Iran with this or just getting something of your chest. Either way it doesn't do anything constructive to the overall situation, only vaguely give credence to the Western demonisation of the Iranian people.

Amnesty International have a book you can sign in relation to one of the current cases in Iran with regard to stoning. You should visit their website and sign it I already have. As horrible and wrong as these policies are they are not an excuse to attack an entire people or population. This needs to be avoided at all costs it really does I cannot stress that enough if it happens everything changes.

Find me one sentence in the OP that advocates, excuses or justifies a western invasion of Iran.

That is NOT what I am saying. I would be against any such action.

Also find anywhere where I equated the sick sh1t that goes on in Iran, as being representative of everyone in Iran.

I'm well able to be bot critical of Israel, and defend some of their actions. You'll find examples of this in the various threads posted here in the last few months.

The question I am simply asking is Why is Iran's darker side never discussed by the CT side? Its always Israel, Israel, Israel.

This thread is not aimed at being reactionary at all. The title isn't "Why we should bomb Iran" I asked a genuine question. Perhaps this is the reason:

There is no conspiracy here Iranian policies are there for all to see.

But I still don't think that answers the question as Israel and America's actions are there to see too. In fact moreso, as they both have transparent medias(well kinda)

WakeUp

yekahs wrote: »

The question I am simply asking is Why is Iran's darker side never discussed by the CT side?

I accept what your asking but you have to look at each situation as it presents itself. Why do we need to discuss their governments dark side? The stoning of people happens we know this its not a conspiracy. I still don't understand the relevance of your question though.

The reason Israel has been discussed a lot recently is for numerous reasons one of them being that they boarded an aid flotilla recently in international waters and murdered innocent aid workers. Then flatly denied any wrong doing.

The reason the US has been discussed among other things is in relation to their middle eastern conquest, because they invaded Iraq over lies. (WMD)

When was the last time Iran murdered aid workers in international waters and denied it or invaded a region on blatant lies. If they did something like that of course we would talk about it.

Torakx

yekahs wrote: »

I'm not in favour of invasion of any kind. As you said there are other ways to liberate people.

But thats not the question I'm trying to get answered. I'm trying to figure out why people go absolutely apesh1t when the Israeli government commits crime, but there is a more disgusting crime in Iran, there is a 'conspiracy of silence' if you will.

Take for example the death of Rachel Corrie, there was uproar. It was discussed numerous times here, and the usual anti-israeli comments and backslapping went on. Compare that to the murder of Neda Agha-Soltan, not a word here. Never even mentioned. Here's a video of it, but be warned its graphic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hsayqbXk1w

I think for me its just a simple matter of invasion.
I realise both Iran and Israel have a more oppressed people by religious standards and through religion.
But i have a habit of choosing the underdogs in fights.
Iran is surrounded by the USA and Israel.
All 3 countries have most likely and probably will continue to oppress people while ignoring their human rights.
But as i said it looks to me like the USA and Israel are the transgressors.Iran is surrounded and backed into a corner.If a nuke is fired off i will be blaming the USA and Israel for pushing Iran to its limits.
We could post videos of american soldiers murdering loads of Iraqis but it wont change the situation.
There are no good guys, only innocents and people craving power and religious rights.If Ireland was being oppressed in such a way that the people in general were horrified i would like to think they would rebel against their government.
It just seems to me that the USA coming in isnt going to be much help to the people there.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I don't see it as a double-standard. Speaking for myself, and I believe I have been as critical of USrael as anyone else, I have never defended any actions I see as morally wrong such as the examples you have given above.

I think states should be judged by their own standards and the standards they expect of others. For simplicity I'll stick with your example of US/Israel vs Iran.

Iran's recent history

• What came to become BP found oil in the 20th Century. Iran was under British/Russian colonial rule at the time.
• After WWI and the Russian revolution BP raped Iran for all its worth.
• In 1951 Iran elected a nationalist leader Mossadeq who intended the nationalise Iran's (BP's) oil wells.
• To prevent this the CIA and MI5 organised Operation Ajax a succesful military coup which led to Iran's natural wealth faliing into the hands of the British/American thieves.
• The Shah ruled Iran with US/British interests in mind until the Islamic Revolution in 79'

sorry wasn't finished

• The US then gave their major regional puppet Saddam all kinds of military support and had him invade Iran a little more than a year later.
• Iraq uses US biological and chemical weapons on the Iranians.
• This war lasts for almost two decades.

The point being the evolution of modern day Iran has been directly effected by the British and US.

Is it any wonder that they would wary of the West?

Iran hasn't attacked anyone in hundreds of years. They are accused of having nuclear weapons ambitions by two nuclear powers - one is the only nation in history to have fired nuclear weapons and the other "neither confirms nor denies" they have them, locks up Mordechai Vannunu (the Israeli technician who blew the whiste on the Israeli nuclear programme) for 18 years, 11 in solitary confinement (a world record I believe), after they drugged and kidnapped him in Italy, point-blank refuses to become a party to NPT and has placed Dolphin nuclear subs off the coast of Iran. Whereas Iran has by-and-large cooperated with UN weapons inspectors and there peaceful nuclear programme is compararable to Canadas for example. That is quite the double-standard.

The CIA have admitted that Iran's military expenditure is primarily "defensive" and their spending is less than their neighbours and just 2% of the USA's.

They are also accused of being state sponsors of terrorism by the US and Israel. Israel daily are terrorising a whole nation while the US has for decades has being sponsoring terrorists - Suharto in Indonesia, the Contras in Nicaragua, etc. Just yesterday they killed scores of innocent civilians IN IRAN through their terrorist group Jundullah.

And as we are in the the CT forum I think it is worth mentioning that their is ample circumstansial evidence linking Israel and the US to what I would consided false-flag attacks, 911 inclusive.

I think the crucial point is (speaking for myself) is that if you think people ignore the crimes of Iran or any other nation as a convenience or otherwise you are mistaken. With Iran, what you see is what you get there is universal disaproval of stonings and the like, their is universal condemnation of the militias in Darfur and Rwanda for example, everything is all out in the open, but their is not universal condemnation or even knowledge of the multitude of crimes committed by the US over the years or Israel who abuses the holocause to commit their daily atrocities. The US sets themselves up as the world moral leader when nothing could be further from the truth. Israel likewise but regionally.

profitius

With the Iranians what you see is what you get. The same certainly could not be said for Isreal which is the sneakiest state on the planet. If Isreal was your neighbour you'd make sure the windows and door locked at night.

Yitzhak Rabin

Cheers BB. Don't agree with everything you said, but I suppose it answers my question.

Lab_Mouse

profitius wrote: »

If Isreal was your neighbour you'd make sure the windows and door locked at night.

Only if you are lobbing rockets over into their garden;)

TalkieWalkie

Sneaky Iranians thought they was flying under the radar, thought we wouldn't notice what they are up to, but we got them now, SLAM them guys !!!! Any other countries out there think they getting away with murder will have to deal with us !!!

SuperInfinity

First of all, Iran does not care what people do consensually in their own homes. President Ahmadinejed has publically stated that homosexuals are free to do what they want in their own homes.

Public homosexuals are not treated with death in Iran, sometimes they receive lashings or prison sentences. All countries have laws regarding public display of affection and public decency.

Even prostitution is legal in Iran once you allegedly make an informal and quick "temporary marriage", in that sense it's ahead of most western countries.

The death sentences are only for despicable things for which they are absolutely sure, like death sentences are given out in the united states sometimes. For a population of 75 million, they don't have very many executions and they have to keep control.

Yes out of the 10s of thousands, there might be one or two old, senile Islamofascist judges who gives out the death sentence over something stupid like adultery and throwing her veil off and shouting at the judge like the recent woman did. The death sentence like this type of situation is practically never actually gone through with.

Don't confuse Iran with a REALLY fascist state like China or North Korea, where they behead people on allegations all the time... Nigeria... where they are extremely oppressed by their government, and so on.

I would much rather go to Iran and feel much safer there than somewhere like South Africa, where a huge percentage of people have guns and the homocide rate is at a phenomenal level.

Yitzhak Rabin

SuperInfinity wrote: »

First of all, Iran does not care what people do consensually in their own homes. President Ahmadinejed has publically stated that homosexuals are free to do what they want in their own homes.

Public homosexuals are not treated with death in Iran, sometimes they receive lashings or prison sentences. All countries have laws regarding public display of affection and public decency.

Even prostitution is legal in Iran once you allegedly make an informal and quick "temporary marriage", in that sense it's ahead of most western countries.

The death sentences are only for despicable things for which they are absolutely sure, like death sentences are given out in the united states sometimes. For a population of 75 million, they don't have very many executions and they have to keep control.

Yes out of the 10s of thousands, there might be one or two old, senile Islamofascist judges who gives out the death sentence over something stupid like adultery and throwing her veil off and shouting at the judge like the recent woman did. The death sentence like this type of situation is practically never actually gone through with.

Don't confuse Iran with a REALLY fascist state like China or North Korea, where they behead people on allegations all the time... Nigeria... where they are extremely oppressed by their government, and so on.

I would much rather go to Iran and feel much safer there than somewhere like South Africa, where a huge percentage of people have guns and the homocide rate is at a phenomenal level.

I disagree.

Iran has a very poor execution record. Particularly when it comes to kids. It has the highest execution rate of minors in the world. It accounts for two thirds of all executed children.

Apostasy(leaving Islam) is punishable by death. Hashem Aghajari, for example was condemned to death for apostasy for a speech urging Iranians to "not blindly follow" Islamic clerics

There are records of at least 107 executions with charges related to homosexuality between 1979 and 1990. In a November 2007 meeting with his British counterpart, Iranian MP Mohsen Yahyavi admitted that Iran believes in the death penalty for homosexuality. According to Yahyavi, gays deserve to be tortured, executed, or both.

One young woman was only 15 when she was arrested, too young for the punishment, however, officials intend to stone her to death now that she is older. She has been subjected to mock stonings and partial burial in preparation for the real one http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/02/iranian-woman-stoning-death-penalty

So I think your claim that "The death sentences are only for despicable things for which they are absolutely sure" is pure nonsense.

SuperInfinity

yekahs wrote: »

I disagree.

Iran has a very poor execution record. Particularly when it comes to kids. It has the highest execution rate of minors in the world. It accounts for two thirds of all executed children.

Apostasy(leaving Islam) is punishable by death. Hashem Aghajari, for example was condemned to death for apostasy for a speech urging Iranians to "not blindly follow" Islamic clerics

There are records of at least 107 executions with charges related to homosexuality between 1979 and 1990. In a November 2007 meeting with his British counterpart, Iranian MP Mohsen Yahyavi admitted that Iran believes in the death penalty for homosexuality. According to Yahyavi, gays deserve to be tortured, executed, or both.

One young woman was only 15 when she was arrested, too young for the punishment, however, officials intend to stone her to death now that she is older. She has been subjected to mock stonings and partial burial in preparation for the real one http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/02/iranian-woman-stoning-death-penalty

So I think your claim that "The death sentences are only for despicable things for which they are absolutely sure" is pure nonsense.

Well, it could be that the judge thinks that she did commit the murder of her husband. A spouse is often the person who does an act like that. You don't always hear the real story behind a lot of these things.

I'm not saying Iran is as open and just a country as western ones are, however it's not on a par with places like China, North Korea and Nigeria with human rights violations either. In a country of 75 million people without a proper police force, there has to be some form of control. Granted, the adultery death sentence is complete nonsense, but you have to look at each case and see how many are actually gone through with or how many were actually for things such as murder etc. I agree that it's a terrible country... but remember that the US is a terrible country as well sometimes.

Torakx

What happens now is Iran will be destabilized more than it was before.News will be starting to hit the west about the people of Iran protesting against the government.
This i would guess will be lead by CIA headed protest groups.
I have a suspicion alot of groups are infiltrated so that the right countries have the oppurtunity to invade.
Its all linked imo.For an idea of the result i guess Iraq and Afghanistan are good examples, especially Iraq with its evil dictator Saddam oppressing the people.
If anyone has seen that documentary that covered the economic hitmen,it would help show what i mean by the CIA causing unstability within countries before the US invaded.

About the culture and religion in Iran and other countries in the middle east.
I think that its possible they still adhere to the honour system.Which is more sophisticated than our legal system but also harsher imo.
Alot of families there learn that being honourable is important and preserving the honour of your family name.This alone is a form of control for keeping society on the more or less straight and narrow.Its an old system but it seems to have worked for a very long time until we(the west and its cultural/geopolitical influences) showed up.
For a new world order they just need to infiltrate economically and socially first to setup groups or take over groups and cause the country to destabilize in many ways.Then there is a percieved need for order and add the threat of what the americans have already done and many people will believe that the UN, USA could be justified with invading a foreign country.

nullzero

These things dont get raised here because it's not really CT material.
It's horrific yes and shouldn't happen, but it's not really a CT.
What it is however is a reminder of how crazy some places in the world are.
I suppose it's not a million years ago that we in Ireland (egged on by the Catholic church) had similar views towards women as in currently held in the Islamic world, especially those who follow Sharia law.

The most important thing is to stop this type of thing happening first and foremost, secondly it should serve as a reminder that religions in all forms are prisons for the mind, which lead people to do awful things in the name of "God". Some CT researchers seem to believe that religions especially set out to undermine and surpress the female, but thats another debate.

As for why Iran gets a pass on this behaviour? Well thats indicative of the fashionable brand of dissent that seems so common place today. Yes Isreal is a tyranical state that needs to be made to cease it's crimes against its neighbours, but that doesn't make all Islamic states pictures of moral virtue.
If you get you political world view from rock stars and start reading Noam Chomsky and treating him like some sort of demi god I'm sure you could be the type of person who would treat this behaviour as a cultural anomoly.
As much as I like bands like Radiohead, I have no interest in their pious self important political views "Read Chomsky, Carbon Dioxide is murdering the earth", what a load of claptrap. Designer dissent for the fvckwit majority.

You have to dispise all scumbags equally, you can't just go on the basis of, my enemies enemy is my friend. It just doesn't work that way and nothing at all can justify stoning somebody to death. If that's your culture there's something radically wrong with it, but we already knew that because it's based on a hardline prison religion to start with. How many more virgins does a Muslim man get in heaven after stoning an adultress to death? Allah be praised my arse. Time for these moron's to wake the fvck up, the same goes for all the other religious zealots of other faiths around the world.

SuperInfinity

I found this on the so-called execution of people just because they were homosexuals:

Human Rights Watch has stated "There is no evidence that this was a consensual act," and observed that "The bulk of evidence suggests that the youths were tried on allegations of raping a 13-year-old, with the suggestion that they were tried for consensual homosexual conduct seemingly based almost entirely on mistranslations and on cursory news reporting magnified by the Western press." [12] Human Rights Watch also stated that it was "deeply disturbed by the apparent indifference of many people to the alleged rape of a 13-year old." [12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Asgari_and_Ayaz_Marhoni

As for the minister that said that... he may also have been mistranslated or misunderstood. Does he even have any real power anyway? What matters are the facts of what occurs.

Again, not defending Iran for anything as I don't believe in the death penalty for anything. However I just think we should have another look before we say USA, Ireland = good (when often it's anything but, including the destruction of their own people and in the case of USA the overt massacre of thousands of civilians in other countries).... and then throw Iran in with China and North Korea and Nigeria and Zimbabwe.

steelcityblues

Iran, at least for the most part, does not pretend to be something that its not!

robtri

Iran never hide anything...

But why should we apply our morals and ethics on them???
what gives us that right.....

if you live in Iran you know the strict laws they have and the harsh punishments... if you cant do the time take the punishment dont do the crime
really simple...

Sparticle

robtri wrote: »

Iran never hide anything...

But why should we apply our morals and ethics on them???
what gives us that right.....

Moral relativism is bull****, honestly do you think their moral system is as advanced as ours?(Not saying ours is perfect) To paraphrase Sam Harris there are clearly good moralities and clearly bad moralities, There are advancements and regresses. Iran and the fundamentalist islamic world in general are one of those regresses. We(Western world) have the right to embargo and put pressure on Iran because of it's appalling human rights record and IMO we have the right to intervene forcibly if they start toting nukes around.

Bog Warrior

In relation to the recent history between US, Israel and Iran - Here is the Shah of Iran talking about Zionist media manipulation in the US back in the 70's.

And he is the guy the US put in place after overthrowing the peoples democratically elected prime minister.

Seems a very eloquent man though

SuperInfinity

Bog Warrior wrote: »

In relation to the recent history between US, Israel and Iran - Here is the Shah of Iran talking about Zionist media manipulation in the US back in the 70's.

And he is the guy the US put in place after overthrowing the peoples democratically elected prime minister.

Seems a very eloquent man though

Ahmadinejad is also democratically elected now. He has the clear support of the people of Iran, not all the people, that never happens (unless it's an extreme tyranny).

How about they go around the US asking people if they don't want Obama there and hate him and want him out? How many millions of people would they get? What if they took the tea-party rallys and said "look at these people, they want their fascist regime to come to an end", it's just a joke. And you don't have that in Iran, most people support Ahmadinejad despite all the western propaganda.

studiorat

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Ahmadinejad is also democratically elected now. He has the clear support of the people of Iran, not all the people, that never happens (unless it's an extreme tyranny).

Ahmadinejad's election is at the very least as suspect as George Bush's election, it's still contested by the opposition. Yet no one raises an eyebrow.

The regime harshly put down widespread street demonstrations against the disputed poll,sending in police and pro-government militia to beat-up and disperse protesters. Not a whimper...

The Iranian government constantly attempts to rescue it's legitimacy by blaming any unrest on the work of "foreign instigators". Sound familiar? Politics of fear?

The Iranian regime is every bit as "orwellian" as the US is made out to be yet nobody says a word.

I think someone (torax) hit the nail on the head earlier. People would rather support the "underdog" regardless of their behavior rather than be seen to "support" Israel or the US.

Torakx

Basically neither side is good or evil.But one is attempting to invade the other or it appears so with threats at the least.
So i chose the underdog who is surrounded on most sides.If the invaders would back out maybe they could bring a campaign to investigate the human rights issues.But i doubt that is their interest so i say feck off USA and come back when you have found yourself.

halkar

Think Iran is bad? Look at Saudi Arabia for comparision. Once finish compare US relations with Iran and Saudi Arabia.

studiorat

halkar wrote: »

Think Iran is bad? Look at Saudi Arabia for comparision. Once finish compare US relations with Iran and Saudi Arabia.

America and Iran were thick as thieves before the revolution. The US shared similar relationships with Iran as it does with Saudi now and from about the same time. So much so that they persuaded the Shah instigating the dissolving of the government in the 50's and setting up a dictatorship. The resentment against the US in Iran dates back to this time.

I don't think the US has quite the same influence on the House of Saud as it did in Iran.

bonkey

Guys...seriously...

This is not the Politics forum.

There hasn't been a suggestion of a conspiracy in this thread...neither in the OP, nor anywhere since.

If you want to discuss moral relativism or political history, then please do so in the appropriate forums.