Rear Wheel Drive - Am I Being Irrational

BESman

I'm thinking of buying a new motor but the two cars I'm particularly interested in (BMW or Lexus) are rear wheel drive and I am deathly afraid of buying one as a result. A friend of mine had a very bad accident in a rear wheel drive car and I'm cautious of them since. I know its irrational but I can't shake it.

Are rear wheel drive more difficult to drive and control than FWD? And are all Lexus IS200 and BMW 3 series rear wheel drive?

mike65

Rear wheel cars are grand, they have a lingering reputation bought about by people spinning Porches and old BMW 3 series on wet roundabouts and the like. These days posh cars have so many driver aids to modulate power I doubt it'll be an issue unless you switch the aids off and hammer the throttle in wet weather. Which is the sort of behaviour that deserves a crash frankly.

Mr Benevolent

OP, avoid the IS200 and get yourself a proper Lexus.

ltdslipdiff

Hi BESman, I'm afraid both these vehicles are RWD in all model variants ! Both will most likely be fitted with ASR/ESP/traction control to avoid unexpected rear-end tail happiness. The reason for the rear wheel drive layout is to improve balance and weight distribution giving a better handling and more driveable car. Indeed some enjoy the fluttery feeling of feeling the back-end work loose on a damp roundabout. I have a 2007 Lexus IS220d for the moment (Car Salesman) and find it a great drive. I did notice the back end giddy once or twice after some downpours but this was with some provocation admittedly. I think you learn to respect the nature of your power delivery more in a rear wheel drive car. If you're that concerned however, there are plenty of decent FWD cars out there!

dudara

If you're a regular normal driver, then you have nothing to fear from a rear-wheel drive car. I love the feel of the drive coming from the rear of the car - it's nicely different to front drive cars.

unkel

BESman wrote: »

are all Lexus IS200 and BMW 3 series rear wheel drive?

All BMWs and all Lexus are RWD

Owen

unkel wrote: »

All BMWs ... are RWD

For the moment! Project i - the city car - will be front driven, and most likely the next 1 Series will have a front wheel drive variant. Course, then there's the 4 wheel drives, and the MINI Countryman's all-drive system which is variable wheel drive depending on conditions and needs which will probably end up in a BMW at some point too.

Rowley Birkin QC

BESman wrote: »

RWD? Am I being irrational?

Yes.

sundodger5

Rear wheel drive is a different driving style. If you are used to front wheel drive it will feel odd. i would try to get as long a test drive in the vehicles you are interested in as possible.
The IS220d is tail happy despite the electronics. Dont know if the BMW is the same.

mike65

The only time I got caught out was when parked on wet grass, pulling away as the right rear wheel reached the tarmac I applied a bit more power but the left was still on the verge and I jinked the rear end in a slightly unpleasant fashion (just sheer surprise) and I didn't do it again. No driver aids on a 1990 car though!

slimjimmc

Just one small thing.. in winter, rear wheel drive cars a more likely to lose forward propulsion on ice especially going uphill, but on the upside, the fun you can have with power slides* tends to make up for it.


* (only to be performed in a safe and private area, of course ) .

Voodoomelon

Beyond irrational, completely illogical in a modern RWD car. With day to day driving you'll feel no difference in the slightest. And as a few have said, you couldn't spin the arse out even if you tried.

Vertakill

Yep, as everyones said, completely irrational.

My mother flies around in a 535D and despite her lead foot and the traction control light having a seizure, she's yet to spin out. In fact, she didn't even know what the blinking traction control light even was up until I mentioned it to her.

The IS200 doesn't really have enough power to get you into trouble when the aids are all on unless you actively go out and try and spin the car... and even then it'll be pretty uneventful.

E39MSport

b'tards on ice.

high heels

In a fwd if you skid you put the foot down in a rwd you lift off, only difference..

unkel

PaintDoctor wrote: »

For the moment! Project i - the city car - will be front driven, and most likely the next 1 Series will have a front wheel drive variant.

They're not BMWs though, just MINIs with a BMW badge

corktina

theres Rear Wheel Drive and theres Wrong Wheel Drive.... simples....no brainer.

high horse

OP, if you're that nervous about it maybe a course would help you

http://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/skid-control-course.html

I'm on my 2nd RWD car and yes, I've had the rear step out a few times but its controllable if you know what to do. My 1st RWD car was a BMW E30 so it had no driver aids to prevent oversteer. My current E46 has DSC and you would want to try pretty hard to get any oversteer

peasant

Well, you started it ...

corktina wrote: »

theres Rear Wheel Drive Wrong Wheel Drive and theres Wrong Wheel Drive.... simples....no brainer.

and then there's AWD

bbam

I know my sister changed to a RWD merc 2 years ago, they hate it. They reckon once you go from dry roads the back end needs minding.
As for performance in frost/snow they usually park it up and take out they're old Carisma..
They'd get shot in the morning if the value hadn't dropped like a rock..

On the other hand I grew up with RWD cars and if you really have your heard set on one then give it a go... maybe the course would help

djimi

RWD are much harder to drive in very wet/icy conditions. Last new years I was driving home in the snow and the big RWD cars were going nowhere whereas the FWD cars were able to crawl along and get where they were going.

From my experience of RWD you have to have your wits about you to be able to control them properly, but as has been said most will come with ample driving aids to ensure that you are safe.

you'll be fine, most folks who drive modern rwd cars dont even know they are rwd

Voodoomelon

To be, tyres should be of more concern than the drive of the car. You'll be no worse off than FWD cars except for maybe 10 days of the year when its really icey.

A decent set of €500-€600 tyres on a 17" rim and the car will be just as good in the wet as a FWD.

R.O.R

The IS200 and BMW 316i, 318i and even 320i don't have enough power to make the back end step out unless it's either icy or p1ssing it down - even of you try to provoke them :mad:

1948Wolseley

To be honest it's front wheel drive that I'm more wary of. I slid sideways off a speedbump and into a kerb in my FWD Maxima during the big freeze last winter. If I'd been in my old RWD Mercedes W124, a bootful of power would have saved the day, but with FWD, there was nothing I could do.

djimi

1948Wolseley wrote: »

To be honest it's front wheel drive that I'm more wary of. I slid sideways off a speedbump and into a kerb in my FWD Maxima during the big freeze last winter. If I'd been in my old RWD Mercedes W124, a bootful of power would have saved the day, but with FWD, there was nothing I could do.

Yes but the other way to look at is if you were driving your RWD then the rear wheels could have given way as you went over the bump and you could have lost the arse of the car. Im not knocking RWD cars but FWD cars are a lot less risky in terms of this kind of thing.

corktina

Race cars? top of the pile F1, all RWD
Rally cars? if they aint AWD:rolleyes: then Mk1 or 2 Escort (for example) RWD
Road Cars? BMW, ulitmate driving machine....RWD
Dublin Bus ? RWD
HGV? RWD
Our Lawn mower? RWD
Iarnrod Eirean Intercity form Cork? RWD (slight flaw in this arguement...hope you dont spot it....)

White_Wolf

Get an AE86 Corrolla, Go sideways.

slimjimmc

FWD cars have a lot more weight sitting over the drive wheels and that helps improve grip, which is why FWD is best in low grip conditions. RWD can let go quicker because there's less weight to keep the tyres stuck to the road.

When under power, FWD tends to undesteer whereas RWD tends to oversteer. For the majority of drivers understeer is the safest option (less surprises) but for driving purists RWD can give improved cornering, though t.b.h. I doubt if you'd notice any difference on your daily commute.

Also with RWD you don't get torque steer since the half-shafts are of equal length. In FWD one drive shaft is shorter to accomodate the gearbox and that tends to pull the car slightly to one side under hard acceleration.

slimjimmc

corktina wrote: »

Race cars? top of the pile F1, all RWD
Rally cars? if they aint AWD:rolleyes: then Mk1 or 2 Escort (for example) RWD
Road Cars? BMW, ulitmate driving machine....RWD
Dublin Bus ? RWD
HGV? RWD
Our Lawn mower? RWD
Iarnrod Eirean Intercity form Cork? RWD (slight flaw in this arguement...hope you dont spot it....)

Would that be because each railcar is self propelled with its own engine and transmission so in effect it's front, back and middle wheel drive .

corktina

no

mondeo

My old 93' Bmw 520i was a great car in the dry, amusing in the wet and useless in the ice.. Experimented with differant tyres on the rear for stability. Always put premiums on the back end such as Bridgestones and cheaper Continenatals up front. Miss that car

kazul

1948Wolseley wrote: »

To be honest it's front wheel drive that I'm more wary of. I slid sideways off a speedbump and into a kerb in my FWD Maxima during the big freeze last winter. If I'd been in my old RWD Mercedes W124, a bootful of power would have saved the day, but with FWD, there was nothing I could do.

A bootful of power? Did you have an extra engine in the boot?
Maximas are around 140 bhp minimum and are very well behaved on ice.
In the scenario you described I doubt if RWD would have made a blind bit of difference.

copacetic

mike65 wrote: »

Rear wheel cars are grand, they have a lingering reputation bought about by people spinning Porches and old BMW 3 series on wet roundabouts and the like. These days posh cars have so many driver aids to modulate power I doubt it'll be an issue unless you switch the aids off and hammer the throttle in wet weather. Which is the sort of behaviour that deserves a crash frankly.

Some people still don't like the feeling of twitchyness you get in a rwd car in the wet. Certainly wet roundabouts still have to be watched out for, the car will recover for you but only after it already feels like you have lost control. Of course a lof ot people love that feeling and spend their time trying to create it!

I'd not say that is an real issue though, the main one is icy/snowy conditions with summer tyres. Certainly they are trickier to keep going in such conditions and can get bogged down easily on any kind of bump or hill if you have to stop for any reason.

Conor_M1990

You'll be grand there both slow cars

Richie_c

You'll be grand both cars come with plently of driver aids these days. Its the cars with no driver aids that you'd have to wary of - however, these are the most fun!

Esel

high heels wrote: »

In a fwd if you skid you put the foot down in a rwd you lift off, only difference..

Ah right, Ted. Not.

slimjimmc wrote: »

Would that be because each railcar is self propelled with its own engine and transmission so in effect it's front, back and middle wheel drive .

Do you issue a newsletter?

slimjimmc

Nope no newsletter, but I'll accept cash subscriptions anyways.:D

OP, go for either car if you want, both are lovely cars and there's nothing wrong or dangerous about RWD.
The most dangerous aspect of any car is the yoke that sits on the front seat working the steering and pedals.

iphone4g

Lads,if the back end of a RWD car steps out and you didn't want it to you need to learn how to drive,The only reason you should be caught off guard is with on oil/diesel spill,all other times you should drive to suit weather conditions.
It's not as if you have 700 bhp under the hood!!!

dr.fuzzenstein

So far had two W123 Mercs, a Mk III Cortina, a VW Transporter (the 80's with the engine in the back) and the GF's MX5.
All RWD, never a problem, unless you're trying to go up a snowy hill. Get chains, you'll be grand.
As stated earlier, unless you have 100's of bhp and a leadfoot it's never a problem otherwise.
Also it's much more fun to pull out onto a main road in a hurry/sideways when you see the Micra with 2 miles of traffic behind it approaching and you have just .015 seconds to get out ahead of it.
FWD would just spin and go nowhere.
Also like the feeling of being pushed in the back, rather than being pulled along by my nose.
Having said that FWD has improved with better suspension/diffs, driver aides and fatter tires.
Used to have a 1.8 liter Subaru with optional 4WD but by default it was FWD, pulling away from lights was nothing but wheel spin.

JHMEG

RWD is great if you're buying a car for it, and know what to do with it.

If you don't and you're buying a newer RWD car it'll probably have so many driver aids that you're not really in control anyway, so it won't really matter, or if you're buying an older car and are worried about 180s then stick to FWD or AWD.

irishmotorist

BESman wrote: »

I'm thinking of buying a new motor but the two cars I'm particularly interested in (BMW or Lexus) are rear wheel drive and I am deathly afraid of buying one as a result. A friend of mine had a very bad accident in a rear wheel drive car and I'm cautious of them since. I know its irrational but I can't shake it.

Are rear wheel drive more difficult to drive and control than FWD? And are all Lexus IS200 and BMW 3 series rear wheel drive?

Look, it's not the car you have to be worried about, it's your own driving. Bigger engine means more poke. RWD means poke at the back. I went from a bog standard Golf to a 320d and as other posters have mentioned, found roundabouts entertaining. Nothing like I'd experienced before. Then I got new rear tyres and have had NO 'entertaining' at roundabouts since. The old tyres were quite badly worn and I hadn't noticed. My bad!

Now that I have new and properly threaded tyres on, the car behaves better through turns etc. than a FWD. No understeer (which I was used to) and no back-slipping-out (because of decent tyres).

You can go mad if you want, but that's you - not the car.

irishmotorist

Sorry - forgot to mention the probs in the snow. Starting across a very slightly uphill junction (I'm talking 2 degrees!) was brutal. FWD is better here because, I think, the weight of the engine is on top of the drive wheels which will give you a better chance of traction when there's none (or a tiny amount).

That's the only negative and it's the only real problem I've had with RWD in 3 years. We've only had snow once in the last 3 years too. Unless you're driving to Scandanavia, I don't think it's an issue.

Elbow

http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com/2009/02/great-debate-fwd-or-rwd-which-is-better.html


IMO you've nothing 2 worry about unless your going for a 250+ BHP model (without having some experience) but saying that with all the electronics in the cars your thinking of getting there shouldn't be a problem regardless.

Reesy

My RWD MX5 is a feckin' brilliant car, the best I've owned by miles, but in the rain the back end can break away, & in the snow & ice, it's much worse. Which can be fun!

Hal1

I'm yet to own a rwd car, stuck with fwd for now .

Gitb1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So far had two W123 Mercs, a Mk III Cortina, a VW Transporter (the 80's with the engine in the back) and the GF's MX5.
All RWD, never a problem, unless you're trying to go up a snowy hill. Get chains, you'll be grand.
As stated earlier, unless you have 100's of bhp and a leadfoot it's never a problem otherwise.
Also it's much more fun to pull out onto a main road in a hurry/sideways when you see the Micra with 2 miles of traffic behind it approaching and you have just .015 seconds to get out ahead of it.
FWD would just spin and go nowhere.
Also like the feeling of being pushed in the back, rather than being pulled along by my nose.
Having said that FWD has improved with better suspension/diffs, driver aides and fatter tires.
Used to have a 1.8 liter Subaru with optional 4WD but by default it was FWD, pulling away from lights was nothing but wheel spin.

Wouldnt less weight over the driven wheels make rwd more inclined to spin though?

challengemaster

Would I be right in thinking that at some stage, ALL cars were RWD? With no driver aids, either...

Unless the car is super tail happy (the is200 certainly isnt - mate of mine has one, seriously pushed it going around a bend trying with TC off to make it step out, and it didn't...) it's not going to go anywhere unless you're really trying to. Obviously, if you drop to 1st and floor it going around a corner.. but taking things easy and not driving like a ponce, you should be grand.

The IS200 also has a "snow" button on it beside the Traction control one, cuts the throttle back a good bit, handy for saving petrol too aparently

White_Wolf

Gitb1 wrote: »

Wouldnt less weight over the driven wheels make rwd more inclined to spin though?

Yes and since the power comes from the back as well.

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

The IS200 and BMW 316i, 318i and even 320i don't have enough power to make the back end step out unless it's either icy or p1ssing it down - even of you try to provoke them :mad:

Or if you have 60psi in the rear tires !

Gitb1 wrote: »

Wouldnt less weight over the driven wheels make rwd more inclined to spin though?

not in normal powered yokes in the dry, nice long drive train takes the bite out at low revs so they grip well enough. My 150 bhp 520i puts the power down without any wheel spin in the dry, any fwd car i have driven is too easy to get wheel spin at take off in.

SpannerMonkey

i have owned 9 cars and all but one have been RWD , i personally prefer RWD and absolutely hated a FWD Audi i had, its as simple as this

if your not a lunatic in a car and your not a cheapskate when it comes to putting tyres on it you will never have a problem (except in snow)

but you need to buy decent brand name tyres none of that crap korean stuff like sunny or triangle , if you put them on a RWD you will find out the meaning of oversteer very quickly

definately get a RWD you will not look back;)

and go with bmw , lexus are good looking but crap to drive