Nama developer Gannon gets local area plan approval for Swords project

PWEI

As if Swords isn't built up enough,Fingal have now given the go ahead for 3400 new homes.I'd love to know how they actually plan to fill these homes.



The Irish Times - Wednesday, July 14, 2010

Fingal Co Council has given the go-ahead for development of 3,400 homes in a new neighbourhood planned for 270 acres between Swords and Ashbourne, writes JACK FAGAN

THE NORTH county Dublin town of Swords is to get a substantial new neighbourhood following a decision by Fingal County Council to approve a local area plan for 270 acres along the link road between Swords and Ashbourne.

The site is 4km (2.4 miles) from Swords and will eventually have a population of about 10,000.

Members of Fingal County Council decided by 17 votes to six to accept the local area plan for the Oldtown/Mooretown area, which will open the way for the development of 3,400 family homes, a local shopping centre, a regional park and other infrastructural facilities.

The enclave will also have three or four primary schools, as well as a secondary school. The decision to proceed with the development has been welcomed by Gannon Developments, which has owned most of the land for 12 to 14 years.

Architects Conroy Crowe Kelly are to lodge a planning application in October or November for the first phase of the housing scheme.

Approval of the local area plan will allow Gannon to develop 2,800 family homes as well as a 2,500sq m (26,910sq ft) shopping complex.

Bank loans given to Gannon Developments, including those for the Swords lands, were recently transferred to Nama. Contacted yesterday, Gerry Gannon, the head of the company, said the adoption of the local area plan for its landholdings in Swords was “a good decision for me and a good decision for Nama”.

Pamela Gill of Conroy Crowe Kelly said the master plan for the new neighbourhood would be based on the key principles of good design, high quality public facilities, ease of movement and diversity.

Oldtown and Mooretown would be distinct character areas focused on natural features such as the archaeological parks or on one of two new neighbourhood centres. One of the hubs will include the schools, a community hall and shopping facilities.

Gannon is planning to provide a wide mix of house sizes to accommodate people at all stages of their lives, with the emphasis on the provision of two, three and four-bedroom family-oriented homes.

The development company is handing over 75 acres for a regional park planned for the northwest corner of Oldtown. There are also plans to enhance Rathbeale Archaeological Park, which was rediscovered in 2003 when ancient skeletal remains were uncovered.

Extensive archaeological work and historical evidence has confirmed that a circular complex was laid out after the 7th century and remained in use for a considerable time. The site is known locally as “the bone field”.

Eoineo

Oh good, another planning objection for me to make. :rolleyes:

The Hill Billy

Sweet Jebus! Do these people never learn? :mad:
Who the hell is going to buy them?

dsmythy

People looking to live closer to Dublin may be interested.

Paulw

If they're built right and priced right, it might be a good idea. Too many properties are over priced and of poor enough construction. The fact that there are schools and other amenities involved might be a good attraction too, and badly needed.

Larianne

Hurrah! More traffic for the Rathbeale Road.

Honestly!? I go by Holy Well on the 41X in the morning and there is so many houses/apartments empty.

:mad:

TheBlock

I walk through Holywell most mornings fro the 41x and I dodn't notice many empties. A couple for sale but thats not unusual.

meditraitor

TheBlock wrote: »

I walk through Holywell most mornings fro the 41x and I dodn't notice many empties. A couple for sale but thats not unusual.

Drive through it at night, a shed load of unlit premises.....

drBill

Madness! Does anybody seriously believe there are 3400 families looking to buy a house in Swords at the moment? Are the Irish capable of doing anything except building houses and bloody shopping centres?

Eoineo

Sorry I also meant to say. If he gets community facilities in his original grant of planning permission he will never build them.

There is an estate in North Dublin where he had a grant for this. He built the estate; it took another 5 years from when it was constructed for the Council to take it in charge as items were left uncompleted. There are still items remaining to be done which are only coming to light years after it was taken in charge.

The community facility land was sold a year before the planning permission expired. It was bought by a creche chain, they were granted a change of use and now this space which was intended for community use is operated by a commercial outfit.

I wouldn't trust this developer as far as I could throw them.

meditraitor

Eoineo wrote: »

Sorry I also meant to say. If he gets community facilities in his original grant of planning permission he will never build them.

There is an estate in North Dublin where he had a grant for this. He built the estate; it took another 5 years from when it was constructed for the Council to take it in charge as items were left uncompleted. There are still items remaining to be done which are only coming to light years after it was taken in charge.

The community facility land was sold a year before the planning permission expired. It was bought by a creche chain, they were granted a change of use and now this space which was intended for community use is operated by a commercial outfit.

I wouldn't trust this developer as far as I could throw them.

The blame for this can be firmly planted at the feet of planning authority and Fingal CC,

A lack of oversight and negligence.

Eoineo

I do agree with you to some extent. We have reached a point completing developments to a grant of planning permission is the responsibility of the Local Authority (in this case FCC) and not that of the developer in the first place. Personally I believe that the blame should be equally held.

Either way I feel that the combination of the 2 has led to a disaster in at least 1 area in North Dublin and it's likely it will happen again in the future.

clunked

Maybe Gannon will throw in a free season ticket for Sporting Fingal with each new house!! By then they'll be surely a powerhouse of European soccer!

rubberdiddies

does anyone know what the 'real' story is behind this link between Gannon and FCC with the granting of permission to build a major town within a town?

surely FCC cant be serious about this, and if they are, why? Ok we know they need the levies, but we also know it will take a miracle to sell even 20% of the proposed units.

Can any of the councillors who freqent this board perhaps shed some light on this bizzare decision?

Alan Farrell

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Can any of the councillors who freqent this board perhaps shed some light on this bizzare decision?

While I wasn't able to be present for the vote on this LAP, people need to understand that an LAP has a seven year shelf life without planning permission and when planning permission is sought, the lifespan of the permission lasts for five years. Therefore, the chances of this area being developed in the short term are very very slim.

I suppose what I am suggesting is that just because we are in a recession, planning for the future doesn't stop. I assure you that demand for housing still exists in Swords and that while prices may have plummeted, people are still waiting for the right property at the right price.

ragg

Why weren't you there?
What way would you have voted?
What conditions on traffic management have been imposed?
Do you think this is an example of the cute hoor politics Ms Creighton was talking about?

Alan Farrell

ragg wrote: »

Why weren't you there?
What way would you have voted?
What conditions on traffic management have been imposed?
Do you think this is an example of the cute hoor politics Ms Creighton was talking about?

What is an example of "cute Whore" politics?

ragg

Well, I hope i'm proven wrong here, but this is how this situation seems to me.

Gannon purchases land knowing that it is prime for development, due to the imminent arrival of metro north.
Metro north gets funding approved in principle.
Gannon get planning permission approved.

This seems to be a very large scale development, in an area that lacks a lot of the basic infrastructure to support such a large scale development.

In fairness its the classic tale that has been happening over fingal, one which we were assured wouldn't happen after the recent local elections. Alas, it seems to be the same old story.

I mean, IKEA want to open a shop and they are made build a motor way entry and jump through a million and one hoops.
Gannon wants to destroy the character of a couple of villages, profiteer from tax payers investments, and it seems he won't even be made paid for the basic infrastructure to support said development.

If i am wrong, please show me what infrastructure projects will be tied to development. In other countries he would be made to upgrade roads,build a school house and other basic items that will make the area a better place to live for the current citizens

rubberdiddies

the dogs on the street know that we dont have sufficient infrastructure to support this monstrous development.

I understand there is a distributor road between swords manor and applewood area (could be wrong on the exact location) but there is nothing planned for the exit from this new 'town' out of swords and onto the M1. Its busy enough as it is there.

My concern (as well as the concern of why FCC continuously grant permission to Mr. Gannon to built eyesores) is that as always FCC dont plan for the future. Yes the LAP is planning for the future, but where is the bit on connection to the M1, where is the study that shows once built there will be sufficient water (there isnt sufficient water as it is for Fingal), where is the public transport study (dont mention the Metro as it doesnt exist yet and goes nowhere near the proposed units). Is there a traffic management plan?

I'd love to see evidence of demand for housing in Swords, specifically the report that shows demand for 3000 new homes? Is this report available to the public?

Other local authorities are finally seeing sense and dezoning land, but FCC are ploughing ahead and only seem to see $$$$$ signs with no regard to the impact on the area.

If someone can prove me wrong, please do.

Alan Farrell

ragg wrote: »

Well, I hope i'm proven wrong here, but this is how this situation seems to me.

Gannon purchases land knowing that it is prime for development, due to the imminent arrival of metro north.
Metro north gets funding approved in principle.
Gannon get planning permission approved.

I understand that the land owner purchased these lands almost a decade ago and were zoned for development in 2004 (before the local elections of that year).

Swords has been earmarked as a growth town since 2002. To suggest that there is something inherently wrong with purchasing land because "it is prime for development" is plain wrong.

Metro North's routing around Swords was not decided upon until 2007 (from my recollection).

Gannon did not get planning permission at a recent council meeting. The Oldtown/Mooretown lands have been zoned for residential use since 2004 and a specific set of zoning criteria have now put placed upon the lands.

In order to develop these lands, a planning application must be submitted to the planning authority.

ragg wrote: »

This seems to be a very large scale development, in an area that lacks a lot of the basic infrastructure to support such a large scale development.

That is the purpose of an Local Area Plan that passes through the council chamber. We get to decide what gets delivered in the context of phased development.

I have a 50 page document in front of me detailing infrastructural improvements as part of the process, all of which are in the public demesne.

Have you read what the Local Area Plan for Oldtown/Mooretown will deliver?

ragg wrote: »

If i am wrong, please show me what infrastructure projects will be tied to development. In other countries he would be made to upgrade roads,build a school house and other basic items that will make the area a better place to live for the current citizens

With the exception of schools (which has never been a Council service nor should it be delivered by anyone other than the department of Education) (The Council earmark sites only, its up to the Department to build the schools) there are considerable infrastructural improvements to the River Valley area should this Local Area Plan (LAP) get planning permission.

All of the information is available at www.fingalcoco.ie/planning and you can even get copies of the physical plan by dropping into County Hall before 430 Monday to Friday.

Regardless of whom you ask or what version of the story you get from each Councillor or planner. Labour & the Socialists control Fingal County Council and can decide what LAP's get approved.

To answer your earlier question ragg. I was not present because I had a family matter to attend to. I knew I would not be present several weeks in advance and did not form an opinion on this LAP as a result. My vote on the Fosterstown LAP in June may give you some indication of my general perception of development in southern Swords. The traffic management/transportation infrastructure section of the report is available to read at the Council website, listed above.

You haven't answered my question.

What is "cute hoor" politics?

ragg

To suggest that there is something inherently wrong with purchasing land because "it is prime for development" is plain wrong.

You're starting to sound like Bertie now..

Metro North's routing around Swords was not decided upon until 2007

Maybe i'm a cynic, but im not buying that this wasn't talked about at golf meeting or tents at horse racing with a drink in one hand a cigar in another and donation to the party on the table. think its a fair assumption to say that these people are too pally with the government in this country. Cute hoorism...

I would love to see what "will" be delivered, but i won't waste my time reading it, because its all pie in the sky. I know the area well, I will hate to see it destroyed and it will be.
Look at the expansion of lusk and all the broken promises to the people there?

I'm being honest with you Alan, the next G.E., whoever runs on with a mandate that will take the planning off tin pot local authorities, will get my vote.

Alan Farrell

ragg wrote: »

You're starting to sound like Bertie now..

I'm insulted to be compared with a (alleged) crook but I don't sign up to the failed ideology that you can't make a profit from hard work in this world.

ragg wrote: »

Maybe i'm a cynic, but im not buying that this wasn't talked about at golf meeting or tents at horse racing with a drink in one hand a cigar in another and donation to the party on the table. think its a fair assumption to say that these people are too pally with the government in this country. Cute hoorism...

Thank you for your definition. Personally, I have not set foot in a tent since my childhood and I don't care for cigars.

ragg wrote: »

I would love to see what "will" be delivered, but i won't waste my time reading it, because its all pie in the sky. I know the area well, I will hate to see it destroyed and it will be.
Look at the expansion of lusk and all the broken promises to the people there?

I don't wish to be offensive ragg but please, whatever you do, don't be yet another person who shouts at the system and does nothing about it. If you are not informed about what's going on in your area, how am I to honour your requests of me?

If people don't know what they are talking about, how can I be sure that the advise of a senior, qualified planner is trumped by your local knowledge?

The "cute hoors" your referred to in your previous posts rely upon the fact that the public don't read LAP's, don't bother reading planning application notices and don't engage with the system. And that's why we live in an unequal society with bad planning, poor infrastructure and no accountability at the top.

The Hill Billy

ragg wrote: »

You're starting to sound like Bertie now..

ragg - Attack the post, not the poster. Personal insults are not acceptable.

HB

ragg

Hill Billy wrote: »

ragg - Attack the post, not the poster. Personal insults are not acceptable.

HB

was only comparing a politician to a former taoiseach... :pac:

The Hill Billy

Which is highly insulting to any politician these days & not in the least bit funny. Back on topic please.

HB

ragg

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I'm insulted to be compared with a (alleged) crook but I don't sign up to the failed ideology that you can't make a profit from hard work in this world.

I don't think anyone here does... I'm concerened if im honest, and "I don't wish to be offensive Alan " but isn't gannon a major investor in sporting fingal?

The "cute hoors" your referred to in your previous posts rely upon the fact that the public don't read LAP's, don't bother reading planning application notices and don't engage with the system. And that's why we live in an unequal society with bad planning, poor infrastructure and no accountability at the top.

Eoineo

In fairness to Alan; a LAP is just that. It's not a grant of PP & "Joe Public" is entitled to object to any application for planning.

If/when Mr Gannon or any other developer does apply for planning you are free to object. Providing you can come up with a valid argument or reason why the proposed development shouldn't go ahead then you should realistically be able to prevent it.

I couldn't agree more about being a person who shouts at the system and who does nothing about it. This is not a nanny state (despite peoples' beliefs and efforts), we do have a say in what happens in our areas and communities.

The LAP has now been passed. If you are so bent on objecting to any application for planning permission in the area then my advice to you is to do the following:

1. Review the existing services/facilities in the area. Find out what is lacking and what could be improved upon.

2. Review the infrastructure in the area. As above.

3. Speak to qualified experts who are prepared to go on the record about your area. Include historians, environmentalists etc etc.

4. Compile a knowledge base which can be added to and use this as a tool when you get to a point where an objection to planning is necessary.

5. Monitor the weekly planning lists in Fingal County Council. Familiarise yourself with successful objections and the structure of submitting one.

6. Make sure you have the funds to make an objection. Currently the objection fee is approximately €30 I believe.

7. Lobby your local representatives to get their support for any objection and/or specific conditions that should be placed on any planning permission as granted.

Best of luck.

dan_d

Eoineo wrote: »

In fairness to Alan; a LAP is just that. It's not a grant of PP & "Joe Public" is entitled to object to any application for planning.

If/when Mr Gannon or any other developer does apply for planning you are free to object. Providing you can come up with a valid argument or reason why the proposed development shouldn't go ahead then you should realistically be able to prevent it.

I couldn't agree more about being a person who shouts at the system and who does nothing about it. This is not a nanny state (despite peoples' beliefs and efforts), we do have a say in what happens in our areas and communities.

The LAP has now been passed. If you are so bent on objecting to any application for planning permission in the area then my advice to you is to do the following:

1. Review the existing services/facilities in the area. Find out what is lacking and what could be improved upon.

2. Review the infrastructure in the area. As above.

3. Speak to qualified experts who are prepared to go on the record about your area. Include historians, environmentalists etc etc.

4. Compile a knowledge base which can be added to and use this as a tool when you get to a point where an objection to planning is necessary.

5. Monitor the weekly planning lists in Fingal County Council. Familiarise yourself with successful objections and the structure of submitting one.

6. Make sure you have the funds to make an objection. Currently the objection fee is approximately €30 I believe.

7. Lobby your local representatives to get their support for any objection and/or specific conditions that should be placed on any planning permission as granted.

Best of luck.

Excellent advice.

Furthermore, what Alan Farrell is saying is correct. There was recently a serious uprising in Rush (there's a thread here somewhere) over Eirgrid's work to construct a new interconnector. People are entitled to have their concerns and questions, but Eirgrid held an open information weekend sometime in 08 with all information available on what they were doing and why, to everybody. Suddenly realising that construction will begin in 6 weeks, and you're not happy with it so you start screaming is not productive. In that case, 18 months ago was the time to start screaming...currently arguments being made are founded on little or no knowledge of what is taking place.

Anyway setting Rush aside here, as it's been dicussed elsewhere before, I still do not understand how Gannon homes got this permission. Swords may be earmarked as a development area, but at this stage surely it has developed enough. I will look at these plans also before making any major statements on them, but I do have a question. The council earmarks lands for the schools, and the Dept of Education build them....however I believe there should be a time limit placed on the Dept of Education to construct the schools. Let's face it, Gannon is really only interested in building houses and making a profit. He'll keep going regardless of what services are built by anyone else. Therefore, surely the onus should be on the Council to ensure that the Dept of Education have built at least one school by the time Gannon has sold at least X number of houses? And to ensure that, surely he should be stopped from building any more than this X number, until the school is constructed? To my mind, that way the responsibility comes on all parties involved to ensure a well-rounded and catered for development is built, and not just 1000 houses randomly in a field with wild patches here and there marked for for "future development".

Again, I'll have to look at the plans properly but I only hope that the roads in the area will be upgraded PRIOR to the construction of the houses.(slim hope, I would imagine).

My final thought on the subject is....where on earth is getting the money for the development from???

rubberdiddies

is there a document available (besides the LAP) that shows/proves that swords needs housing for 10,000 people?

I'm genuinely interested in seeing this document

Alan, forgive me for being cynical but we've been led down the garden path so many times before with corruption (one of the biggest ones involving a North County dublin politician), massive amounts of land rezoning in the area some of which were investigated by the Flood/Mahon tribunal, bad planning and insufficient infrastructure.

The man in question is supposedly one of the anglo Golden circle which itself is supposedly under investigation by the fraud Squad.
He has supposedly recently transferred a large number of his properties into his wifes name.....nothing wrong with that at all, but possibly safeguarding some of his money from the inevitable 'bankruptcy'??

At the end of the day people dont trust politicians and developers for obvious reasons. That is just how people feel and it will take many years/decades to overcome this.

Again though if it can be proven and shown to me that swords needs to increase in population by 10,000 then I may stand corrected.

Members of Fingal County Council decided by 17 votes to six to accept the local area plan for the Oldtown/Mooretown area, which will open the way for the development of 3,400 family homes, a local shopping centre, a regional park and other infrastructural facilities.

Is the list of voters and how they voted available online?

Alan Farrell

ragg wrote: »

I don't think anyone here does... I'm concerened if im honest, and "I don't wish to be offensive Alan " but isn't gannon a major investor in sporting fingal?

I'm not insulted by a factual statement. Yes, he is a major investor in the club but why is that relevant to this debate?

dan_d wrote: »

The council earmarks lands for the schools, and the Dept of Education build them....however I believe there should be a time limit placed on the Dept of Education to construct the schools. Let's face it, Gannon is really only interested in building houses and making a profit. He'll keep going regardless of what services are built by anyone else. Therefore, surely the onus should be on the Council to ensure that the Dept of Education have built at least one school by the time Gannon has sold at least X number of houses? And to ensure that, surely he should be stopped from building any more than this X number, until the school is constructed? To my mind, that way the responsibility comes on all parties involved to ensure a well-rounded and catered for development is built, and not just 1000 houses randomly in a field with wild patches here and there marked for for "future development".

I agree with you completely on this matter. Provision of schools is a disaster, but not just in Fingal. The issues that we face as a result of the horrific planning by the Department of Education in Templemore are dreadful and are portrayed in the public demesne as a failure of local government, a label I have always believed to be terribly unfair. If the department of Education gave us a budget to build schools, we'd have them already.

In the interim, we can only plan for them. Its up to the department to actually come and build them.

There is a report available with the LAP which details when schools will be built (roughly) and where they will be located. This will be online very shortly.

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Alan, forgive me for being cynical but we've been led down the garden path so many times before

Of course we have and that's why its even more important than ever that we engage with the planning system as I and others have outlined above.

I should point out that I got involved in local government because of what I perceived to be bad planning in Malahide.

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Is the list of voters and how they voted available online?

Yes, but not just yet. Minutes of meetings are posted online http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/meeting_details.aspx?id=136 here but not until they are confirmed as a true and accurate record of the meeting. As the July meeting (when this LAP took place) was the last meeting before the summer break, the minutes won't be put online until mid September.

You can watch the meeting as it unfolded online by going to the following link http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/site/. Then go to Full Council meeting of July 12th 2010 and then go to 2 hours 34 minutes and 45 seconds when the role call vote commences.

dan_d

As an aside, I've noticed Knockdroim House and surrounding lands, on the road from Rush to Lusk, is up for sale in the last day or so. There's a big sign at the gates which lead off the road to it.

Apparently it's owned by Gannon aswell. There's an amendment to the local plan online from 2009....to have it rezoned and apartments built there.

And it's suddenly up for sale...

Odd.

ragg

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I'm not insulted by a factual statement. Yes, he is a major investor in the club but why is that relevant to this debate?

Well, you seem to be very in favour of this development and I'd like to know on the record what kind of relationship you have with Mr Gannon.

Its not a slight on you, I've no doubt you are a very honourable person. However, given all thats gone on lately, i'd like to see a definitive statement on this..

Alan Farrell

ragg wrote: »

Well, you seem to be very in favour of this development and I'd like to know on the record what kind of relationship you have with Mr Gannon.

Its not a slight on you, I've no doubt you are a very honourable person. However, given all thats gone on lately, i'd like to see a definitive statement on this..

Are you reading the same thread that I am?

How did you get from my comments on this matter that I am in favour of "this development". My statement, "did not form an opinion on this LAP" is fairly clear and unambiguous.

Its a very big slight on me Ragg even if you dress it up to which I should probably not respond to but if it helps, I don't know him at all. Considering that you are an anonymous poster on an anonymous website, that's about as many questions from you that I am prepared to answer.

I should remind you that this isn't relevant to the discussion either.

ragg

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Are you reading the same thread that I am?

How did you get from my comments on this matter that I am in favour of "this development". My statement, "did not form an opinion on this LAP" is fairly clear and unambiguous.

Its a very big slight on me Ragg even if you dress it up to which I should probably not respond to but if it helps, I don't know him at all. Considering that you are an anonymous poster on an anonymous website, that's about as many questions from you that I am prepared to answer.

I should remind you that this isn't relevant to the discussion either.

I think its quite important to the discussion.I'm open to corretion here, but don't FCC and Mr Gannon fund Sporting fingal? Like I said, there seems to be, at the very least, financial links between too many parties, all above board im sure. However, im not comfortable with whats going on.

I respect your right not to reply, as im sure you can respect my scepticism.

LeoB

dan_d wrote: »

Excellent advice.
There was recently a serious uprising in Rush (there's a thread here somewhere) over Eirgrid's work to construct a new interconnector. People are entitled to have their concerns and questions, but Eirgrid held an open information weekend sometime in 08 with all information available on what they were doing and why, to everybody. Suddenly realising that construction will begin in 6 weeks, and you're not happy with it so you start screaming is not productive. In that case, 18 months ago was the time to start screaming...currently arguments being made are founded on little or no knowledge of what is taking place.
QUOTE]

Thats a bit unfair in my opinion. People were not properly informed, They (Eirgrid) put up a little poster and most people DIDNT know there was a public meeting. Eirgrid despite denials are bullying their way around. Just my opinion.

I think if I read things correctly there will be a big need for houses and Fingal will be under severe pressure to provide them. I do wonder how many of these homes will be for the council? It is vital though that if we have learned anything from the past we must have roads, schools and open space ready when first residents move in.

Mr. Gannon in fairness has put substantial money in to most sports around Fingal. As far as I know he was mixed up with F.A.I when he got involved with Sporting Fingal.

I am not a soccer fan nor do I know Mr. Gannon

Eoineo

I'm not sure if everyone has got the message on what exactly is going on here though.

It's not a "development", there has been no grant of planning permission. It's a specific "Local Area Plan" which means zilch to Gannon Homes or any other developer unless they get planning permission granted.

I don't understand the whole "conspiracy theory"?

Frank Spencer

Just one thing worth noting here is that Alan F doesn't have to come on here and engage the users. He is doing it of his own free will and although it may be beneficial to him by raising his profile etc. it isn't necessary to throw some of the barbs that have been thrown at him. I do not know Alan nor am I a Fine Gael voter but kudos must be given to him for his willingness to interact and answer users question on this forum and I for one wouldn't like to see him discontinue posting. (Although I'm sure he's dealt with worse!)

Beasty

OK - last warning on this thread - no more getting personal, and no more off-topic posts, or infractions/bans will be forthcoming.

Beasty

Alan Farrell

Frank Spencer wrote: »

Just one thing worth noting here is that Alan F doesn't have to come on here and engage the users. He is doing it of his own free will and although it may be beneficial to him by raising his profile etc. it isn't necessary to throw some of the barbs that have been thrown at him. I do not know Alan nor am I a Fine Gael voter but kudos must be given to him for his willingness to interact and answer users question on this forum and I for one wouldn't like to see him discontinue posting. (Although I'm sure he's dealt with worse!)

Thank you for that.

I genuinely am not here for kudos, I'm just a firm believer in social media and if one post in 100 is useful to someone, then that makes it all the easier to put up with unfair remarks from some.

rubberdiddies

LeoB wrote: »

I think if I read things correctly there will be a big need for houses and Fingal will be under severe pressure to provide them. I do wonder how many of these homes will be for the council? It is vital though that if we have learned anything from the past we must have roads, schools and open space ready when first residents move in.

This is the thing, where does it say that Fingal, and Swords specifically needs housing for 10,000 people? Apart from the Lap, what study has been done and by what external agency showing this demand?

LeoB wrote: »

Mr. Gannon in fairness has put substantial money in to most sports around Fingal. As far as I know he was mixed up with F.A.I when he got involved with Sporting Fingal.

Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issue right here. There are too many links between the developer and the council. Fair enough he may be a genuine sports fan and has a genuine interest in supporting local clubs (I know if I had the money I'd love to do such things), however the cynical perception amongst some people would have us think otherwise. Sure it's the whole Galway Tent thing that has us so cynical these days

ragg

rubberdiddies wrote: »

This is the thing, where does it say that Fingal, and Swords specifically needs housing for 10,000 people? Apart from the Lap, what study has been done and by what external agency showing this demand?



Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issue right here. There are too many links between the developer and the council. Fair enough he may be a genuine sports fan and has a genuine interest in supporting local clubs (I know if I had the money I'd love to do such things), however the cynical perception amongst some people would have us think otherwise. Sure it's the whole Galway Tent thing that has us so cynical these days

Well put, its a sad indication of the cronyism thats rife throughout every aspect of public life...
Maybe as irish people we don't want to know, I mean i got threatened by mods on this board for even raising it. Not one newspaper has reported it.
I would have thought that that maybe we're odd & paranoid, but the dogs on the street are talking about this.. I just hope a brave journalist investigates this, as you can be sure as hell that no one in FCC or local government will.

The Hill Billy

What a kerfuffle!

ragg - You've ignored on-thread warnings & numerous PMs advising you (most certainly not threatening you) what to do in relation to your thoughts on this thread.

Take a month off to figure it out.

HB

PS - I may be pathetic & I may be a tosser, but I am not fat. I am just big-boned.

LeoB

rubberdiddies wrote: »

This is the thing, where does it say that Fingal, and Swords specifically needs housing for 10,000 people? Apart from the Lap, what study has been done and by what external agency showing this demand?



Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issue right here. There are too many links between the developer and the council. Fair enough he may be a genuine sports fan and has a genuine interest in supporting local clubs (I know if I had the money I'd love to do such things), however the cynical perception amongst some people would have us think otherwise. Sure it's the whole Galway Tent thing that has us so cynical these days

On the first point you quote me on, You must only read comics. There are quite a few in the Swords area alone waiting to be housed not to mention the rest of Fingal. I have a pain in my Ar** reading about the difficulties people are in. Everyone knows that a lot of homes and homeowners are under pressure from banks and other lending agencies and this is where the first demand will come from. And like a lot of others it sickens me to see young people under such strain. There is also an ever growing housing list of Irish people waiting to be housed. Some are waiting a few years. Fingal can only build a handful of houses each year and if Mr. Gannon or Worzel Gummage builds them houses Fingal will take them. If Mr Gannon built 50 or 100 houses for F.C.C there would also be savings to the exchecquer as we would not be wasting money on renting houses, but thats a different issue. Where these houses are built might be an issue but you dont need a LAP or study to see we need them

On the Gallway tent comment!! I hope you just forgot to include the K-Club golf classics and the free handouts other Parties might recieve. All parties take handouts in some shape just to survive they just have different ways of doing it.

The only problem I have with Mr. Gannon is he gave my club no money. From what I have found out in the mean time is this man is quite generous not only to sports clubs but to charities. He got involved with f..C.C via the proposed Fingal sports campus for Lusk which he felt was good for the community. And just to clarify I am a G.A.A supporter but supported the Fingal sports campus as it was good for all the community despite the fact only Juvenile G.A.A could be catered for. We need more people like him to invest in local community projects and instead of being cynical we should step back sometimes and say Well done and thank you

rubberdiddies

Rather than attempt to insult me you gave a typical politicians answer and didn't answer my question.

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Secondly you're assuming that these houses are going to be used for social housing. A certain percentage maybe but not the majority

Bluetonic

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Surely to God if you were that interested in find out you'd have looked for the information yourself? Or were you hoping it didn't exist?

I suppose you will pick holes in this but none the less here it is.

Eoineo

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Rather than attempt to insult me you gave a typical politicians answer and didn't answer my question.

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Secondly you're assuming that these houses are going to be used for social housing. A certain percentage maybe but not the majority

If you feel that X number of houses is not needed in the area when the planning application is made. You can use that as one of the arguments in your objection.

rubberdiddies

Thanks for the link. As I said earlier i was genuinely interEsted in reading sch a doc and couldn't find it.

If I deem it necessary to lodge an objection then I will but only when I've armed myself with all the facts and this doc contains some of the Facts required.

I'm not sure why the previous two posters are trying to put my opinions down. What we all need to realise is that FCC are in debt to the tune of tens if not hundreds of millions. That in itself is enough to set alarm bells ringing and to question a decision that will affect 10's of thousands of people.

I work in the private sector having come from the public sector. The major difference is that if my Company was in so much debt, the CEO and a lot of the senior management would no longer be working for the company.

I'd love it if more people questioned major decisions like this. Luckily we live in a democracy and have the right to question things.

Believe it or not I am asking these questions because I'm genuinely concerned for the area because I love it so much.

I love the fact that if this goes ahead it will create thousands of much needed jobs. But I'm concerned that if it dies go ahead we will have more ghost estates, congested roads and further strain on our already crumbling water supply.

I think the veiled 'digs' in the previous two posts are unnecessary and I invite the posters to declare any conflicts of/vested interests in thus project if there are any

Beasty

Rubberdiddies

If you do have a problem with any posts, press the "Report Post" buttons and one of the Mods will look at it

I don't consider either of the previous two posts contained "veiled digs" at you - they were simply stating that if you have such concerns there are things you can do yourself to try and address them.

The fact that you do not know whether FCC is tens or hundreds of millions in debt is another example where you could check the facts yourself, rather than simply posting your own assumptions here. I do not claim to understand the financial position of FCC, but a quick look on their website suggests a balanced budget was put forward for 2010 (and a small surplus was brought forward from 2009)

rubberdiddies

Is this not a discussion forum to discuss and ask questions when I don't know the answer?

Sure if we were all to google everything then there'd be no point in boards.

I stand by all my points and questions

Eoineo

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I think the veiled 'digs' in the previous two posts are unnecessary and I invite the posters to declare any conflicts of/vested interests in thus project if there are any

What veiled dig?????

As I already pointed out earlier this is a LAP. It's not a grant of planning permission to Mr Gannon or any other developer. I do understand that you feel that this has been voted through without what you believe to be adequate consultation or engagement with the public. There's very little you can do about the LAP now other than initiate a judicial review (I think this is what is needed), so if you disagree with the amount of housing, design, whatever then you can object using the normal planning process.

Conflict/vested interest?
I've only just pulled myself back up to the computer from rolling about the floor laughing. What contact I do have with the Council is via the bit of volunteering I do in my community. I'm not a fan of any developer but in particular Gannon Homes is in my bottom 10.
I am not associated with, nor am I a member of any political party either.

rubberdiddies

Eoino I genuinely Wasn't saying you had a conflict of intereat, was merely asking in case anyone had it would be best to declare it.

Nothing can be done about the LAP I know but I don't see an issue with questioning a potential population increase of 10000. As I said earlier if it can be shown that the increase is necessary then great and I will completely accept that. But until such time I will continue to question it as I don't believe it is. In saying that I'm far from an expert on this which is why I'm posting here, to seek other peoples opinions