Insurance and driving "other" cars

bob2oo7

Just a very quick one

My insurance covers me to drive other cars and I'm covered Third Pary

Does this mean I can drive "any" car (ie, one that is not currently insured by its ownwer?)

Will my insurance cover me anyway?

Or does it have to be insured by the registered owner?

Thanks in advance

stevenmu

It depends on the exact terms given by your insurance company, but most if not all of them require the other car to be insured.

djimi

You need to check with your insurer; it varies from policy to policy.

Read your policy also; it probably says so in there.

mb1725

Usually other car must be insured independently, ie loan car or similar.

seamus

As said, it varies from policy to policy.

In general, the "driving other cars" clause normally covers you third-party only provided that the car doesn't belong to you or your spouse, and you are not otherwise covered on the vehicle (e.g. if you're driving a loaner from a garage, you're covered under their policy and not under your own, so the "driving other cars" clause doesn't apply).

"Open drive" is a different thing which allows anyone to drive your car provided that they have their own insurance policy on another car (and are over a certain age and fully licenced usually).

Most people confuse the two. You should always check your own policy handbook before hopping into someone's car.

Barr

As long as the car is not registered to you , your insured TPO. The car does not need to be currently insured either.

Tefral

Barr wrote: »

The car does not need to be currently insured either.

This is the actually the case in MOST policys, at this stage ive been with most of the Main underwriters and none of them required that the car be insured under another policy. At the end of the day if you crash, your policy will take the hit not the other persons.

Normally the rule is that the car:
1. Must not be registered to you.
2. Must not be registered to your employer.
3. Not leased to you under a Hire Purchase agreement
4. You have the owners permission to use it ie. not stolen..
5. Not in the motortrade

stevenmu

cronin_j wrote: »

At the end of the day if you crash, your policy will take the hit not the other persons.

Yes, but many policies do require the other vehicle to be insured anyway. The reason they do this is to reduce the number of people who buy and insure a 1ltr Polo, then get their "father" to buy a more powerful car which they then drive day to day.

furtzy

Barr wrote: »

As long as the car is not registered to you , your insured TPO. The car does not need to be currently insured either.

Always states the other car must have a valid policy in place on any policy I've ever had.

Prevents the fraud issue the above poster mentioned

Alun

stevenmu wrote: »

Yes, but many policies do require the other vehicle to be insured anyway. The reason they do this is to reduce the number of people who buy and insure a 1ltr Polo, then get their "father" to buy a more powerful car which they then drive day to day.

That's what I thought too .. it's a loophole the size of a barn door otherwise.

JustAddWater

My insurance company explicitly states the car can't be registered in a direct family members name either!

Alun wrote: »

That's what I thought too .. it's a loophole the size of a barn door otherwise.

seamus

furtzy wrote: »

Always states the other car must have a valid policy in place on any policy I've ever had.

Never stated it on any policy I've ever had. Checked Hibernian, Quinn and FBD today, they don't require it.

stevenmu wrote: »

Yes, but many policies do require the other vehicle to be insured anyway. The reason they do this is to reduce the number of people who buy and insure a 1ltr Polo, then get their "father" to buy a more powerful car which they then drive day to day.

That's not a loophole though in reality it's just a case of doing it and hoping that nobody cops on. It's fraud, and in the eyes of the law they aren't insured. Ownership isn't conferred by a VLC, so if the insurance company can be satisfied that the young person paid for the vehicle and drives it on a day-to-day basis, then the vehicle belongs to him and he is driving/has driven uninsured.

There are also issues around dependent adults living at home and ownership of family assets and such.

I never saw this clause available on a policy until I was 25, so I suspect that young drivers don't have this clause on their policy and are not allowed to drive other cars at all, which is how they combat the above fraud.

Divorce Referendum

Barr wrote: »

As long as the car is not registered to you , your insured TPO. The car does not need to be currently insured either.

Funnily enough i have my new ford focus insured with quinn direct. Brought it into the garage for a bit of work one day and I still had my previous car which was still registered in my name. Quinn transfered insurance for me because the fous was at a mechanics and would only do it on that basis. Strange but true.

Zurich is another one to add to the list of insurers that don't require the other car to be insured. I'm fairly sure Axa and Allianz are the same but am open to correction on that.

Some insurers have a clause in place that you cannot drive a car with a bigger engine than your own, which closes the loophole mentioned above.

Mine, iirc, states that it can be no bigger than a 2.0 litre.

Corkladddd!!

Sitec wrote: »

I know a lad who had this drive other cars policy. Bought a fiesta van and insured it himself. Bought a 300zx TT and insured his father on it.

Drove the ZX for about 2 years and never got any hassle from the gardai.:eek:

Are you sure? fiesta would probably have commercial rather than private insurance and i know that the 3rd party extension doesnt cover a commercial vehicle (I rang and asked re:driving the jeep at home) only other passanger vehicles

Del2005

Sitec wrote: »

I know a lad who had this drive other cars policy. Bought a fiesta van and insured it himself. Bought a 300zx TT and insured his father on it.

Drove the ZX for about 2 years and never got any hassle from the gardai.:eek:

It's not the Gardaí you have to worry about. Gardaí don't really care once you can show a cert

It's if something happens and a claim is made, then the s**te will hit the fan.

Insurance companies really really don't like paying out money so there's no point in giving them an easy way out.

stevenmu

seamus wrote: »

That's not a loophole though in reality it's just a case of doing it and hoping that nobody cops on. It's fraud, and in the eyes of the law they aren't insured. Ownership isn't conferred by a VLC, so if the insurance company can be satisfied that the young person paid for the vehicle and drives it on a day-to-day basis, then the vehicle belongs to him and he is driving/has driven uninsured.

True, but that wouldn't stop people trying it and thinking that they would get away with it. There have been many posts on the forum here by people thinking of trying that very thing.

Requiring the other car to be insured is at least some disincentive to people trying it. Although to be honest I've just assumed that this is the reason for the requirement, I've nothing really to back it up.

furtzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Zurich is another one to add to the list of insurers that don't require the other car to be insured. I'm fairly sure Axa and Allianz are the same but am open to correction on that.

Some insurers have a clause in place that you cannot drive a car with a bigger engine than your own, which closes the loophole mentioned above.

Mine, iirc, states that it can be no bigger than a 2.0 litre.

Strange..... AXA and Allianz had this stipulation on my policies in the past. Current insurer RSA also states this.

Double check the terms in your policy...usually spelt out in legal jargon

cpoh1

furtzy wrote: »

Strange..... AXA and Allianz had this stipulation on my policies in the past. Current insurer RSA also states this.

Double check the terms in your policy...usually spelt out in legal jargon

Im with AXA and they dont require the other car to be insured independently, partner is with allianz and they dont either.

I confirmed by email and phone with both in the past.

Hibernian and quinn are other companies that dont require it either. Im yet to hear of one that does to be honest.

The only issue you have is that gardai stipulate that you require a valid insurance disc in the window.

Alanstrainor

Sitec wrote: »

I know a lad who had this drive other cars policy. Bought a fiesta van and insured it himself. Bought a 300zx TT and insured his father on it.

Drove the ZX for about 2 years and never got any hassle from the gardai.:eek:

Well he wouldn't get any hassle unless they really checked up on it. If he was involved in an accident, things would start to get messy.

Barr

furtzy wrote: »

Always states the other car must have a valid policy in place on any policy I've ever had.

Prevents the fraud issue the above poster mentioned

no it doesn't - prove it ?

Esel

Corkladddd!! wrote: »

Are you sure? fiesta would probably have commercial rather than private insurance and i know that the 3rd party extension doesnt cover a commercial vehicle (I rang and asked re:driving the jeep at home) only other passanger vehicles

What you''re not grasping here is that the other vehicle is not commercial.

Barr

Sitec wrote: »

I'm not saying it's right and I agree 100% on the insurance side of thigs. At the same time though it shows how many loopholes are in the current system!

"Drive Other Cars" should not be allowed without 5 years NCB.

I agree there should be some stipulations; the system is open to exploitation at the moment.
.

2yung2adm

I honestly do not know where some posters get their information on this subject.
I have been insured by many insurance companies down through the years. I have always had the driving of other cars on my policy.
It has never mentioned that the other car has to be otherwise insured.

It simply states that the other car must not be owned by you/ or emploiyer, hired out or leased etc.
It does not state anywhere that it has to be insured by another person.
In fact a car cannot be legally covered by two or more sets of insurance.
The only stumbling block is the display of a valid insurance disk.

This may be overcome if in the even of being stopped by contacting your insurance company and explaining to them that you were driving car B while your own was off the road.
An insurance disc is not required to be displayed within 10 days of the date of authentication of the insurance cert

Esel

2yung2adm wrote: »

I honestly do not know where some posters get their information on this subject.
I have been insured by many insurance companies down through the years. I have always had the driving of other cars on my policy.
It has never mentioned that the other car has to be otherwise insured.

Some people get it from the interweb; the smart ones get it from their insurance policy.

The fact is: some policies state the other vehicle must be insured; others don't.

2yung2adm wrote: »

In fact a car cannot be legally covered by two or more sets of insurance.

Maybe, but your driving of another vehicle only covers you for third party claims. The vehicle could be insured comprehensively by the owner, and in the event that you crash it, the owner could claim for the cost of having it repaired under their own policy.

Corkladddd!!

esel wrote: »

What you''re not grasping here is that the other vehicle is not commercial.

I was simply saying that my private policy doesn't allow driving of commercial vehicles on third party extension, so I'd be careful because on that premise I would presume that a commercial policy doesn't allow driving of private vehicles. Some people might not have checked this out properly and just saw 3rd party and presumed all was ok......

furtzy

furtzy wrote: »

Always states the other car must have a valid policy in place on any policy I've ever had.

Prevents the fraud issue the above poster mentioned

Stated that on my Hibernian policy years ago, since then I've had Quinn, Hibernian and travellers and they don't require it.

JustAddWater

JustAddWater wrote: »

My insurance company explicitly states the car can't be registered in a direct family members name either!

That is a ridiculous stipulation and I doubt it exists except for a husband/wife not being allowd to drive each others car using the extension. I would say the majority use of the driving others cars extension is when borrowing a parents or other close relations car.

Corkladddd!! wrote: »

I was simply saying that my private policy doesn't allow driving of commercial vehicles on third party extension, so I'd be careful because on that premise I would presume that a commercial policy doesn't allow driving of private vehicles. Some people might not have checked this out properly and just saw 3rd party and presumed all was ok......

When I had a car-van insured with Quinn I was covered to drive other cars but not other commercials.

furtzy

Barr wrote: »

no it doesn't - prove it ?

Can't find the old policy but new policy will be with me in next couple of days so I'll post up the exact text then

seamus

2yung2adm wrote: »

In fact a car cannot be legally covered by two or more sets of insurance.

That's actually not entirely true. You can take out multiple insurance policies on the one vehicle, but in the event of an accident, the cost is shared equally among the insurers - i.e. you don't get a full payout from each insurer. So there's no benefit to insuring things multiple times.

In the case of car insurance afaik, it's the insurer providing the most explicit cover who shoulders the cost. So if I'm a named driver on my mate's car, but my insurance policy also covers driving other cars, then in the event of a crash it's my mate's insurance company who pays out because I'm specifically insured to drive that vehicle (as opposed to being generally insured to drive any vehicle).

2yung2adm

seamus wrote: »

That's actually not entirely true. You can take out multiple insurance policies on the one vehicle, but in the event of an accident, the cost is shared equally among the insurers - i.e. you don't get a full payout from each insurer. So there's no benefit to insuring things multiple times.

In the case of car insurance afaik, it's the insurer providing the most explicit cover who shoulders the cost. So if I'm a named driver on my mate's car, but my insurance policy also covers driving other cars, then in the event of a crash it's my mate's insurance company who pays out because I'm specifically insured to drive that vehicle (as opposed to being generally insured to drive any vehicle).

I can assure you that you are incorrect.It comes down to 'Double Indemnity' You cannot have two or more insurance policies attached to the one car. You can have one insurance two cars but not the other way around and of course a trade policy where it is just the holders name that appears on the disc, that is an example of one policy several cars.
And just for the record you cannot have two tax discs displayed on the one windscreen even if the second one is expired-it is an offence.

Show me the proof and I will eat humble pie but I think I will have a lot of sandwiches eaten before I get to eat the pie

seamus

I believe the proof is up to you to show that you cannot have more than one insurance policy on a vehicle.

2yung2adm

esel wrote: »

Some people get it from the interweb; the smart ones get it from their insurance policy.

The fact is: some policies state the other vehicle must be insured; others don't.

Again you provide me with proof of that 'fact' and I will eat humble pie.

This thing comes up every so often the same as the towing of trailers. Every year someone will come up with the statement "you cannot tow a trailer this year unless you have a four by four"...and the most popular one "you cannot tow a trailer without it having brakes" and every year they are wrong. The regulations of the weight of towed trailer to a precentage of the weight of the towing vehicle has been there since the 1966 act as has been the requirement for brakes and a secondary coupling on any twin axle trailer

Maybe, but your driving of another vehicle only covers you for third party claims. The vehicle could be insured comprehensively by the owner, and in the event that you crash it, the owner could claim for the cost of having it repaired under their own policy.

Comprehensive insurance does not employ that your car can be driven by others. Some will have named drivers and more will have open driving-any licensed driver within laid down paramaters- there is no connection between comprehensive insurance and open driving.
Many comprehensive policies will not have open driving or named drivers-in fact some recent policies do not now have the clause whereby it was covered for driving by a person in the motor trade for the overhaul and upkeep of the car. Did you notice that?

So I am afraid if you drive another car on your own policy you are driving it on the basic third party and if you are not named on the owners comprehensive policy or the owner does not have open comprehensive cover you will be paying out of your own pocket.
Notwithstanding all of above AXA have a scheme whereby if you have 5 years no claim you will get driving of other cars whereby you are covered comprehensively while so doing.

djimi

2yung2adm wrote: »

I can assure you that you are incorrect.It comes down to 'Double Indemnity' You cannot have two or more insurance policies attached to the one car. You can have one insurance two cars but not the other way around and of course a trade policy where it is just the holders name that appears on the disc, that is an example of one policy several cars.
And just for the record you cannot have two tax discs displayed on the one windscreen even if the second one is expired-it is an offence.

Show me the proof and I will eat humble pie but I think I will have a lot of sandwiches eaten before I get to eat the pie

Whether youre right or wrong, thats not what double indemnity means...

2yung2adm

djimi wrote: »

Whether youre right or wrong, thats not what double indemnity means...

And pray tell me your understanding of double indemnity in relation to insurance policies and the indemnity granted by them.

djimi

2yung2adm wrote: »

Again you provide me with proof of that 'fact' and I will eat humble pie.

Its true that the rules regarding the state of insurance on the car vary from car to car. One of my previous insurance companies (I think it was Axa) stated that in order for me to drive another car on my insurance that other car had to be covered by its own insurance policy. Im not going to bother trying to dig out my policy to prove it to you, but theres enough people on this thread saying the same to make it believable...

2yung2adm wrote: »

Comprehensive insurance does not employ that your car can be driven by others. Some will have named drivers and more will have open driving-any licensed driver within laid down paramaters- there is no connection between comprehensive insurance and open driving.
Many comprehensive policies will not have open driving or named drivers-in fact some recent policies do not now have the clause whereby it was covered for driving by a person in the motor trade for the overhaul and upkeep of the car. Did you notice that?

So I am afraid if you drive another car on your own policy you are driving it on the basic third party and if you are not named on the owners comprehensive policy or the owner does not have open comprehensive cover you will be paying out of your own pocket.
Notwithstanding all of above AXA have a scheme whereby if you have 5 years no claim you will get driving of other cars whereby you are covered comprehensively while so doing.

I believe you are correct about this. If you drive someone elses car you have third party insurance only on it. If you crash I dont think that the owners insurance will cover the damage to the car unless they have open insurance on the policy.

djimi

2yung2adm wrote: »

And pray tell me your understanding of double indemnity in relation to insurance policies and the indemnity granted by them.

My understanding of double indemnity is that it is a clause on a life insurance policy whereby the insurer pays out double in the case of the insured accidental death. I have never heard the term refer to anything else, but of course I am happy to be proven wrong.

2yung2adm

djimi wrote: »

Its true that the rules regarding the state of insurance on the car vary from car to car. One of my previous insurance companies (I think it was Axa) stated that in order for me to drive another car on my insurance that other car had to be covered by its own insurance policy. Im not going to bother trying to dig out my policy to prove it to you, but theres enough people on this thread saying the same to make it believable...

I have just checked back on five AXA policies, three Hibernian policies and six FBD policies and none of them state the other vehicle has to be insured. Quite honestly I have put thousands of certs through my hands and never came across that stipulation. So it is not the policy(excuse the pun) to have that stipulation but there may have been exceptions and I would like to see the proof of it.
As regards believing what is stated on this forum... well that is the makings of a new thread and perhaps a different forum




[/QUOTE] I believe you are correct about this. If you drive someone elses car you have third party insurance only on it. If you crash I dont think that the owners insurance will cover the damage to the car unless they have open insurance on the policy.[/QUOTE]
That is a correct assessment

djimi

Next time Im at my parents house Ill see if I can dig up one of my old policies.

challengemaster

I'm with Quinn - doesn't require the other car to be insured. Comes in handy from time to time, tbh

Del2005

esel wrote: »

Maybe, but your driving of another vehicle only covers you for third party claims. The vehicle could be insured comprehensively by the owner, and in the event that you crash it, the owner could claim for the cost of having it repaired under their own policy.

I checked up on the driving another cars extension with both my insurer and the other persons insurer. If I'm driving someone else's car then the only policy in affect on it is mine. Their policy can't be used if anything happens.

djimi wrote: »

I believe you are correct about this. If you drive someone elses car you have third party insurance only on it. If you crash I dont think that the owners insurance will cover the damage to the car unless they have open insurance on the policy.

You'd better have understanding friends if you crash their car will driving on your "driving other cars extension", unless your policy has a fully comp extension.

Barr

2yung2adm wrote: »

I have just checked back on five AXA policies, three Hibernian policies and six FBD policies and none of them state the other vehicle has to be insured. Quite honestly I have put thousands of certs through my hands and never came across that stipulation. So it is not the policy(excuse the pun) to have that stipulation but there may have been exceptions and I would like to see the proof of it.
As regards believing what is stated on this forum... well that is the makings of a new thread and perhaps a different forum

I believe you are correct about this. If you drive someone elses car you have third party insurance only on it. If you crash I dont think that the owners insurance will cover the damage to the car unless they have open insurance on the policy.[/QUOTE]
That is a correct assessment[/QUOTE]

Everything 2yung2adm has said here is correct and I don’t think he will be proved wrong.

slimjimmc

esel wrote: »

Maybe, but your driving of another vehicle only covers you for third party claims. The vehicle could be insured comprehensively by the owner, and in the event that you crash it, the owner could claim for the cost of having it repaired under their own policy.

djimi wrote: »

I believe you are correct about this. If you drive someone elses car you have third party insurance only on it. If you crash I dont think that the owners insurance will cover the damage to the car unless they have open insurance on the policy.

As a general rule, yes. But my AXA policy gives me full comprehensive cover while driving someone else's car. If crash it I (or possibility the car's owner) can claim for damages to that car.

Some insurance policies also have the proviso that your own car must be kept off the road while you're driving the other car. Probably there to stop you taking your mate's car for a spin while your other half goes shopping.

djimi

Is that something you asked to have on your policy? Or are you a long time claim free customer of Axa or something? Thats quite unusual from my experience anyway to get fully comp cover while driving someone elses car; in my time Ive probably gotten a quote from every insurance company in the country at least twice or three times and Ive never been offered that.

Im not doubting you btw, I just think its unusual and you are lucky to have it!

slimjimmc

djimi wrote: »

Is that something you asked to have on your policy? Or are you a long time claim free customer of Axa or something? Thats quite unusual from my experience anyway to get fully comp cover while driving someone elses car; in my time Ive probably gotten a quote from every insurance company in the country at least twice or three times and Ive never been offered that.

Im not doubting you btw, I just think its unusual and you are lucky to have it!

Long time claim-free customer although there I've had a few breaks away just to stop them getting complacent . It's an add-on to the standard policy. I rarely drive other cars but when I do it's worth it for the peace of mind alone.

Naturally there are restrictions:

http://www.axa.ie/download/axa-car-insurance.pdf

Loss of or damage to a car you borrow from
another person
This cover does not apply unless it is shown in your schedule under section 1.
As well as covering you for your legal responsibility to others, we will give you
cover as described in section 1. If you have cover under section 2 we will cover
damage to any car you are driving (under clause 5(b) of your certificate).
This cover will only apply if:

• the policy schedule shows that your cover is comprehensive;
• the certificate of motor insurance contains the ‘driving other cars’ clause number 5(b);
• you drive a private passenger vehicle. It does not include:

• Vans;
• Car-vans;
• Jeep type vehicles with no seats in the back;or
• Vans adapted to carry passengers.

• you are responsible for looking after a car that is being driven under clause 5(b) of the certificate;
• you do not regularly use or drive the car;
• there is no other insurance policy which covers you driving that car (whether or not that policy would cover what is covered by this extended cover);
• the car does not belong to you or your husband, wife or partner;
• the engine capacity of the car is no higher than 2,500 cubic centimetres;
• you have the owner’s permission to drive the car and have been driving it for less than 30 days; and
• the loss or damage happens in Ireland.

The most we will pay under this extended cover is €50,000.

CiniO

One thing came to my mind.

If driving other cars extension gives you a third party cover only, then how it actually works.

Third party insurance, should pay for any damage to someone elses propery while you are driving (and personal damage ofcourse too)

It's obvious, if you smash into someone's car or destroy someone's garden while driving your car, your insurance will pay for the damage.

But if you are driving a car borrowed from a friend (that isn't yours), then the car you are actuall driving, is not your property, but it someone elses propery.

In short words, if you borrow a car from a frind, and while driving it you crash into another car (2 cars damaged in total), then you insurance company should pay for damage to both cars - because they were all someone else's property which you caused a damage to.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

djimi

Consider yourself corrected :P

"Third party" refers to any other vehicle or whatever that you may be involved in an accident with that isnt your own vehicle. If you are driving someone elses car under your insurance then that car is effectively your car, ie, it is the vehicle covered by your insurance policy, and is not third party.

I dont know how well Ive explained that, but basically when driving someone elses car on third party insurance, it means that the insurance company will pay out for damage to any other vehilces or objects (or people) damaged as part of the incident, but not to the vehicle which you were driving.

challengemaster

No, I wouldn't think so.... TP extension means you are covered with 3rd party cover on the car you're driving - Essentially, you've swapped your own TPFT/comp cover, for TP only when swapping to the other car.

The car may well be someone elses property, but as you're the driver, your policy won't cover it.

As for AXA giving fully comp driving on other peoples cars - Comes with terms and conditions, as always

blog.axa.ie wrote:

When you’ve been with AXA for 3 years with comprehensive cover, we will upgrade your Third Party “Driving of Other Cars” cover to Comprehensive “Driving of Other Cars” cover at no extra cost.

2yung2adm

djimi wrote: »

Is that something you asked to have on your policy? Or are you a long time claim free customer of Axa or something? Thats quite unusual from my experience anyway to get fully comp cover while driving someone elses car; in my time Ive probably gotten a quote from every insurance company in the country at least twice or three times and Ive never been offered that.

Im not doubting you btw, I just think its unusual and you are lucky to have it!

AXA will automatically grant you comprehensive cover to drive other cars if you have five years NCB with them.

djimi

Ah very good. Shame they are so terrified of Jap imports and wont insure my car :P

challengemaster

2yung2adm wrote: »

AXA will automatically grant you comprehensive cover to drive other cars if you have five years NCB with them.

Since when? I'm getting all this info from axa's blog and their website FAQ

If you're 22 with a full license - You can drive other cars TP
If you're 25 with a full or LP - you can drive other cars TP

If you've got 3 years comprehensive cover with AXA, you'll get comprehensive on other cars.

Nowhere does it state 5 years NCB