Understanding Transgender.

GalwayGuy92

I have recently been reading all the threads about the transgendered among us and the struggles they face with soceity and finding support etc. But as someone who has no experience of transgender people, I find it hard to fully understand all that is spoken about in these threads. So I would like to ask a few questions in order to get a better insight and understanding.

When you first realise you are transgender is it a sudden moment of realisation or is it just something you know?
How is it you know you are transgender?
Is there a risk that some people wish to transition because they feel they would be more acceptable to soceity as a member of the opposite sex? (Because as they are they are a homosexual or other reasons.)


I ask solely out of a desire to understand the transgender population not to cause offence or outrage.

Links234

hi GalwayGuy92, thanks for posting, and don't worry you have not caused any offense or outrage. Ask any question you want, and I (and others) will answer as best we can.

When, and how someone knows that they are transgender varies from person to person, there's no easy answer. Some people just know from an extremely young age, other people struggle with feelings they can't put their finger on for many years. In this thread, from post #31 onwards, I talk a lot about how I came to terms with my gender identity, so that should help answering your question, and I'm sure others can relate tales of how they came to terms with their genders.

The idea that some people might transition because they feel it more acceptable to be a straight woman than a homosexual man is extremely unlikely, unless you're living in Iran where sex changes are sanctioned and homosexuals are put to death. In most cultures, those who are transgender are treated far worse than those who are gay, lesbian or bisexual. It's also pretty unlikely because there are a lot of lesbian trans women and gay trans men.

People transition for themselves, because they feel an intense dissonance between themselves and their physical sex. And believe me, there is nothing more intense, more uncomfortable and more disturbing than feeling your own genitalia is wrong.
Very, very rarely are there cases of people who transition and feel that it was the wrong thing for them.

hope that helps and if you have any more questions at all, feel free to ask

deirdre_dub

Galwayguy,

I think the thread mentioned by Links234 is well worth a read, especially from page 2 onwards, where a few of us get into debunking some of the myths around being trans.

For me, it most certainly wasn't a sudden awakening. Growing up, I couldn't understand why people called me male, but I accepted what they were saying (I didn't understand "female" either, so I wasn't able to self-identify as being female). Around age 9, I noticed an attraction for women's clothes. I started cross-dressing in my early 20s, but it wasn't until I was nearly 40 before I decided to address my cross-dressing in therapy. It took me about a year before I was able to self-identify as a transvestite, then another 4 months or so before I was able to self-identify as transsexual.

How do I know I am transsexual? That was a question that it took me 4 months of quite intensive work to answer.

- I found I felt an awful, whole lot better as "female" than as "male"
- I found I was identifying a lot with the feelings of other transsexuals, and I also found that where there was a difference between a transvestite and a transsexual, I identified with the latter
- The concept of gender started to make sense to me for the first time in my life.
- My sexuality also reacted - I began to see men in a whole new light!

It is important, at this juncture, to re-state what Links234 said - the answer to that question varies from person to person, so please don't take what I've said above as the definitive guide to a transsexual!

As for the risk of that someone would want to transition in order to be more accepted by society? In a way, that is the only reason why anyone ever transitions! The level of self-acceptance I have as female is far greater than the level I have as male, and so I'm not going to have an inner experience of acceptance by society unless I live a life that is true to myself. Of course, that inner experience of acceptance by society is marred by the fact that, for the rest of my life, I'm also going to experience occassional transphobia, but it is well well worth it.

However, I think you may actually have been asking "is there a danger that trans people are self-delusional?". If that is the question you were asking, then I'm sorry to say that it is somewhat offensive. But, in fairness, the answer to that question is "of course there is that danger!!!". There are delusional people throughout society. But it has to be said that the level and intensity of psychological/psychiatric screening of trans people is huge, with the result that the level of "regret" is, I believe, way less than 1%. Think about it - how many other medical interventions of the same severity of transition have a success rate of greater than 99%?

I ask solely out of a desire to understand the transgender population not to cause offence or outrage.

No offense taken. You didn't start the horrible myths about trans people, and you are clearly anxious to not perpetuate them, and I thank you for that.

GalwayGuy92

deirdre_dub wrote: »

.

However, I think you may actually have been asking "is there a danger that trans people are self-delusional?". If that is the question you were asking, then I'm sorry to say that it is somewhat offensive. But, in fairness, the answer to that question is "of course there is that danger!!!". There are delusional people throughout society. But it has to be said that the level and intensity of psychological/psychiatric screening of trans people is huge, with the result that the level of "regret" is, I believe, way less than 1%. Think about it - how many other medical interventions of the same severity of transition have a success rate of greater than 99%?

This is somewhat what was on my mind in a way but not in such an ignornant manner, trans people are not delusional in any way, nor was I under that misconception. I was just wondering if there was a danger that someone sufering from mental conditions such as depression or something else, may turn to this as the root of their problem when in fact it may not be (of course it may be but also may not be). From your answer it is clear that this is an offensive question to ask and I apologise for the bluntness but as you said it is a risk that exists but clearly it is a risk that is effectively dealt with in the screening processes as the high success rate suggests. I hadn't realised such an intense screening process was there, which now of course it sounds obvious such a system would be in effect.

Links234

GalwayGuy92 wrote: »

I was just wondering if there was a danger that someone sufering from mental conditions such as depression or something else, may turn to this as the root of their problem when in fact it may not be (of course it may be but also may not be).

It's a problematic question to ask because of the fact that the transsexual condition causes depression and other things. It's extremely stressful and distressing when your physical sex doesn't match up to your gender identity, and of course that can take it's toll on you. I suffered from depression, I also suffered from anxiety attacks and became agoraphobic. It's pretty hard to face the world when you feel you have to keep up this male persona, that every time you step outside your door you have to play a role, and that even your closest friends never even know you as a person. And I also suffer from genophobia.

But the thing is, don't confuse correlation for causation.
A person doesn't become trans because they're depressed, they're often depressed because they're trans and can't face up to that.

Consider that there's a higher rate of depression and suicide among gay people than among straight people. Are they gay because they're depressed? Or does the issues they have to face and the prejudice they can receive take their toll on some gay people?

GalwayGuy92

Links234 wrote: »

It's a problematic question to ask because of the fact that the transsexual condition causes depression and other things. It's extremely stressful and distressing when your physical sex doesn't match up to your gender identity, and of course that can take it's toll on you. I suffered from depression, I also suffered from anxiety attacks and became agoraphobic. It's pretty hard to face the world when you feel you have to keep up this male persona, that every time you step outside your door you have to play a role, and that even your closest friends never even know you as a person. And I also suffer from genophobia.

But the thing is, don't confuse correlation for causation.
A person doesn't become trans because they're depressed, they're often depressed because they're trans and can't face up to that.

Consider that there's a higher rate of depression and suicide among gay people than among straight people. Are they gay because they're depressed? Or does the issues they have to face and the prejudice they can receive take their toll on some gay people?

Thank you Links this is what I was trying (and failing) to get at.

I see how my post trivialised the issues faced by trans people and that was far beyond my intention. Having read the suggested posts I have found out a lot of things that opened my eyes to how closed minded I previously was with regard to transgendered people.
I think my main problem with understanding was that it requires the dropping of all my notions of gender and the mental aspect of gender. This is difficult to grasp since before I had thought myself open-minded, this wasn't so with regards trans people. The more I read about it the most interested I become, in trans people and the issue as a whole.

Links234

Well Galwayguy, I don't think you're closed minded, otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread and asked for people to help you understand. And I'm very happy you have done so, because not everyone would go out of their way to try and understand something like this. I'm glad you're finding it interesting too.

If there's any other questions at all, please go right ahead and ask.

deirdre_dub

GalwayGuy92 wrote: »

This is somewhat what was on my mind in a way but not in such an ignornant manner, trans people are not delusional in any way, nor was I under that misconception. I was just wondering if there was a danger that someone sufering from mental conditions such as depression or something else, may turn to this as the root of their problem when in fact it may not be (of course it may be but also may not be). From your answer it is clear that this is an offensive question to ask and I apologise for the bluntness but as you said it is a risk that exists but clearly it is a risk that is effectively dealt with in the screening processes as the high success rate suggests. I hadn't realised such an intense screening process was there, which now of course it sounds obvious such a system would be in effect.

Such questions are only offensive because of the assumptions that can be behind them. Usually when someone "asks" if a trans person "may" be suffering from self-delusion, the implication is that trans is "caused" by self-delusion. That implication I find offensive, for fairly obvious reasons.

I accept that you weren't implying that I, or any other trans person, is any more likely to be self-delusional than the general population - that removes any offense from your question.

Friends?

coolvale

i call myself a crossdresser. i like to dress in the clothes of the opposite sex.
i have always been interested in female clothes.i dont dress full time because of family etc.
i think a transvestite would be someone who "dress" all the time & go out in public dressed.
a transexual then is a person male or female who feel they should / want to change to the opposite sex & go on hormones to reach that goal.

GalwayGuy92

I was just wondering are there any FtM Trans people here? If so are your experiences similar as the MtF? Or are they remarkably different? I would imagine they are similar but so far most of my assumptions have been wrong with regards the issue.

deirdre_dub

coolvale wrote: »

i call myself a crossdresser. i like to dress in the clothes of the opposite sex.
i have always been interested in female clothes.i dont dress full time because of family etc.
i think a transvestite would be someone who "dress" all the time & go out in public dressed.
a transexual then is a person male or female who feel they should / want to change to the opposite sex & go on hormones to reach that goal.

The terms used to describe trans people are all very grey and shifting. The big problem is that no-one likes the "sexual" in "transsexual", as it has nothing to do with sexuality.

Being trans is grey - using your terminology above, there are people who are between cross-dresser and transvestite, and there are people who are between transvestite and transsexual.

coolvale

it seems that most trans people are male to female.
that is my obsevation of the situation.
maybe im wrong.

deirdre_dub

GalwayGuy92 wrote: »

I was just wondering are there any FtM Trans people here? If so are your experiences similar as the MtF? Or are they remarkably different? I would imagine they are similar but so far most of my assumptions have been wrong with regards the issue.

I've met more than one FtM. The issues are similar, and different. The social issues are broadly the same - transphobia, bullying, etc. The medical issues are a bit different. On the plus side, testosterone is stronger than estrogen, and so FtMs very quickly get to a much better level of "passability" than MtFs. In particular, their voices break! On the minus side, I believe the surgical options for FtMs aren't as great as those for MtFs.

I had the rather scary experience last weekend of holding a sachet of the testosterone gel that some FtMs use (there is more than one way of getting testosterone into the system). I can't imagine what I would have done if the sachet had burst!

deirdre_dub

coolvale wrote: »

it seems that most trans people are male to female.
that is my obsevation of the situation.
maybe im wrong.

You most certainly are.

I would say that it is probably 50-50. The thing is that a lot of trans people quietly "melt" back into society as soon as they have finished transition. However, MtF trans people seem to hold more of a fascination to society than FtM, and so we get talked about and written about more.

coolvale

deirdre you seem to have done your homework well.

deirdre_dub

coolvale wrote: »

deirdre you seem to have done your homework well.

Almost everything I've written is from experience - both my experience and the experience of other trans people I've met or whose stories I've read.

Links234

deirdre_dub wrote: »

The big problem is that no-one likes the "sexual" in "transsexual", as it has nothing to do with sexuality.

this is true of me personally, I much prefer transgender to describe myself

but I think coolvale points out something rather important, is that transgender is meant to be a blanket term that includes many gender variant people, including crossdressers and even intersex people. not all trans people are like me, and I'm not like all trans people, it's a varied bunch

also there are absolutely loads of FtMs, I don't know if it's 50/50 but probably pretty close to that. the thing is, we rarely hear about them in the media, and a lot of people don't seem to find it surprising that a female bodied person would want to become male bodied, but it's unfathomable to many that someone male bodied would want to become female bodied. then you've got the psychological perspective, and people on the MtF spectrum get all kinds of dehumanizing and ridiculous theories thrown at them to try and explain their gender identity, but there's almost nothing in comparison to that level of pathologicalization on the FtM spectrum, almost as if it were assumed that it's natural they'd want masculine bodies.

Links234

TRANSWHAT? is a good resource as well

coolvale

people dont take any notice of a female walking down the street dressed as a male.
so when she changes her body to male who will take notice ?

GalwayGuy92

coolvale wrote: »

people dont take any notice of a female walking down the street dressed as a male.
so when she changes her body to male who will take notice ?

His friends, family and partner? Everyone he knows and everyone who knows him. This change isn't just to the female body but to the whole web of people involved. Deirdre has said FtM transgendered people suffer much the same as MtF so this is an 'educated' guess. Besides there is a MASSIVE difference between dressing as a man and becoming a man in the eyes of soceity.

On an unrelated but still on-topic note, does anyone recall that show Anna Nolan had on RTE some years ago about transgender and crossdressing people? It was part of the 'Anna in Wonderland' series I think. I dont recall exactly the stance it took on the whole trans issue but as far as I remember it was fairly sympathetic.
Anyway, there was a FtM trangender person featured and this person seemed to imply that taking testosterone (possibly with other hormones too) caused male genetalia to be produced naturally (without surgery) by the female body, protruding through the vagina, I don't recall if it was functional or not but I was curious to see if anyone knew if this is true or just added in for good television viewing?

rainbow kirby

GalwayGuy92 wrote: »

Anyway, there was a FtM trangender person featured and this person seemed to imply that taking testosterone (possibly with other hormones too) caused male genetalia to be produced naturally (without surgery) by the female body, protruding through the vagina, I don't recall if it was functional or not but I was curious to see if anyone knew if this is true or just added in for good television viewing?

This isn't true. Hormones taken by transmen increase the size of the clitoris, but don't cause anything to protrude through the vagina.

GalwayGuy92

rainbow kirby wrote: »

This isn't true. Hormones taken by transmen increase the size of the clitoris, but don't cause anything to protrude through the vagina.

I pretty much expected that one but the show just popped into my head and I had to ask even though it sounds like a ridiculous question.

coolvale

one time sex or transgender issues would not be mentioned on irish tv or radio.
there was a nude scene on tv , it was an artist painting it was part of a series .there was such a carry on the remainder programs were not shown.

Links234

well as far as I know, the clitoris can become quite big from the testosterone
I saw some website before where there was this female wrestler who did a porn video, and I dunno maybe because of steriod abuse or testosterone, she had a massive clitoris

coolvale

im quite happy as i am being a cross dresser.
maybe if i was younger & know then what i know now i would have thought about things in a different light.
i will never know what my decission would have been.

Links234

coolvale wrote: »

im quite happy as i am being a cross dresser.
maybe if i was younger & know then what i know now i would have thought about things in a different light.
i will never know what my decission would have been.

Do you mean that you think you might have wanted to transition?

coolvale

i may have.
but when i was growing up anything to do with transgender was not discussed or heard of in ireland.
all i knew was i liked dressing in girls clothes.

Links234

coolvale wrote: »

i may have.
but when i was growing up anything to do with transgender was not discussed or heard of in ireland.
all i knew was i liked dressing in girls clothes.

If you still feel that way now, what's stopping you? don't think that you're too old to do it, that's kind of a sunk-cost fallacy.

coolvale

i got heart & other health problems so i would not be suitable for it.

Links234

oh I'm very sorry to hear that

coolvale

im ok so long as look after myself.

Annasopra

deirdre_dub wrote: »

You most certainly are.

I would say that it is probably 50-50. The thing is that a lot of trans people quietly "melt" back into society as soon as they have finished transition. However, MtF trans people seem to hold more of a fascination to society than FtM, and so we get talked about and written about more.

really? I know quite a few MTF but very few FTM people - also Trans activists seem to me to be mostly MTF - I have always assumed that there are less FTMs then MTFs just as there are not as many lesbians as there are gay men!

wonderfulname

Johnnymcg wrote: »

really? I know quite a few MTF but very few FTM people - also Trans activists seem to me to be mostly MTF - I have always assumed that there are less FTMs then MTFs just as there are not as many lesbians as there are gay men!

Wow theres something I never heard, is it really true? Stats please! I'm interested now..

EDIT: Are you really sure?, American wide surveys suggest your correct but I wouldn't trust them given the huge variation in viewpoints and legislation there.. The British one seems more trustworthy, intrestingly the % who answered yes to the question "Have you had a same sex partner in the last five years?" in 2000 was 2.6 exactly for both men and women. Sorry I'm blowing this off topic aren't I?

I have to say I'd always assumed a very high percentage of transgender people were MtF, although I realise thats probably due to the medias thing about masculinity, they also would also lead you to believe 99% of gays are camp men..

coolvale

i know & of quite a few m/f but i dont know any f/m.
look at the internet site tvchix they are all m/f.i have not seen any f/m .
im not saying there are none just that i dont know any.

deirdre_dub

coolvale wrote: »

i know & of quite a few m/f but i dont know any f/m.
look at the internet site tvchix they are all m/f.

That is because tvchix is aimed at M2F!

I was in Cork at the weekend, and there was more than once during the weekend when I found I was in a group containing more F2M than M2F.

Eebs

FTMs exist. The reality of the situation is that it probably is more 50/50. A lot of trans men choose to go under the radar soon after passing and that's pretty soon after starting testosterone.

For info on hormone therapy for FTMs, what it can and cannot do, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_%28female-to-male%29

Don't misappropriate the trans experience by saying 'no one notices' when a trans man transitions. Your whole world goes upside down for a bit whether you're MTF or FTM and you transition.

The FTM side of things is filled with all sorts of 'Oh but you were so attractive' and doubt of the authenticity of your masculinity, constant obsession with genitals etc. Just like the MTF side of things has some of those elements. It's better to focus on our common ground then the differences. I resonate with a lot of the stories expressed by the trans women here.

Being a visible woman and wearing guys clothes might not be such a big deal in our culture as a visible man wearing womens clothes BUT androgeny, queerness and trying to appear as a man (not just simply wearing the clothes) definitely gets you noticed despite maybe your best efforts. and from experience can be pretty dangerous too.

Nevyn

Given that being mascline is seen as often being powerful, a "woman" who expresses mascline traits or dresses in a mascline manner is seen as for the lack of a better term aping her betters.

Where as a "man" who expresses feminine traits or dresses in a feminine manner is seen as making less of himself.

It's screwed up, but that is still there in the subconcious of many people and of society.

So it is easier to not wear skirts and dresses and heel and to wear boots and jeans and workshirts then it is to go the other way around, and it certianly tends to draw less notice but that doens't mean we don't have as many FTM people out there, it's just the
double standards.

Annasopra

Eebs wrote: »

FTMs exist. The reality of the situation is that it probably is more 50/50.

I know that FTMs exist - I was kind of thinking aloud that there appears to be a lot less FTMs then MTFs so I was kind of wondering is it 50/50? - even the trans activists here in Ireland are MTF

Eebs

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I know that FTMs exist - I was kind of thinking aloud that there appears to be a lot less FTMs then MTFs so I was kind of wondering is it 50/50? - even the trans activists here in Ireland are MTF

Where are you getting that from??
Firstly I consider myself a trans activist (and I'm FTM) and secondly FTMs, allys and genderqueer people are pretty involved at the moment. It's a pet peeve of mine when people say random flippant things like that so I'm not trying to start a fight but I feel like people saying 'oh there are no FTMs in activism / in Ireland' erases not just my experience but also the older generation of FTMs who really looked after me during my transition and fought hard for Trans activism (often in their own less visible ways).

I think it's been well explained now it is likely 50/50 even though it may appear not to be. Until there is comprehensive study in Ireland we won't really know for sure but appearances are certainly deceptive.

Nevyn

I think that the FTM community has been quietly doing it's own thing, again pockets of people doing thier own thing and not having a notable public presence or profile.

I don't think that a person who is actively involved in one part of the 'community' saying they have never encountered FTM activist erases your experience or what you know, or who you know.

I would hope on hearing that you'd share with is so we'd all know more.

The media is it seem fascinated with MTF so frm the outside looking in I can understand between that and that there are some rather high profile ladies out there it can seem to be a lack of FTM, as there are not as many high profile gentlemen.

Does this stem back to the schism in the community and how it seems to be split along gender lines? The lesbian scenes being more underground and the FTM then falling inline with that?

Annasopra

Eebs wrote: »

Where are you getting that from??
Firstly I consider myself a trans activist (and I'm FTM) and secondly FTMs, allys and genderqueer people are pretty involved at the moment. It's a pet peeve of mine when people say random flippant things like that so I'm not trying to start a fight but I feel like people saying 'oh there are no FTMs in activism / in Ireland' erases not just my experience but also the older generation of FTMs who really looked after me during my transition and fought hard for Trans activism (often in their own less visible ways).

I think it's been well explained now it is likely 50/50 even though it may appear not to be. Until there is comprehensive study in Ireland we won't really know for sure but appearances are certainly deceptive.

OK sorry I actually phrased that completely wrongly - I didn't mean that there are no FTM Trans activists in Ireland - what I was kind of trying to say is that MTF trans activists seem to be much more prominent

Eebs

Johnnymcg wrote: »

OK sorry I actually phrased that completely wrongly - I didn't mean that there are no FTM Trans activists in Ireland - what I was kind of trying to say is that MTF trans activists seem to be much more prominent

And I don't know where you are getting that from. Not all of the staff at TENI are MTF. A lot of the board isn't MTF. There are a fair heap of FTMs involved in the community in cork. Lydia Foy is MTF sure but she's hardly the crux of all Trans activism in Ireland.

If you were saying that perhaps more FTM activists need to be visible in ireland than that's one way of saying it without erasing transmen and no matter what anyones opinion, the statement

even the trans activists here in Ireland are MTF

excludes trans men and does erase them. It's not about saying you've never encountered trans men who are activists.

I understand now what you mean and you've conceded it should have been phrased better so it's ok. It just gets a bit old the 'FTMs aren't doing anything' shtick. Passing and going under the radar doesn't mean you're not doing anything. Everyone has their own way of helping out.

and I commend the MTF women who are visible and in fact all LGBT people who come out and face the harsh criticism of the public that is part and parcel with being out.

The thing about the FTM community is this, if you look for it, it's there.

Annasopra

Eebs I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in any way I was voicing aloud my perceptions

Eebs

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Eebs I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in any way I was voicing aloud my perceptions

Look it's grand now, but I felt I wanted to make my point clear.
No offence taken.

Links234

Thaedydal wrote: »

The media is it seem fascinated with MTF so frm the outside looking in I can understand between that and that there are some rather high profile ladies out there it can seem to be a lack of FTM, as there are not as many high profile gentlemen.

another thing to point out is that MTFs are sexualized far more than FTMs

Eebs

Links234 wrote: »

another thing to point out is that MTFs are sexualized far more than FTMs

I think a part of that is good oul fashioned misogyny at work too. Women are sexualised more then men and hence trans women are sexualised more also.

Links234

Yeah but what I mean is that because they are so sexualized they've got a much higher profile, and that's reflected in how visible trans girls are in pornography, but there are much fewer trans guys

Eebs

Links234 wrote: »

Yeah but what I mean is that because they are so sexualized they've got a much higher profile, and that's reflected in how visible trans girls are in pornography, but there are much fewer trans guys

Understood. You're absolutely right. I always think it's interesting that a lot of 'Johns' who get services from trans women / buy trans porn usually end up giving money which goes towards the trans woman's SRS. but trans women being pre-op is what they have the fetish for. So essentially they're destorying their own fantasy by indulging it.

Links234

Eebs wrote: »

Understood. You're absolutely right. I always think it's interesting that a lot of 'Johns' who get services from trans women / buy trans porn usually end up giving money which goes towards the trans woman's SRS. but trans women being pre-op is what they have the fetish for. So essentially they're destorying their own fantasy by indulging it.

yeah, I like the irony
people who like trans girls can be right creeps sometimes, I used to post a lot on the various chans that are out there, and there's a lot of jerks who'd really put down anyone who's had SRS, or if someone said they wanted it, there'd be a load of anonymous posts saying not to. it's not just the johns either, you get it from girls as well. I remember I spent hours talking to this girl one night who just didn't want to talk to me once I said that I wanted SRS. at first she tried to put me off the idea but I wasn't listening to any of it, so when i told her that I can't even stand to be touched down there, she stopped talking to me completely.
doesn't feel good to only be wanted for something you don't even like about yourself

Eebs

Links234 wrote: »

yeah, I like the irony
at first she tried to put me off the idea but I wasn't listening to any of it, so when i told her that I can't even stand to be touched down there, she stopped talking to me completely.
doesn't feel good to only be wanted for something you don't even like about yourself

Well that's not an experience unique to MTFs unfortunately. I've had several people try turn me off hormones, surgery etc and who were obsessed with my genitals.

For the record, I think it's weird to be fetishised so intensely about a particular aspect of yourself no matter what it is.
It's like if someone was really really obsessed with your hair colour. A fetish is beyond a preference or a like. Don't get me wrong, when it's mutual and consensual then I say more power to you, but when it's not it's so creepy and horrible.

Also, what is with other people thinking they get to have a say about trans bodies? or anyones bodies for that matter really. Body autonomy, what's so hard to understand about that?

I had to delete about 4 curse words from this post. Obviously I'm getting a bit ticked off thinking about it.

Links234

Eebs wrote: »

Well that's not an experience unique to MTFs unfortunately. I've had several people try turn me off hormones, surgery etc and who were obsessed with my genitals.

no, I'm sure it's not unique to MTFs at all
if I'm being completely honest, I can't wrap my head around actually wanting to be male at all, but I'd never ever try to talk you out of it or try to put you off because I know how uncomfortable it is when your body doesn't feel right. people should mind their business