Worst road accident in the history of the state claims 8 in Donegal

Amtmann

Eight men have been killed in a two-car crash in Co Donegal which has been described as the worst collision in the history of the State.

A black Volkswagen Passat, in which eight young men were travelling, was in collision with a red Toyota Corolla at approximately 10.40pm on the Buncrana to Clonmany Road.

Seven of the men in the Passat were killed and the eighth man is reported to be in a serious condition in Letterkenny General Hospital.

The driver of the Corrolla was transferred to Letterkenny General Hospital where he later died.

The occupants of the Passat ranged in age from their late teens to early twenties while the driver of the Corolla was a man in his 60s.

The dead men were from the parishes of Buncrana, Clonmany and Fahan. Clonmany parish priest Fr Fintan Diggin and Buncrana parish priest Fr John Walsh attended the scene of crash last night.

Gardaí believe the Passat had collided with a silver Renault several hundred yards before crashing into the Corolla. No one was injured in the first incident.

National Roads Authority road safety expert Stephen Lambert has visited the scene. He said it was the highest number of fatalities in a single crash since records began in 1961.

“I have never come across such a multiple road fatality scene and I am finding it very difficult to take in," he said.

He said Donegal has been the focus of road safety initiatives over recent years targeting young drivers aged between 18 and 24. He said seven of those killed last night fall into that age range. Mr Lambert also asked people not to rush to judgement about the cause of the crash.

The R238 between Buncrana and Clonmany remains closed north of Drumfree with traffic diversions in place.

Gardaí have appealed for anyone with information to contact them at Buncrana Garda station on 074 9320540. They said the collision happened at a series of bends.

A Mass for those killed was held at St Mary’s Oratory in Buncrana this morning.

Fr Rafal Januszewski, a curate in Buncrana, went to Letterkenny General Hospital last night to comfort the next of kin. He said there were 16 relatives there and that in his seven years as a priest he has never experienced a tragedy like it . He said hospital staff were extremely upset

Fine Gael Donegal North East TD Joe McHugh said it was a terrible day for the county.

Extending his sympathies to the families of the eight people who died, Mr McHugh said everyone living on the Inishowen peninsula would have some family connection to one of the victims.

“The people of Inishowen are waking up to another nightmare with the news of these eight deaths," he said. "Even the emergency officers themselves who witnessed the accident have been traumatised by what they witnessed.

“Now that the gardaí are investigating this matter, it is important that they be allowed the necessary time to conduct a proper investigation,” he added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0712/breaking5.html

The facts:

* Seven of those killed were travelling in one car (a Passat), while the eighth occupant of the car is critically injured.
* All of the occupants of the Passat were in the 18-24 age group.

Ham'nd'egger

Furet wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0712/breaking5.html

The facts:

* Seven of those killed were travelling in one car (a Passat), while the eighth occupant of the car is critically injured.
* All of the occupants of the Passat were in the 18-24 age group.

I know it's impossible to talk about this accident without asking some blunt or WTF questions but it's a desperate desperate sad happening so perhaps we should all think twice about the tact and context of our words before posting anything about this accident.

May they all rest in peace.

robbie_998

how the feck can ya fit 8 grown lads into a 5 seater car ?

sounds like a joy ride was going about.

This is why insurance cost a fecking bomb... cos of idiots like these running a muck :mad:

poor guy in the corolla.

homerjay2005

terrible terrible tragedy. shocking how in this day and age, drivers allow more than 4 other people into their car. looks like only the driver was wearing a seat belt and the other 7 were not. words cannot describe how shocking this is. sincere thoughts with the familys of the deceased.

i have relatives in the village there and they are all numb. i feel physically sick when i think of the pain up there right now.

sad day for the people of donegal. puts yesterdays big story of sport into pale light with all the trouble that caused, theres more important things in life than a bad reffing decision or indeed a world cup final.

shocking thing to happen. may they all rest in peace.

Aidan1

Absolutely tragic loss of life, there are a lot of families hurting this morning, and it's far too soon to start making insensitive accusations. As someone who has spent a morning pulling bits of a friends car out of field after an accident that involved a fatality and several serious injuries, there is no way of describing what this is like, and assigning blame will wait.

However, this is just the latest in a long line of very serious accidents in the area. There is clearly an issue of culture here, and it'll take a major effort to shift the perception that anything goes with regard to road use. I know the Gardai have put a lot of work into safety awareness and training in Co Donegal, but whatever they're doing, it ain't enough.

This is worth keeping in mind the next time you hear a 'rural' TD calling for more lax drink driving rules, and less policing of road traffic offences. This is the reason why policing is needed. It saves lives. Full stop.

thirtythirty

Aidan1 wrote: »

, and it's far too soon to start making insensitive accusations.
.

Aidan1 wrote: »

This is worth keeping in mind the next time you hear a 'rural' TD calling for more lax drink driving rules

.........


Anyway, irregardless of anything else, I hope that full details on this are released. It's the best way of education. Nothing annoys me more than a bland "a car left the road today..." - it might actually cause some people's driving habits to change if they said "a car was 20mph over the speed limit going into a corner today"...

At least good can come from tragedy then.

Amtmann

I'm not apportioning blame just yet, but the fact that there were so many people in one car 'speaks' to me. To be honest, my greatest fear when driving is not that I will mess up, but that the person coming against me will, and will kill me or my passengers as a result. The old cliché is true: you can be as careful as you like, but you never know what the person coming against you is capable of. And that is a frightening thought.

Aidan1

SpottyElephant - latter comment was made about the general problem of late night weekend road accidents in Ireland, and the fact that these type of accidents are the type of thing the law is seeking to stop, not making a specific allegation. WRT your second point, progress has been made - the media has been carefully schooled to give out the details of these things in a certain way (the word 'accident' has largely been replaced with collision, for example) - however the forensic (literally) details often have to wait until any court proceedings and an inquest is held. However the media (again) often report these proceedings in detail - there was an article on the Irishtimes website on a spate of accidents in Inishowen in which 24 or 25 people died (article was from 2005) which set out the reasons for each accident. Speed, over crowding and alcohol were pretty much constants.

seamus

Although a Donegal TD this morning was trying to make the claim that it was a "carrier" type vehicle, the Gardai seem to be intent on making it clear that this was a 5-seater vehicle (even Passat estates are 5-seater). While you could stick 3 in the boot of an estate, they wouldn't be safe and could easily result in this kind of carnage.

Apparently, having watched the match last night some of the people needed a lift home and everyone else decided to come along for the ride.

Unfortunately Donegal has a very poor record, but for very obvious reasons - young people buying and insuring large powerful cars across the border, drink-driving & speeding going unchecked by the Gardai and a network of narrow, twisting, poorly-maintained roads. It's bandit country up there. I'm not commenting on this specific incident, but Donegal always manages to produce the most brutal and tragic accidents when you open a paper on Monday morning.

The RSA, the Garda and the NRA should be coming up with a strategy specifically to target the numerous problems with driving in Donegal.

K-9

seamus wrote: »

Although a Donegal TD this morning was trying to make the claim that it was a "carrier" type vehicle, the Gardai seem to be intent on making it clear that this was a 5-seater vehicle (even Passat estates are 5-seater). While you could stick 3 in the boot of an estate, they wouldn't be safe and could easily result in this kind of carnage.

Apparently, having watched the match last night some of the people needed a lift home and everyone else decided to come along for the ride.

Unfortunately Donegal has a very poor record, but for very obvious reasons - young people buying and insuring large powerful cars across the border, drink-driving & speeding going unchecked by the Gardai and a network of narrow, twisting, poorly-maintained roads. It's bandit country up there. I'm not commenting on this specific incident, but Donegal always manages to produce the most brutal and tragic accidents when you open a paper on Monday morning.

The RSA, the Garda and the NRA should be coming up with a strategy specifically to target the numerous problems with driving in Donegal.

Jim McDaid TD was quite graphic on Newstalk earlier about the passengers who were in the "middle of the car". He was referring to the ES personnel he was talking to I think.

The removal of the remains will be tear jerking. Young lads all from within a few miles of each other, from small villages in the Clonmany area.

The road deaths had been decreasing here to AFAIK.

ongarboy

may the all rest in peace. RTE are saying the driver of the Passat is the sole survivor. If he pulls through, this will truly haunt him for the rest of his life as he has to take some responsibility from what happened. While we don't know all the facts, the Passat was involved in an earlier collision just a few 100 yards before the fatal collision so it is most likely this car rather than the Corolla that was doing the dangerous driving.

As someone said above, it seems to be a culture thing that plagues Donegal and in particular the peninsula of Inishowen. This article from 5 years ago below details 25 mainly young deaths in the space of 18 months. How many more have died there since then?? What is it that the predominantly young male drivers of this area that seem to have an invincible gene when it comes to driving and road safetly? Surely they all know someone in that area who has died on the roads such is the high toll but that seems to have no bearing on creating a culture of safety. In my naivety, I would have thought that knowing someone who died would make me think twice about taking risky maneouvres? Sadly and tragically, this doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of these young drivers. You, as a safe driver would almost be afraid to take to the roads up there if this is the type of road behaviour you can potentially come across. I know this can happen anywhere in any country but the statistics for this small, sparsely populated corner of Ireland don't lie.....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/newsfeatures/2005/1015/1127148500583.html?via=rel

thirtythirty

Aidan1 wrote: »

WRT your second point, progress has been made - the media has been carefully schooled to give out the details of these things in a certain way (the word 'accident' has largely been replaced with collision, for example) - however the forensic (literally) details often have to wait until any court proceedings and an inquest is held. However the media (again) often report these proceedings in detail - there was an article on the Irishtimes website on a spate of accidents in Inishowen in which 24 or 25 people died (article was from 2005) which set out the reasons for each accident. Speed, over crowding and alcohol were pretty much constants.

Fair enough, and i know it's difficult between family respect and court reasons, but the impact of the "how it happened" is most definately lost through the time lapse.
For instance think about how many people today will be discussing this accident. But i'll bet 90% of the people talking about it today won't really care (horrible to say i know) if it's brought up again in a months time with a piece on how it happened, unless it confirms what they originally speculated and they want to show off that "they knew thats what must have happened".

That's just how I feel anyway. It's best to learn from mistakes when they're fresh in the mind.

Run_to_da_hills

ongarboy wrote: »

may the all rest in peace. RTE are saying the driver of the Passat is the sole survivor. If he pulls through, this will truly haunt him for the rest of his life as he has to take some responsibility from what happened. While we don't know all the facts, the Passat was involved in an earlier collision just a few 100 yards before the fatal collision so it is most likely this car rather than the Corolla that was doing the dangerous driving.

It will be entirely up to the Gardai and the courts to determine who was doing the dangerous driving. No one should speculate at this stage, its such a sensitive issue.

RIP to all eight that lost their lives.

Aidan1

but the impact of the "how it happened" is most definately lost through the time lapse.

In general I'd agree, people have become inured to the list of dead from RTAs, but if something is of a sufficient scale it'll transcend that, at least for a while. 8 people dying, and all of the associated pain and heartbreak, will stay with people for a long time. And the Gardai are getting some messages out already, like the type of car, the fact that it had been involved in another accident just previously, and the age and background to the Corolla driver.

homerjay2005

anybody have a breakdown of road deaths over the last few years per county?

donegal has to have the worst by some distance, even without this terrible tragedy. its a huge worry for everybody up there surely, but have a thought for the poor emergency services also who have to deal with this also time and time again.

Terrontress

In that Traffic Blues series there was a speeder in Donegal who outran the police and attempted to hide in a back road. When the Gardai caught him he lied that it was not him and was a builder working on a house. The Gardai threatened to go to the occupants of the house and seek the truth. At this point he dropped the charade. His punishment? The same speeding ticket as if he had pulled over when instructed to and nothing else.

Obviously, given the rural nature of the county, it is impossible to have Gardai on every road but the traffic enforcement seems non-existent if they ever catch up with you.

I feel for the families of the lads killed and having been a stupid 19 year old myself have been in overcrowded cars in the past. I don't know how the driver will ever live with himself if he pulls through.

AlekSmart

Donegal has to have the worst by some distance, even without this terrible tragedy. its a huge worry for everybody up there surely

Donegal`s situation is not exactly enhanced by the reading of long-running cases such as this....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/father-shocked-as-court-blocks-probe-of-young-womans-death-2253369.html

This particular case dating back to a 2001 fatal accident has some seriously out-of-sync stuff attached to it.

This particular gentleman had to engage in some serious personal investigation of the circumstances surrounding the incident and his questions largely remain stonewalled at the Official level.

Snickers Man

"This is a great tragedy. Now is not the time for insenstive rushes to judgment."

Of course not. But when is it a good time to state the bleeding obvious in bald terms? Donegal has a shocking record with regard to road accidents. Most of them involving young people. We can wring our hands and say "Oh God their poor mothers!" all we like. Let's face it, the youth of Donegal give us ample opportunity to practice.

It is clearly a cultural issue with boy-racer maniac drivers in that part of the world. Some of the contributory factors have been listed here, including the cheap availability of high-powered cars across the border and the bad state of the roads in Donegal. To which we might add the tradition of many small villages in Inishowen in particular having massive night clubs to cater for merrimakers from Derry, a legacy of Northern Ireland's former strict Sabbatarian laws which forbade alcohol on a Sunday and by extension made impossible late licenses on a Saturday night. This has meant that a culture of large numbers of young people driving to, and racing home from, out of the way night spots in Inishowen has become entrenched.

But come on guys! You can blame other people as much as you like. It's about behaviour and how to influence it. The rest of the country can only do so much and frankly, if our sympathies with the maniac drivers of Donegal was not exhausted before yesterday it is now. This has got to be the last straw. Even if it's a haystack.

The people of Donegal have got to take the bull by the horns and do something about it. If the rest of the country try to do it for you they will only be met with bleats of "Donegal is getting an unfair reputation", or "people are being unduly harsh" or "we're being treated like second class citizens".

So what could you do?
Gardai of Donegal: Next time you find some young buck travelling without insurance or with more passengers than his car has seat belts, or under the influence or just too bloody fast....put him off the road. Ignore the supplications from his friends and relatives that "ah sure he didn't mean any harm, and sure all the young people are doing it".

Mothers of Donegal: If your teenage or twenty-something sons aren't driving like responsible citizens then deprive them of your services. Don't cook for the bastards, don't wash their clothes, don't tidy their rooms, don't buy their groceries.

Young women of Donegal: Even if he looks like Brad Pitt, if some young guy drives like a maniac then make a pact with yourselves that he will never get a ride off any of you until he wises up. (This one on its own would do it)

Young men of Donegal:
Just wise up and catch yourselves on, will ya? Enough is enough.

kwinabeeste

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody have a breakdown of road deaths over the last few years per county?

donegal has to have the worst by some distance, even without this terrible tragedy. its a huge worry for everybody up there surely, but have a thought for the poor emergency services also who have to deal with this also time and time again.

Firstly - Tragic loss to all in Donegal and condolonces to their families

Secondly i was wondering the same thing.

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

Using 2006 CSO data for population

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popofeachprovcountycity2006.htm

Road Deaths as % of Population (see attached for all)

Cavan 0.0125%
Sligo 0.0115%
Donegal 0.0095%
Kerry 0.0093%

Looking at the top counties with on this analysis - they are pretty large counties with a large area and dispersed population.

ongarboy

Wow, didn't realise Kerry was up there with Donegal for fatalities. However, looking at these results, this is just for one year only which does not represent long term trends. It's the long term trend that enforces the perception of one county being more prone to road fatalities over others. I know fatalities can fluctuate from year to year for a given county (Kerry has gone from 11 road deaths one year to over 20 the next year and back down to 13 the following year so a county can be most dangerous per head of population one year to being the safest the next year depending on fluctuation. I wonder how Donegal fares overall over the last 20 years.

I don't want this statistical analysis to take away from the awfulness of what has just happened though. 8 lives have been lost in one go and there are loved ones who will spend the rest of their lives in mourning over it. How sad and my heartfelt sympathies to those left behind.

corktina

How sad....we all did daft things when we were young...most of us got away with it....RIP My sympathy to the families and friends iof the all the deceased.

kwinabeeste

ongarboy wrote: »

Wow, didn't realise Kerry was up there with Donegal for fatalities. However, looking at these results, this is just for one year only which does not represent long term trends. It's the long term trend that enforces the perception of one county being more prone to road fatalities over others. I know fatalities can fluctuate from year to year for a given county (Kerry has gone from 11 road deaths one year to over 20 the next year and back down to 13 the following year so a county can be most dangerous per head of population one year to being the safest the next year depending on fluctuation. I wonder how Donegal fares overall over the last 20 years.

I don't want this statistical analysis to take away from the awfulness of what has just happened though. 8 lives have been lost in one go and there are loved ones who will spend the rest of their lives in mourning over it. How sad and my heartfelt sympathies to those left behind.

+1 on not wanting to turn this into a statistical analysis. Many of the areas with high fatalites per population are rural with poor roads and poor public transport/taxis compared to larger provincial towns and cities

Was looking for more data but couldn't find much on a quick search. Will try to look later on for more information on past information.

Stark

corktina wrote: »

How sad....we all did daft things when we were young...most of us got away with it....RIP My sympathy to the families and friends iof the all the deceased.

Not going to say that I didn't do stupid things like getting into overloaded cars when I was young as well, but I'd at least like to think I would have had the common decency to stop at the scene after being in an accident with someone rather than speeding off in search of another innocent victim to go play bumper cars with.

celticbest

corktina wrote: »

How sad....we all did daft things when we were young...most of us got away with it....RIP My sympathy to the families and friends iof the all the deceased.

+1, RIP

homerjay2005

is there anywhere we can get a full record say over 5 years of fatalities per county?

foggy_lad

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody have a breakdown of road deaths over the last few years per county?

donegal has to have the worst by some distance, even without this terrible tragedy. its a huge worry for everybody up there surely, but have a thought for the poor emergency services also who have to deal with this also time and time again.

in places like Donegal and Kerry and other more remote counties the response times of emergency services are much greater due to the distances and also due to accidents happening and not "reported" for some time on more rural roads.

a tragedy but as already posted all of Donegal has to answer for this due attitudes to guards and traffic laws which are not seen as real laws.

nlgbbbblth

The full facts of this horrific accident need to be published and not swept under the carpet like has happened so often in the past.

It might dissuade others from trying to cram too many people into a single vehicle.

It might make people think twice about speeding.

It might just make people take a little bit more care on the roads.

I was driving a Toyota Corolla last night. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can happen to anybody.

Sponge Bob

Sorry to be blunt but this is another multiple fatality/packed car crashes with deaths in the Inishowen, not even Donegal. The Inishowen is the worst blackspot in Ireland and needs a particularly heavy enforcement of common sense, the rules of the road and punitive actions by the Traffic Corps to stop this kind of thing happening again and again.

The kind of accident that occurs rarely in almost every other part of the country seems to be all to regular in the Inishowen. Unremarkably so.

When I heard 8 people were dead in a car crash I thought 'Inishowen' before I even heard it was in Donegal

In a a short time between 2004 and 2005 30 people were killed in the Inishowen in road crashes

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Family%27s+dream+of+a+new+life+snuffed+out+in+horror+car+crash.-a0142311728

That is 10% of the average annual total in the state or 5% annualised over 2 years The Inishowen has about 0.75% of the population of the state. It should statistically account for at most 2 deaths a year and maybe 3.

More

http://www.inishowennews.com/08RedVerdict.htm

http://www.derryjournal.com/inishowen/Garda-Ombudsman-probe--Fahan.5789819.jp

http://www.inishowennews.com/07Henderson.htm

http://www.inishowennews.com/07RTACarn.htm

and finally

http://www.inishowennews.com/08BurnfootRTC.htm

INISHOWEN'S coroner has once again appealed to young male drivers to slow down. Dr John Madden made his comments at the inquest into the death of Jonathan (Johnny) Sheerin, who was killed in a single-vehicle crash on the main Burnfoot to Muff road in the early hours of November 25, 2007.
The 21 year old from 30 Brookhill, Culmore, Derry, died instantly when the Vauxhall Cavalier car he was driving crashed into a ditch at Drumhaggart on the Birdstown Road, shortly after 4.30am. His three male passengers, Daniel Coyle, his brother James Coyle of Clar, Redcastle and Donnacha McNicholl, who all survived the horrific crash, appeared at the inquest in Carndonagh on Friday to give evidence.

and

The jury was told that all four men were thrown out of the car on impact, three onto the road and one into the bushes. Donnacha McNicholl said he assumed Johnny Sheerin wasn't drinking on the night because "he looked reasonably sober". Mr McNicholl testified that he was severely injured in the accident. He suffered broken bones, was unconscious for nearly two weeks and endured seven bleeds to the brain. The inquest also heard that the least injured was James Coyle, who was thrown into the bushes on impact. It also heard of the sterling efforts by the emergency services including ambulance personnel, NowDoc and the Gardai, to save the men's lives using CPR. The seven-person jury was told that the deceased man suffered multiple injuries to his body. The fatal injury, however, was a major fracture to the base of his skull.

Until the area is swarmed by Traffic Corps for 3-5 years and with ultra heavy enforcement we are inevitably hanging around waiting for yet another one of these stories before the end of the year. Sorry, way it is.

schemingbohemia

In relation to Spongebob's post - why was there no reference to the blood alcohol level of the deceased driver? Was it even taken at the scene of the accident?

One thing to bear in mind is that I remember reacting last year or the year before to a crash in Donegal where 5 kids were killed thinking bloody eejits, it turned out it was a middle aged drunk driver who had crashed into them and killed them, I've tried to not rush to judgement since (and fail most of the time).

Sofa King Great

A few years ago I did a project on contributory factors in road deaths. One thing we noticed was that Alcohol was very rarely mentioned as a factor. upon digging deeper it appears as though the local coroners rarely mentioned the blood alcohol level in their reports. This seemed to be out of some sort of respect for the dead.

amacachi

Sofa King Great wrote: »

A few years ago I did a project on contributory factors in road deaths. One thing we noticed was that Alcohol was very rarely mentioned as a factor. upon digging deeper it appears as though the local coroners rarely mentioned the blood alcohol level in their reports. This seemed to be out of some sort of respect for the dead.

Probably similar to suicides being ruled "death by misadventure".

Sponge Bob

I am not attributing fault except to the state and Traffic Corps that does not deploy resources to take this statistical anomaly into account.

The death and critical injury rate from idiotic behaviour in the Inishowen is just as significant as gangland killings in Limerick and deserves a special punitive enforcement regime as indeed do Limerick gangsters....which gangsters have not killed as many as the Inishowen roads have on a population weighed basis in the past decade.

Terrontress

Sofa King Great wrote: »

A few years ago I did a project on contributory factors in road deaths. One thing we noticed was that Alcohol was very rarely mentioned as a factor. upon digging deeper it appears as though the local coroners rarely mentioned the blood alcohol level in their reports. This seemed to be out of some sort of respect for the dead.

I reckon this is disrespect for the living and any future victims.

Not to say that alcohol consumption has been a contributory factor to last night's tragedy.

Ozil

Sofa King Great wrote: »

A few years ago I did a project on contributory factors in road deaths. One thing we noticed was that Alcohol was very rarely mentioned as a factor. upon digging deeper it appears as though the local coroners rarely mentioned the blood alcohol level in their reports. This seemed to be out of some sort of respect for the dead.

If you look beyond the scaremongering of the media, you will probably find alcohol has very minimal impact on most road deaths.

The coroner (in Donegal incidentally) a few months ago when they were talking about lowering the drink driving limit from 0.8mg to 0.5mg said it's a waste of time because any cases he does come across where alcohol is a contributing factor were on average 3 times over the current limit (they were roughly 2.5mg).

Implementing the current drink driving limits properly would have far more impact than lowering the limit, although that's another days discussion.

schemingbohemia

Suicide is another contributory factor to road deaths in ireland that is not properly accounted for by the coroners.

Sofa King Great

Terrontress wrote: »

I reckon this is disrespect for the living and any future victims.

I agree totally. Especially when innocent parties are involved

Sofa King Great

Ozil wrote: »

If you look beyond the scaremongering of the media, you will probably find alcohol has very minimal impact on most road deaths.

The coroner (in Donegal incidentally) a few months ago when they were talking about lowering the drink driving limit from 0.8mg to 0.5mg said it's a waste of time because any cases he does come across where alcohol is a contributing factor were on average 3 times over the current limit (they were roughly 2.5mg).

Implementing the current drink driving limits properly would have far more impact than lowering the limit, although that's another days discussion.

I think you are confusing the impact of driving with alcohol and the legal limits. They are two different things.

Fratton Fred

I was staying in Rathmullen a while back and caught the Greencastle ferry and then headed over to Buncrana for that ferry. It was one of the scariest drives ofmy life. Not only are the roads narrow and poorly maintained, in some points you even get sheep walking accross them.

i will not draw any conclusions at this stage, other than to say 8 people in one car is foolish, but there but for the grace of god.....

RIP to all those killed and thoughts and sympathies to the families involved.

FlutterinBantam

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It will be entirely up to the Gardai and the courts to determine who was doing the dangerous driving. No one should speculate at this stage, its such a sensitive issue.

RIP to all eight that lost their lives.

Indeed.:rolleyes: seems fairly obvious to me though

Christina2010

robbie_998 wrote: »

how the feck can ya fit 8 grown lads into a 5 seater car ?

sounds like a joy ride was going about.

This is why insurance cost a fecking bomb... cos of idiots like these running a muck :mad:

poor guy in the corolla.

Robbie you have obviously never made a mistake in your life otherwise you would not be so critical today. its an absolute shame that you have made a comment like that on such a tragic day in our country.
8 families have been left absolutely devestated and all you can complain about is the cost of your insurance. im sure the families involved would pay any amount of money just to have their loved ones back for just one minute. you should be ashamed of yourself.

robbie_998

Christina2010 wrote: »

Robbie you have obviously never made a mistake in your life otherwise you would not be so critical today. its an absolute shame that you have made a comment like that on such a tragic day in our country.
8 families have been left absolutely devestated and all you can complain about is the cost of your insurance. im sure the families involved would pay any amount of money just to have their loved ones back for just one minute. you should be ashamed of yourself.

I have the upmost respect for the 60 year old man in the corolla on his own bit the lads in the passat, well it was quite clear what they were up to

I think others in this thread have made it perfectly clear what should be done...

The full facts of this horrific accident need to be published and not swept under the carpet like has happened so often in the past.

It might dissuade others from trying to cram too many people into a single vehicle.

It might make people think twice about speeding.

It might just make people take a little bit more care on the roads.

I was driving a Toyota Corolla last night. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can happen to anybody.

amacachi

If the driver survives I trust he'll have the full force of the law brought upon him.

FlutterinBantam

Christina2010 wrote: »

Robbie you have obviously never made a mistake in your life otherwise you would not be so critical today. its an absolute shame that you have made a comment like that on such a tragic day in our country.
8 families have been left absolutely devestated and all you can complain about is the cost of your insurance. im sure the families involved would pay any amount of money just to have their loved ones back for just one minute. you should be ashamed of yourself.

Sorry Christina, no he shouldn't.

People need to tackle this stuff head on, and not beat around the bush.

Of course everyone has tremendous sympathy for those bereaved, but trying to say that something is not is not a problem, when to everybody else, it patently is, is assinine in the extreme.

Instead of wringing their hands and ollogoning ,people up there need to get together and sort out this shit.

There is a culture of madman driving on the Fanad!!!


That's fact, spend some time trying to sort it out rather than blaming others for it ok?

homer simpson

foggy_lad wrote: »

a tragedy but as already posted all of Donegal has to answer for this due attitudes to guards and traffic laws which are not seen as real laws.

Right! enough is enough, i have heard since i got up this morning across various forums with people talking about how the its because of donegal people disregarding the law ect....what a load of bull!

We follow the same laws as everyone else who lives in the republic of ireland, that includes traffic laws, i can also assure you that i have come across more gardai checkpoints / speedchecks in donegal than in any other part of ireland (i do about 40000 - 50000 miles per year in my car), some people seem to think that native donegal folk are a law onto themselves, all i will say to this is go away and cop on! :rolleyes:

Slunk

Jus on RTE news now. You can see the renault that the passsat "clipped" .Judging by the damage it more than clipped it. Why did they not stop at this scene?

I think they should show whats left of the passat too and maybe it might get the point across to some people.

Calina

Mod note.

I'm not sure this thread properly belongs here and will consult with Motors about possibly sending it over to them.

Meanwhile, it would be nice if you all tried to find a balance that didn't result in me getting a bunch of reported posts. Certain matters are worthy of discussion here but if you could do it in a constructive manner that would help immensely.

Regards,

Calina.

FlutterinBantam

homer_simpson wrote: »

Right! enough is enough, i have heard since i got up this morning across various forums with people talking about how the its because of donegal people disregarding the law ect....what a load of bull!

We follow the same laws as everyone else who lives in the republic of ireland, that includes traffic laws, i can also assure you that i have come across more gardai checkpoints / speedchecks in donegal than in any other part of ireland (i do about 40000 - 50000 miles per year in my car), some people seem to think that native donegal folk are a law onto themselves, all i will say to this is go away and cop on! :rolleyes:

So you totally ignore past accidents and history and say everything in the garden is rosy.

Check out the stats. horse.

It's there in black and white.

lilgirl24

agree with slunk the photos of the cars should be made available to the media,i realise this may be hard for the families but people need to see the type of damage that is caused in crashes like these

rip to all

K-9

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Sorry Christina, no he shouldn't.

People need to tackle this stuff head on, and not beat around the bush.

Of course everyone has tremendous sympathy for those bereaved, but trying to say that something is not is not a problem, when to everybody else, it patently is, is assinine in the extreme.

Instead of wringing their hands and ollogoning ,people up there need to get together and sort out this shit.

There is a culture of madman driving on the Fanad!!!


That's fact, spend some time trying to sort it out rather than blaming others for it ok?

I'm sure everybody is aware of the problems involved and Donegal or Inishowen has a high fatality rate, like some other blackspot counties.

FlutterinBantam

K-9 wrote: »

I'm sure everybody is aware of the problems involved and Donegal or Inishowen has a high fatality rate, like some other blackspot counties.

The issue is: what are they doing about it.

homer simpson

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

So you totally ignore past accidents and history and say everything in the garden is rosy.

Check out the stats. horse.

It's there in black and white.

Stop your spamming!!!! most of your posts concist of one liners (3 - 10 words) in an attempt to get a rise out of people....

And stop taking what im sayong out of context, i wasnt commenting on accidents i was commenting on peole saying things like "all donegal people are responsable for the accident", " No donegal people follow the law and the traffic laws", " all donegal drivers are boy racers and motorsport fans" do you agree with all of the above statements??? thats what im refearing to here...and answer the question, do you agree with the above statements, as i've noticed in another thread you have a good way of avoiding questions, lol, you'd make a good policition (or however you spell it)


On accidents yes the majority of them are avoidable but its not isolated to Donegal this applies to almost all accidents! Something does need to be done but if your all getting on high horses calling for thing to be done, look at the stats for the rest of europe, you'll find we are up to the 7th safest in the EU, go complain to the EU and look for something to be done, cos i agree something has to be done, but singling out all donegal people is wrong is it not?