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Irish Rail Journeys - Myth & Reality
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12-07-2010 9:41am#1Well yet another new thread and this time let's try and keep it just to descriptions of journeys by Irish Rail or NIR - dates/times and illustrated if possible. And what better way to start off than with an epic Craig Doyle Irish Rail TV ad.
Friday 9th July, 2010
07.50 Inter-city railcar ex.Rosslare Harbour - I joined at Enniscorthy (08.35) with my six year old.
Three piece railcar which was well filled.
Sat in Coach A at a table.
It wasn't long before my six year old wanted a pee - despited being emptied before we left the house such is my dislike of public (especially train toilets). The toilet cubicle smelt awful and was tiny but worse still there was no water in the taps! I also noted the cunning placement of the toilet flush button just where some messy punters are like to spray with....Great design. Why could CIE not have specified that the toilet cubicle be designed with fully grown adults in mind as well as children?
Pleasant enough journey as there is little that CIE/IE can do to destroy the beauty of the Garden of Ireland. Arriving at Pearse the ticket barriers, as usual, would not accept my Enniscorthy booking office issued tickets and we had to resort to following another passenger out who clearly thought we were fare dodgers!
We returned by the 13.30 ex.Connolly (Coach
13.39 the 3-piece ICR arrived at the crowded platform and appeared to have been delayed by several empty stock movements - as always the Rosslare train receives low priority treatment. No PA announcement until the train arrived at the platform and no apology for the delay. As usual no visible staff presence on any of platforms 5/7 - all too busy hiding in the staff rooms on No.5. I suspect.
There were people standing by the time we arrived at Pearse and my 'fare-paying' six year old had to move on to my lap. We departed Dun Laoghaire 12 minutes late and the poison truck tea trolley turned back having on reaching Coach B form Coach A. An announcement on the PA informed us that it would be operating from Coach A - but no reason given for its non-operation throughout the train. There was no ticket checking on the return trip. No further visits were made to the loo as my son had been told to cross his legs on pain of death. We were late into Enniscorthy but I didn't note the time. If I had been on my own I probably would have got the cheaper, more frequent BE bus but with kids in tow toilet access is crucial in planning an uneventful journey.
I will take pics on my next trip - either today or on the last train from Waterford to Rosslare on the 21st July. Good old CIE - I love them really.
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I travelled Brussels > Luxembourg (3hrs-ish) last month and there wasn't a refreshment trolley in sight. My bag of Oatfield Emerald Caramels sustained me.
I can certainly empathise about the toilet issues though - one of the downsides of travelling with kids is their need to use often unsuitable toilets that seem to have been previously used by pigs (and often only minutes after having proclaimed no need to use more suitable ones).
The Belgian train SUCK in fairness. The Dutch and German Intercity trains are much much better. Germans win with the ICE imo
280km/h without spilling me tea 0 -
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As long as the aircon is working!keithclancy wrote: »The Belgian train SUCK in fairness. The Dutch and German Intercity trains are much much better. Germans win with the ICE imo 280km/h without spilling me tea 0 -
German trains are clean. The ICE is fast. It has its limitations. On an ICE Munich to Frankfurt, the displayed speed was 250 km/hour.keithclancy wrote: »The Belgian train SUCK in fairness. The Dutch and German Intercity trains are much much better. Germans win with the ICE imo 280km/h without spilling me tea
On an ICE train from Ulm to Munich its speed was only 110 km/hour. This is due to the track, rail works, many other trains using the track.
That day it was quicker and less stressing than taking the A8 Autobahn. It was a comfortable, clean train.
In July it was 35 C+ in Germany. In an ICE train the air conditioning was broke down. Some persons were hospitalised.As long as the aircon is working!
Today this is no longer a problem. It's 14 C and raining.
The main point of the post is correct. The designers of the AC system overlooked that it can occasionally be 35 C+ in Germany.
The ICE trains are a good realisation of a good concept. However it has some limitations.
Another limitation is that last year some trains were found to have cracks in their axels. Thus speed reduction for trains. Trains were sent to the garage for testing. AFAIK most of these axles were gradually repaired.
As an aside, maybe off topic. Some days after that "Air conditioning" incident I was at Munich Airport. A former board menber of the Deutsche Bahn (German Rail) was flying also. We joked among ourselves why he did not go by train.0 -
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Had the dubious pleasure of travelling from Enniscorthy to Connolly and back today and while the outward journey was uneventful the return was back to the usually slap dash CIE/IE effort. The 18.30 departure from Connolly (which arrived Connolly from Rosslare at 17.10) and sat at Platform 5 until departure. During that time no attempt was made to clean or water the train and it left strewn with rubbish and with people standing. No ticket checker was on the train for the return journey which means the sole IE staff member aboard was the driver.
Hard to capture the scene properly in a single photograph but almost every table and a lot of the floor was like this pic - what would Craig Doyle make of that? :rolleyes:
I also noticed that Platform 4 at Connolly is being resurfaced with non-slip (?) granite type paving and two points arise from this expensive undertaking:
1) Why was the importance of a non-slip surface not kept in mind when the relatively recent tiling job was done on the same platform?
2) Mr. Fearn - if you're reading this - please get a stock of spare slabs so that if you have breakages you can fix them properly, not the usual Mickey Mouse effort!0 -
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given the magnet for claims that a semistate would be, I would think nonslip surfaces would be a must everywhere in the IE system.
And this wasn't the case when the relatively recent tiling job was done? CIE has been a magnet for claims for decades so who authorised the daft tiling job?
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What I meant was - it should be, but plainly it isn't, not that I claim any knowledge of CIE SOP.Judgement Day wrote: »And this wasn't the case when the relatively recent tiling job was done? CIE has been a magnet for claims for decades so who authorised the daft tiling job?
I think it's fair to say there are people who will litter regardless but a lot more who are loath to litter a clean area. If IE dispatch a dirty train, bad will go to worse.0 -
On my recent half-hearted 'attempt' to become a trainspotter again by travelling to Dunboyne on the 1st day - which I failed to do - I had reason to visit "the Hole" aka Connolly station. And, surprise, surprise the new platform surface noted being installed on August 8th is already proving unserviceable - at least from an aesthetic point of view - its highly porus surface is dirty already. Chewing gum, vomit (?) stains and oil marks are everywhere - a fool could have forseen this but not in Irish Rail!
Incidentally, on the day that I travelled neither the booking clerk/depotman at Enniscorthy or the travelling ticket checker had heard of the Dunboyne reopening that day. That is the extent of CIE/IE management disfunction.
I decided that my love of rugby was far greater than my waning interest in trains and aborted my Dunboyne expedition in order to get back home in time to watch the Leinster/Glasgow game. Hating Connolly as I do, I caught the DART that runs ahead of the lunchtime Rosslare train to Greystones where I was lucky (?) enough to be able to photograph 083 on a ballast train while waiting for the Rosslare train. Here it is especially for Lord Lucan, Steam Engine and Cookie Monster.
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DWCommuter wrote: »Losty doesn't get what you are trying to prove, so I'll explain.
DB and BE PROs are not well known. Barry Kenny is well known because he spends most of his media time defending IE against legitimate complaints. His media time is all about defending. If IE were a half decent operator, we wouldn't hear Barry kenny on the radio or read his pitiful responses in the newspapers. (the one above is so easily challenged that Im surprised he had the balls to write it in the first place.:D)
DB and BE are less problematic therefore we don't hear their PROs as much.
QED.
There is another good reason why Barry Kenny appears on the media as much as he does; media desks know that you will facilitate them with copy and/or air time and he answers questions that people want answers to, even if you hold him in disdain (As if he cares ). But it may have escaped you that a PR manager in any company does have to handle complaints and often in a public setting the odd time :rolleyes:
Also, it's not right to say that DB and BE are not without problems. A rail delay (Like say the near escape in Galway this week) may block up the line and it can be headline news as it affects thousands of people at times; how often would you expect to hear people being interested in a route 27 running late or a road being closed leading to wholesale delays? Snow aside (When Cliona never seemed to not be on some station), it's not of massive concern to people as a whole.0 -
Losty Dublin wrote: »There is another good reason why Barry Kenny appears on the media as much as he does; media desks know that you will facilitate them with copy and/or air time and he answers questions that people want answers to, even if you hold him in disdain (As if he cares ). But it may have escaped you that a PR manager in any company does have to handle complaints and often in a public setting the odd time :rolleyes:
Also, it's not right to say that DB and BE are not without problems. A rail delay (Like say the near escape in Galway this week) may block up the line and it can be headline news as it affects thousands of people at times; how often would you expect to hear people being interested in a route 27 running late or a road being closed leading to wholesale delays? Snow aside (When Cliona never seemed to not be on some station), it's not of massive concern to people as a whole.
Look I know its not easy being a supporter of one of the most disliked semi-states in Ireland. I understand you are in a minority and you enjoy defending the company. However that does not make critics the spawn of the devil or enemies so there's really no need for the "as if he cares" references to Barry Kenny and assumption that I hold him "in disdain". I don't hold Barry Kenny in any kind of disdain. I've met him on numerous occasions. I've debated on radio with him and anything I say here about him I would or perhaps have said to his face or in writing directly to him over the years. I understand completely that his job is to defend Irish Rail. I understand that he will resort to any kind of spin to defend the company as that is what his job entails.
But he is well known in the media because Irish Rail are the most problematic and heavily criticised entity within the CIE group. Furthermore I did not say that DB or BE were "without problems". I clearly said they were "less problematic".But it may have escaped you that a PR manager in any company does have to handle complaints and often in a public setting the odd time :rolleyes:
It may have escaped you that you have, in the above quote, accepted the point I'm making. (albeit inadvertently) So I say it again. He is the most well known PR person within the CIE group because Irish Rail are the most heavily criticised company within the group. (and not unfairly in the vast majority of cases) A dog in the street will have heard of Barry Kenny, but maybe not the equivalent person in DB or BE. There is no denying this. Its the smallest transport network within the group and while I accept that a late train etc. has a more specific impact on a rail network, complaints against Irish Rail tend to be far more varied than the example you quoted. Regrettably some passengers are still unhappy despite the investment.
If I may stray off topic for a bit and possibly cover some issues that have caused problems on this forum.....
I'm very pro railway, but very disheartened by the way our railway is run (and I fully understand Government involvement) and it does disappoint me to see so many failings being accepted by people and then a critic like myself being subjected to barbs. (as if Im some crazed anti CIE nutjob. BOLLOX!) In fact its like an attempt to discredit me because I'm critical and speak my mind when in actual fact I'm pretty calculated in what I say. What saddens me though is how personal some people here take any criticism of CIE. I don't believe Im unfairly critical of the company. I have praised them in the media on many occasions for certain things. But in my opinion many rail threads on this forum get heated because either CIE staff or some enthusiasts cannot and will not consider the failings of the company and refuse to accept that others have a different view of the company. After 8 years of experience with campaigns, politics, enthusiasts and Irish Rail themselves, I am of the opinion that our rail network is ****ed in the long term. Sorry for being so blunt.
There is no unity. Some enthusiasts cannot let go of their admiration for the company (although I've been recently heartened to see many enthusiasts realise that Irish Rail are not necessarily a properly functioning entity) and people like me are branded unwarranted, crazy, over zealous etc. etc. I look at the situation in a broader and less emotional sense. I run a business and if I ran it the way Irish Rail run theirs, I'd be out of business.
Im not an enemy or some kind of unapproachable ogre that despises all pro railway people and issues. I have issues with certain enthusiasts and how they view things. They have issues with me.I have issues with organisations like the IRRS, RUI etc. Thats life! I have been OTT in the past, but I'd like to think that I can express these issues here without being branded as disruptive and bringing chaos to the forum. If I was to report every little post that annoyed me then I wouldn't have time to think! So can the enthusiasts here try to understand people like me? I love railways and have a lot of knowledge of them, but I'm not an enthusiast. The roar of a GM doesn't do it for me. I see railways as effective transport modes run for the benefit of customers by a company that wants to maximise its potential and works on behalf of the customer. I don't have to be friendly with Joe the station master in any station so I can take pics or video. I don't look up to the rail operator as some kind of effigy. With me its basic and in the interests of the people that use the railways and couldn't give a toss about signalling. Its about a shared accountability between operator and customer. Two sides to every story.
So can the likes of myself and enthusiasts finally find some middle ground and debate on the basis that in this life we must respectfully accept that we don't all think alike and both sides have something to learn?0 -
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I was living in Northern Spain for the last while and I have to say that the RENFE long distance services are just fantastic by any standards. Irish Rail could learn a lot from them. Many of the differences were simply touches of customer service.
The service from Madrid to Pamplona is operated using an mid-speed gauge-changing, tilting "Alvia" train, which is also built by CAF (some are also built by Talgo), similar but brighter looking to the Cork train and a good bit faster (does up to 250km/h)
The trip takes 3:45 mins, not particularly fast as it runs over a mix of high-speed lines and then goes back onto low speed lines (has to change gauge mid-route)
The positives:
Standard class:
100% reserved seating.
In-seat audio + a movie shown on overhead displays on the ceiling. They handout disposable headphones and sweets at the start of the trip.
Interior : Clean, bright, very modern.
Trolly service and free nuts handed out en route.
VERY well supervised on board at all times.
There were a selection of newspapers and magazines on the trolley too.
The negatives:
The toilets weren't emptied correctly and en route and stank the whole train out which was pretty disgusting. They're the same design as Irish Rail's on the Cork-Dublin train.
Preferente / First class (tried on a different occasion) - WOW!
Wide seat, with socket for laptop in base.
In-seat audio + movie.
Complementary choice of newspapers.
Journey started: Coffee / tea / hot chocolate served.
An hour into the journey, sandwiches served.
A little later - complementary wine / beer / soft drink or tea/coffee.
A light meal served.
Heated, lemon fragranced towels distributed.
More coffee / tea.
A guy walked through the carriage with a tray of Ferrro Rocher !!
This train isn't particularly fast by Spanish standards (because it operates most of the journey over old 1600mm track and only hits top speed on the AVE lines). The true AVE services run at up to 350km/h on some routes e.g. Madrid to Alacante is done in 95 mins!
However, because it doesn't offer ultra high speed, it offers a level of business class comfort that would wipe the floor with anything else i.e. driving, flying and absolutely light years ahead of taking the bus.
Business people use the service because it's comfortable, reliable and it always has the same level of service available.
If you need to work on your way to Madrid or Barcelona, it's a nice, comfortable place to work from.
Irish Rail absolutely needs to get that level of consistency and quality of service onto its Cork-Dublin route in particular, but also on to Dublin - Galway.
These services cannot compete with motorway speeds so they have to compete on quality of service, otherwise, they might as well just forget it.
El Patito - 250km/h hybrid gauge shifting train from Talgo.
Also, those Alvia trains typically serve areas with low density population e.g. the Euskadi/Basque Country, Navarra, Cantabria etc in the North of Spain which are regions that are VERY similar to Ireland in soo many ways! (as you can see from the shot above!). In some cases, they operate over single track lines etc etc. that wouldn't be too different to the lines to Galway or into Kerry. They are serving cities of similar size to Dublin, Cork, or Belfast with small towns as intermediate stops. Again, pretty much identical to Ireland's setup.
It's quite a nice system though as it can operate at slow / regular speeds on older 1600mm lines, and tilt to handle the bends/curves and then crank it up to high speed (250km/h) on purpose-built standard gauge AVE lines.
I'm not saying that RENFE's perfect, it has the odd glitch here and there, but CIE could learn soooo much!
Also, I do not understand why IE didn't purchase off-the-shelf tilting DMUs. They exist and are in use all over Europe and would have shaved a good few minutes off journey times on many of our lines!
We need to look at best practice in Europe in places that are similar to Ireland. I find there's a lot of comparisons done with TGV/ICE/AVE etc which can only really work when linking large population centres / along big population corridors typically serving cities with well >2 million in their hinterlands i.e. twice the size of Dublin at minimum.
IE and CIE never make ANY sense to me!0 -
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