Louth Vs Meath Aftermath - ***READ MOD WARNING IN OP***

20 Times 20 Times

***MOD NOTE - READ THE THREAD RULES HERE BEFORE POSTING***

Come over to the forum to make a few comments and read a couple of people opinions on the match and find a sea of locked threads and reported posts. Should people be angry ? Yes ! Was the referee wrong ? Yes ! This should be up for discussion and not hidden behind a closed thread , a warned post and threats !

The difference with the GAA and the soccer is that we can have an open discussion and a few pints after a terrible decision like today.

The real question is , will the GAA on Monday ( today ) when the referee report is submitted call for a reply ?

The game Itself , I was so disappointed that Louth didnt take their chances to win the game in the second half and not leave it to a disgraceful decision like this.

Sparks43

In all honesty quite a fair few of the (Louth fans?) wee county were well tanked up before the game

the attitude from some of them was bang out of order even as a dublin man myself(who hates the dublin board) i would much rather have 200 dublin scroats drinking as opposed to 200 of louth

if this goes to replay im taking the day off tbh

femur61

First the bankers and now referees!

oneillMan999

Lock this thread!! its gettin outta control!!! :rolleyes:

they cant have a replay, it would make a mockery of the system, even tho they deserve it..

good luck to them in the qualifiers..

corny

They definitely don't deserve it. In sport sometimes **** happens, sometimes you don't get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't get what you deserve. So what? Dust yourself down and come back the next day. If you were to retrospectively referee every game they'd all go to a replay ffs. Mistakes are bound to be part of an amateur game. Dramatic and disappointing as it was my advice to the Louth supporters is man up and take it on the chin. To the animals that attacked the referee i can only hope they're banned from anything connected with GAA.

bamboozle

i was a neutral at the game and i've never seen an atmostphere like it, the amount of lads and girls drinking cans before the match on their way to Croke Park was unreal, the atmostphere during the game was great but bordering on boorish,
the attitude of the Louth players once they got their goal was disgraceful, their no 13 got sent off for a rugby tackle off the ball, in the final few minutes when Meath had free kicks louth players were getting the ball and hoofing it away to waste time when the ref was not looking, at this point the ref had lost control of the game, when he caught one lad hoofing the ball away he should have marched the free forward but he seemed frazzled.
It should never have been a goal and for the genuine Louth fans it must be hard to take, but their team missed so many guilt edged chances during the game the players on the pitch have to appreciate they had enough chances to win comfortably.

the scenes afterwards were a disgrace and i feel sorry for the genuine Louth fans who must be very embarrassed by the carry on of a minority.

As an aside Meath were really poor and deserved to be well beaten.

buck65

It's really up to Meath now though?
As a Clareman and the way we were shafted in 98 I feel sorry for Louth. Whatever about the boorishness of the fans and the disgraceful scenes at the end to see a title lost by utter incompetent refereeing is the worst part.
The attack on the ref has cost Louth alot of sympathy though and a replay seems unlikely.

CiaranC

Sarge wrote: »

The difference with the GAA and the soccer is that we can have an open discussion and a few pints after a terrible decision like today.

You just cant help yourselves, can you?

GAA fans assaulting officials and its a chance to have a go at "soccer". :rolleyes:

Daysha

Right, this is obviously a major event and quite a serious incident for the GAA, so this deserves a genuine discussion. It will remain open on a temporary basis while under strict review by myself and the other mods. It's a new day and I'd like to think people have calmed down a bit so with a new thread and some clearly laid-out rules we shouldn't have any problems.. Before we start...

ANY personal abuse of the referees, umpires, players, other posters or anybody else covered in the forum charter will find themselves earning an instant one week ban
We don't care about the posters history or anything, there are no second chances anymore. If coming down hard is the only way to get a genuine debate going on the match then so be it.

Off-topic posts will be deleted and the posters dealt with.
It's very easy, just talk about the topic in hand and don't get into personal slagging matches.

Any unfounded rumours regarding players or fans without providing the necessary links will be deleted. Simple as.

See that button? Please use it. It helps the thread and it helps us. Rather than getting into back-seat modding or troll feeding just report the post and we will deal with it.

Have a problem with a mod decision? Send us a PM.

Thanks for reading.

buck65

CiaranC wrote: »

You just cant help yourselves, can you?

GAA fans assaulting officials and its a chance to have a go at "soccer". :rolleyes:

True. Surely comparisons to other specific sports are redundant in this discussion? This could have happened in soccer, hurling, rugby or any team game. Why not keep it on topic indeed.

pazza

If Seamus Kenny had scored the goal rather than it being blocked, would there be outcry for a replay because Joe Sheridan was in the square before the ball?

I am not for one minute saying that the goal should have stood - IMO it was a free out, but just curious as to where the line should be drawn? We can always look at decisions - and have to take them in the cold light of day, e.g. Kerry for the 5-in-a-row, Seamus Darby pushed Tommy Doyle for the goal, should Offaly not have offered a replay. Dangerous grounds...

Royal Seahawk

The reason the ref played so much extra time was because of JP Rooney kicking the ball away 3 times from a Meath man prior to Meath free in injury time when Louth were a point up.
Only for this display of actual cheating Louth would have won. So whats goes around comes around I guess.

lugha

corny wrote: »

They definitely don't deserve it. In sport sometimes **** happens, sometimes you don't get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't get what you deserve. So what? Dust yourself down and come back the next day. If you were to retrospectively referee every game they'd all go to a replay ffs. Mistakes are bound to be part of an amateur game. Dramatic and disappointing as it was my advice to the Louth supporters is man up and take it on the chin. To the animals that attacked the referee i can only hope they're banned from anything connected with GAA.

Regrettably for Louth, I have to agree. You could barely go through a full GAA match without finding at least one refereeing error which led to a score. It’s harsh when you are on the receiving end but I don’t like the idea (in any field game) that the result would not be definitely decided at full time. (Imagine if you could not celebrate a victory as you had to wait for some com-mit-teeee to sit the next day to decide if the result should stand! :eek:)
The focus should be on trying to reduce the risk of refereeing error. And it is bizarre given that soccer has experimented with an idea (stolen from GAA :P) of having an official solely monitoring the goalmouth that such incidents arise when we have TWO officials assigned to this task. I think if you are going to have umpires, they should at least be referees (at some level) and have clearly defined roles, possibly different. I.e. one assesses if the square ball rule is broken, the other decides if the ball legally crosses the goal line etc. I think the reason the ref in this case didn’t seriously consult them was because he determined, probably correctly, that he as in inter-county referee was better qualified to make the call.

Anyway at it stands, Louth can have a genuine sense of grievance which a replay would remove. The uncertainly in all sport is part of its beauty, but it is a virtual truism in GAA that the underdog / novice NEVER wins the replay .

Pal

The referee made a mistake.
It happens in sport.
Remember France v Ireland.
Match is over.
Meath won.
End.

AudreyHepburn

The game itself was exciting, if a little dirty in places, but the behaviour of some (note I say SOME not ALL) Louth fans afterword is was an absolute disgrace!

Ok the referee made a bad call but he didn't deserve to assaulted the way he was by grown men who should know better. Louth fans have every right to be annoyed, the goal was clearly illegal but nothing justifies the way they behaved.

I hope the other Louth supporters are ashamed.

This is exactly why no supporters should be allowed onto the pitch at the end of matches.

Dots1982

I think on balance Louth do deserve a replay, its up to Meath to offer, this BS about the referee's report is a red herring, doesn't make a difference really what the Ref writes, the GAA cannot force Meath into a replay because the game is over. It would be good for Meath in the longterm to offer a replay as they could bank a lot of goodwill over it. Isn't it better to have the whole country respect you for years to come for sportsmanship then be on the record books for winning a tainted Leinster. Finally as I've said in my other posts about this, Louth got about 1-3 from wrong calls made by that terrible ref so Louth should remember this.

A thread could be started about the only decent GAA refs which I would list as David Coldrick, Mcenaney although his handing of the Leinster final last year still rankles and maybe the guy White. All the rest are terrible respecially Geroid O'Canamha.

Mental_Legend

People saying that Louth should just be awarded the Leinster title are clearly deluded. What happened to the handful of points Louth got as a result of dodgy refereeing decisions, aswell as their goal? If you were to go back and review and strip both teams of controversial points and goals then Meath still would have won. If a replay is given for this match, then every team who loses a game will want a replay.

Anthony Walsh

buck65 wrote: »

It's really up to Meath now though?
As a Clareman and the way we were shafted in 98 I feel sorry for Louth. Whatever about the boorishness of the fans and the disgraceful scenes at the end to see a title lost by utter incompetent refereeing is the worst part.
The attack on the ref has cost Louth alot of sympathy though and a replay seems unlikely.

Thats was my point exactly, I can completely understand their grief but I think any chance of a replay (which in my opinion the GAA love) because of there hooligan behavour. It's a pity that on such a big sporting day that it was ruined by something like this.

mal1

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The game itself was exciting, if a little dirty in places, but the behaviour of some (note I say SOME not ALL) Louth fans afterword is was an absolute disgrace!

Ok the referee made a bad call but he didn't deserve to assaulted the way he was by grown men who should know better. Louth fans have every right to be annoyed, the goal was clearly illegal but nothing justifies the way they behaved.

I hope the other Louth supporters are ashamed.

This is exactly why no supporters should be allowed onto the pitch at the end of matches.

Are you not contradicting yourself? You're stressing that that SOME of the Louth supporters behaved badly, but also saying that the other Louth Supporters should be ashamed. Why?

blackbelt

Right,

Just to clarify a few things and shed some light on the subject.There are a few mistruths and misperceptions going on here about whose fault it is.

Firstly,the square ball is a matter for the referee to decide.The umpire has no authority to disallow a point or goal if it is a square ball.Secondly,the umpire's duties are to signal for points,goals,wides,45/65s and inform the referee of any off the ball jostling,fighting etc.

The umpire does not run onto the pitch to tell the referee if there was a technical foul before a score.However,the referee has to be sure and on consulting his umpire if there is any doubt,he could have overruled a score.I blame the refere in this case.He didn't look up for it and seemed quite a novice for this standard.He had his mind made up that it was a goal and I don't think he consulted with the umpire.It seems he went to the umpire and told him to raise the flag.

As for Meath,their first Leinster in 9 years and they have undeservedly taken a cheap win.I can't say I blame Joe Sheridan to the degree in which a person can blame Thierry Henry.I'm open to the idea that he scored unfairly in chaotic situation where he was surrounded in the goalmouth area scrambling for a goal.Desperation can lead a player to make bad mistakes.

As for the Louth fans who assaulted the referee,I hope they get lifetime bans from any GAA venue and charged by the Gardai.Assault is assault and people seem to think if it happens on a pitch it is ok.

I'm in two minds about whether a replay should go ahead.I think the morons after the final whistle may have ruined that chance.I don't think the Meath County Board wil favour a replay as a result of Mark Ward getting assaulted too.

AudreyHepburn

mal1 wrote: »

Are you not contradicting yourself? You're stressing that that SOME of the Louth supporters behaved badly, but also saying that the other Louth Supporters should be ashamed. Why?

I'm saying that those Louth fans who behaving normally and decently should be ashamed to associated with the louts who attacked the referee.

How is that a contradiction

Royal Seahawk

Hard luck Louth.
<snip>

Dools2007

Feel sorry for the Louth fans (and by this, I mean the true Louth fans and not the idiots that stormed the field afterwards)

Great credit here must go to both the Louth manager and the players who at the end, despite how the match ended, did their best in protecting the ref from the clowns who ran onto the field.

As for calls for a replay, while I agree that Louth deserve a replay, I agree with the other posters who say that it is not feasible. If Louth get a replay, then where do we draw the line on dodgy refs decisions and who is entitled / not entitled to a replay.

For example, if a penalty was wrongly given in the first minute of a game which was won by a point, then do the team that conceded the penalty deserve a replay? There is unfortunately, always incorrect calls in a game and it was just the timing of this one and what was at stake which has given it greater significance.

The big issue here is the quality of the referee (and this is not a personal attack at the man as I realise that the refs do this voluntary) but why he didn't at least consult with his umpires I will never know. He was at least 20 yards away from the play and had two umpires standing three yards away so surely, you would imagine, given that the title decided on his decision, that he would at least have had a chat with them to see if any foul was committed.

The umpires didn't put up the flags straightaway which suggested that they did not think it was a goal, neither did either of them put up their hand for a free out which suggests they didn't know the rule fully on a ball being thrown into the net.

I reckon that this ref should not get another game in the Championship this year and possibly even next year.

Either way, I think that Louth have to just accept that the game is now lost (fairly or not) and move on and hopefully come through the qualifiers even though I would imagine a good run in the qualifiers will never match the ecstasy of winning a Leinster on your first appearance in the final in 50 years.

Inquitus

The GAA is multi million euro sport, why is it refereed by overweight unfit old men who generally get as much wrong as they do right?

blackbelt

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Hard luck Louth.
<snip>

I wouldn't go doing that Royal Seahawk.I have 50 reported posts in my email account.I don't want anymore.

mal1

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm saying that those Louth fans who behaving normally and decently should be ashamed to associated with the louts who attacked the referee.

How is that a contradiction

I just don't agree with your use of ashamed. To me, 'to be ashamed' is something personal regarding actions of the individual but not of others. I think the 'other' Louth supporters may feel disappointed and angry but they shouldn't be made feel ashamed about actions of thugs who are simply wearing the same coloured shirts or from the same county.

I have some Muslim friends, should they feel ashamed that some fundamental nutter blew up 64 innocent people in Uganda during the World Cup final last night. I think not. Disappointed, yes! Their image is yet again tarnished but I would never wish to make them feel ashamed.

Don't be so unfair.

SantryRed

At the end of the day Louth shouldn't get a replay.

If you look at some of the frees they were given throughout the game you'd think the referee had money on Louth winning. Louth were getting all the 50/50 calls throughout the game. It is a dangerous, dangerous precedent to set if Louth get a replay. Where does it end? We could have replays for every sort of small mistake a referee makes it the game.

However, I do believe that the referee should not be allowed ref a game of such importance for a long long time. He lost control at the end of the game. I think that the umpires weren't going to award the goal until the referee told them too. There was never a time when they seemed assured that it was a goal.

And, the pitch invasion. The supporters who ran on the pitch are scum. End of. They tried to attack innocent person. You do not do that. Regardless of the decisions they make throughout a game. Hopefully these people are prosecuted against and given criminal convictions. That referee can count himself lucky. If he had fallen he could have been seriously assaulted.

kormak

If the referee had any sense he would have given a free in and just went for a replay.
I'm a Meath fan and I was standing 10 rows from the pitch on the Cusack.
To me the goal looked a little dubious...
But aside from this, what those few Louth fans did to assult & intimidate the ref after the match was unforgiveable.
Louth Co. board should assist in seeking every single one of them out and allow the GAA to hand them lifetime bans from Croke Park.
Idiots!

Dots1982

Louth fans shouldn't be ashamed. Any county's would have had a few fans that would have done the same thing. Refs have being attacked all over the country. Peter Fitzpatrick was a man of true class in the way he conducted himself and by the way in my mind the ref wasn't assaulted he was jostled and verbally abused. Anyone who says he's being assaulted are being a bit precious. I'm from Kildare by the way just in case I get accused of pro Louth bias.

DeepBlue

pazza wrote: »

We can always look at decisions - and have to take them in the cold light of day, e.g. Kerry for the 5-in-a-row, Seamus Darby pushed Tommy Doyle for the goal, should Offaly not have offered a replay.

It's not too late you know. :pac:

Wile E. Coyote

Dots1982 wrote: »

by the way in my mind the ref wasn't assaulted he was jostled and verbally abused. Anyone who says he's being assaulted are being a bit precious. I'm from Kildare by the way just in case I get accused of pro Louth bias.

You should really read up on the definition of assault. The ref was assaulted and the 'supporters who did it are a disgrace.

Dots1982

A free-in Kormak??, who would that work considering it was in the square.

kormak

Dots1982 wrote: »

Louth fans shouldn't be ashamed. Any county's would have had a few fans that would have done the same thing. Refs have being attacked all over the country. Peter Fitzpatrick was a man of true class in the way he conducted himself and by the way in my mind the ref wasn't assaulted he was jostled and verbally abused. Anyone who says he's being assaulted are being a bit precious. I'm from Kildare by the way just in case I get accused of pro Louth bias.

HaHa that's just hillarious! :rolleyes:
He was elbowed in the chest, shouldered and intimatidated for fear of his life.
Believe me mate I was a stone throw away from where it was happening.
To some how try to justify this is idiotic.

Shane10

one question you have to ask is why do refs bring this on themselves. you have 2 umpires on the line, just take a second go and ask both of them and surely they would have said no goal dont give it. crisis over.

Shane10

did anyone else think the guards were way to slow to protect the ref. completely left him exposed IMO.

Wile E. Coyote

Shane10 wrote: »

did anyone else think the guards were way to slow to protect the ref. completely left him exposed IMO.

Yeah I think they were Louth supporters.

blackbelt

Shane10 wrote: »

one question you have to ask is why do refs bring this on themselves. you have 2 umpires on the line, just take a second go and ask both of them and surely they would have said no goal dont give it. crisis over.

He simply bottled it.I have to say I never heard of or saw that referee ever before.I think the GAA seriously have to pay more attention to the refereeing appointments.

PS. No referee from Dublin has made either codes panel this year.This is truly shocking as I know for a fact that a lot of the best referees in this country are based here.

Dots1982

Not justifying it and I guess you could call it assault in definition so your right. Don't think anyone was arrested all the same.

kormak

Shane10 wrote: »

did anyone else think the guards were way to slow to protect the ref. completely left him exposed IMO.

very much so. when the whole thing looked like it was kicking off, there was 1 single guard standing beside the ref.

SantryRed

The referee should have been off the pitch straight after the final whistle. The fact he stood around and then even worse, gave a yellow card to a Louth player for complaining which incited even more anger into the Louth fans.

He conducted himself very poorly. Is he an experience referee?

Shane10

kormak wrote: »

very much so. when the whole thing looked like it was kicking off, there was 1 single guard standing beside the ref.

ya 1 guard and he was useless. the ref looked at him to say will you do something. crazy stuff.

thegen

He gave a red card to a supporter as well!!!!!
Sean Kelly on Today FM saying a replay would be the fairest way to deal with it!!!

DDC1990

Some people are using the fact that Louth got a few soft free's from the referee to suggest that this goal was fair in the long run and that there should be a replay. However, with any soft free there isa 50% chance the ref will give it one way and a 50% he'll give it the other way. Ok, it will be soft, but it'll be given.

However in the case of the goal there isn't even a 1% chance it should be given. The square ball, and then the ball carried/thrown over the line. No contact was made with the leg ever. How the referee can award a goal in that case is beyond belief.

Its now down to meath. The can offer a replay in good faith, or decide not to give the replay.

IMO, they should offer it, or their Leinster Title in 2010 will always have and asterix beside it. I believe that if the replay was offered, then Meath would still have the team to go on and win it, and put an end to all this furore. However, inside, Louth will still feel robbed as they were winning when the ball went in. Such a tough situation.

kormak

DDC1990 wrote: »

Some people are using the fact that Louth got a few soft free's from the referee to suggest that this goal was fair in the long run and that there should be a replay. However, with any soft free there isa 50% chance the ref will give it one way and a 50% he'll give it the other way. Ok, it will be soft, but it'll be given.

However in the case of the goal there isn't even a 1% chance it should be given. The square ball, and then the ball carried/thrown over the line. No contact was made with the leg ever. How the referee can award a goal in that case is beyond belief.

Its now down to meath. The can offer a replay in good faith, or decide not to give the replay.

IMO, they should offer it, or their Leinster Title in 2010 will always have and asterix beside it. I believe that if the replay was offered, then Meath would still have the team to go on and win it, and put an end to all this furore. However, inside, Louth will still feel robbed as they were winning when the ball went in. Such a tough situation.

Listen! even Brian O'Driscoll said after the game that Joe Sheridan's try was fair and square....

kormak

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/sheridan-the-ref-got-it-right-124844.html

Good man Joe!

event

blackbelt wrote: »

I can't say I blame Joe Sheridan to the degree in which a person can blame Thierry Henry.

i agree with ye, but this turns the stomach

"We were delighted that we got the goal in the end. It was well worked up and we were lucky to get the break in the end," he said.

"It was a definite goal. People can otherwise, but I was well high in over the net. I just dropped the ball and it was in the net, simple as that."

"I was pushed so it would have been a penalty anyway if it wasn't a goal."

at least have the balls to admit he was wrong, thats shocking IMO

Colm R

As a neutral on this who was not at the match ( was in Thurles) my take on it is:

1. Don't hold the Louth team or county board responsible for the actions of about 10 (probably not affiliated to any club) people. In fairness, some of the Louth players did attempt to stop some thugs from getting at the ref.

2. A security review needs to be completed. I think its impertative now, that you have a team of stewards/Gardai put at various points around the field, and whoever is closest to the ref at the final whistle, takes responsiblity for protecting him.

3. Video evidence needs to be used and sanctions brought against those so called supporters involved. Its worth noting that most genuine Louth supporters remained at their seats with shell shocked expressions on their faces.

4. I think this is the end of Plan B.


All of the above aside, Louth were robbed. Talking to people from Meath last night, they did not want to win like this. They did not deserve the win.

But can there be a replay. I don't think so to be honest. This is not like the Clare Offaly game blown up early. This was down to a decision by a referee to award a score. Under the rules of the game, Meath won.

What can the GAA learn from this?

I think the number one thing that needs to be looked at is the role of umpires. To me it looked like they did not say anything to the referee and just complied with his decision. This type of scenario needs to be looked at. In goal mouth situations, I believe the decision of a score should be taken by the two men closest to the play and with the best view.

20 Times 20 Times

I was thinking the same myself when reading that article. Not even have the balls to admit that your wrong and with TV to prove it also.

Pal

Meath won.

Its over.

If Louth are awarded a replay, then the Dubs should get one too for the 1978 All Ireland Final when Mikey Sheehy scored that goal.

Where would this nonsense end ?

SantryRed

SantryRed wrote: »

Where does it end? We could have replays for every sort of small mistake a referee makes it the game.

In fairness, its not exactly a small mistake. Its one that has changed the outcome of a final with virtually the last play of the game.

24pintsman

The first point is that all sides should take a step back from this - it is extremely sickening and does no good to cast amateur players or officials as villains.
The second point is that Louth should be extremely proud of their team, who have seriously announced themselves on the national stage. They were underestimated going into the Kildare match, the Westmeath match and yet again going into the Leinster final. They completely outplayed Meath (who were considered the 'coming force in GAA).
Thirdly, Louth people in general should distance themselves from the actions of the few thugs that attacked the referee. It may be 53 years since the Louth team won Leinster but this team are back in the big time now and so the supporters should have more confidence in themselves by saying that, yes they were wronged, but the actions of the few thugs who attacked the ref are so beneath them that they would sooner see their great team go through the qualifiers than have a replay that would vindicate that kind of behaviour.
Lastly, Meath - a great football county in it's own right, should offer a replay without doubt, and admit publicly that the goal should not have been allowed and that Louth should have won. At this point, strangely I know, I believe the GAA should then reject the offer.
This turn of events would A) Publicly endorse the feeling that by right Louth are Leinster champions, Help to take away the nasty air between Meath and Louth fans and c) Not set a precedent for replays based on bad decisions or set up a potentially nasty encounter between the fans or upset the schedule list.