Spain win/Villa top scorer?

hitman79

Anyone know what way the bookies pay out on this? Only had a fiver on a Spain win/Villa top scorer at 12/1? Do they pay out since Villa was joint top scorer?

heavyballs

hitman79 wrote: »

Anyone know what way the bookies pay out on this? Only had a fiver on a Spain win/Villa top scorer at 12/1? Do they pay out since Villa was joint top scorer?

was he tied with 3 others?in that case divide your stake by 3 and keep the original odds ,so you get 21.67,.sorry...:(

johnny_adidas

Pp paid out 1/4 odds to me but that can't be right can it? I still won half the bet with spain and the 1/4 on the rest for villa (if indeed it should be divided at all as I picked him for top scorer, dead heat or not). Or was this just glass half full thinking?

Dearg81

It was a 4 way tie so you'll get €16.25. I had the same bet and Forlan/Spain and got paid a quarter of the winnings on each.

hitman79

heavyballs wrote: »

was he tied with 3 others?in that case divide your stake by 3 and keep the original odds ,so you get 21.67,.sorry...:(

Jaysus he was tied with 3 others..disaster Had a tenner on the dutch at 11/1 so was rooting for them..ah well i'll get 4 pints out of it!

hitman79

johnny_adidas wrote: »

Pp paid out 1/4 odds to me but that can't be right can it? I still won half the bet with spain and the 1/4 on the rest for villa (if indeed it should be divided at all as I picked him for top scorer, dead heat or not). Or was this just glass half full thinking?

I put the bet on with Ladbrokes so hopefully there more generous. Not getting my hopes up tho

lehain

i had spain to win the world cup and david villa to be top scorer a double bet at 14/1 at €10 , and i got 38.50 reurns

hitman79

lehain wrote: »

i had spain to win the world cup and david villa to be top scorer a double bet at 14/1 at €10 , and i got 38.50 reurns

Such a kick in the nuts eh What bookie you with?

lehain

had another bet with paddy power for david villa to be top scoer €20 at 8/1 and i got €45 back im bloody sick right now

lehain

You back David Villa to be Top Goalscorer for the World Cup at odds of 8/1 for a £10 stake. If Villa and Messi finish up joint top on six goals both are deemed winners and the dead heat rule is applied. The bet is settled as £5 (half of £10 as there are two players tied) at odds of 8/1. Total returns: £45.

Dearg81

lehain wrote: »

had another bet with paddy power for david villa to be top scoer €20 at 8/1 and i got €45 back im bloody sick right now

In fairness to PP they explain the dead heat rules on their site:

Winner & Top Goalscorer Doubles



Why are my returns not as much as I thought?
With Top Goalscorer markets there is always a possiblity of players tied on the same number of goals. This can generate dead heats (especially for places in each way bets) and this can be tricky to understand. We have provided an explanation below:

Winner/Top Goalscorer dead heats
With the Winner/Top Goalscorer doubles market you are backing a team to win the World Cup along with a player to be Top Goalscorer. It is possible for more than one player to be the Top Goalscorer, in this event dead heat rules are applied to your bet. The stake is divided by the total number players tied and paid out at the full odds.

Example: You back Brazil to win the World Cup and Robinho to be the Top Goalscorer at 66/1 for a £15 stake. If Robinho, Torres and Villa all finish as joint top scorers on five goals each, there are three joint winners in this market and a dead heat is applied to your bet. The bet is settled as as £5 (one third of £15 based on three joint top scorers) at odds of 66/1. Total returns: £335.

lehain

no fairness there at all they should pay out because he was the top scorer and that was the bet

lehain

lehain wrote: »

no fairness there at all they should pay out because he was the top scorer and that was the bet

You mustn't know much about gambling with that attitude, dead heat rules apply, do you expect the bookies to pay out on all the four lads tied at 5 goals ?

hurleronditch

lehain wrote: »

that was the bet

the bet is what is in the rules, ie fractional split on a tie, not what you think is fair. would be completely unfair on the bookies otherwise

lehain

i suppose not, but my other bet with spain and villa it was 14/1. the top scorer part of the bet should have the dead heat rules applied and then for the spain to win part of the bet i should have got proper odds of 4/1 which would have given me a measly €60 but it would have been fairer in my opinion

lehain

lehain wrote: »

i suppose not, but my other bet with spain and villa it was 14/1. the top scorer part of the bet should have the dead heat rules applied and then for the spain to win part of the bet i should have got proper odds of 4/1 which would have given me a measly €60 but it would have been fairer in my opinion

That 14/1 doesn't consist of a 4/1 and a something else/1 double. It's a special price. Your idea of fairness is well off track. Count yourself lucky the bookies don't use the same rules as FIFA, Mueller gets the Golden Boot, Villa is 2nd.

hurleronditch

lehain wrote: »

i suppose not, but my other bet with spain and villa it was 14/1. the top scorer part of the bet should have the dead heat rules applied and then for the spain to win part of the bet i should have got proper odds of 4/1 which would have given me a measly €60 but it would have been fairer in my opinion

How would that work exactly?

it was effectively an accumulator bet, so it was one return not two

lehain

no i dont know much about gambling and so those dead heat rules should be stated clearly when somebody is making those types of bets and as far as i can remember they werent

hurleronditch

hurleronditch wrote: »

How would that work exactly?

it was effectively an accumulator bet, so it was one return not two

It wasn't an accum, it was a special price as Villa top scorer and Spain to win WC are related bets. I did a double last week, a horse and Villa top scorer, dh rule applies to the Villa price. My docket it an accum, Spain to win WC with Villa topscorer is not an accum.

hurleronditch

RoverJames wrote: »

It wasn't an accum, it was a special price as Villa top scorer and Spain to win WC are related bets. I did a double last week, a horse and Villa top scorer, dh rule applies to the Villa price. My docket it an accum, Spain to win WC with Villa topscorer is not an accum.

I know it wasnt but for return purposes it works the same, the two results must happen for payout.

lehain

lehain wrote: »

no i dont know much about gambling and so those dead heat rules should be stated clearly when somebody is making those types of bets and as far as i can remember they werent

I'd be fairly sure there is a sign up in the shop or a note on your docket "all bets are subject to our rules"

Gambling is for big boys :cool:

Barr

Unlikly to win as Villa didn't get top scorer.

Dearg81

He didnt win the golden boot but he was (joint) top scorer.

Barr

Barr wrote: »

Unlikly to win as Villa didn't get top scorer.

Bookies settle it as a 4 way dead heat

lehain

lol , Betfair must be for the people then and pp for the those who dont mind being duped

Dearg81

lehain wrote: »

lol , Betfair must be for the people then and pp for the those who dont mind being duped

My Forlan/Spain bet was on Betfair, same dead heat rules apply - they payed 1/4 of the odds too.

lehain

lehain wrote: »

lol , Betfair must be for the people then and pp for the those who dont mind being duped

You really should not place your next bet until you do some research.

gosplan

Bah, had 25 quid on this at 18-1 before the world cup.

Knew when he missed that penalty, it'd come back to bite.

Hoki

I had €5 e/w on Higuain as top scorer @ 18/1 with 1/4 of the odds being payed for the first 5 places. Higuain finished 5th with 2 others so are my winnings calculated as follows ?

1/4 of my odds = 9/2
1/3 of my stake - 1/3 of €5 = €1.66
€1.66 @ 9/2 = €7.47

OR

1/3 of my stake - 1/3 of €5 = €1.66
€1.66 @ 18/1 = €29.88

Or am i wrong with both

panthera

cashmans paid out full odds on spain-villa

sham69

I had 10 euro on Villa to be top scorer @8/1, rang Celtic this morning and they are paying 1/4 of the stake which is 2.50 8/1 which pays 22.50
Better than a kick in the arse , really fancied villa to score last night....

Dearg81

Hoki wrote: »

I had €5 e/w on Higuain as top scorer @ 18/1 with 1/4 of the odds being payed for the first 5 places. Higuain finished 5th with 2 others so are my winnings calculated as follows ?

1/4 of my odds = 9/2
1/3 of my stake - 1/3 of €5 = €1.66
€1.66 @ 9/2 = €7.47

OR

1/3 of my stake - 1/3 of €5 = €1.66
€1.66 @ 18/1 = €29.88

Or am i wrong with both

€7.47 sounds right to me

voxpop

Can someone clear this up - threw on the left over of my pp account on villa + a pp free bet of 10. So it ended up at 32@15/8 . Now I got 13 back!

The only way I could work it out is 1/4 stake = 8 @15/8 + (1/4 stake - 10 free bet) so I gets 15 + (8-10) = 13! Is that right - I dont even get my full stake back after winning the bet?

CrabieCrawford

anyone know where i can get a list of the top scorers?

have klose e/w bet (goes to 5places i think) but didnt get paid out i it.
just wondering should i have?

voxpop

Verance

CrabieCrawford wrote: »

anyone know where i can get a list of the top scorers?

have klose e/w bet (goes to 5places i think) but didnt get paid out i it.
just wondering should i have?

Klose was tied 5th. Who did you do it with? I'd say they were only paying 4 places.

CrabieCrawford

yeah just checked, it was bet 365 and they were only going to 4 places.

wouldnt have been expecting much anyway.
its just when my forlan bet came in i kinda thought klose would have been a win as well

Dearg81

voxpop wrote: »

Can someone clear this up - threw on the left over of my pp account on villa + a pp free bet of 10. So it ended up at 32@15/8 . Now I got 13 back!

The only way I could work it out is 1/4 stake = 8 @15/8 + (1/4 stake - 10 free bet) so I gets 15 + (8-10) = 13! Is that right - I dont even get my full stake back after winning the bet?

I think thats wrong. I would be expecting to get back:
8@15/8 + (1/4)x(€22)=€20.50

Think about it this way. If you had just used your €10 free bet you would expect to get back €2.50@15/8=€4.69
Then if you had done a seperate bet with your other €22 you would have won €5.5@15/8 +€5.5=€15.81

€4.69+€15.81=€20.50

voxpop

Just talking to one of their guys on the live chat thing and this is the logic he came up with

€5.5@15/8 +€5.5=€15.81
€2.50@15/8 +€2.5=€7.18

add them together = 22.9 or 23 then subtract the free bet of 10 ! which gives 13


Seems like a bit of a joke that system...they take back the full free bet even though they reduced the stake.

Dearg81

voxpop wrote: »

Just talking to one of their guys on the live chat thing and this is the logic he came up with

€5.5@15/8 +€5.5=€15.81
€2.50@15/8 +€2.5=€7.18

add them together = 22.9 or 23 then subtract the free bet of 10 ! which gives 13


Seems like a bit of a joke that system...they take back the full free bet even though they reduced the stake.

Thats is ridiculous. Ask him what would they have done if you had just made the €10 free bet and had a zero balance? Your account would have been €2.82 in debit by their logic!

Prunty

I'm unable to comprehend the injustice of this situation with regards to the top goalscorers. I placed 3 bets in Boylesports as Argentina played their first game and as a result I was unable to get odds at the time. The bets were messi top goalscorer, argentina to win w/ Fabiano top goalscorer and villa spain. 5 euro on each, more to make the competition more interesting than anything else.

Boylesports paid out 15 euro to me this morning including my stake. I got odds of 11/1 (brutal) and my 1/4 stake of 1.25 = 15 euro. I understand that the bookies have to guard themselves and paying out on four top goalscorers would be a huge blow but the thing that is bothering me is at the time of me placing my bet Spain were 7/2 to win it. Had I placed my fiver simply on Spain to win I would have gotten 22.50 back (150% of my actual winnings)

Simply put by being more accurate with my bet, picking David Villa to score the most goals, I damaged my bet. Surely that's against some kind of rule or at least ethic?

voxpop

Dearg81 wrote: »

Thats is ridiculous. Ask him what would they have done if you had just made the €10 free bet and had a zero balance? Your account would have been €2.82 in debit by their logic!

Yeah my thinking exactly - he said that I would have won nothing if I just used the free bet. He became a bit cagey when I pressed him on the details and offered me a €10 goodwill gesture - so good enough for me in the end, but a ridiculous system based around the free bet - whether by design or not - it makes the free bet more of a liability than anything

Dearg81

voxpop wrote: »

Yeah my thinking exactly - he said that I would have won nothing if I just used the free bet. He became a bit cagey when I pressed him on the details and offered me a €10 goodwill gesture - so good enough for me in the end, but a ridiculous system based around the free bet - whether by design or not - it makes the free bet more of a liability than anything

He offered you a €10 goodwill gesture because he knew he was wrong. I hope you have better luck with it this time and make sure u have a zero balance when you use it this time

Prunty

Prunty wrote: »

I'm unable to comprehend the injustice of this situation with regards to the top goalscorers. ..............................Simply put by being more accurate with my bet, picking David Villa to score the most goals, I damaged my bet. Surely that's against some kind of rule or at least ethic?

That's the way it is, I find DH rules conceptually challenging when you try and introduce fairness but the rules are quite clear.

sham69

sham69 wrote: »

really fancied villa to score last night....

Me too, twice he was clean through but his teammates didn't play the ball to him, Fabregas and I forget who the other was.

Verance

Prunty wrote: »

Simply put by being more accurate with my bet, picking David Villa to score the most goals, I damaged my bet. Surely that's against some kind of rule or at least ethic?

Exactly, you picked him to score the most but he didn't, he tied with 3 others. Definitely not against the rules nor ethics either imo.

Trampas

Lucky it wasn't golden boot instead of top goal scorer is all I say lads

Prunty

villa did finish top goalscorer, yes joint but as pointed out it wasn't goldenboot, I didn't bet goldenboot. I don't begrudge them lessening my odds but I think it's hilarious that I would have won more by just backing Spain that bet was spot on surely my bet shouldn't have been devalued to worse odds then they were giving on just the Spain win. In an accumulator if a match was postponed or called off yes you're odds wouldn't be the same but it wouldn't effect the other results that you got right.

Is this a bookies appreciation thread? I ain't looking for sympathy just sharing a funny result on a bet.

cmx aka mexy

had 20 snows on spain to win/villa top goalscorer myself @ 16/1
havent got round to collecting yet.
dont think i'd ever back a top goalscorer again in a double. its not worth it.

Prunty

Prunty wrote: »

villa did finish top goalscorer, yes joint but as pointed out it wasn't goldenboot, I didn't bet goldenboot. I don't begrudge them lessening my odds but I think it's hilarious that I would have won more by just backing Spain that bet was spot on surely my bet shouldn't have been devalued to worse odds then they were giving on just the Spain win. In an accumulator if a match was postponed or called off yes you're odds wouldn't be the same but it wouldn't effect the other results that you got right.

Is this a bookies appreciation thread? I ain't looking for sympathy just sharing a funny result on a bet.

It's not a bookies appreciation thread, it's a I don't have a clue about betting thread The point you make about selections being postponed not effecting odds on other selections in the same accum is not relevent at all. They are not related, the amount Villa scores is related to Spain winning the World Cup, can you not appreciate that. He finished joint top scorer with 3 other, a 4 way dead heat.

Warper

Eejit missing that peno in the first place.