Rottweiler with tail

LeighB

Hi every body i have a Rottweiler with her full tail as it is now illegal to dock tails i think she looks better and more balanced with the full tail but my friend dosent agree i personally think that it is unnecessary to dock tails unless there is a reason like for hunting.I know that Rottweilers in the past needed tails docked for work but now this is not the case.I was just wondering what other people think about it
Thanks

Lizard Queen

glad to hear that please post pic as it would e nice for everybody to see all dogs look better with tails

EGAR

Tail docking isnt illegal in RoI, it is in the UK and in alot of other European countries.

I have a 6 week old RW pup here with full tail at present, she must have escaped the chop for some reason. I perceive tail docking as mutilation and am absolutely anti.

And to dispell a myth re working dogs and docking: It has nothing to do with injuries but for example with tax. Tails were docked to escape the non-working dog tax. The Romans docked tails as they believed it would ward off Rabies. In other countries peasant were not allowed to keep hunting dogs and their dogs tails were docked to distinguish them from the dogs the gentry kept and hunted with.

crotalus667

EGAR wrote: »

Tail docking isnt illegal in RoI, it is in the UK and in alot of other European countries.

I have a 6 week old RW pup here with full tail at present, she must have escaped the chop for some reason. I perceive tail docking as mutilation and am absolutely anti.

And to dispell a myth re working dogs and docking: It has nothing to do with injuries but for example with tax. Tails were docked to escape the non-working dog tax. The Romans docked tails as they believed it would ward off Rabies. In other countries peasant were not allowed to keep hunting dogs and their dogs tails were docked to distinguish them from the dogs the gentry kept and hunted with.

EGAR iirc some dogs where docked to stop their tails getting cought in carts they where pulling ,

EGAR

That is a myth IMHO. The owners didn't want their good dirtied by wet and muddy tails and therefore docked them (Rottweiler is a good example for that - pulling meat carts). Alot of traditional pulling dogs (Bernese Mountain Dog for example) do not have their tails docked traditionally but should be according to this reasoning.

LeighB

Hi i heard something about rottweilers pulling meat carts but now the only place you would see a dog pulling a cart is a show or fair so there should be no need to dock tails

lrushe

I have a docked Rottweiler, her breeder doesn't dock the dogs he keeps as he shows in England and Scotland but finds it hard to sell tailed dogs especially in England where docking is illegal, everyone wants the docked kind. I have to admit that until I was around tailed dogs I would never have had anything but a docked dog but I'm so used to seeing them now I just see a nice looking dog, with or without a tail.

Reeni

EGAR wrote: »

I perceive tail docking as mutilation and am absolutely anti.

I absolutely agree with this. I think its an absolutely unnecessary procedure and can't abide the practice of docking (or ear cropping for that matter).

Wolfe Tone

No reason to chop off a part of a dog at all.

January

Recently my dog had a litter of pups, JRT's, no tails docked, all pups were given new homes within the week.

morganafay

A girl in my course in college made a presentation about tail docking, with was really honest and emotional and really good. She admitted that she bred a litter of boxers and got someone in to dock their tails (a vet nurse I think). But she had no idea that it would be so horrible, because everyone says it doesn't hurt them, but they were screeching and there was blood everywhere.

So she said she'd never dock their tails again and the next litter she had all had full tails, but nobody wanted them. They were pedigree boxers but she could hardly give them away. She got her dogs neutered then because she refused to dock their tails.


I think they look much much better with full tails. I don't see the point of docking their tails and think it looks stupid. My springer spaniel had a docked tail when I got him (about 17 years ago) but he would have looked so much nicer with a proper tail.

lorebringer

I really like the look of a Rottie or Boxer with a full tail - as mother nature intended! I see no point in docking for aesthetic reasons at all, same goes for ear cropping, it doesn't make sense to me.

The only situation in which docking is valid (in my opinion) is with working breeds that are used for working. So many pet Springers and Cockers are docked for no real reason other than it's what has always been done. I was totally against docking until I got a Working Cocker with a full tail - it's very bushy and long and it would easily getting caught in a hedge or whatever if he was used for flushing etc. In fact, it has gotten caught up in lots of things over the years, bushes included, and if we hadn't been there to get him out safely he would have very easily caused himself in injury. Even clipped, not shaved just trimmed, he brings home quite a collection of twigs and such in his rump, back legs and tail - I can only imagine what it would be like if he was worked! I wouldn't want him docked but I can see the practicalities behind doing it in working dogs.

Other than this, I am totally against docking for anything other than a medical reason.

tman

I really hope you stick to your guns OP, there really is nothing as pointless as docking a dog's tail... I for one love the look of a rottie or a boxer with a full tail!

Your friend is badly misled... Try chopping off a part of them and see how they like it!

The Sweeper

Rottweilers have such gorgeous tails too - thick and a tiny bit feathery.

Look at it from this point of view - imagine walking an undocked rottweiler, that could visibly express its friendliness and excitement by wagging its tail. I wonder how many apprehensive people and apprehensive other dogs would warm up to the rottweiler more quickly because they could see it was happy to see them?

crotalus667

EGAR wrote: »

Alot of traditional pulling dogs (Bernese Mountain Dog for example) do not have their tails docked traditionally but should be according to this reasoning.

your reasoning is flawed not all dogs where used to pull the same carts at the same time

LeighB wrote: »

so there should be no need to dock tails

there are some very good reasons for doing it , some one i know had to get it done as their dogs tail was in bits (constantly bleeding) from smacking it off door ways

scudzilla

We're in the same boat wit Brodi our Boxer, she's got a tail and we wouldn't have her any other way, IMO she's a lot faster and has more balance.

Oh, and it helps her swim

LeighB

I think that Rottweilers and Boxers look more aggressive with docked tails.I know that some people consider the Rottweiler to be a dangerous breed of dog why make it look aggressive and add to its reputation by docking.When a dog wags its tail it means its happy a dog with a docked tail cant do that

EGAR

Ah Crotalus, I presume you are the same Crotalus who used to post on PI in such controversial topics? A discussion with you about tail docking is the same as talking to a wall.

Alot of breeds would be more predisposed to tail injuries (Great Danes, Greyhounds etc) as traditionally docked breeds. People have made up excuses why they do it and are still making them up. To deprive a dog of a vital part of its body (body language, balance etc) is perverted and to defend the practise is in the same category.

Docking is illegal in alot of countries, so is ear cropping. But there are still people out there who perceive it as a must for whatever reason their ignorant brains demand - it certainly has nothing to do with the welfare of their dog(s). I personally do not need a dog whos looks might enhance my social status amongst scumbags .


Ireland is limping behind as usual in all aspects of animal welfare. Nothing new there!





She was probably discarded as she has a fault (small white chest patch - quite common in RW).

00112984

Egar, she's stunning. Presume you're going to rehome her? You'll have no bother looking for someone who'd love that little madam

Re: the tail docking debate.
Tail = best part of a dog!

morganafay

crotalus667 wrote: »

there are some very good reasons for doing it , some one i know had to get it done as their dogs tail was in bits (constantly bleeding) from smacking it off door ways

I've heard of that with a few dalmatians . . . obviously it might be best to dock it then, but that doesn't mean all puppies of certain breeds should have their tails docked at a few days old.

EGAR

00112984 wrote: »

Egar, she's stunning. Presume you're going to rehome her? You'll have no bother looking for someone who'd love that little madam

She already has a home with the couple who adopted Jack the Lad off me last year (the obese RW with Entropia from Meath Pound, I think I posted about him on here?). He's a sleek 50 kg now and his eyes are great after the OP. Unfortunately, due to his obesity he developed a heart problem and has to be on meds for the rest of his life.

The litte bear will be joining her new family shortly!

crotalus667

EGAR wrote: »

Ah Crotalus, I presume you are the same Crotalus who used to post on PI in such controversial topics? A discussion with you about tail docking is the same as talking to a wall.

The ad homonym argument has and always will be weak :rolleyes:

EGAR

Lol, I see nothing has changes, Crot. Never mind, it takes all sorts :rolleyes:.

The Sweeper

crotalus667 wrote: »

there are some very good reasons for doing it , some one i know had to get it done as their dogs tail was in bits (constantly bleeding) from smacking it off door ways

Yep and my mother in law had her corgi cross's tail amputated after she caught it one too many times from anxious tail chasing and the wound turned gangrenous.

Those are necessary medical procedures in response to injury or trauma suffered by specific dogs.

The solution is certainly not to cause deliberate injury and trauma to ALL dogs of that breed to prevent injury or trauma to a few hapless individuals.

sionnaic

EGAR that puppy is just too cute...and to add to the debate looks much much better with her tail and her "fault".

I find it incredible how much stock some people, i.e a lot of breeders, show judges, ordinary joe soaps etc, put into these so called breed standards. How could anyone, especially a dog lover (which is really what you'd expect a breeder to be) look at that bundle of fur and cuteness and go "oh no - she's all wrong" because of a patch of white which I personally think looks very handsome. It boggles the mind.

As long as a dog is sound in mind and body that's all that matters. I can understand the need for certain breeds for working purposes , and I can see how and why many of today's breeds developed. But I can't understand this modern concept of "show lines" where what was once a beautiful, practical and healthy breed has been reduced to a farcical caricature of its former self, riddled with health problems ranging from breathing difficulties to horrible genetic diseases. To illustrate this point, you only have to look at the difference between the weird looking "roach" backed show lines of GSDs which are currently the "fashion" (horrible concept) and the normal healthy-looking working lines. Another good illustration is to look at photos of breed standards from the 19th and early 20th centuries and compare them to pictures of that breed today.

As for the tail docking - there is no justification for it other than a genuine medical condition (such as you mentioned Sweeper). To be honest anyone who gets it done purely for cosmetic reasons is up there with that ridiculous woman in Russia or somewhere who got her hairless cat tattooed - and I'd like to see anyone justify that incident.

My childhood springer spaniel had had his tail docked by the breeder before we got him and he had awful trouble with it in his later years - infections, swelling etc - that might have been related to the eosinophilic myositis he also developed (a disease the breed is prone to or so we were told) but still can't help thinking it wouldn't have been a problem if his poor tail had just been left alone! and yes a big waggy tail would definitely make the much maligned RW breed look a lot less intimidating.

EGAR

As long as a dog is sound in mind and body that's all that matters.

THAT is what it all boils down to. I am aware that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but to mutilate a dog (or any other animal for that matter) so that it suits my perception of "beauty" is a step too far.

Alot of breeders cull puppies who do not conform with breed standard, white patches on RW, ridgeless Rhodesian Ridgebacks etc. It's a common practise and is often recommended by breed clubs.

Again, the mind boggles...

Calhoun

I have to say im a fan of the undocked tails, i think it looks more natural. I have a un-docked cocker and the tail suits her.

Its actually quite funny to see her running with it, she uses it to slow herself down kinda like a reverse fan :P

EdgarAllenPoo

If being a working dog was a proper excuse to dock then why didn't people dock collies or St Bernard or Bernese. It's a bs excuse and shouldn't be done, I'd love to see more rotties and boxers with full tails. Ear cropping is also nasty and pointless.

mymo

I have a friend in london with an undocked cocker and springer, they are hilarious, the tails are like helicopter blades, I keep waiting for the dogs to take off arse first:P
I've also seen quite a few boxers and rotties there with tails and they are gorgeous. I completely agree it makes them look friendlier.

Wisco

As to the legality of tail docking- it's illegal for anyone in the veterinary profession to do it in Ireland, but sadly that doesn't stop people from doing DIY jobs. Which is horrible- no anaesthesia or pain relief, or antibiotics. Please don't get me wrong, I think it's a horrible mutilation anyway- wish it was possible to prosecute these sorts for cruelty and have seen the results of people doing it badly. Awful.
EGAR, gorgeous pup!!! the Boxer photos are so cute too! Wish more people would get over their ridiculous ideas about what a dog should look like. Only time it's suitable to dock is if there's been an injury and it's needed for medical reasons.

Anthony Walsh

I have two dogs at the moment a 13 year old boxer/lab, and he broke his tail twice(both accidental, hit it off the press once and my uncle the other time) but would never think of docking the tail, also have a 1 year old rottweiler/german shepard looks quite like the dog in EGAR's pic she is beautiful and even after having a dog break his tail twice his tail the thought never crossed our minds to have her docked, she is absolutely beautiful and I think without her distinct tail she would look alot less friendly and probably wouldn't act the same.

antomagoo

Our Rottie has her tail docked (done before she ended up in the rescue). Its gas looking at her little stump wagging but much rather see her with a full tail. I find myself saying to people with other dogs we meet who are a bit wary of her intentions, "look she's happy, look at her stump"

Dogs need tails, it's a good way of letting other dogs and people know what state of mind they are in. IMO

Dyr

EGAR wrote: »

That is a myth IMHO. The owners didn't want their good dirtied by wet and muddy tails and therefore docked them (Rottweiler is a good example for that - pulling meat carts). Alot of traditional pulling dogs (Bernese Mountain Dog for example) do not have their tails docked traditionally but should be according to this reasoning.

Is there any reliable research available on that theory?

seamus

crotalus667 wrote: »

there are some very good reasons for doing it , some one i know had to get it done as their dogs tail was in bits (constantly bleeding) from smacking it off door ways

Serious injury is a perfectly valid reason for removing it, exactly the same reason why we remove a leg if it's been too badly damaged to fix.

But removing any body part before there's a problem is completely unnecessary and just mutilation for the sake of it.

I don't like the look of a docked dog. They look disfigured (my dog has 3 legs before anyone jumps on me for discrimination ). My own has a pathetic rat's tail excuse for a thing and she's not a very vigorous wagger, but she would definitely be missing something without her tail.

Wisco, I don't think it's illegal for vets to dock tails in this country, just that most of them refuse to do it any more because it's considered unneccesary. You will still get vets in rural parts who will happily dock a pup's tail.

andreac

Wisco wrote: »

As to the legality of tail docking- it's illegal for anyone in the veterinary profession to do it in Ireland, but sadly that doesn't stop people from doing DIY jobs. Which is horrible- no anaesthesia or pain relief, or antibiotics. QUOTE]

Its not illegal in Ireland to dock tails. The UK brought it in alright but its still legal in Ireland to dock.

TooManyDogs

What I understand about docking in Ireland is this (open to correction as it's what I heard, I have no proof as such)

Vets who qualified in the UK where docking is illegal, but practice in Ireland are not allowed to dock dogs, vets who qualified in Ireland are allowed to dock dogs.

Having said that, most vets now choose not to dock animals which may make it seem that it's illegal in Ireland because you have to travel far and wide to have it done.

I brought in a litter of foster JRTs at 3 days old to the vet because the mother had KC and the first thing the vet asked was if I wanted the pups docked!!! :eek: I nearly died! Said no, that I was only there to get the mammy's KC checked out.....

andreac

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Vets who qualified in the UK where docking is illegal, but practice in Ireland are not allowed to dock dogs, vets who qualified in Ireland are allowed to dock dogs.

Having said that, most vets now choose not to dock animals which may make it seem that it's illegal in Ireland because you have to travel far and wide to have it done.

QUOTE]

Dont think theres any truth in that. Docking was only made illegal in UK since August 2007. Its still legal here in Ireland but most vets will not do it.

ADAlliance

It should never be forgotten that docking in itself is causing an injury to a pup. It can be harmful and painful http://anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/page_14.htm Some breeds carry von Willibrand's disease (a bleeding disorder) which could mean that an entire litter could die as a result of docking. Infections and gangrene can happen when not done in a sterile environment. Later in life dogs can suffer from neuromas, constant nerve pain (phantom limb syndrome). Puppy buyers are often unaware of these harmful effects and the breeders are unlikely to tell.
Working dogs sustain more leg injuries than tail injuries according to a recent study and who suggests removing a leg in case of injury. Broken tails can be mended by skilful attention from a Vet (tongue depressors make good splints). A recent study shows that 500 dogs would need to be docked to avoid one injury and "working" dogs are more likely to be injured at home where possibly they are in kennels/cages or in doors