If you could start only one completely controversial thread

CiDeRmAn

If you could start one controversial thread, damning all those who disagree, about retrogaming, or gaming in general, whay would it be?

What discussion have you always wanted to have but were afraid to?

Fanboi and deliberate hate pieces allowed folks.

Don't post an opinion here unless you are prepared to take dogs abuse, and remember, we are all friends after, ok?


So here's my 5c,
I hate Street Fighter II, I detested it on the Snes and Megadrive, I pity those who jammed 20p pieces into mayonnaise encrusted slot machines in chippers, I hate the ubiquity of the quarter circle towards/away for special moves.
I feckin' hate it!
The only thing I despise more is Mortal Kombat, with completely nonsensical special moves that you have to learn from a lousy games mag to know!

Ah, feel better now.

Retr0gamer

Good idea

As for street fighter, you don't hate it, you just don't know how to play it and don't realise how deep it is. It's simple but yet very deep and as a testiment to how great it is EVO is starting today and after 19 years Street Fighter 2 is still featuring in the tournament and still played competitively.

Now for my rants.

Donkey Kong Country isn't a great game. A decent game but hardly a classic. The graphics look awful now and the level design while not completely devoid of good levels has far too many levels that are half arsed and boring.

Goldeneye while hugely influential can not be regarded as a good game in this day and age by any sane person. It's visuals have dated horribly, the framerate is criminal because of all the epilipsy it caused and ruins any fun in the and and lastly the defend natalya mission.

NeoKubrick

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Good idea

As for street fighter, you don't hate it, you just don't know how to play it and don't realise how deep it is. It's simple but yet very deep and as a testiment to how great it is EVO is starting today and after 19 years Street Fighter 2 is still featuring in the tournament and still played competitively.

Well, you have to separate games that are designed to be an art (for lack of a better word) and to be a sport. Street Fighter is the latter, and as art, it's a poor game. As a competitive sport, it's one of the best. If you don't play Street Fighter competitively and regularly compete with friends or others, then you're not going to think it's a good at all and correctly so. It's not as bad as playing Counter-Strike on your own but pretty close.

The only games I can think of is MMOs which are badly designed: thinly veiled social venues with huge timesinks.

o1s1n

90% of modern games are ****.

Retr0gamer

90% of old games are **** :P

Professey Chin

Sonic will always be better then Mario!That fat little plumber can go suck a warp pipe!
*puts on riot gear and runs like fcuk*

justbrian

Mine is the same as the last post. I would start a Sonic vs Mario thread. In which I would bury Mario as being bad compared to Sonic.


Or

I feel the same was about Streetfighter II as in the first post.

Or one not yet mentioned so I can be original.


I hated the game gear, I was a sega fan always from Master system to dreamcast. The game gear was the exception, compared to gameboy it sucked. Crap button placement, bad battery life and the game selection was poor compared to gameboy.

Retr0gamer

Anyone that thinks Sonic is better than mario is sick and wrong.

ghostchant

I'd go the other way and say that sonic is a completely over-rated series, and I'm talking about the 2D games here. I do like them, a lot (got the sonic 'birthday' edition for the DC off Gadge recently) but, as retr0 said about DKC (which I prefer to any sonic game :P), they're decent but not great. Too much running through the levels with little interaction, just bouncing around like crazy, not dissimilar to recent Sonic games in that respect.

The mario games are several orders of magnitude better.

chopperbyrne

The Dreamcast is Segas worst major (32X, Sega CD etc are add-ons) console.

The Saturn is by far the best.

justbrian

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The Dreamcast is Segas worst major (32X, Sega CD etc are add-ons) console.

The Saturn is by far the best.

Well that is hardly controversial, as many people think the same. The Dreamcast just didn't have the same level of game support as Saturn. Particually not enough 3rd party support.

Therefore the overall Saturn game library is better.

o1s1n

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The Dreamcast is Segas worst major (32X, Sega CD etc are add-ons) console.

The Saturn is by far the best.

I'd rate the Saturn and Megadrive above the Dreamcast..but then again I'd rate the Saturn and the Megadrive above most consoles. The Dreamcast doesn't stand a chance against either of them. It's a fantastic console though. Lately I've been playing it more than anything else.

I'd almost put it on par with the ps2 if the ps2 didn't have so many damn releases!

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

90% of modern games are ****.

Agreed.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

90% of old games are **** :P

Where does old begin & new start? In fairness, there are far more older games than modern ones, so going by the numbers of course there will be more bad ones. The thing about old games is a lot of new ideas were tried, some worked, some failed miserably - the point being, at least there was variety. These days is aim & shoot, aim & shoot, aim & shoot. Even the good modern titles, (Alan Wake for example) are heavily borrowing on ideas from 10/15 years ago.

o1s1n

The limitations of hardware made many older games a lot more innovative. You just don't get that as much anymore. Plus with the sheer amount of money modern developers need to spend to get a title up to scratch, they're not as willing to take chances.

Or maybe I'm just not playing enough modern titles. However, every time I go and look for an interesting one it just seems to be a sea of FPS titles, sports games, generic looking RPGs and 3rd person childrens games based on X film/television show I've never heard of.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

Or maybe I'm just not playing enough modern titles. However, every time I go and look for an interesting one it just seems to be a sea of FPS titles, sports games, generic looking RPGs and 3rd person childrens games based on X film/television show I've never heard of.

Basically todays top ten in HMV/Game/insert generic rubbish store here. With the resources/money available today, the games charts should NOT, I repeat NOT look like this. Granted its form March, but reflective of modern times. Utter tripe. Give me Sonic 2, Half Life, Super Mario World, or ANY of the retro classics any day of the week, over todays fecal produce.

justbrian

EnterNow wrote: »

Basically todays top ten in HMV/Game/insert generic rubbish store here. With the resources/money available today, the games charts should NOT, I repeat NOT look like this. Granted its form March, but reflective of modern times. Utter tripe. Give me Sonic 2, Half Life, Super Mario World, or ANY of the retro classics any day of the week, over todays fecal produce.

1. Resident Evil 5 - PS3 Good but Resi 1 and 2 are better

2. Resident Evil 5 - Xbox 360

3. H.A.W.X. - PS3 Never heard of it

4. Killzone 2 - PS3 Generic shooter of which ps3/360 has 23 million

5. GTA Chinatown Wars - DS Not the best of the GTA series but ok

6. New Super Mario Bros - Not played it

7. Mario Kart - Wii Good MP fun, best game on this list

8. H.A.W.X. - Xbox 360

9. Club Penguin: Elite Penguin - DS Never heard of it

10. Empire: Total War - PC Not my cup of tea

Doctor DooM

Gauntlet is really REALLY boring to play. It was boring to play 20 years ago too.

ghostchant

I'd say that the Dreamcast is the best Sega console of them all.

Also in the list above - Chinatown Wars is an excellent game, if it had been made 15 years ago (and feasibly it probably could have) it would probably be considered a classic.

Gaming's in a great state these days in my opinion. Retro games easily accessible via VC, xbox live etc, and loads of great new games being released (Chinatown Wars, Fallout 3, Henry Hatsworth, Braid, Fable II, SF IV, etc)

jaykhunter

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

If you could start one controversial thread, damning all those who disagree, about retrogaming, or gaming in general, whay would it be?

Fanboi and deliberate hate pieces allowed folks.

My topic would be "F**K you, PC Fanboys"

I can't stand them constantly harassing us 'normies' with frame-rates, dedicated servers and whatever (makes hand chatter gesture) bo11ox about PCs, their snobbish condescension about how everyone should only play games on a PC. Take your WoW, Farmville and your 6-month-late console ports and f**k right off. Good for you, we don't give a sh1t, leave us alone. Go back in your sordid hole, you double-clicking hot-key molesters.

/rant

Myrddin

jaykhunter wrote: »

My topic would be "F**K you, PC Fanboys"

I can't stand them constantly harassing us 'normies' with frame-rates, dedicated servers and whatever (makes hand chatter gesture) bo11ox about PCs, their snobbish condescension about how everyone should only play games on a PC. Take your WoW, Farmville and your 6-month-late console ports and f**k right off. Good for you, we don't give a sh1t, leave us alone. Go back in your sordid hole, you double-clicking hot-key molesters.

/rant

You do realise that by giving about about pc fanboys, your admitting to being a console fanboy?

Why can't people just enjoy games for what they are. I've a PC, a 360, a PS3 & a Wii ok, so I cant be called a fanboy or biased against any system. There are games which are better suited to different platforms than others. It's always been that way. Half Life should only be played with a keyboard & mouse, Mario Galaxy should never be played with anything other than a Wiimote, Heavy Rain is a PS3 exclusive, Gears of War is a 360 exclusive.

It just looks childish saying "Lulz @ 360 owners/ROFL @ PS3 newbz/PC owners are gheycons" etc etc. Every system has its gems that the others can't touch.

justbrian

GOW and GOW 2 are the single most stupid games I have ever played.

jaykhunter

Just getting this thread back on topic

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Fanboi and deliberate hate pieces allowed folks.

So there Also note that I didn't say anything Pro-Console, so how can I admit I'm a console fanboy!! I have a separate rant about Xbox Live, does that make me a PC and/or PS3 fanboy!

I could just as easily say since you're calling me a fanboy, you're admitting you're a PC fanboy! See, isn't logical. That word gets thrown around a lot. But I used it in a general sense, you've used it in a specific sense (i.e. me) I gave out about PC Fanboys, not PCs.

EnterNow wrote: »

I've a PC, a 360, a PS3 & a Wii ok, so I cant be called a fanboy or biased against any system.

Me too, so I guess on two accounts you can't call me a fanboy either! PC fanboys are just as bad as Xbots of PS3 fanboys. It's all ignorant, unnecessary and childish.

"_ _ _ _ should only be played on _ _ _ _" is a bit of fanboy talk tho

On a side note, just finished playing Broken Sword 1 on the PC. Really enjoyed it

I stand by my rant, "f**k you PC Fanboys".

Myrddin

jaykhunter wrote: »

Take your WoW, Farmville and your 6-month-late console ports and f**k right off. Good for you, we don't give a sh1t, leave us alone. Go back in your sordid hole, you double-clicking hot-key molesters.

/rant

jaykhunter wrote: »

I gave out about PC Fanboys, not PCs.

Backtrack much?

EnterNow wrote: »

Half Life should only be played with a keyboard & mouse, Mario Galaxy should never be played with anything other than a Wiimote, Heavy Rain is a PS3 exclusive, Gears of War is a 360 exclusive.

So by your logic, I'm a PC/360/PS3/Wii fanboy because I appreciate the certain advantages one has over the other? I didn't call you a fanboy either, I said that by giving about about pc's (see your above quote) it makes you look like a fanboy.

jaykhunter

EnterNow wrote:

Backtrack much?

Wow, nice comment. Isn't it true -- Console ports are late for PCs? It's not a slag. It's just the scheduling of console ports. I didn't slag off WoW either.

EnterNow wrote:

So by your logic, I'm a PC/360/PS3/Wii fanboy

I didn't call you a fanboy, I wrote "you're admitting you're a PC fanboy", I *specifically* used that wording, because you wrote "your admitting to being a console fanboy?".

Actually, by my (and your) logic, neither of us are fanboys, since "I've a PC, a 360, a PS3 & a Wii ok, so I cant be called a fanboy or biased against any system."

You realise we're actually on the same page, right? This is a rant thread ("If you could start only one completely controversial thread") Why can't I have my rant?

Myrddin

jaykhunter wrote: »

"_ _ _ _ should only be played on _ _ _ _" is a bit of fanboy talk tho

jaykhunter wrote: »

I didn't call you a fanboy, I wrote "you're admitting you're a PC fanboy", I *specifically* used that wording, because you wrote "your admitting to being a console fanboy?".

Mmm...not sure on that one

You did make one good point though, Fanboi/y talk IS allowed on this one, so my mistake.

See, this is what happens when you combine AH themes with Retro

Welease

The 90's isn't retro yet.. so any posts about PS1's, N64 etc should be locked, deleted and the poster made play Jet Set Willy for an afternoon..

There I said it

jaykhunter

Thanks, I needed to vent. Ya, it's all pedantic anyway. We see how destructive is the 'real' F-word can be!! Guaranteed if this wasn't on boards there'd be an all-out war. As much as i hate seeing people slagging a particular console, it gets right up my nose when people slag off every console! There's obviously merit in every platform, that's why they sell so well! It's all personal choice...

I commend Americans for the growth of the internet, and blame America for the rampant fanboy culture seen on the internet!! I say that in my experience on forums, non-Americans are much more rational and polite.

justbrian

Welease wrote: »

The 90's isn't retro yet..
There I said it

So by that logic any megadrive or snes game released from 1990 is not retro, to give but one example.

I would go the opposite way, games date fast. Mostly as casual gamers always want to play on the latest hardware. (Casual gamers shivers) So I would say anything pre 2005 is already retro. Anything pre latest consoles in other words. Some ps2 excepted as a few games still come out there.

Orim

The word retro is utterly misused in gaming circles.

Describing a SNES game as retro is such utter drivel as when it was released the so-called "retro" game was cutting edge. Old things cannot be retro, unless they were already retro.

Don't get me started on the word gameplay! Now I'm off to watch xXx because of it's good filmwatch.

jaykhunter

I'd count anything that is on a cartridge as 'retro', which leaves in N64 and not PS1. Although with PCs it's a grey area since they were using CDs for ages, right?

or you could say 16-bit was the final hurrah of retro

technically everything at it's time was cutting edge, like moving from Atari to NES, that kind of thing. I dunno.

Filmwatch :LOL:

Welease

justbrian wrote: »

So by that logic any megadrive or snes game released from 1990 is not retro, to give but one example.

I would go the opposite way, games date fast. Mostly as casual gamers always want to play on the latest hardware. (Casual gamers shivers) So I would say anything pre 2005 is already retro. Anything pre latest consoles in other words. Some ps2 excepted as a few games still come out there.

For merely voicing that opinion, you would be banned, and be playing Jetpac right now until the middle of next week.....

Myrddin

Orim wrote: »

Old things cannot be retro, unless they were already retro.

Ciderman, you better not be laughing at the carnage this thread is gonna create

Welease

jaykhunter wrote: »

I'd count anything that is on a cartridge as 'retro', which leaves in N64 and not PS1. Although with PCs it's a grey area since they were using CDs for ages, right?

Banned.. 5.25 & 3.5 disks are retro

jaykhunter wrote: »

or you could say 16-bit was the final hurrah of retro

Double banned.. Some of us are still on 8-bit.

jaykhunter wrote: »

technically everything at it's time was cutting edge, like moving from Atari to NES, that kind of thing. I dunno.

Triple banned.. mario alway sucked.. even in 8-bit glory...

justbrian

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I call any dead console retro. Therefore games for said also. Dead meaning any console not readily available in high street shops, and any console that official games no longer come out for.

PS2/3 360 are therefore not retro. Most game shops still sell ps2 consoles.
Jaguar,3DO Saturn, Dreamcast, MD GameGear, SNES, NES, and gamecube to give some examples are all retro

jaykhunter

That's a good idea Brian.

Orim wrote: »

Old things cannot be retro, unless they were already retro.

That's an amazing line! It hurts my brain trying to understand it!

Dang Welease, i was hoping to get banned an even number of times! I'll fire up the ol' ZX Spectrum so

Welease

justbrian wrote: »

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I call any dead console retro. Therefore games for said also. Dead meaning any console not readily available in high street shops, and any console that official games no longer come out for.

PS2/3 360 are therefore not retro. Most game shops still sell ps2 consoles.
Jaguar,3DO Saturn, Dreamcast, MD GameGear, SNES, NES, and gamecube to give some examples are all retro

Banned.. if you can still buy it from people who you know, but wouldn't admit to knowing.. then it's not retro.

justbrian

I hate wth a passion the button layout on atari lynx. Hated playing it for said reason, despite some good games available.

Welease

jaykhunter wrote: »

That's a good idea Brian.



That's an amazing line! It hurts my brain trying to understand it!

Dang Welease, i was hoping to get banned an even number of times! I'll fire up the ol' ZX Spectrum so

I cant even touch Orim's comment.. It's a kung fu thing.. mere mortals like me can't undertstand the depth

Orim

Orim wrote: »

Old things cannot be retro, unless they were already retro.

Sorry for the confusion I was trying to pre-empt the argument regarding a game that was designed to be retro when it was made.

As an example I would consider SF4 to be retro as it is very much designed to emulate and play like SF2. In ten years time it will be still be retro but it will have nothing to do with the fact that it's ten years old. Whereas Modern Warfare 2 will never be retro. I hope that explains that quote better.

justbrian

Welease wrote: »

Banned.. if you can still buy it from people who you know, but wouldn't admit to knowing.. then it's not retro.

Banned for 2 weeks, and only allowed to play Neighbours on the spectrum for said period

jaykhunter

Hang on........



woooooo!

justbrian

You are all banned...

Welease

justbrian wrote: »

Banned for 2 weeks, and only allowed to play Neighbours on the spectrum for said period

Banned.. Your not allowed to point out that most old games actually really did suck, and you're pretty gutted that you spend 100 quid to own an original mint copy

Edit - Did anyone else fancy Daphne?

mondeo

Final Fantasy game series,, To me their absolute RUBBISH! I cannot fecking stand them!

Welease

jaykhunter wrote: »

Hang on........



woooooo!

Thats more like it.. remember don't go into the attic until the end!

CathalDublin

Welease wrote: »

The 90's isn't retro yet.. so any posts about PS1's, N64 etc should be locked, deleted and the poster made play Jet Set Willy for an afternoon..

There I said it

Completely agree;)

Welease

CathalDublin wrote: »

Completely agree;)

Sweet.. at least 2 of us when it kicks off...:D

ghostchant

Counting anything on cartridge as retro...DS games then?

amacachi

o1s1n wrote: »

The limitations of hardware made many older games a lot more innovative. You just don't get that as much anymore. Plus with the sheer amount of money modern developers need to spend to get a title up to scratch, they're not as willing to take chances.

Couldn't agree more. It's funny playing old games looking out for stuff sometimes as well, for example limits on how many shots you can fire, I assume it's down to how many sprites the console could display more than anything else. :pac:

johnny_ultimate

Some random questionable opinions I hold that would irk some:

- Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath does everything that Halo does but better (except multiplayer), and a load of superb other stuff too. So SW > Halo.

- Dragon Quest is a superior franchise to Final Fantasy in pretty much every way. Plus, it's consistent.

- Rose-tinted glasses cannot cover up how badly early 3D games have aged. Tomb Raider, Goldeneye etc... I appreciate the influence they had, but they're unplayable now. Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are rare exceptions.

- In general, games tend to improve as years go on. Now this doesn't mean I don't appreciate the countless superb retro classics, but in general advances in technology and ever improving mechanics tend to make things better in gaming. It's one of those mediums where increases in technology are vital to continued advancement, and the best developers can continue to surprise. There's plenty of stagnation in some quarters too, but the best games build on the foundations of those that came before it to create games that in many cases are genuinely better. I love retro games too, and many contemporary ones lack the charm and endless innovation of their predecessors, but I feel games today are as fresh and exciting as they ever have been.

jaykhunter

ghostchant wrote: »

Counting anything on cartridge as retro...DS games then?

ARRRRRRGH you son of a.....!! :P Ya got me!

johnny_ultimate, i don't know enough to comment on the 1st two points but i highly agree with the last two points.

For some reason my brain is hard-wired to love the look of (at least 16-bit) 2D sprites, and current gen 3D, and immediately dismiss the polygonal N64 and PS1 (for the most part) as atrocious-looking, even at the time. I also consider SSF2THDR to be prettier than SF4 because of the art style. If I had my way everything* would be animated 2D HD graphics!

I'll agree that OoT is one of the best games I've ever played, but man it's ugly. The art style is great, but i could cut myself on those polygons! That said, I find it hard looking at NES and below games because my first console was the SNES. CastleVania = Yuck! Super CastleVania IV = Yay!

Agreed with current-gen. Better technology means more complex games, which comes (hopefully) more in-depth mechanics, better storyline, better sound, visuals, etc. Which is why I say Batman AA > every other Batman game ever made. Since moving on from Atari, not everything* is called "Space _ _ _ _ " because space = dots on a black background! :pac::pac:

(*well, not everything)

I also think it's fantastic that games have gotten to the point of complexity where we're seeing (with the Wii and XBLA/PSN) the resurgence of simpler games (like N+) and the casual market. I think this kind of thing wouldn't have worked in the last generation because games were still "proving" how complex they could be. Meh, it's just a thought i had.


.........I'll just get my coat.