Clay Shooting Ireland for those outside the ICPSA ***READ MOD WARNING IN POST 30***

cavan shooter

looks as though someone is trying to formalise the good old fashioned flappers

http://www.caireland.org/News/press_releases/Clay_Sports_Ireland_%28C.S.I%29_join_Countryside_Alliance_Ireland/

might go up and have a look, seems very reasonable too,

Anyone else going??

Sparks

While it's always good to see more people shooting, my first thought was "YAFN"...

Irish Springer

Did u see the price?? €20 for a 50bird FLAPPER! :eek:

dCorbus

YAFN?

Yet Another F..... N......?

Sparks

Yet Another NGB.

The F comes in after you try to create a diagram to show all of them so as to simplify things for people trying to figure out who is who in the alphabet soup:



(And that one's not even full and complete)

dCorbus

Should it not be YAFNGB then, so?:rolleyes::D (Pedantic Pat, Pedantic Pat and his black and white seychellois-patterned bicolor felis domesticus....la, la, la)
Jeez, we'll soon have an NGB / Shooting Organisation for each and every calibre:

The NTTSA
The TOERAI

etc etc

National Two Two Shooting Association

Three O Eight Rifle Association of Ireland

:rolleyes:

Sparks

dCorbus wrote: »

Should it not be YAFNGB then, so?:rolleyes::D

Well, the point of an acronym is to be short

Jeez, we'll soon have an NGB / Shooting Organisation for each and every calibre:

Don't be silly. For years we only had one or two calibres and a dozen NGBs, one for each calibre and how that calibre was used... so we'll have more than one NGB/SO for every calibre

dCorbus

Silly, moi?
Never!:p

How about a new umbrella organisation: OSSIFIED

The Overall Shooting Sports Integrated Federation of Irish Expert Disciplines

Sparks

Why not the General Overall Board of Shooting and Hunting Including Those Elite Shooters?

dCorbus

Don't we have enough organisations by that name already?:rolleyes::D

Bananaman

Sparks,

Your Diagram is sooooooo last year (possibly even 4 years ago).

Well past it's best before date.

B'Man

Sparks

Well, chunks of it are B'man, but that's why it's dated 2009. I'll get round to updating it one of these days, when I've got time to spare. But post up whatever you see wrong with it here if you like and I'll roll those changes in. It'd be nice to have an accurate roadmap, even if it is depressingly complicated.

jwshooter

these are the same fine bunch that have the icpsa in the courts ,over various individual reasons .

they are banned by the icpsa and all the cpsa around the world .

if you support these shoots your putting money into there pockets to try ruin the icpsa .

club flappers are one thing ,this is another .


P.S. any one can shoot the icpsa shoots on day insurance " up to 3 times "

bunny shooter

Ah the good ole Irish split :rolleyes:

cavan shooter

A good turn out with most lads wearing ICPSA badges, Looks like its backed by CAI and CPSA by the looks of it.

Not into politics of it but do feel unless you are very good ICPSA isnt for you, €130 to join etc etc,

CAI are certainly giving NARGC a run for their money looks like they are tackling the ICPSA as well.

BTW 15 for 50 birds if you just wanted to shoot for score.

jwshooter

cavan shooter wrote: »

A good turn out with most lads wearing ICPSA badges, Looks like its backed by CAI and CPSA by the looks of it.

Not into politics of it but do feel unless you are very good ICPSA isnt for you, €130 to join etc etc,

CAI are certainly giving NARGC a run for their money looks like they are tackling the ICPSA as well.

BTW 15 for 50 birds if you just wanted to shoot for score.

130 euro to join a flapper club . for some one thats not into politics ,you mite want to edit the middle of your post .

you can shoot flappers all your life , only when you put on the green blazer do you feel pride in the sport

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

these are the same fine bunch that have the icpsa in the courts ,over various individual reasons .

So Clay Sports Ireland are the old board of the Leinster CPSA?

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

So Clay Sports Ireland are the old board of the Leinster CPSA?

i dont take you for a muppet in your sport ,so dont take me for one .you are well aware of whats going on .

dCorbus

you are well aware of whats going on

Some of us aren't TBH, jw. Care to explain?

only when you put on the green blazer do you feel pride in the sport

Have to disagree with you there, jw
If that was the case, only the elect and chosen few would feel pride in their sport - So is that to say, that up and until you wore the green, you felt no pride in your sport?

I take it that that is not what you meant? But if I'm reading you correctly, I have to say that's a pretty strange and TBH very elitist statement to make.

I'm off now to have no pride in my sport, until I can be deemed to be eligible to don the emerald cloak and bring glory to our sainted isle.:D:rolleyes:

jwshooter

dCorbus wrote: »

Some of us aren't TBH, jw. Care to explain?



Have to disagree with you there, jw
If that was the case, only the elect and chosen few would feel pride in their sport - So is that to say, that up and until you wore the green, you felt no pride in your sport?

I take it that that is not what you meant? But if I'm reading you correctly, I have to say that's a pretty strange and TBH very elitist statement to make.

I'm off now to have no pride in my sport, until I can be deemed to be eligible to don the emerald cloak and bring glory to our sainted isle.:D:rolleyes:

do you shoot for a club ?

dCorbus

do you shoot for a club ?

No, I shoot for me!:D:rolleyes:

But seriously, yes, when I'm at a competition or other shooting event, I do feel that (in some small way) I'm representing my club(s) - Unless of course, I'm actually representing my club, and then I'm representing my club.

Why do you ask?

jwshooter

dCorbus wrote: »

No, I shoot for me!:D:rolleyes:

But seriously, yes, when I'm at a competition or other shooting event, I do feel that (in some small way) I'm representing my club(s) - Unless of course, I'm actually representing my club, and then I'm representing my club.

Why do you ask?

well dont lecture me about some thing you know fu@K all about .

dCorbus

Sorry, jw, but....

Firstly, I asked you nicely if you'd care to explain what you where posting in reference to sparks posts. If you're not happy to share this with the rest of us, why bring up matters that some of us know nothing about (as admitted) and then when you're asked to clarify what you're talking about, you seem to think someone is lecturing you.

You still haven't explained what it is you are posting about - and you seem to think that we all know what it is you mean - If we cannot have an explanation, fair enough. This is obviously top secret information.

Secondly, you still haven't clarified what was meant by the "wearing of the green blazer" and why no-one should be proud of their sport until then? Which frankly makes no sense to me - but maybe I'm misreading your post.

well dont lecture me about some thing you know fu@K all about

And WTF kind of response is that to my previous posts? Have some f'in manners, please - and a bit of respect for your fellow posters!:(

jwshooter

dCorbus wrote: »

Sorry, jw, but....

Firstly, I asked you nicely if you'd care to explain what you where posting in reference to sparks posts. If you're not happy to share this with the rest of us, why bring up matters that some of us know nothing about (as admitted) and then when you're asked to clarify what you're talking about, you seem to think someone is lecturing you.

You still haven't explained what it is you are posting about - and you seem to think that we all know what it is you mean - If we cannot have an explanation, fair enough. This is obviously top secret information.

Secondly, you still haven't clarified what was meant by the "wearing of the green blazer" and why no-one should be proud of their sport until then? Which frankly makes no sense to me - but maybe I'm misreading your post.



And WTF kind of response is that to my previous posts? Have some f'in manners, please - and a bit of respect for your fellow posters!:(

the icpsa have been in the courts with these people this few years , costing lots ,why support them .
you can bang away, win every flapper in north county dublin ,you will never represent your country out of them .

why join some thing thats going no where and supporting the down fall of competition shooting in ireland

dCorbus

Still very

I'm bowing out now.
Thanks jw, but I think we're at cross-purposes here.
So dC out.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

i dont take you for a muppet in your sport ,so dont take me for one .you are well aware of whats going on .

Actually, I'm not. I've not been on the NTSA committee for quite a while now, and so haven't kept in touch with the ICPSA committee for quite a while either. I know of the fun and games with the ICPSA/LCPSA issue and with a few other issues with other parties as well, but none of that is current.

PS. Please re-read that bit at the start of the charter about being civil.

edit: jw given a week off for ignoring the civility rule to other posters.

TellinDeTruth

Been watching and had to comment.
I know JWS and he is one of the top shooters in the country and is a bit close to the story so he cannot be blamed for being passionate?
He knows the damage these people have tried to do to the ICPSA over the last 5 years and he loves his sport so in turn feels strongly about what is going on.
Maybe if everyone knew what these people tried and still try to do things might be clearer.
They tried to take over the ICPSA through LCPSA and lost. They tried to take over the ICPSA at AGM and lost. They tried the high court and lost. The tried politicians and lost. So will they be more succesful this time?
BTW from what I hear the people involved in this new group all appear to be banned from the ICPSA for different things.
They are not the LCPSA and have not been involved in the LCPSA since they were thrown out by the members 4 years ago at an EGM.
Surprise to hear that the English CPSA are involved. Not surprised to hear that CA involved. Perhaps the new organisation will be putting the union jack in their emblem? We Irish have a long history of calling in England when we do not get our way with our stronger neighbours...
€20 for 50 birds is the same price as for an ICPSA event in sporting but without the chance of a class prize though as flappers only reward the top guys. €20 is a lot more than in trap ICPSA shoots. So what is the point?
The ICPSA has over 1000 members so it is hardly elitist and a look at the results on the web site will show that the events have people from AA to C shooting every weekend.
The world fitasc is in Italy this week. There is an Ireland Team but also lots of individual ICPSA members. Moral? ICPSA members do it for the sport.
JWS is a past international shooter and he knows what it feels like to pull on the green vest.
Lots of ICPSA members get to do the same every year. Good for them. A lot more do not and still go to ICPSA shoots week in and week out. Moral?
It would not be a surprise to hear that ICPSA members were at yesterdays shoot. They will be taking the lions share at next weeks NARGC shoot too. What does that tell us? The ICPSA has the best shooters? The ICPSA is the top body?

bunny shooter

Yet more playground stuff :rolleyes:

Rovi

Looks like we're heading into territory specifically prohibited by the site owners.
Thread closed pending review.

Sparks

TellinDeTruth wrote: »

I know JWS and he is one of the top shooters in the country and is a bit close to the story so he cannot be blamed for being passionate?

Passion for your sport is fine; breaking the number one rule on the forum charter (ie. "Be Civil to one another") is not. For the record, that's the sole reason jw's taking a few days off from the forum - he's free to post in here again after that. This topic is not banned, and having had a chat about it to figure out an approach, we're going to reopen the thread now, but with the following caveats:

1. Be civil to one another.
2. Don't defame anyone.
3. This thread is for shooters to discuss things, not for inter-NGB warfare. Rovi's point on DeVore's Rule applies solidly to NGBs, it's only shooters who get leeway here.

We're not kidding about this one folks; there's an ongoing High Court case involved here (unless it's ended, last I reliably heard of it was a year ago at which time it was still ongoing sporadically) for a start, and lots of acrimony as well. We're here for ordinary shooters to discuss it, not to provide a platform for people to get a few cheap shots in. And while NGBs don't make policy decisions based on boards.ie threads, they do tend to notice the general feedback in here from time to time, and that usually leads to good things for shooters on the line. So be constructive...

Sparks

Moving thread out of Target Shooting to comply with the no-politics rule.

tac foley

Sparks wrote: »

Why not the General Overall Board of Shooting and Hunting Including Those Elite Shooters?

THAT does it for me. : )

tac

Half-cocked

Just wondering, if this new clay shooting association is CAI affiliated, are the clubs now able to get insurance through CAI? A couple of years back a club I was involved with wanted to get club insurance with CAI but it wasn't available, only individual member insurance. When we looked closely at the situation, we realized that if the club as an entity was sued the clubs officers would be hung out to dry as there was no collective insurance. The ICPSA insurance only covers clubs who's membership is exclusively ICPSA, likewise the NARGC compo fund. Do IFA Countryside offer club cover? I'd be wary shooting in a club that doesn't have full cover - if there was an accident you could be a long time chasing individuals for compo. Its especialy true with clay shooting clubs where you could get hit by a clay or injured by a trap, which would definitely be a club liability. I suppose the same would apply in rifle/pistol clubs with richochets etc - club rather than individual is liable.

boardie29

as far as im aware the group is affiliated to Countryside Alliance Ireland. The CAI offer a group insurance for groups of 7 people or more at a discount rate.

Sparks

Is that their group discount rate, or actual group insurance? WTSC has the group discount rate but it's not the same as group insurance.

cavan shooter

TellinDeTruth wrote: »

Been watching and had to comment.
I know JWS and he is one of the top shooters in the country and is a bit close to the story so he cannot be blamed for being passionate?
He knows the damage these people have tried to do to the ICPSA over the last 5 years and he loves his sport so in turn feels strongly about what is going on.
Maybe if everyone knew what these people tried and still try to do things might be clearer.
They tried to take over the ICPSA through LCPSA and lost. They tried to take over the ICPSA at AGM and lost. They tried the high court and lost. The tried politicians and lost. So will they be more succesful this time?
BTW from what I hear the people involved in this new group all appear to be banned from the ICPSA for different things.
They are not the LCPSA and have not been involved in the LCPSA since they were thrown out by the members 4 years ago at an EGM.
Surprise to hear that the English CPSA are involved. Not surprised to hear that CA involved. Perhaps the new organisation will be putting the union jack in their emblem? We Irish have a long history of calling in England when we do not get our way with our stronger neighbours...
€20 for 50 birds is the same price as for an ICPSA event in sporting but without the chance of a class prize though as flappers only reward the top guys. €20 is a lot more than in trap ICPSA shoots. So what is the point?
The ICPSA has over 1000 members so it is hardly elitist and a look at the results on the web site will show that the events have people from AA to C shooting every weekend.
The world fitasc is in Italy this week. There is an Ireland Team but also lots of individual ICPSA members. Moral? ICPSA members do it for the sport.
JWS is a past international shooter and he knows what it feels like to pull on the green vest.
Lots of ICPSA members get to do the same every year. Good for them. A lot more do not and still go to ICPSA shoots week in and week out. Moral?
It would not be a surprise to hear that ICPSA members were at yesterdays shoot. They will be taking the lions share at next weeks NARGC shoot too. What does that tell us? The ICPSA has the best shooters? The ICPSA is the top body?

Thanks for the explanation regarding all of the above I can see you and from JW's posts your passionate about your sport as are all lads here or they wouldnt be doing it, and I would include lads that shoot with friend s on a Saturday in a bog or at a grounds, does it really matter once they are enjoying themselves.
Unfortunately for whatever reason clubs and associations have falling outs and when this happens the usual result is a break away club/association doing the exact same thing. "usually it can be down to personalities or The club going in a different direction that some members want to go/

Sometimes clubs and organisations can get to big and loose direction

I know of many game clubs that end up splitting and pistol and rifle clubs have split (I am sure someone will correct me) doesnt mean it's going to have a detrimental effect on the original association, other than questions asked regarding. "how did we end up in this mess, what did we do wrong"

It was the first time I saw an advertisement for an "open shoot" inviting lads to "have a go" and see would you be interested in getting involved.

In relation to CAI they saw an opportunity in ROI in relation to insurance because of the closed shop around getting into "Game clubs" they saw that there is a market out there to offer insurance to individual shooters who have permission to shoot on land but cant get into a club and get NARGC insurance. They are UK based, but they also have a base here and appear to be representing their members quite well as there ranks are steadily increasing with many NARGC members carrying CAI supporter cards as well.

Countryside Alliance cant be blamed for that, ditto in this case, for whatever reason(s) CSI (Clay Sports Ireland) has been formed, as difficult as it is for guys who are die hard ICPSA members their is little point jumping up and down screaming no fair, its happened I dont know why?, and as someone who is only an NARGC shooter not really bothered? better to say best of luck I hope it works out for ye.

Grizzly 45

After reading this thread..Which amounts to yet another Bitchfest in Irish shooting politics.I'm not surprised we get steamrolled on every and any bit of legislation that comes our way.:rolleyes:

pedroeibar1

Sparks wrote: »

Is that their group discount rate, or actual group insurance? WTSC has the group discount rate but it's not the same as group insurance.

CAI has a discounted premium rate for individuals who belong to a group scheme i.e. one with more than seven members. An insurance policy is issued by AIG (or whatever it has re-named itself) to the group, with the covered individuals named on it.

The benefit of the group scheme is a cost of 45 or? 50 euro instead of an individual at 70euro. It includes membership of CAI and there is an EL/PL cover element thrown in for staff and shoot organizers. Cover is more geared to shoots/syndicates than to SC clubs I think.

I'm in a CAI group scheme, thankfully never had to make a claim.
Collecting funds from everyone is a pain, as all has to be done through one contact person and on one payment date.
Rs
P.

target

cavan shooter wrote: »

It was the first time I saw an advertisement for an "open shoot" inviting lads to "have a go" and see would you be interested in getting involved.

The ICPSA has run open coaching days, particularly for the general public to introduce them to the sport and for novice shooters wishing to improve.

All of which were run free of charge to the public. Like most things in our sport, a lot of good work goes quietly unnoticed.

Some examples of ICPSA open days.

National Shooting Grounds

Esker Shooting Grounds

Ballinasloe Shooting Grounds

boardie29

target wrote: »

The ICPSA has run open coaching days, particularly for the general public to introduce them to the sport and for novice shooters wishing to improve.

All of which were run free of charge to the public. Like most things in our sport, a lot of good work goes quietly unnoticed.

Some examples of ICPSA open days.

National Shooting Grounds

Esker Shooting Grounds

Ballinasloe Shooting Grounds

And were are they advertised???

Sparks

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055662166
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055378631
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055293792

I'd say yes, given that this forum is as close to a national clearing-house for that sort of thing as we have. I think there were mentions in magazines as well, but I could be remembering that wrong.

boardie29

It would be great if we could have something like national shooting week in the UK here and advertise it in national papers etc. to entice the public. Surly there are enough clubs up and down the country to organise something similar.

target

boardie29 wrote: »

And were are they advertised???

Getting anything publicised relating to Irish shooting sports is a monumental and frustrating task. Even when we have great news of international success it still does not warrant much if any response from media circles.

Recently, we had Derek Burnett win a European Bronze in an Olympic Sport and prior to that in 2007, Philip Murphy with a silver at the Worlds. The ICPSA worked the phones and media contacts solidly in both cases to try and get coverage. The results, zero interest and zero coverage. Not a single column inch in any national or regional newspaper, not a sentence on any radio station or TV channel.

Success in shooting sports, no matter how good it is, does not make any significant connection with the Irish media.

Until we can afford a professional PR initiative on an ongoing basis, we can only look to advertise and get coverage for home grown events through our own websites, boards.ie and through the Irish Shooting Digest.

The sad part is, should our sport ever find itself in a position to afford the services of a PR agency, someone will stand up at an agm and decry it as a waste of money that would be better spent on grassroot shooters.

pedroeibar1

The shooting fraternity is multidiscipline and some of those disciplines are as dissimilar as golf and rugby. It is like saying ‘We need a PR campaign for ball sports.’ The effort needs to be specifically focussed for each particular shooting sport and broad based for shooting in general.

Each shooter on this board should be an ambassador for shooting. To make that work solid information is necessary. For example, I’m primarily a rough shooter. I do not know when I last looked at the Target Shooting board, I've no participative interest but I would be quite happy to help its PR. I’ve heard of Burnett, never heard of Murphy (no disrespect intended). That should not be so. We should have a sticky on the general shooting board that could be updated with a table with the following headings:

Result achieved
Competitor name
Event name
No. of entrants
No. of countries

The only thing I agree with is that the existing bodies do a crap job on PR. ('cept for RISE.) The appalling nonsense of the internecine feuding in some of the above posts is a typical example.
P.

cavan shooter

I have to agree with the Pedro in relation to the above, I think looking at various personalities etc (small ponds big fishes) you would never get a over all body for shooting sports (you would think it would be so easy, we all have a similiar approach "lift point pull trigger hit or miss target"

Also whether its a fear of putting ones head above the paprapit and getting it blown off, discretion etc, all associations seem to fail miserably on this front.

The NARGC has the all ireland this week in Ardee and not a peep from anyone.

I already made a comment in the above posts that in relation to CSI that it was the first time I saw an open invitation to a shoot to encourage new members. Only to be told that they where advertised on boards, but advertised where shooters are frequenting not in a wider manner to make the interest.

I suppose there is also the cost implication, a radio add costs a lot of money as does a tv and even an add in the indo or times (I dont read red tops);)

But surely a main reason for an association (even a club) to exist is to raise the profile of the sport locally and nationally or internationally as required, only yesterday I heard a radio interview with lads that are involved with "extreme frisbee",

I think in the eyes of the general public shooting doesnt exist as a sport or its always negative. Out of interest when was ICPSA or any of the associations on the radio or any sports program plugging the sport of shooting

Grizzly 45

I think in the eyes of the general public shooting doesnt exist as a sport or its always negative. Out of interest when was ICPSA or any of the associations on the radio or any sports program plugging the sport of shooting

You would have to have some reason to be on the radio or TV first.That means some sort of media outlet has to take an intrest in you first.Personally,I think the Irish media is 95% anti gun/fieldsports anyway,so you are fighting an uphill battle for a start.I mean did anyone hear that when IPSC was legal here Ireland brought home a Gold medal in an international competition????Of course not,but if it was in the over 65 tiddlywink race,we would have heard about it.Look at the RISE rally in Wford,RTE gives about 20secs to the thousand on the street and a minute to 12 scruffy antis hiding under a banner!!

Half-cocked

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You would have to have some reason to be on the radio or TV first.That means some sort of media outlet has to take an intrest in you first.Personally,I think the Irish media is 95% anti gun/fieldsports anyway,so you are fighting an uphill battle for a start.I mean did anyone hear that when IPSC was legal here Ireland brought home a Gold medal in an international competition????Of course not,but if it was in the over 65 tiddlywink race,we would have heard about it.Look at the RISE rally in Wford,RTE gives about 20secs to the thousand on the street and a minute to 12 scruffy antis hiding under a banner!!

+1

Even within the wider sporting community shooting sports get the cold shoulder. I remember when Philip Murphy won a silver medal at the ISSF World Championships, there was no mention of it on the Sports Council website. Instead they had a big long piece about some runner who had come 15th or 16th in an event:mad: A former Irish times editor publicly stated that he didn't regard shooting as a sport and there would be no coverage of shooting events in 'his' paper.

The only time shooting associations are invited onto the TV/radio/print media is when they are asked to comment on gun crime etc. As if they are intimately involved in illegal shootings and can give an expert analysis of the latest gangland killing. Why? You don't see the chairman of Motorsport Ireland being interviewed about the latest joyriding incident or road fatalities. You won't see a spokesperson for the Golfing Union of Ireland being asked to comment when some thug beats another thug unconcious with a golf club.

In the eyes of the media, guns are evil, therefore their owners are evil. Other types of sporting equipment (and their owners) are not evil, they just sometimes get used for evil purposes. Guns just sometimes get used for non-evil purposes but the evil purposes make better headlines.

target

cavan shooter wrote: »

I think in the eyes of the general public shooting doesnt exist as a sport or its always negative. Out of interest when was ICPSA or any of the associations on the radio or any sports program plugging the sport of shooting

I've always been aware of a constant hum in the background from some shooters when it comes of actively participating and organising shoots, events, training, coaching, open days, education, PR etc.

That hum normally takes the shape of ".. not interested, I'm only here to shoot!"

I'm not taking a swipe at the general population of shooters here but merely pointing out that Spark's famous 2% rule really does exist and is alive and well in Irish shooting.

The 2% of volunteers can only do so much.

An organisation the size of the ICPSA and with as many responsibilities that it has, can only do so much with its limited resources. Take a good look around the ICPSA website, its got lots of content and is kept up to date on a daily basis. I don't know how much more an organisation can do to keep its own membership in the loop and project a positive image of shooting to the wider community.

Just because you don't hear about the ICPSA or Olympic Trap/Skeet/Sporting etc. shooting on the TV and radio does not mean that we are not contacting them and pushing our case. I don't see how a media organisation's refusal to engage with us can be seen as the sole failure of the NGB's. Remember, my earlier post. A lot of work in our sport goes on quietly in the background, not a lot of it gets rewarded but it is still gets done whether the TV stations pick it up or not.

Sparks

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

The only thing I agree with is that the existing bodies do a crap job on PR. ('cept for RISE.) The appalling nonsense of the internecine feuding in some of the above posts is a typical example.
P.

I'd have to point out there that (a) RISE has far more money and a PR agency to use; and (b) RISE is far younger and aimed at a single, short-term goal. It's a good example of what can be done, but it's not fair to compare it to a long-term sports NGB, whose main duties are to the sport itself first and for whom PR is a component of its raison d'etre, not it's sole purpose.

If you're to compare like with like, look at RISE's campaign and the campaign against the hike in licence fees a few years ago.

Sparks

cavan shooter wrote: »

I think in the eyes of the general public shooting doesnt exist as a sport or its always negative. Out of interest when was ICPSA or any of the associations on the radio or any sports program plugging the sport of shooting

Quite a lot actually. The ICPSA got a lot of coverage during the last olympics and the NTSA's gotten tv coverage during their finals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8KdH69bm9g

And both have a lot of local and national press coverage. So have quite a few of the other NGBs but I don't follow them quite so closely so I can't tell you exactly when and where - but you do see them.

Sparks

Half-cocked wrote: »

A former Irish times editor publicly stated that he didn't regard shooting as a sport and there would be no coverage of shooting events in 'his' paper.

Former? When did Malachy quit?

The only time shooting associations are invited onto the TV/radio/print media is when they are asked to comment on gun crime etc.

Not quite true, but we do get calls for that kind of thing from time to time, especially when people start mentioning changing the law. As to how good a thing that is, it's pretty much 50-50. There is such a thing as bad press for us, but no press at all can be just as bad (well, depending on how bad the bad press is).

You don't see the chairman of Motorsport Ireland being interviewed about the latest joyriding incident or road fatalities.

But you would if they banned all cars, without exception, with a top speed over 120km/h. Which is pretty much where we wind up every time they change the firearms legislation in Ireland.