Why oh why..the angelus?

socio

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news? RTE is the state broadcaster, for which we all ultimately pay for through licence fees. Given the extraordinarily unhealthy relationship between the Catholic Church and the state in Ireland, shouldn't we be trying to separate the two as much as possible?

Zombrex

socio wrote: »

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news? RTE is the state broadcaster, for which we all ultimately pay for through licence fees. Given the extraordinarily unhealthy relationship between the Catholic Church and the state in Ireland, shouldn't we be trying to separate the two as much as possible?

Any time that is suggested people, who I suspect really don't care that much about the actual Angelus, come out of the wood work complaining about the erosion of our history or some such nonsense. It becomes a focal point for people who think the country is on the wrong track. So they make a big deal about it and object and complain and RTE does nothing and sticks to the status quo.

So unfortunately I don't think it will be going away any time soon.

johnfás

I'm not a Catholic and the Angelus has no religious significance to me. However, I don't go around trying to make myself feel offended so I couldn't care less whether it stays on the air or not. I think that it does have a few advantages. It forces people to pause for a moment which is no bad thing - although it could be done in a less overtly religious way. It also has a usefulness in terms of being able to catch the headlines on BBC News at 6 before one switches over to RTE at 6.01.

Honestly, it isn't all that offensive.

JimiTime

Much ado about nothing IMO. I'm not a catholic, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't make me pause to reflect, and it doesn't make me annoyed. Its of absolutely no consaquence to me. As per Wicknight though, if there was a lobby to remove it, I would be concerned. Those who oppose such insignificant things, will usually be people I would oppose in general, and will usually have other agenda's which I'd be against. It does No good, and no bad IMO. Its merely part of our TV in Ireland. For those who whinge about it, either those who want to get rid, or those who want to see it return to some depressing looking middle age artwork, I just wish you'd STFU and do something worthwhile.

Twin-go

It should be reduced to 52.08 seconds.

Reason: Census 2006, 86.8% said they were Roman Catholic. So the duration of the Angelus should be reduced by 13.2% to reflect this.:D

The remaining 7.92 seconds should be made up as follows

0.482 seconds of Muslum call to prayer, (0.8%)
3.063 seconds of preaching by Other Christian Faiths (5.1%)
3.666 seconds of peace from the bells for the Atheist and non-religious (6/1%) (3.666 how ironic:D)
and finally,
0.715 seconds to be shared between all the other religions on this island (1.7%)

sealgaire

3.666 - brilliant! :P

Twin-go wrote: »

It should be reduced to 52.08 seconds.

Reason: Census 2006, 86.8% said they were Roman Catholic. So the duration of the Angelus should be reduced by 13.2% to reflect this.:D

The remaining 7.92 seconds should be made up as follows

0.482 seconds of Muslum call to prayer, (0.8%)
3.063 seconds of preaching by Other Christian Faiths (5.1%)
3.666 seconds of peace from the bells for the Atheist and non-religious (6/1%) (3.666 how ironic:D)
and finally,
0.715 seconds to be shared between all the other religions on this island (1.7%)

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote: »

As per Wicknight though, if there was a lobby to remove it, I would be concerned.

That wasn't quite my point.

I agree it is much ado about nothing but then is the point. I think it should be removed, I think it is pointless and silly. I don't think in an ideal world it should be necessary to have a big campaign to do this, I don't know why we can't just remove something like this without all the fuss but unfortunately when ever this is suggested a lobby of the usual suspects forms to complain about the idea of it being removed.

Why? I'm not sure. I doubt it is anything to do with the actual Angelus (I know no one, Catholic, Christian atheist, young old anyone) who actually uses the Angelus.

In my experience those who strongly object to it being done away with are those who fear an increasing secularization of the country, or the increasing modernization and multiculturalism of Ireland which they don't like.

So a lot of fuss is made over keeping what is in essence a pointless and out dated broadcast. It is hard to believe they actually require the angelus (after all nothing is stopping them privately taking a moment for reflection), more than they feel left behind in modern Ireland.

socio

johnfás wrote: »

Honestly, it isn't all that offensive.

I don't find it offensive, its merely one of life's little irritants (and this seems a suitable place to discuss it). It shouldn't be made a big deal of but simply removed from the airwaves. We seem to agree that no one takes heed of it, so then why are we playing it? Is it perhaps because RTE's MD (or whoever decides such things) was once a wee alter boy and still thinks the Catholic Church should be given a level of respect over and above other human beings who dress in diffferent outfits?
Me thinks it's a distinct possibility.

I duno lads, I'm pretty sure the Hah-vey Norman ads go on longer (or feel like it anyway)...

faceman

socio wrote: »

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news?

Perhaps the tuning knob on your radio is broken? Or maybe the on/off switch?

Zombrex

socio wrote: »

I don't find it offensive, its merely one of life's little irritants (and this seems a suitable place to discuss it). It shouldn't be made a big deal of but simply removed from the airwaves.

Exactly. In my experience the only people who make a big deal of it are those who don't want it removed.

Zombrex

faceman wrote: »

Perhaps the tuning knob on your radio is broken? Or maybe the on/off switch?

So the entire nation should switch off their radio or TV for 1 minute, then turn it back again all so a tiny percentage of religious extremists (and lets be honest here, even the most fundamental of the religious people on this forum don't bother with the angelus so we are talking the extreme of the extreme here) who probably don't even listen to it can feel better about living in a secular state?

Ummm, if only there was another option ... if only .... :pac:

Get rid of it. Anyone have an objection to that make your case.

But telling people, everyone as it turns out, to just ignore it seems stupid in the extreme, like everyone refusing to fix a hole in the road because it has "always just been there"

JimiTime

bluewolf wrote: »

I duno lads, I'm pretty sure the Hah-vey Norman ads go on longer (or feel like it anyway)...

ha ha. I'm right behind the lobby who gets rid of that particular irritation:D

dlofnep

I like the Angelus - It's the first song I learned how to play on guitar! I'm atheist but I see no problem with it being played.

niallers1

Is it not obvious?

It's a call to prayer. Believe it or not we are a Catholic country

If you ever go to Turkey you will hear the call to prayer even more often. About 5 times per day.

RTE broadcast the "programme" to cater for their Catholic viewers.

I don't like it either so I just switch station when it comes on. I don't dislike it enough to complain about it either.

Einhard

socio wrote: »

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news? RTE is the state broadcaster, for which we all ultimately pay for through licence fees. Given the extraordinarily unhealthy relationship between the Catholic Church and the state in Ireland, shouldn't we be trying to separate the two as much as possible?

Because you choose to? As far as I know, RTE doesn't send people around to houses to enforce respectful adherence to the Angelus broadcast. I'm an atheist and I really don't have a problem with it. I actually find it quirky that we have a 6.1 news rather than the usualy 6 o' clock news. Christianity is part of the fabric of Irish life and society, even for those of no faith, and I think if we start to strip away ALL aspects of our Christian heritage in a rush to become as secular as possible, then we risk eroding that which makes us different, however superficially, from other societies.

Einhard

Wicknight wrote: »

That wasn't quite my point.

I agree it is much ado about nothing but then is the point. I think it should be removed, I think it is pointless and silly. I don't think in an ideal world it should be necessary to have a big campaign to do this, I don't know why we can't just remove something like this without all the fuss but unfortunately when ever this is suggested a lobby of the usual suspects forms to complain about the idea of it being removed.

Why? I'm not sure. I doubt it is anything to do with the actual Angelus (I know no one, Catholic, Christian atheist, young old anyone) who actually uses the Angelus.

In my experience those who strongly object to it being done away with are those who fear an increasing secularization of the country, or the increasing modernization and multiculturalism of Ireland which they don't like.

So a lot of fuss is made over keeping what is in essence a pointless and out dated broadcast. It is hard to believe they actually require the angelus (after all nothing is stopping them privately taking a moment for reflection), more than they feel left behind in modern Ireland.

Just because something isn't actively observed or adhered to, doesn't make it inherently useless. The Irish countryside is littered with old ruins, churches, castles, round towers, megaliths, that will never be anything other than ruins. They are of no obvious benefit to society, but they're part of our heritage and we respect them as such. It's the same with Irish. Very few people could actually hold a fluent conversation in the language, but far more than can actually speak it, wish to see it protected and promoted. I look at the Angelus in much the same way. Sure, it's ignored by the vast majority of people, but I think it reflects part of who we were, and still are, and on that basis, I'd object to its removal.

dlofnep

niallers1 wrote: »

It's a call to prayer. Believe it or not we are a Catholic country

No we are not.

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

So the entire nation should switch off their radio or TV for 1 minute, then turn it back again all so a tiny percentage of religious extremists (and lets be honest here, even the most fundamental of the religious people on this forum don't bother with the angelus so we are talking the extreme of the extreme here) who probably don't even listen to it can feel better about living in a secular state?

Ummm, if only there was another option ... if only .... :pac:

Get rid of it. Anyone have an objection to that make your case.

But telling people, everyone as it turns out, to just ignore it seems stupid in the extreme, like everyone refusing to fix a hole in the road because it has "always just been there"

But we don't live in a strictly secular State. Read the opening lines of the constitution.

As a non-Catholic I don't particularly mind the Angelus. One can take it as a nod to our religious past (or present), as a reminder to take a moment to reflect upon whatever it is you like - and I notice that the TV version is quite vague in its religions references - or you can choose to see it as an issue. With regard to the more passionate forms of the latter, I'm reminded of this Christmas classic from a couple of years back.

lmaopml

It's a bit odd to say that only religious extremists stop for the Angelus when they hear it, whether ringing out from a Church or on TV, I know plenty of people that pause to say a prayer inwardly...

I do myself, and I'm not an 'extremist'..lol..I think that so long as there is an audience for the Angelus it will be on TV. The only time it ever becomes an issue is when one is made out of it by someone who doesn't like the idea of it, and thinks it's irrelevant and a nuisance to them...

I remember there used to be a 'blessing' before bed time, it was more like a thought for the day, rather quaint and different to the usual reality garbage on the rotbox that nobody seems to give out about........I think that's gone??

lmaopml

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm reminded of this Christmas classic from a couple of years back.

:pac::pac::pac:

Zombrex

Einhard wrote: »

Just because something isn't actively observed or adhered to, doesn't make it inherently useless. The Irish countryside is littered with old ruins, churches, castles, round towers, megaliths, that will never be anything other than ruins. They are of no obvious benefit to society, but they're part of our heritage and we respect them as such. It's the same with Irish. Very few people could actually hold a fluent conversation in the language, but far more than can actually speak it, wish to see it protected and promoted. I look at the Angelus in much the same way. Sure, it's ignored by the vast majority of people, but I think it reflects part of who we were, and still are, and on that basis, I'd object to its removal.

The angelus isn't a castle sitting in a field. It is TV broadcast, each day someone has to start the angelus.

lmaopml

Wicknight wrote: »

The angelus isn't a castle sitting in a field. It is TV broadcast, each day someone has to start the angelus.

Ahh Wicknight, c'mon! Some people want to buy carpets from Harvey Norman, and some people like to hear the Angelus bells...

'Some people', are people who make up the Island, it's not a big deal surely...It's been toned down to be across the board reflection as it is...We're a PC nation gone mad!

I don't doubt that one day the rotbox will be all about general broadcasting, but as it stands - it represents 'something' to us right here and right now to have the Angelus on TV..

..no big deal!

Denerick

Any time I'm at home with my folks they stop what they're doing and say the angela's. (Its actually a prayer, don't you know) I'm left there in awkward silence, having to endure the occasional annoyed glance from my mother. For reasons of social awkwardness, I'd love it if the Angela's were scrapped!

djimi

Im not in any way religious, I dont even watch RTE that often, but if the angelus wasnt on before the 6.01 news in the evening I think something would feel very wrong!

End of the day its a bell that rings for a minute before the news. Watch it or dont watch it, heed it or dont heed it, its not hurting anyone, its not offensive, and its hardly taking up hours of tv time.

Some people have too much time on their hands...

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

faceman

Wicknight wrote: »

So the entire nation should switch off their radio or TV for 1 minute, then turn it back again all so a tiny percentage of religious extremists (and lets be honest here, even the most fundamental of the religious people on this forum don't bother with the angelus so we are talking the extreme of the extreme here) who probably don't even listen to it can feel better about living in a secular state?

Ummm, if only there was another option ... if only .... :pac:

Get rid of it. Anyone have an objection to that make your case.

But telling people, everyone as it turns out, to just ignore it seems stupid in the extreme, like everyone refusing to fix a hole in the road because it has "always just been there"

The entire nation switches off TG4 when an irish program comes on that doesnt have english subtitles. Do we demand its discrimatory facism be removed from the airwaves?

Or what about the fast food adverts targetting kids, with a growing trend in obese chilldren in Ireland. BIllions is spent on studying the most effective way to target children with adverts. Do we demand those ads are removed from the telly because of their offensiveness?

Who are these religious extremists? Do we have Christian Bin Laden's hiding in caves in Connemara. I know very few people who watch, or probably admit to leaving on the angelus. My Grandmother does. She says a prayer when it comes on. Shes not an extremist. She doesnt ram religion down anyone's throat, in fact, looking back at my childhood, i think she ever asked me to go to Mass while i visited her. She acknowledges the angelus though. She doesnt go to McDonalds and she ignores their ads.

I have given you one reason why the angelus should stay. My Granny acknowledges it. You havent given any reason for it to be removed other than you dont want to watch it. Do I pay my tv license so you can decide what people watch/listen to?

60 seconds of bongs. Get over yourself.

Zombrex

lmaopml wrote: »

Ahh Wicknight, c'mon! Some people want to buy carpets from Harvey Norman, and some people like to hear the Angelus bells...

They do? What are the viewing figures like?

lmaopml wrote: »

'Some people', are people who make up the Island, it's not a big deal surely...It's been toned down to be across the board reflection as it is...We're a PC nation gone mad!

It only becomes a big deal when it is suggested we scrap this out dated tradition that hardly anyone follows and that actually breaks RTE's own internal guidelines (which they have slowly tried to rectify with a "multicultural" version of the Angelus re-branded as a time for reflection).

Then suddenly it becomes a really big deal, which is probably why RTE hasn't scrapped it by now. The thought of this being removed seems to really upset some people, which is odd considered how few actually watch it.

lmaopml wrote: »

I don't doubt that one day the rotbox will be all about general broadcasting, but as it stands - it represents 'something' to us right here and right now to have the Angelus on TV..

..no big deal!

Yeah so everyone who supports it keeps saying, but they seem to strongly want to keep it. Does that not make it a big deal to them?

Zombrex

faceman wrote: »

The entire nation switches off TG4 when an irish program comes on that doesnt have english subtitles. Do we demand its discrimatory facism be removed from the airwaves?

Sorry what? You think TG4 is discriminatory fascism?

faceman wrote: »

Who are these religious extremists? Do we have Christian Bin Laden's hiding in caves in Connemara. I know very few people who watch, or probably admit to leaving on the angelus. My Grandmother does. She says a prayer when it comes on. Shes not an extremist.

And I doubt your grandmother would care if it was gone.

I'm talking about the people who actually get really worked up when it is suggested that RTE simply stop showing it.

Zombrex

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, it means treating religious broadcasting equally, which RTE currently can't do because the angelus is a throw back to a time and culture that doesn't exist anymore. The angelus actually breaks current RTE guidelines.

RTE have tried to address this by rebranding the angelus as a moment of reflection, which is supposed to less blatantly denominational.

But because the vocal minority shall we say are opposed to what secularization of Ireland means RTE are in a bit of a bind.

On the one hand it looks rather silly that a public broadcaster that is supposed to following guidelines of secularism from its government is still broadcasting a specific tradition of one particular religious group.

On the other than that religious group still has a lot of power and influence in this country.

lmaopml

Wichnight, whether it's on TV or no, believe it or not, people will still stop at those times..We're a guiltless part of this society...

..Does it mean that much that it is broadcast...? No, suprisingly it doesn't..

For the vast majority it doesn't matter that much, whether there are dongs..

Take the 'dongs' for the minute it takes before the news.....feel free...