Why oh why..the angelus?

socio

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news? RTE is the state broadcaster, for which we all ultimately pay for through licence fees. Given the extraordinarily unhealthy relationship between the Catholic Church and the state in Ireland, shouldn't we be trying to separate the two as much as possible?

Zombrex

socio wrote: »

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news? RTE is the state broadcaster, for which we all ultimately pay for through licence fees. Given the extraordinarily unhealthy relationship between the Catholic Church and the state in Ireland, shouldn't we be trying to separate the two as much as possible?

Any time that is suggested people, who I suspect really don't care that much about the actual Angelus, come out of the wood work complaining about the erosion of our history or some such nonsense. It becomes a focal point for people who think the country is on the wrong track. So they make a big deal about it and object and complain and RTE does nothing and sticks to the status quo.

So unfortunately I don't think it will be going away any time soon.

johnfás

I'm not a Catholic and the Angelus has no religious significance to me. However, I don't go around trying to make myself feel offended so I couldn't care less whether it stays on the air or not. I think that it does have a few advantages. It forces people to pause for a moment which is no bad thing - although it could be done in a less overtly religious way. It also has a usefulness in terms of being able to catch the headlines on BBC News at 6 before one switches over to RTE at 6.01.

Honestly, it isn't all that offensive.

JimiTime

Much ado about nothing IMO. I'm not a catholic, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't make me pause to reflect, and it doesn't make me annoyed. Its of absolutely no consaquence to me. As per Wicknight though, if there was a lobby to remove it, I would be concerned. Those who oppose such insignificant things, will usually be people I would oppose in general, and will usually have other agenda's which I'd be against. It does No good, and no bad IMO. Its merely part of our TV in Ireland. For those who whinge about it, either those who want to get rid, or those who want to see it return to some depressing looking middle age artwork, I just wish you'd STFU and do something worthwhile.

Twin-go

It should be reduced to 52.08 seconds.

Reason: Census 2006, 86.8% said they were Roman Catholic. So the duration of the Angelus should be reduced by 13.2% to reflect this.:D

The remaining 7.92 seconds should be made up as follows

0.482 seconds of Muslum call to prayer, (0.8%)
3.063 seconds of preaching by Other Christian Faiths (5.1%)
3.666 seconds of peace from the bells for the Atheist and non-religious (6/1%) (3.666 how ironic:D)
and finally,
0.715 seconds to be shared between all the other religions on this island (1.7%)

sealgaire

3.666 - brilliant! :P

Twin-go wrote: »

It should be reduced to 52.08 seconds.

Reason: Census 2006, 86.8% said they were Roman Catholic. So the duration of the Angelus should be reduced by 13.2% to reflect this.:D

The remaining 7.92 seconds should be made up as follows

0.482 seconds of Muslum call to prayer, (0.8%)
3.063 seconds of preaching by Other Christian Faiths (5.1%)
3.666 seconds of peace from the bells for the Atheist and non-religious (6/1%) (3.666 how ironic:D)
and finally,
0.715 seconds to be shared between all the other religions on this island (1.7%)

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote: »

As per Wicknight though, if there was a lobby to remove it, I would be concerned.

That wasn't quite my point.

I agree it is much ado about nothing but then is the point. I think it should be removed, I think it is pointless and silly. I don't think in an ideal world it should be necessary to have a big campaign to do this, I don't know why we can't just remove something like this without all the fuss but unfortunately when ever this is suggested a lobby of the usual suspects forms to complain about the idea of it being removed.

Why? I'm not sure. I doubt it is anything to do with the actual Angelus (I know no one, Catholic, Christian atheist, young old anyone) who actually uses the Angelus.

In my experience those who strongly object to it being done away with are those who fear an increasing secularization of the country, or the increasing modernization and multiculturalism of Ireland which they don't like.

So a lot of fuss is made over keeping what is in essence a pointless and out dated broadcast. It is hard to believe they actually require the angelus (after all nothing is stopping them privately taking a moment for reflection), more than they feel left behind in modern Ireland.

socio

johnfás wrote: »

Honestly, it isn't all that offensive.

I don't find it offensive, its merely one of life's little irritants (and this seems a suitable place to discuss it). It shouldn't be made a big deal of but simply removed from the airwaves. We seem to agree that no one takes heed of it, so then why are we playing it? Is it perhaps because RTE's MD (or whoever decides such things) was once a wee alter boy and still thinks the Catholic Church should be given a level of respect over and above other human beings who dress in diffferent outfits?
Me thinks it's a distinct possibility.

I duno lads, I'm pretty sure the Hah-vey Norman ads go on longer (or feel like it anyway)...

faceman

socio wrote: »

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news?

Perhaps the tuning knob on your radio is broken? Or maybe the on/off switch?

Zombrex

socio wrote: »

I don't find it offensive, its merely one of life's little irritants (and this seems a suitable place to discuss it). It shouldn't be made a big deal of but simply removed from the airwaves.

Exactly. In my experience the only people who make a big deal of it are those who don't want it removed.

Zombrex

faceman wrote: »

Perhaps the tuning knob on your radio is broken? Or maybe the on/off switch?

So the entire nation should switch off their radio or TV for 1 minute, then turn it back again all so a tiny percentage of religious extremists (and lets be honest here, even the most fundamental of the religious people on this forum don't bother with the angelus so we are talking the extreme of the extreme here) who probably don't even listen to it can feel better about living in a secular state?

Ummm, if only there was another option ... if only .... :pac:

Get rid of it. Anyone have an objection to that make your case.

But telling people, everyone as it turns out, to just ignore it seems stupid in the extreme, like everyone refusing to fix a hole in the road because it has "always just been there"

JimiTime

bluewolf wrote: »

I duno lads, I'm pretty sure the Hah-vey Norman ads go on longer (or feel like it anyway)...

ha ha. I'm right behind the lobby who gets rid of that particular irritation:D

dlofnep

I like the Angelus - It's the first song I learned how to play on guitar! I'm atheist but I see no problem with it being played.

niallers1

Is it not obvious?

It's a call to prayer. Believe it or not we are a Catholic country

If you ever go to Turkey you will hear the call to prayer even more often. About 5 times per day.

RTE broadcast the "programme" to cater for their Catholic viewers.

I don't like it either so I just switch station when it comes on. I don't dislike it enough to complain about it either.

Einhard

socio wrote: »

Can any of you decent, well-informed types tell me why when I listen to RTE radio one I have to listen to the bells of the angelus before the news? RTE is the state broadcaster, for which we all ultimately pay for through licence fees. Given the extraordinarily unhealthy relationship between the Catholic Church and the state in Ireland, shouldn't we be trying to separate the two as much as possible?

Because you choose to? As far as I know, RTE doesn't send people around to houses to enforce respectful adherence to the Angelus broadcast. I'm an atheist and I really don't have a problem with it. I actually find it quirky that we have a 6.1 news rather than the usualy 6 o' clock news. Christianity is part of the fabric of Irish life and society, even for those of no faith, and I think if we start to strip away ALL aspects of our Christian heritage in a rush to become as secular as possible, then we risk eroding that which makes us different, however superficially, from other societies.

Einhard

Wicknight wrote: »

That wasn't quite my point.

I agree it is much ado about nothing but then is the point. I think it should be removed, I think it is pointless and silly. I don't think in an ideal world it should be necessary to have a big campaign to do this, I don't know why we can't just remove something like this without all the fuss but unfortunately when ever this is suggested a lobby of the usual suspects forms to complain about the idea of it being removed.

Why? I'm not sure. I doubt it is anything to do with the actual Angelus (I know no one, Catholic, Christian atheist, young old anyone) who actually uses the Angelus.

In my experience those who strongly object to it being done away with are those who fear an increasing secularization of the country, or the increasing modernization and multiculturalism of Ireland which they don't like.

So a lot of fuss is made over keeping what is in essence a pointless and out dated broadcast. It is hard to believe they actually require the angelus (after all nothing is stopping them privately taking a moment for reflection), more than they feel left behind in modern Ireland.

Just because something isn't actively observed or adhered to, doesn't make it inherently useless. The Irish countryside is littered with old ruins, churches, castles, round towers, megaliths, that will never be anything other than ruins. They are of no obvious benefit to society, but they're part of our heritage and we respect them as such. It's the same with Irish. Very few people could actually hold a fluent conversation in the language, but far more than can actually speak it, wish to see it protected and promoted. I look at the Angelus in much the same way. Sure, it's ignored by the vast majority of people, but I think it reflects part of who we were, and still are, and on that basis, I'd object to its removal.

dlofnep

niallers1 wrote: »

It's a call to prayer. Believe it or not we are a Catholic country

No we are not.

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

So the entire nation should switch off their radio or TV for 1 minute, then turn it back again all so a tiny percentage of religious extremists (and lets be honest here, even the most fundamental of the religious people on this forum don't bother with the angelus so we are talking the extreme of the extreme here) who probably don't even listen to it can feel better about living in a secular state?

Ummm, if only there was another option ... if only .... :pac:

Get rid of it. Anyone have an objection to that make your case.

But telling people, everyone as it turns out, to just ignore it seems stupid in the extreme, like everyone refusing to fix a hole in the road because it has "always just been there"

But we don't live in a strictly secular State. Read the opening lines of the constitution.

As a non-Catholic I don't particularly mind the Angelus. One can take it as a nod to our religious past (or present), as a reminder to take a moment to reflect upon whatever it is you like - and I notice that the TV version is quite vague in its religions references - or you can choose to see it as an issue. With regard to the more passionate forms of the latter, I'm reminded of this Christmas classic from a couple of years back.

lmaopml

It's a bit odd to say that only religious extremists stop for the Angelus when they hear it, whether ringing out from a Church or on TV, I know plenty of people that pause to say a prayer inwardly...

I do myself, and I'm not an 'extremist'..lol..I think that so long as there is an audience for the Angelus it will be on TV. The only time it ever becomes an issue is when one is made out of it by someone who doesn't like the idea of it, and thinks it's irrelevant and a nuisance to them...

I remember there used to be a 'blessing' before bed time, it was more like a thought for the day, rather quaint and different to the usual reality garbage on the rotbox that nobody seems to give out about........I think that's gone??

lmaopml

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm reminded of this Christmas classic from a couple of years back.

:pac::pac::pac:

Zombrex

Einhard wrote: »

Just because something isn't actively observed or adhered to, doesn't make it inherently useless. The Irish countryside is littered with old ruins, churches, castles, round towers, megaliths, that will never be anything other than ruins. They are of no obvious benefit to society, but they're part of our heritage and we respect them as such. It's the same with Irish. Very few people could actually hold a fluent conversation in the language, but far more than can actually speak it, wish to see it protected and promoted. I look at the Angelus in much the same way. Sure, it's ignored by the vast majority of people, but I think it reflects part of who we were, and still are, and on that basis, I'd object to its removal.

The angelus isn't a castle sitting in a field. It is TV broadcast, each day someone has to start the angelus.

lmaopml

Wicknight wrote: »

The angelus isn't a castle sitting in a field. It is TV broadcast, each day someone has to start the angelus.

Ahh Wicknight, c'mon! Some people want to buy carpets from Harvey Norman, and some people like to hear the Angelus bells...

'Some people', are people who make up the Island, it's not a big deal surely...It's been toned down to be across the board reflection as it is...We're a PC nation gone mad!

I don't doubt that one day the rotbox will be all about general broadcasting, but as it stands - it represents 'something' to us right here and right now to have the Angelus on TV..

..no big deal!

Denerick

Any time I'm at home with my folks they stop what they're doing and say the angela's. (Its actually a prayer, don't you know) I'm left there in awkward silence, having to endure the occasional annoyed glance from my mother. For reasons of social awkwardness, I'd love it if the Angela's were scrapped!

djimi

Im not in any way religious, I dont even watch RTE that often, but if the angelus wasnt on before the 6.01 news in the evening I think something would feel very wrong!

End of the day its a bell that rings for a minute before the news. Watch it or dont watch it, heed it or dont heed it, its not hurting anyone, its not offensive, and its hardly taking up hours of tv time.

Some people have too much time on their hands...

Plowman

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faceman

Wicknight wrote: »

So the entire nation should switch off their radio or TV for 1 minute, then turn it back again all so a tiny percentage of religious extremists (and lets be honest here, even the most fundamental of the religious people on this forum don't bother with the angelus so we are talking the extreme of the extreme here) who probably don't even listen to it can feel better about living in a secular state?

Ummm, if only there was another option ... if only .... :pac:

Get rid of it. Anyone have an objection to that make your case.

But telling people, everyone as it turns out, to just ignore it seems stupid in the extreme, like everyone refusing to fix a hole in the road because it has "always just been there"

The entire nation switches off TG4 when an irish program comes on that doesnt have english subtitles. Do we demand its discrimatory facism be removed from the airwaves?

Or what about the fast food adverts targetting kids, with a growing trend in obese chilldren in Ireland. BIllions is spent on studying the most effective way to target children with adverts. Do we demand those ads are removed from the telly because of their offensiveness?

Who are these religious extremists? Do we have Christian Bin Laden's hiding in caves in Connemara. I know very few people who watch, or probably admit to leaving on the angelus. My Grandmother does. She says a prayer when it comes on. Shes not an extremist. She doesnt ram religion down anyone's throat, in fact, looking back at my childhood, i think she ever asked me to go to Mass while i visited her. She acknowledges the angelus though. She doesnt go to McDonalds and she ignores their ads.

I have given you one reason why the angelus should stay. My Granny acknowledges it. You havent given any reason for it to be removed other than you dont want to watch it. Do I pay my tv license so you can decide what people watch/listen to?

60 seconds of bongs. Get over yourself.

Zombrex

lmaopml wrote: »

Ahh Wicknight, c'mon! Some people want to buy carpets from Harvey Norman, and some people like to hear the Angelus bells...

They do? What are the viewing figures like?

lmaopml wrote: »

'Some people', are people who make up the Island, it's not a big deal surely...It's been toned down to be across the board reflection as it is...We're a PC nation gone mad!

It only becomes a big deal when it is suggested we scrap this out dated tradition that hardly anyone follows and that actually breaks RTE's own internal guidelines (which they have slowly tried to rectify with a "multicultural" version of the Angelus re-branded as a time for reflection).

Then suddenly it becomes a really big deal, which is probably why RTE hasn't scrapped it by now. The thought of this being removed seems to really upset some people, which is odd considered how few actually watch it.

lmaopml wrote: »

I don't doubt that one day the rotbox will be all about general broadcasting, but as it stands - it represents 'something' to us right here and right now to have the Angelus on TV..

..no big deal!

Yeah so everyone who supports it keeps saying, but they seem to strongly want to keep it. Does that not make it a big deal to them?

Zombrex

faceman wrote: »

The entire nation switches off TG4 when an irish program comes on that doesnt have english subtitles. Do we demand its discrimatory facism be removed from the airwaves?

Sorry what? You think TG4 is discriminatory fascism?

faceman wrote: »

Who are these religious extremists? Do we have Christian Bin Laden's hiding in caves in Connemara. I know very few people who watch, or probably admit to leaving on the angelus. My Grandmother does. She says a prayer when it comes on. Shes not an extremist.

And I doubt your grandmother would care if it was gone.

I'm talking about the people who actually get really worked up when it is suggested that RTE simply stop showing it.

Zombrex

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, it means treating religious broadcasting equally, which RTE currently can't do because the angelus is a throw back to a time and culture that doesn't exist anymore. The angelus actually breaks current RTE guidelines.

RTE have tried to address this by rebranding the angelus as a moment of reflection, which is supposed to less blatantly denominational.

But because the vocal minority shall we say are opposed to what secularization of Ireland means RTE are in a bit of a bind.

On the one hand it looks rather silly that a public broadcaster that is supposed to following guidelines of secularism from its government is still broadcasting a specific tradition of one particular religious group.

On the other than that religious group still has a lot of power and influence in this country.

lmaopml

Wichnight, whether it's on TV or no, believe it or not, people will still stop at those times..We're a guiltless part of this society...

..Does it mean that much that it is broadcast...? No, suprisingly it doesn't..

For the vast majority it doesn't matter that much, whether there are dongs..

Take the 'dongs' for the minute it takes before the news.....feel free...

Zombrex

lmaopml wrote: »

Wichnight, whether it's on TV or no, believe it or not, people will still stop at those times..We're a guiltless part of this society...

..Does it mean that much that it is broadcast...? No, suprisingly it doesn't..

For the vast majority it doesn't matter that much, whether there are dongs..

Take the 'dongs' for the minute it takes before the news.....feel free...

That is my point. It doesn't mean anything to anyone except a vocal minority.

So why bother with it any more. Scrap it, like TV broadcaster do all the time, bring RTE up to current guidelines (their own guidelines) and don't look back. We live in a modern, secular world where other religions and faiths in Ireland exist along with the Catholics. There is no reason to not move towards this, or at least there is no reason that isn't wrapped in a cloak of anti-multiculturalism.

As it stands the angelus is blocking RTE's moves to produce a more modern less backwards public broadcaster. Catering for all religions and faiths in a secular society does not mean tweaking the current Catholic programming to be slightly more multicultural. RTE has modern religious broadcasting guidelines but the angelus is the elephant in the corner. While RTE is shackled with the angelus and 1950s thinking it is being held in the past.

Of course that is exactly what some people seem to want.

Plowman

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Zombrex

Plowman wrote: »

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You can't seriously think that the culture of the Angelus still exists in modern Ireland?

I think ignoring the reality of modern Ireland, or wishing to, suggests your own motivations here more than mine.

Plowman wrote: »

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I'm not quite sure how you can support that, half the countries Catholics don't go to mass regularly let alone practice the angelus. That is before you get to the issue of how many of them actually think the state broadcaster should be devoting special place to a particular religious practice.

But even if it was it is ignoring RTE's own religious broadcasting guidelines to disperse religious broadcasting among the different religious groups in Ireland. That in itself seems a perfectly good reason to drop it. I would imagine that far more Catholics are interested in that than keeping the Angelus.

Plowman wrote: »

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Because that is just a fudge on the part of RTE. It is still the Angelus, they are just trying to shove the square peg of multiculturalism through the round hole of a Roman Catholic tradition.

By scrapping the Angelus RTE would then be able to focus on actually bringing representative religious broadcasting to the non-Catholic religions in Ireland, which is their current religious broadcasting guideline.

That in itself would seem a pretty good reason to scrap it. And at the moment no one seems to be coming up with any reason not to.

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm not labeling Catholics as a vocal minority. I would imagine that the vast majority of Catholics in Ireland don't give a hoot about RTE broadcasting the Angelus.

I'm labeling a specific sub-set of Catholics who like to make a big fuss about stuff like this as the vocal minority.

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

That is my point. It doesn't mean anything to anyone except a vocal minority.

You have made this assertion multiple times before. Can you give a figure as to what percentage this minority would be?

Turtwig

Turn the Angelus into brief a Songs of Prayer esque show and it's got my vote. Right now I'll just vote with my remote to change the channel. In my view, I'd take the Angelus anyday over Reality TV, or sensational tv reporting.

dvpower

I wonder how RTE feel about it. I can't imagine that too many people switch over to RTE to listen to the Angelus, but I'd imagine that quite a number switch over to Sky News when it comes on (and don't switch back).

I wonder are RTE sacrificing numbers on the Six-One news to hold on to the Angelus.

Zombrex

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

You have made this assertion multiple times before. Can you give a figure as to what percentage this minority would be?

Small I would say. The actual angelus is watched by less than 10% of the population (prox 320,000), so even if we figured that every single person who watches the angelus is actually watching it for the religious tradition rather than just waiting for the news, and would be very upset if it was removed, it is still a small figure.

But of course that most likely isn't the case. While it is difficult to tell why a person is watching the angelus the fact that it is stuck on before the main evening news cannot be overlooked when assessing viewing figures.

Also the question is how many care that it is removed? Some people care strongly obviously such as those posting here, but it is hard to see that as the majority of even the 10% figure, let alone the population as a whole.

Lu Tze

Speaking as an athiest, i have no real problem with this, as it is part of RTE's religious programming. If people feel there is need to get rid of it, then all religious programming should be gotten rid of as it is one and the same, RTE either should have a mandate for religious broadcasting or not, this debate shouldn't be about the angelous specifically.

Unlike the catholic upbringing i had, i don't force my belief (or lack there of) on anybody else, which is why i don't have an agenda for forcing religion off the airwaves Its not for me, it is easy to opt out and not watch/listen to it, but for those that it brings solace to etc. i don't see why they should be denied it. If catholicism was a minority religion, would we be so vehement at trying to get rid of the angelus?

As ireland becomes multicultural i expect to see a lot more programming/documentaries on other religions which are becoming more prominent. Do i object to this as i don't adhere to any of them? No, as these programs can be informative and interesting.

liamw

Lu Tze wrote: »

Unlike the catholic upbringing i had, i don't force my belief (or lack there of) on anybody else, which is why i don't have an agenda for forcing religion off the airwaves Its not for me, it is easy to opt out and not watch/listen to it, but for those that it brings solace to etc. i don't see why they should be denied it. If catholicism was a minority religion, would we be so vehement at trying to get rid of the angelus?

So you would have no problem then if we had a minute for every single religion (just so we leave nobody out)? Is it also as easy to 'opt-out' of where you can send your non-religious kid to a school when 90% are church owned? Yep you just sit back there while others fight for church-state seperation...

Lu Tze

Is it also as easy to 'opt-out' of where you can send your non-religious kid to a school when 90% are church owned?

I do have a problem with being forced to bring you kids up in an ethos that is not what you want, there should be a neutral option. In many places there are gael scoils and educate together schools, which is a step in the right direction. What that has to do with religious programming on RTE which is what i was addressing?

So you would have no problem then if we had a minute for every single religion (just so we leave nobody out)?

I was mainly speaking about religious programming in general, it should either be allowed or not, the angelus is just one of the programs. I gave my view that i find some of the programming interesting. The angelus has been broadcast since i was a child.

Do you want to get rid of all religious programming? These programs can be informative for those unsure of their faith, and may help them find their own way, do you wish to take that away? Or the older generation who may be unable to attend mass/service, will be denied the broadcast on a sunday morning?

equivariant

As an atheist I am not particularly enamoured of the angelus. However I don't think that we should get rid. Instead, we should follow the lead of religion when it comes to dealing with customs from a different tradition - co-opt them for one's own purpose. e.g. christianity turned pagan winter festivals into Christmas

If it wasn't for the perceived religious association, probably most people would applaud the national broadcaster for having a minute's reflection. So just ignore the religious aspect if it suits you.

Zombrex

Lu Tze wrote: »

Speaking as an athiest, i have no real problem with this, as it is part of RTE's religious programming. If people feel there is need to get rid of it, then all religious programming should be gotten rid of as it is one and the same, RTE either should have a mandate for religious broadcasting or not, this debate shouldn't be about the angelous specifically.

That is not really the case. At the moment the angelus has a privileged place in RTE religious broadcasting, which is actually going against the point of their current guidelines, which are supposed to be more multicultural and less focused on any particular religion.

The angelus should be scrapped and RTE should take a fresh look at religious programming that is more inclusive, rather than trying to massage the angelus into a multicultural event which it really isn't.

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

Small I would say. The actual angelus is watched by less than 10% of the population (prox 320,000), so even if we figured that every single person who watches the angelus is actually watching it for the religious tradition rather than just waiting for the news, and would be very upset if it was removed, it is still a small figure.

Do you have data to support that figure of 320,000? According to the most recent data from RTE, if we are to take your 320,000 viewers as accurate that would account for something like 20% of total viewers (15 years +) across both channels at that time rising to 60% for the news. That 10% you mention appears to be viewers across all channels, not just RTE. Of course, I'm comparing your currently unsupported figure of 320,000 to RTE's official data for viewers.

Wicknight wrote: »

Also the question is how many care that it is removed? Some people care strongly obviously such as those posting here, but it is hard to see that as the majority of even the 10% figure, let alone the population as a whole.

If they don't care that it is removed then presumably they don't care if it stays. Do you have figures for people who are on the opposite end of the scale and passionately oppose RTE showing the Angelus? If the Angelus was modified to be more inclusive experience for other religions - drop the name and include images of minarets and the Star of David etc - would you be happy with it being shown?

Lu Tze

Wicknight wrote: »

That is not really the case. At the moment the angelus has a privileged place in RTE religious broadcasting.

Its not really like it can be moved to a different time slot

Plowman

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Fanny Cradock

In fairness, six-one wouldn't, I imagine, include those watching the Angelus. It is a separate programme - hence the name the name which reflects the fact that it starts one minute after six.

branie

If the Angelus did come on and someone started to pray, would you switch over?

Fanny Cradock

Me? I might switch over. Not because I'm offended but because I can do my own praying. Still, given that the Angelus appears to be going the opposite way, I think it unlikely that they would decided to go back to showing overt religious practice within the minute.

liamw

Originally Posted by Lu Tze View Post
I do have a problem with being forced to bring you kids up in an ethos that is not what you want, there should be a neutral option. In many places there are gael scoils and educate together schools, which is a step in the right direction. What that has to do with religious programming on RTE which is what i was addressing?

When you said: 'i don't force my belief (or lack there of) on anybody else', it appeared that you were saying that the best thing to do is to take no action in these circumstances, which I strongly disagree with. Perhaps I ahve misinterpreted you.

I was mainly speaking about religious programming in general, it should either be allowed or not, the angelus is just one of the programs. I gave my view that i find some of the programming interesting. The angelus has been broadcast since i was a child.

Do you want to get rid of all religious programming? These programs can be informative for those unsure of their faith, and may help them find their own way, do you wish to take that away? Or the older generation who may be unable to attend mass/service, will be denied the broadcast on a sunday morning?

I don't want to get rid of all religious programming. If there is a mass on Sunday morning on RTE then I can skip over it. However, if I wish to watch the national state news, then I don't see why catholicism has to be pushed in there. The news is not a religious programme, and thus should have no religious context.

branie

I mean non-religious people