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The Poor Can't Pay but the Goverment thinks they have 3 Billion to spare???

  • 08-07-2010 02:45PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28


    Bye folks time to delete this account


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Attempted tear dragger with classics such as "We did not cause it so why do we need to pay it?" (same line totted out by the unions as well I might add) and "The poor are unfairly targeted".

    The fact is that social wellfare etc. has increased greatly in a relatively short time span during the good days; yes, they need to pay and yes, there needs to be further cuts (esp. on combi set up of benefits etc.).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    As usual, private sector PAYE workers will pay alone for poor plus welfare fraudsters, public servants, bankers, developers, charity businesses, greedy retailers, greedy landlords etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    argh mee eyes, ze gogles do nothing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    same thing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    and again


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    aatraities wrote: »
    Is that better?

    I think its more the content than the formatting tbh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Can someone please explain to me what is the Irish poverty line ?

    As other poster has stated it ain't the poor ?? that will be paying, but the normal worker who doesn't happen to be cossetted by big primarily public sector union.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ClayDavis


    What the hell is the poverty line? How do you calculate poverty "rates"? And yes for the record I lived on social welfare payments for a few months. I lived very comfortably in fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    and again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    ClayDavis wrote: »
    What the hell is the poverty line? How do you calculate poverty "rates"? And yes for the record I lived on social welfare payments for a few months. I lived very comfortably in fact.


    SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTT


    know i know a liar when i here one Clay. You have all that basketball money hidden away now don't you?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    Amateurs seriously do I have to use Google for you????


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    aatraities wrote: »
    Seems Nody would be happy to live on less than the current dole if the situation arose for him. With 450k unemployed do ye out there are really think cutting to the bone is the best way to get out of this mess?
    Say hello to our friend the budget deficit; it is also known as living on borrowed money and adjusting your costs to what you earn...

    To avoid double post I'll put your post above here:
    aatraities wrote: »
    wow Nody no hiding which side of the line you fall on eh???
    Well I'm funny this way that I get a bit upset when people want to promise away the money I make. Now if you want to spend your money on the poor then be my guest, I'm not going to stop you but don't do it with MY money.
    But seriously even with the advances that were made in social welfare a vast number of those on such payments are still far below poverty rates. Does that seem like much of a gain to you?
    You want me to dig up the recent thread about the guy wanting to get his wife fired so they could afford a third child?
    I always have wondered why the nordic countries have such high replacements rates for social welfare and yet have such dynamic labour markets as well?
    Because using Denmark (the only real one with a dynamic market) offers you 3 years of studies/retraining (and the real deal not some FAS BS) in your life at ~90% of your old salary. After you have used up your 3 years you're out of benefits for the rest of your life basically and gets cut down to minimal benefits.*

    *This is from the top of my head, numbers and details could be wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    aatraities wrote: »
    Anyone here have any idea about the supposed complementary nature of high replacement rates and dynamic labour markets?

    Who out there with a decent job and good pay, no matter if they have seen a cut these past couple years or felt the huge increases in taxes can honestly say that they wouldn't be completely screwed if they had to live on the dole?

    Seems Nody would be happy to live on less than the current dole if the situation arose for him. With 450k unemployed do ye out there are really think cutting to the bone is the best way to get out of this mess?

    And how many of those 450k will be helped by keeping a high minimum wage that makes it unattractive to hire people ?

    Can I ask where the feck do you and the others think we can find the money to keep social welfare and public spending at the level it currently is at ?

    And please do not trott out the usual sh**e about taxing the rich.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    an again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    the same


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    and again


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    aatraities wrote: »
    Yeah that sounds good to me but how do you figure that driving people in to poverty is going to help the economy thereby getting the country out of the deficit problem?
    Lets see, actually accepting work for minimum wage? Not earning more from staying home? Actually having an incentive to get a job?

    The above category is the "permanent" unemployed who simply don't care.

    Now, what would it solve for the people actually looking for work? Well for starters they will not have to deal with a 15 Billion deficit to pay back with their future taxes with interest!
    We borrow a lot of money as a country (bank bailouts, tax breaks for the wealthy etc)
    Actually we have other threads on the bank bailout and the calculations, if memory serves it came out at less then 2 Bil a year. Tax on wealthy, well currently ~10% of the people pay in over 80% of tha PAYEE tax, hence you should ask why are not the rest of the people contributing more...
    but seems the relatively small amount needed to maintain social welfare rates where there are, which is below the poverty level seems to be just a line to far for you eh Nody???
    Considering our wellfare budget has not only balloned (see historical numbers) but also costs us billions a year, yes, it is perfectly in line with me. Esp. as the poverty line you wish to draw in the line is such a joke shown by people who has consistently posted here living on it.
    And since you seems so fond of the Yankee way of doing things whats wrong with their approach to the deficit?? How many trillion are they in debt now?
    We don't have a money press to print with; they do but beyond that "minor" issue please have a look at Greece, Spain or Romania and see what happens if the market don't want to borrow you any more money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    more of the same


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    aatraities wrote: »
    Oh please are you that delusional? 50 billion so far to keep the banks afloat but this 3 billion in cuts that will all come at the feet of the poorest in society is going to really help things?
    The poorest decided to stay home when they had chance to stop NAMA, now they will get what they deserve


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    aatraities wrote: »
    Do you feel the same about your money that is being given away to the banks? I bet you do but don't say it, as you cling on for dear life hoping what ever dismal share holding you have in either of the two pathetic Irish banks might not get completely wiped out.
    I don't have a single cent in Irish bank shares; nor before or after the crash (except possibly as indirect from a European/Global fund).

    As for the rescue, feel free to actually do your history on it. I've been against NAMA and the NAMA set up from day 1.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    aatraities wrote: »
    Yeah that sounds good to me but how do you figure that driving people in to poverty is going to help the economy thereby getting the country out of the deficit problem?

    We borrow a lot of money as a country (bank bailouts, tax breaks for the wealthy etc) but seems the relatively small amount needed to maintain social welfare rates where there are, which is below the poverty level seems to be just a line to far for you eh Nody???

    And since you seems so fond of the Yankee way of doing things whats wrong with their approach to the deficit?? How many trillion are they in debt now?

    Please stop right now before you have everyone laughing at you.

    There is a big difference between the US economy and ours, they print their own currency which is one of the major economic currencies in world, they are one of the major economic players in the world, they are a military super power and you are seriously suggesting we can play by the same rules as the US. :rolleyes:

    Basically you are saying lets continue borrowing.
    Does it ever cross your mind that some day someone will say WE ARE NOT LENDING YOU ANYMORE ?

    See Greece as example.
    aatraities wrote: »
    Oh please are you that delusional? 50 billion so far to keep the banks afloat but this 3 billion in cuts that will all come at the feet of the poorest in society is going to really help things? You are delusional aren't you?

    I think there are a lot of ways to come up with the money. One way would be to get people back to work. It's a neat idea because they stop getting social welfare and they start to pay taxes as well. Some like to call the a twofer. But we don't seem to have any money to spend on getting people back to work because why again???

    Shure if we are borrowing 50 billion for the failure of our banks we should add on another 3 billion a year to keep all the so called poor from abject poverty ?

    Back to work doing what ?
    Oh yeah we will produce goods that will be priced too high to sell, because our cost of production is so high due in part to major factor of high minimum wage.

    Yet again I find a person with a huge sense of entitlement.
    There is a mindset that believes that "well billions are being wasted on banks so why shoudln't we have billions fed to us".

    I am all for helping sick, blind, old, handicapped people and people newly unemployed, but there were thousands who did not work even during our boom times and these same ones are always first complaining with their hands out.
    Oh wait they are marginalised so they didn't need to get off their ar**es. :rolleyes:

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    ClayDavis wrote: »
    What the hell is the poverty line? How do you calculate poverty "rates"? And yes for the record I lived on social welfare payments for a few months. I lived very comfortably in fact.

    if you listen to the Unions they defined the poverty line at 36K a year :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    Poverty line is usually half the average national wage. So in Ireland poverty line is about €17,000 a year or about €350 a week but is falling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    I had forgotten how annoying boards.ie members are


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    Oh boards how long will this take?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 aatraities


    because understanding requires effort


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Don't feed this troll lads, he'll lose interest eventually


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    aatraities wrote: »
    Seriously refer to my post on the last page. You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

    http://www.socialinclusion.ie/poverty.html

    So what is your definition of "poverty line". That article does not give a definition. This one is from Combat Poverty

    This is also known as relative poverty, income poverty or risk of poverty. It is measured by setting a relative income poverty line, which shows how an individual's or household's income compares to the average. This line is usually set at a level between 40% and 70% of the average income.

    I suppose I should have said 55% of average income rather than 50% so sorry about that. Makes it about €18,500


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    aatraities wrote: »
    15 billion deficit? Where do you get your figures? The deficit stands currently at about 85 billion. How much of that is because of the lavish lifestyle of the poor?

    That would be the national debt not the deficit. Out of that 85bn figure, 4 billion currently relates to bank bailouts. The rest relates to an excess of spending over receipts on current and capital items.

    The deficit so far this year is 8.9bn, 5.9bn of that has gone to the department of social welfare.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    aatraities wrote: »
    We should be trying to get people to work.
    How?


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