Hip drive squat

bryanbal

What do you guys think of this method http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8 It has received some negative comments. I tried it and nearly injured my lower back.

d'Oracle

There have been threads on this.

brianthebard

How did you nearly injure your back following those guidelines?

d'Oracle

brianthebard wrote: »

How did you nearly injure your back following those guidelines?

I would guess that by not maintaining your back angle, your hips will rise faster than the bar. Then you need to do a good morning from a squat. Which will **** your back.

brianthebard

A good morning/gm squat doesn't necessarily **** your back, unless you lack the core/back strength to maintain the lift. It is a lot harder on the loewr back though obviously.

d'Oracle

brianthebard wrote: »

A good morning/gm squat doesn't necessarily **** your back, unless you lack the core/back strength to maintain the lift.

Maybe that is the case. OP?

bryanbal

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would guess that by not maintaining your back angle, your hips will rise faster than the bar. Then you need to do a good morning from a squat. Which will **** your back.

Hibs rising faster than the bar sounds about right. Technique prob bad and prob started too heavy.

Think i should stick to what i was doing.

Brian?

bryanbal wrote: »

What do you guys think of this method http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8 It has received some negative comments. I tried it and nearly injured my lower back.

I've never had any problem squatting like this. Are you sure you're doing it right?

What other "method" do you use?

Brian?

bryanbal wrote: »

Think i should stick to what i was doing.

It depends on if what you were doing was right. What were you doing?

d'Oracle

briankeating wrote: »

I've never had any problem squatting like this. Are you sure you're doing it right?

What other "method" do you use?

You could read the rest of the thread.:D

Brian?

d'Oracle wrote: »

You could read the rest of the thread.:D

Oh I did.


It didn't really answer my questions though.


Edit, well it did answer 1. The OP is not doing it right. As for the 2nd part, other method OP?

bryanbal

briankeating wrote: »

I've never had any problem squatting like this. Are you sure you're doing it right?

What other "method" do you use?

This way im driving from hips( too quick compared to bar). i used to feel it on quads more.

Brian?

bryanbal wrote: »

This way im driving from hips( too quick compared to bar). i used to feel it on quads more.

Are you saying that if you squat this way you're not feeling it in your quads?

I am not trying to be a príck, I am just mightly confused. Can you explain the differnece between how you normally squat to how the squat is performed in this video?

brianthebard

bryanbal wrote: »

This way im driving from hips( too quick compared to bar). i used to feel it on quads more.

You would feel 'it' in your quads a lot if you break with your knees instead of the hips but that doesn't make it better. Plus the video is trying to teach hip drive which will initiate the lift with the glutes and hamstrings a bit more meaning you'll probably have slightly less quad stimulation but a better lift overall. If performed correctly obv.

d-gal

brianthebard wrote: »

A good morning/gm squat doesn't necessarily **** your back, unless you lack the core/back strength to maintain the lift. It is a lot harder on the loewr back though obviously.

A lot of people find a good morning difficult enough as it is with 40kg. If the lad had 60kg or more on the squat (would be likely enough tbh) then he has a fairly good chance of wrecking his back, too much pressure

Hanley

Is it possible to thread ban people...?? Cos if it is, please do it to me. I'm about to start ranting.

Hanley

Too late.

That is one of the worst squats I've ever seen. Why the fcuk would you want ANYONE to squat like that??

Here's a great idea... I'm gonna teach people to look down while they squat, raise their hips first, kick the weight forward, put a sh!t ton more stress on the lower back and limited the amount of weight they're using.

Uuuuuuugh.

d'Oracle

I wish this video had never been made.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

I wish this video had never been made.

The thing that disgusts me is that everyone's so brainwashed by him that they can't see how absolutely stupid it is to squat that way.

d'Oracle

The thing that disgusts me is that this video, of Rip using a hand full of cues and about maybe 3 min of coaching along with an old video of Rip squatting badly, are used as a stick to beat Rip with.

If folk want to learn how to squat, surely they shouldn't look at beginners, look at more experienced lifters. I blame Tim Donahey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYeDpZfzEUY

That is how the squat should look. (read the style of squat being taught by Mark Rippetoe)
Note how the back angle stays solid. This guy got taught by Rip, uses hip drive and his squat looks ok, don't you agree.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

The thing that disgusts me is that this video, of Rip using a hand full of cues and about maybe 3 min of coaching along with an old video of Rip squatting badly, are used as a stick to beat Rip with.

What do you expect when a coach uses cues that teach someone to squat badly?

If folk want to learn how to squat, surely they shouldn't look at beginners, look at more experienced lifters. I blame Tim Donahey.[/squat]

If beginners want to learn how to squat, they shouldn't watch a video of a coach who's made his name coaching beginners, coaching a beginner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYeDpZfzEUY

That is how the squat should look.
Note how the back angle stays solid. This guy got taught by Rip, uses hip drive and his squat looks ok, don't you agree.

I still think the head down and elbows up position causes excessive forward lean, kicks the weight forward and makes it unnecessarily hard. Watch any big squatter, powerlifter or olympic lifter. You won't see the looking at the floor.

And don't even get me started on the matching sock/headband combo.

d'Oracle

If folk want to learn how to squat, surely they shouldn't look at beginners, look at more experienced lifters. I blame Tim Donahey.[/squat]

Awesome typo.

I'm sure you are right about the head down thing. I have noticed a much more stable squat since I have started pulling my head back towards the bar. Certainly I have to focus much more on keeping my back straight if my head is down.

TBH I can't imagine squatting elbows down. I would need someone to coach me at this if I were to try cos I cant get the bar to feel stable if I dont have them back.

On the video, its not that simple. This is not something that a coach would put out. Its pretty obvious when you look at this kid, that he has heaps of work to do. (Sort of like me) I reckon if you watched the DVD you wouldn't see a squat like that. Different people learn at different speeds, this video is supposed to be about the hip drive concept. How do we know he didn't spend 30-40 min fixing his back angle after that?

squod

How about full squats?

d'Oracle

squod wrote: »

How about full squats?

What?
You mean like Olympic squats?

Hanley

squod wrote: »

How about full squats?

What about them?

token

Hanley wrote: »

I still think the head down and elbows up position causes excessive forward lean, kicks the weight forward and makes it unnecessarily hard. Watch any big squatter, powerlifter or olympic lifter. You won't see the looking at the floor.

Can you elaborate on the elbows up position Hanley? I think that's what my elbows look like when I squat. How do you grip the bar differently?

I stopped the head down thing a good while back because I've huge trouble maintaining back angle when the weight gets heavy and that wasn't helping.

Carl Sagan

This thread has confused me greatly.

Hanley, do you have any videos of you squatting for reps? (Not a max effort)

squod

Hanley wrote: »

What about them?

Would there be a correction of the position during a full squat.

d'Oracle

squod wrote: »

Would there be a correction of the position during a full squat.

Bar position?

squod

My English is failing me tonight

d'Oracle

squod wrote: »

My English is failing me tonight

Well?
He may not be able to give you an answer if you don't fill that bit in.

squod

d'Oracle wrote: »

Well?
He may not be able to give you an answer if you don't fill that bit in.

Would your hips not make a more natural position during full squat. In other words the instructional video is for competition lifts or max lifts only and not an everyday technique.

Parsley

squod wrote: »

Would your hips not make a more natural position during full squat. In other words the instructional video is for competition lifts or max lifts only and not an everyday technique.

should your every day technique not be i-fooking-dentical to your max effort technique, ideally? you train yourself to be prepared for competition. train how you're going to compete and all.

squod

Parsley wrote: »

should your every day technique not be i-fooking-dentical to your max effort technique, ideally? you train yourself to be prepared for competition. train how you're going to compete and all.

Many joe soaps squat and only sometimes 1rm etc. Only asking like.

kevpants

Lol hanley thats the greatest typo ever.
[/squat]
I bet you accidentally substitute squat for words all the time.

"Sorry sir, do you have the right squat?"

"I'll have ham, cheese, some coleslaw and a bit of squat"

Hanley

token wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the elbows up position Hanley? I think that's what my elbows look like when I squat. How do you grip the bar differently?

I stopped the head down thing a good while back because I've huge trouble maintaining back angle when the weight gets heavy and that wasn't helping.

Very briefly...

Grab an empty bar, get your normal position, widen your grip ever so slightly. Now try to force your elbows under the bar while maintaining locked wrists (a thumbless grip helps for it). It's like you're trying to rotate your elbows in line with your body, almost to the extent they're going ahead of the bar. Do it right and your upper back will arch, chest picks up and everything locks in better.

I'll grab a vid of it if you don't get what I mean.

Carl Sagan wrote: »

This thread has confused me greatly.

Hanley, do you have any videos of you squatting for reps? (Not a max effort)

youtube.com/hanleycore - if you search for 200kg x5 you should find one. My hips tend to rise slightly faster than my shoulder's ala Rippetoe. It's not something I actively seek to do, and it's something that wrecks my head about my squatting.

squod wrote: »

Would your hips not make a more natural position during full squat. In other words the instructional video is for competition lifts or max lifts only and not an everyday technique.

With the stance they're using, you won't be able to "full squat" unless you've stupidly flexible hips so it's a bit moot. With oly squats your feet are closer together and your kness move forward more so your hips tend to travel straight up and down instead of back. Make sense?

kevpants wrote: »

Lol hanley thats the greatest typo ever.
[/squat]
I bet you accidentally substitute squat for words all the time.

"Sorry sir, do you have the right squat?"

"I'll have ham, cheese, some coleslaw and a bit of squat"

haha FML... brilliant.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Very briefly...

Grab an empty bar, get your normal position, widen your grip ever so slightly. Now try to force your elbows under the bar while maintaining locked wrists (a thumbless grip helps for it). It's like you're trying to rotate your elbows in line with your body, almost to the extent they're going ahead of the bar. Do it right and your upper back will arch, chest picks up and everything locks in better.

Hmmm, I never even noticed that the guy in video wasn't doing this. It makes a lot more sense to force your elbows under the bar to help keep your chest up, I've been doing this for a while.

How wide of a grip do you take? I try to keep mine as narrow as possible as I feel it helps keep my traps tight and squeezed.

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

Hmmm, I never even noticed that the guy in video wasn't doing this. It makes a lot more sense to force your elbows under the bar to help keep your chest up, I've been doing this for a while.

How wide of a grip do you take? I try to keep mine as narrow as possible as I feel it helps keep my traps tight and squeezed.

As wide as I need to... It's slightly wider than normal when I do low bar squat at the moment because I'm carrying a shoulder injury, but normally I'd have my pinkies or ring finger on the rings of an oly bar.

brianthebard

Hanley wrote: »

I still think the head down and elbows up position causes excessive forward lean, kicks the weight forward and makes it unnecessarily hard. Watch any big squatter, powerlifter or olympic lifter. You won't see the looking at the floor.

And don't even get me started on the matching sock/headband combo.

Lately I've been squatting with my head down a bit more and it helps me keep a neutral lower back imo, however I think that's mainly down to my back curve and I doubt its necessary for the majority. On the elbows thing, I think this vid has been treated in the past/online as the definitive ripp squat lesson, when really its just a snapshot of how he teaches. If he got the guy to work on a dozen different cues at once he'd have a terrible time trying to work it all out. It looks to me at least that that session was the day he sorted out the kids hip drive and back arch, and next week maybe he fixed the elbows. That's how it seems to me anyways....