Dublin vs Tipperary Qualifiers Round 2

cossieman

On Saturday for the dublin tipperary will it be pay in to Croke Park as well as obviously ticket's?

Trampas

I doubt it will be pay at the door but there is places near by that will be selling tickets

jameshayes

they are for sale on ticketmaster

dcr22B

cossieman wrote: »

On Saturday for the dublin tipperary will it be pay in to Croke Park as well as obviously ticket's?

It's all ticket but don't worry they'll be lucky to get 35k through the gates on Saturday.

An Citeog

cossieman wrote: »

On Saturday for the dublin tipperary will it be pay in to Croke Park as well as obviously ticket's?

Croke Park don't do pay at the gate but there should be ticket vans around on Ballybough Road, Drumcondra Road and North Circular Rd on the day. Stand tickets are €20 and €15 for the Hill.

Shane10

dcr22B wrote: »

It's all ticket but don't worry they'll be lucky to get 35k through the gates on Saturday.

will they even get this? oxegen heads will be camping for the weekend and with it been tipp could be an empty looking croke park.

dcr22B

Shane10 wrote: »

will they even get this? oxegen heads will be camping for the weekend and with it been tipp could be an empty looking croke park.

I think 35k is the MAXIMUM that they can expect to get.

flahavaj

Is the Dublin/Clare hurling match on at the same time?

An Citeog

flahavaj wrote: »

Is the Dublin/Clare hurling match on at the same time?

Dublin/Clare is on at 4 and Dublin/Tipp at 6, both in Croke Park.

flahavaj

An Citeog wrote: »

Dublin/Clare is on at 4 and Dublin/Tipp at 6, both in Croke Park.

Nice one. Might saunter up for a look on the day, the hurling should be a decent clash.

dcr22B

Rumoured Dublin 15 to start on Saturday:

Cluxton

Fitzsimmons O'Carroll MacMahon

Henry Brennan Nolan

McConnell McAuley

A.Brogan Corkery Flynn

B.Brogan O'Gara KevMc

Drummerboy2

dcr22B wrote: »

Rumoured Dublin 15 to start on Saturday:

Cluxton

Fitzsimmons O'Carroll MacMahon

Henry Brennan Nolan

McConnell McAuley

A.Brogan Corkery Flynn

B.Brogan O'Gara KevMc

Yea, heard thats the team alright. Fennell injured, Cahill, Cullen and Quinn all dropped. Management don't seem to know what they are doing, all at sea. Tipp in with a great chance of progressing.

Shane10

wow that looks a poor side, lucky its tipp you got in the draw. was a time when you looked at a dub side and the names rolled of your tongue. God help you if the brogans had an off day.....:D

Floppybits

dcr22B wrote: »

Rumoured Dublin 15 to start on Saturday:

Cluxton

Fitzsimmons O'Carroll MacMahon

Henry Brennan Nolan

McConnell McAuley

A.Brogan Corkery Flynn

B.Brogan O'Gara KevMc

I take it Keaney has been dropped as well. I wonder if there is any chance Daly will nick for the hurlers. Surely there must be a better midfielder in Dublin other than McConnell?

Shane10

Floppybits wrote: »

I take it Keaney has been dropped as well.

keaney is a class player, why would he be dropped. has gilroy lost the plot or what with dublin. looks like this whole we need to rebuild dublin to challenge for Sam has gone so badly wrong its not funny.(maybe for the rest of us but not for the dubs)..

Trampas

Keep trying new things and hopefully something will work if you ask me.

Got my tickets today. I say it will be a quiet turnout.

Need to check the train times as service is poor on Saturday on Maynooth line.

Probably extra trains on but these are usually kept a secret

dcr22B

Shane10,

I'm not laughing

We're turning into the laughing stock of the GAA and the final straw really will be if the Premier beat us on Saturday evening.

It's been an awful year for Dublin intercounty football (the good league performances count for diddly squat now).

Shane10

dcr22B wrote: »

Shane10,

I'm not laughing

We're turning into the laughing stock of the GAA and the final straw really will be if the Premier beat us on Saturday evening.

It's been an awful year for Dublin intercounty football (the good league performances count for diddly squat now).

ha, neither am i if im honest. i like watching the dubs and the GAA needs you. i just look at the team now and it just looks so average, i think he was to quick to get rid of some of the "older" players. your more behind an all ireland now than you were 2 years ago, id say light years away at the minute.

popebenny16

i actually think its the right sort of selection. if gilroy is to stick to any of his plans then he has to go back to what he promised at the start of the year - a new selection and a new approach. he has ditched both from the second half of the wexford match and only for wexford running out of steam we would have lost. not that ditching the new approach did anything for us against meath.

now in the qualifiers and in theory having a couple of easier matches dublin shoud revert to the plan from the new year and also use this time to blood the new crop. after all, gilroy said this was only an experimental year. he spent all year driving down expectations so i really dont understand why he would want to abandon it now. maybe sacrifcing this year for the benefit of future years is actually the way to go. we know all about the failings of the tesms from 2002 onwards there really was no need to see them again against meath.

blackbelt

popebenny16 wrote: »

i actually think its the right sort of selection. if gilroy is to stick to any of his plans then he has to go back to what he promised at the start of the year - a new selection and a new approach. he has ditched both from the second half of the wexford match and only for wexford running out of steam we would have lost. not that ditching the new approach did anything for us against meath.

now in the qualifiers and in theory having a couple of easier matches dublin shoud revert to the plan from the new year and also use this time to blood the new crop. after all, gilroy said this was only an experimental year. he spent all year driving down expectations so i really dont understand why he would want to abandon it now. maybe sacrifcing this year for the benefit of future years is actually the way to go. we know all about the failings of the tesms from 2002 onwards there really was no need to see them again against meath.

I think it is this simple.The plan for the league worked but brought limited success only.We caught Kerry,Monaghan,Derry off guard and they couldn't cope.The same format just does not work when applied to the open spaces of Croke Park.Westmeath thought they could pull it off and they were motoring along nicely until we beat them in Croke Park in 2008.We never saw them use it again.

Quite simply put,we don't have a gameplan anymore.When we beat Tyrone in Omagh we were playing a very open style of play and it worked but challenge matches before the championship must have been telling Gilroy something differently.Teams like Cork,Kerry and even Meath have a good record against northern teams who use the defensive swarm like Tyrone,Armagh and Monaghan.How we went out on the pitch caught between 2 different gameplans made us look like headless chickens.

The full back line which wasn't tested against Wexford were left stranded by an onrushing trio of Bray,Reilly and Sheridan and those players are extremely powerful.We also have players who have no grasp of the basics.Yes O Carroll,McMahon and Fitzsimons all went for the same ball and messed up and Sheridan tucked it away past Cluxton.

I feel there is too much urgency for change.Last year we had a perfectly good full back in Denis Bastick.Why is he being thrown out to the half back line?He could have dealt with Bray or Sheridan more effectively.

We were doing all the right things in the first half against Meath.Although we were level,the spine of our team was rather inexperienced.I agree with what Gilroy is doing with the new players but his implementation of it leaves a lot to be desired.


My starting 15 for Saturday would be a lot different to whats on offer.We really need a proper balance of youth and experience.If only we had Ryan,Sherlock and Vaughan available,this team would be even more formidable.

---

Cluxton

---

Henry

---

Bastick

---

Casey

Cahill

---

O Sullivan

---

Brennan

---

McAuley----Magee

---

Flynn

---

A.Brogan

---

Andrews

Keaney

---

B. Brogan

---

McManoman


Subs.

1.O Carroll
2.Quinn
3.Cullen
4.O Gara
5.Hubbard

Leroy Lita

Shane10 wrote: »

lucky its tipp you got in the draw.

whats that suppose to mean?? dont underestimate this tipp team.

gooch2k9

On TV?

dcr22B

gooch2k9 wrote: »

On TV?

TV3.

gooch2k9

They shouldn't be let broadcast these matches if they can't provide a signal to the whole country:(

Hammer Archer

Leroy Lita wrote: »

whats that suppose to mean?? dont underestimate this tipp team.

Exactly! Tipperary beat Meath in the league and will be no pushovers against Dublin.

popebenny16

rather dissapointingly there is a campaign down here to get 5000 supporters to the match on saturday, offering b&b at discount rates and buses and all. surely they would hope to get more than that there?

there was an article in the paper about sherlock yesterday, saying he has not retired, and i agree about vaughan. another lost talent. ok, temprament an issue but that is something you should be able to work on.

Mullet

popebenny16 wrote: »

rather dissapointingly there is a campaign down here to get 5000 supporters to the match on saturday, offering b&b at discount rates and buses and all. surely they would hope to get more than that there?

there was an article in the paper about sherlock yesterday, saying he has not retired, and i agree about vaughan. another lost talent. ok, temprament an issue but that is something you should be able to work on.

Its all about having good man management skills and whelroy have none. Yea they won a club championship with vinnies but just to remind the young ones on here that back in 1996 whelan got the dublin gig and dismantled an all ireland winning team. Senior players were got rid of just like this time round.

What dublin manager has the comfort of getting rid of a current all star from 2008 as surplus to requirements. I really fear saturday dublin are there for the taking.

Het-Field

blackbelt wrote: »

I think it is this simple.The plan for the league worked but brought limited success only.We caught Kerry,Monaghan,Derry off guard and they couldn't cope.The same format just does not work when applied to the open spaces of Croke Park.Westmeath thought they could pull it off and they were motoring along nicely until we beat them in Croke Park in 2008.We never saw them use it again.

Quite simply put,we don't have a gameplan anymore.When we beat Tyrone in Omagh we were playing a very open style of play and it worked but challenge matches before the championship must have been telling Gilroy something differently.Teams like Cork,Kerry and even Meath have a good record against northern teams who use the defensive swarm like Tyrone,Armagh and Monaghan.How we went out on the pitch caught between 2 different gameplans made us look like headless chickens.

The full back line which wasn't tested against Wexford were left stranded by an onrushing trio of Bray,Reilly and Sheridan and those players are extremely powerful.We also have players who have no grasp of the basics.Yes O Carroll,McMahon and Fitzsimons all went for the same ball and messed up and Sheridan tucked it away past Cluxton.

I feel there is too much urgency for change.Last year we had a perfectly good full back in Denis Bastick.Why is he being thrown out to the half back line?He could have dealt with Bray or Sheridan more effectively.

We were doing all the right things in the first half against Meath.Although we were level,the spine of our team was rather inexperienced.I agree with what Gilroy is doing with the new players but his implementation of it leaves a lot to be desired.


My starting 15 for Saturday would be a lot different to whats on offer.We really need a proper balance of youth and experience.If only we had Ryan,Sherlock and Vaughan available,this team would be even more formidable.

---

Cluxton

---

Henry

---

Bastick

---

Casey

Cahill

---

O Sullivan

---

Brennan

---

McAuley----Magee

---

Flynn

---

A.Brogan

---

Andrews

Keaney

---

B. Brogan

---

McManoman


Subs.

1.O Carroll
2.Quinn
3.Cullen
4.O Gara
5.Hubbard

Be careful ! Denis Bastick was badly skinned by Gooch Cooper for the crucial goal in the QF last year. He is also notoriously liable to throw the head, as was displayed against Wexford in June. However, I can see your point. I also feel Bastick would not ahve been as badly exposed by a decent Meath attacking department. He is a man with height, which was the crucil difference between Dublin conceeding two goals (and keeping Meath in touching distance), and conceeding five goals, and losing by 13 points.

Another option at Full-Back is Barry Cahill. The man performed the role perfectly well in 2006, and shouldnt have been taken out of there in 2007. Equally, the much maligned Ross McConnell is a man of height and has plenty of experience at full-back.. Shame Paul Griffin is fecked for the season.

I would also like to see Casey at Right half. The man was taken out of the position in 2008, with no probative evidence pointing towards that as being the right decision. Casey rarely fcuked up in the Championship, and was unfairly scapegoated as one of Caffrey's "Sacred Cows". Naturally, that never extended to the likes of Keaney.

Kevin McManamon was unfairly dropped after the Wexford game. He played left full forward in one of the most inept halfs of football that Dublin have played in many years and he paid the price. I would be glad to see him back. I would also like to see Kevin Bonner at Left Half Forward, and give him a chance to assert himself as a man who cann assert himself over the breaking ball.

I would endorse your views that Andrews and McCauley should be given starts. I would also be open to giving Pat Burke a run, along with Eamonn O Gara.

I do believe we are limited. I also bellieve that if we had not lost Shane Ryan, Ciaran Whelan to retirement, Paul Griffin and Mark Davoren to Injury and Jason Sherlock and Mark Vaughan to lack of favouritism, we would be in better shape.

It is hard to pick a team for this weekened, but let me try !

---

Cluxton

---

Henry

---

Bastick

---

Conlon

Casey

---

OSullivan

---

Cullen

---

McCauley

---

McConnell

---

Flynn

---

A.Brogan

---

Bonner

O'Gara

---

B.Brogan

---

K.McManamon

Drummerboy2

Het-Field wrote: »

Be careful ! Denis Bastick was badly skinned by Gooch Cooper for the crucial goal in the QF last year. He is also notoriously liable to throw the head, as was displayed against Wexford in June. However, I can see your point. I also feel Bastick would not ahve been as badly exposed by a decent Meath attacking department. He is a man with height, which was the crucil difference between Dublin conceeding two goals (and keeping Meath in touching distance), and conceeding five goals, and losing by 13 points.

Another option at Full-Back is Barry Cahill. The man performed the role perfectly well in 2006, and shouldnt have been taken out of there in 2007. Equally, the much maligned Ross McConnell is a man of height and has plenty of experience at full-back.. Shame Paul Griffin is fecked for the season.

I would also like to see Casey at Right half. The man was taken out of the position in 2008, with no probative evidence pointing towards that as being the right decision. Casey rarely fcuked up in the Championship, and was unfairly scapegoated as one of Caffrey's "Sacred Cows". Naturally, that never extended to the likes of Keaney.

Kevin McManamon was unfairly dropped after the Wexford game. He played left full forward in one of the most inept halfs of football that Dublin have played in many years and he paid the price. I would be glad to see him back. I would also like to see Kevin Bonner at Left Half Forward, and give him a chance to assert himself as a man who cann assert himself over the breaking ball.

I would endorse your views that Andrews and McCauley should be given starts. I would also be open to giving Pat Burke a run, along with Eamonn O Gara.

I do believe we are limited. I also bellieve that if we had not lost Shane Ryan, Ciaran Whelan to retirement, Paul Griffin and Mark Davoren to Injury and Jason Sherlock and Mark Vaughan to lack of favouritism, we would be in better shape.

It is hard to pick a team for this weekened, but let me try !

---

Cluxton

---

Henry

---

Bastick

---

Conlon

Casey

---

OSullivan

---

Cullen

---

McCauley

---

McConnell

---

Flynn

---

A.Brogan

---

Bonner

O'Gara

---

B.Brogan

---

K.McManamon

Well O'Sullivan is injured for Saturday for starters. Conlon is about 28 years old and still hasn't played in the championship, which is worrying. Bonner has had many, many chances over the years and failed miserably on each occasion. One of the few things I'm pleased with is that they have kept faith with the young full back line, who will come good for the team. They will have learned a lot from the Meath game.

Its sad that it has come to this but another plus for the Dubs is that Tipp has lost a few players to the US for the summer. This seems the lowest ebb for Dublin football since the very early 70s.

blackbelt

Het-Field wrote: »

Be careful ! Denis Bastick was badly skinned by Gooch Cooper for the crucial goal in the QF last year. He is also notoriously liable to throw the head, as was displayed against Wexford in June. However, I can see your point. I also feel Bastick would not ahve been as badly exposed by a decent Meath attacking department. He is a man with height, which was the crucil difference between Dublin conceeding two goals (and keeping Meath in touching distance), and conceeding five goals, and losing by 13 points.

Another option at Full-Back is Barry Cahill. The man performed the role perfectly well in 2006, and shouldnt have been taken out of there in 2007. Equally, the much maligned Ross McConnell is a man of height and has plenty of experience at full-back.. Shame Paul Griffin is fecked for the season.

I would also like to see Casey at Right half. The man was taken out of the position in 2008, with no probative evidence pointing towards that as being the right decision. Casey rarely fcuked up in the Championship, and was unfairly scapegoated as one of Caffrey's "Sacred Cows". Naturally, that never extended to the likes of Keaney.

Kevin McManamon was unfairly dropped after the Wexford game. He played left full forward in one of the most inept halfs of football that Dublin have played in many years and he paid the price. I would be glad to see him back. I would also like to see Kevin Bonner at Left Half Forward, and give him a chance to assert himself as a man who cann assert himself over the breaking ball.

I would endorse your views that Andrews and McCauley should be given starts. I would also be open to giving Pat Burke a run, along with Eamonn O Gara.

I do believe we are limited. I also bellieve that if we had not lost Shane Ryan, Ciaran Whelan to retirement, Paul Griffin and Mark Davoren to Injury and Jason Sherlock and Mark Vaughan to lack of favouritism, we would be in better shape.

It is hard to pick a team for this weekened, but let me try !

---

Cluxton

---

Henry

---

Bastick

---

Conlon

Casey

---

OSullivan

---

Cullen

---

McCauley

---

McConnell

---

Flynn

---

A.Brogan

---

Bonner

O'Gara

---

B.Brogan

---

K.McManamon

Not a bad team you got there but I'd just have reservations over McConnell,Bonner and O Gara (starting).

McConnell is probably one of the better fielders of the ball once he is in possession but for me he just doesn't work hard enough to get more primary possession and he doesn't use that height he has been blessed with to make it count.

Kevin Bonner has never cut it at this level in the championship.I'd be very surprised if he'd ever come on in any big game and turn the fortunes of Dublin if they were in trouble.He never contributes anything in terms of scoring and it just amazes me how he has survived this long while the likes of Vaughan,Sherlock,Brendan McManoman,Blaine Kelly and John O Brien have been exiled.Those last 3 names I mentioned just seemed to disappear without anybody noticing.They are good players and offer something new up front.

O Gara hadn't seen much league action.He played reasonably well in the O Byrne Cup but as the year progresses,so does the standard and I think the lack of matches is holding him back from the player he could be.He shows well for the ball and it usually takes 2-3 players collectively to dislodge the ball from his grasp but has he got the pace to last 50-70 minutes?As much as I hate to think it but he'd be my bet on first player being called ashore.

Andrews though is a big loss.I would have liked to see him as wing forward alongside Alan Brogan.Think they have a good understanding and team ethic.

Going back to Bastick,I think he has all the tools to be Dublins full back.There seems to be a problem in Dublin football where if we get beaten out the gate,our full back is the first position to be scrutinised.I don't remember Bastic having an absolute nightmare of a game.Sure Gooch skinned him but Kerry will always find a way to get a goal in each game.He did mark Donaghy out of the game in Parnell Park last year.It is a knee jerk reaction to something that isn't necessarily a problem.

dcr22B

All I can say is:

corny

20 Euro for a ticket but is there the usual student refund at the Cusack Stand?

Frank Spencer

DUBLIN (SF v Tipperary)

1.Stephen Cluxton
2.Michael Fitzsimons
3.Rory O’Carroll
4.Philly McMahon
5.Kevin Nolan
6.Ger Brennan
7.David Henry
8.Michael Dara McAuley
9.Ross McConnell
10.Niall Corkery
11.Alan Brogan
12.Paul Flynn
13.Bernard Brogan
14.Eoghan O’Gara
15.Kevin McManamon

An Citeog

corny wrote: »

20 Euro for a ticket but is there the usual student refund at the Cusack Stand?

Yeah, the usual concessions apply. I assume it's €10 but could be wrong.

CiaranK

Hi all, Haven't been to a GAA match in years. Got a ticket the other day. Should be good. Looking forward to it!

dcr22B

CiaranK wrote: »

Hi all, Haven't been to a GAA match in years. Got a ticket the other day. Should be good. Looking forward to it!

You couldn't have picked a better time for it :rolleyes:;)

Johnny86

i wonder when was the last time tipp played dublin in football croker?..1920 bloody sunday?

Leroy Lita

Frank Spencer wrote: »

DUBLIN (SF v Tipperary)

1.Stephen Cluxton
2.Michael Fitzsimons
3.Rory O’Carroll
4.Philly McMahon
5.Kevin Nolan
6.Ger Brennan
7.David Henry
8.Michael Dara McAuley
9.Ross McConnell
10.Niall Corkery
11.Alan Brogan
12.Paul Flynn
13.Bernard Brogan
14.Eoghan O’Gara
15.Kevin McManamon

that Dublin team is very beatable. tipp have a right chance tomorow

Floppybits

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Ger Brennan is a liability to have on the pitch? I think he is one of those players that can get sent off every match for doing stupid things.

Am going to the games tomorrow but I don't have much confidence in the footballers, they just dont seem to be prepared at all, tatically or mentally. I think if Tipp get an early goal, I dont we could come back from it. Hopefully I am proved wrong.

corny

If this is a young team to build on going forward you'd expect some sort of reaction. I'm not convinced. Henry and the Brogans are the only established players (forgot Cluxton) in that line up so if it gets tight Tipp will have a chance.

Hope McAuley has a good game and nails down his place.

unknown13

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Yea, heard thats the team alright. Fennell injured, Cahill, Cullen and Quinn all dropped.

Experienced, experienced, experienced. Pat Gilroy get your head out of your arse and experiment during the league.

DH2K9

Ger Brennan had been sent off twice in big games at Croke Park. Does that not say it all?

Eoghan O'Gara impressed against Wexford in the O'Byrne Cup before being harshly sent off but he offers us something different in attack which we really badly need.

Glad Kevin Nolan and Michael McAuley are getting their chances as they are two definate stars of the future who need to be blooded in now.

While I don't want to see the name Mossy ever appearing on a Dublin SFC team-sheet again I do think we will rue the lack of a natural free-taker. Bernard was awful against Wexford.

That would be my best Dublin team with the exception of Hubbard who could slot in on any wing when he is fit.

As supporters we need to be patience and if the worse does happen and we lose we need to give Gilroy one more year to build a young team. This team won't win an All-Ireland for maybe a couple of years but they will one day and if they win one they'll kick on and win another but only if Gilroy remains in charge. The key is for the Dublin Supporters and the bandwagon crowd to be PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gilroy needs time as do the players and supporting the team rather than booing is the way to go. Tomorrow the Dublin players will be afraid to make a mistake for the fear of an earful from the 90% uneducated football supportes in the Hill. Dublin players will make mistakes tomorrow as will every inter-county team playing this weekend but abuse won't help that.

So I plead to the Hill to sing "Boys in Blue" more than once in a football match tomorrow and stop looking for perfection from a young and upcoming team who have an All-Ireland sometime in the future.

Het-Field

Last min decision to attend.

I believe Dublin should be capable of taking this one. The return of Henry is to be lauded. The dropping of Barry Cahill is to be criticised. I would not be critical of the decision to drop Bryan Cullen or Tomas Quinn. Equally, if Keaney is not injured, im glad he has been dropped. He is one of the "sacred cows" of Dublin who has been allowed play on without fear of being dropped.

Kevin Nolan has been due a start, even though I would prefer to se Paul Casey. The McAuley decision is not before time. McManamon and O Gara have been given a big chance, now they must take it by the horns.

If the game is tight, i see Dublin taking it. The bench they have will be full of experience, and many will wish to shake of the legacy of two weeks ago. I say Dublin by 3 +

Het-Field

DH2K9 wrote: »

Ger Brennan had been sent off twice in big games at Croke Park. Does that not say it all?

Eoghan O'Gara impressed against Wexford in the O'Byrne Cup before being harshly sent off but he offers us something different in attack which we really badly need.

Glad Kevin Nolan and Michael McAuley are getting their chances as they are two definate stars of the future who need to be blooded in now.

While I don't want to see the name Mossy ever appearing on a Dublin SFC team-sheet again I do think we will rue the lack of a natural free-taker. Bernard was awful against Wexford.

That would be my best Dublin team with the exception of Hubbard who could slot in on any wing when he is fit.

As supporters we need to be patience and if the worse does happen and we lose we need to give Gilroy one more year to build a young team. This team won't win an All-Ireland for maybe a couple of years but they will one day and if they win one they'll kick on and win another but only if Gilroy remains in charge. The key is for the Dublin Supporters and the bandwagon crowd to be PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gilroy needs time as do the players and supporting the team rather than booing is the way to go. Tomorrow the Dublin players will be afraid to make a mistake for the fear of an earful from the 90% uneducated football supportes in the Hill. Dublin players will make mistakes tomorrow as will every inter-county team playing this weekend but abuse won't help that.

So I plead to the Hill to sing "Boys in Blue" more than once in a football match tomorrow and stop looking for perfection from a young and upcoming team who have an All-Ireland sometime in the future.

For a man who claims to know a lot about Dublin Football, im amazed that you seem to believe that Pat Gilroy still picks the team. The decisions which the management have taken to drop lads like Whelan, Ryan, Sherlock, Vaughan etc smack of a byegone era. An era where names like Ciaran Walsh, Vinny Murphy, Paul Clarke, Paddy Moran, and Jason Sherlock were omitted from a Dublin Panel in the wake of an All Ireland Winning Season. If you read between the lines you will see that Gilroy is not the man who is calling the shots.

DH2K9

Het-Field wrote: »

For a man who claims to know a lot about Dublin Football, im amazed that you seem to believe that Pat Gilroy still picks the team. The decisions which the management have taken to drop lads like Whelan, Ryan, Sherlock, Vaughan etc smack of a byegone era. An era where names like Ciaran Walsh, Vinny Murphy, Paul Clarke, Paddy Moran, and Jason Sherlock were omitted from a Dublin Panel in the wake of an All Ireland Winning Season. If you read between the lines you will see that Gilroy is not the man who is calling the shots.

You are reading to much into it. The difference is these lads were dropped because they bottled it on the big days in August in front of a packed Croke Park. They are all bottlers. Are you telling me that you would have kept these lads? Ciaran Whelan retired, Jayo still had a moment of brilliance but contributed nothing from open play, Vaughan was unfit, big headed and all he could was take frees and as for shane ryan if you remember rightly he switched to the hurlers!

Het-Field

DH2K9 wrote: »

You are reading to much into it. The difference is these lads were dropped because they bottled it on the big days in August in front of a packed Croke Park. They are all bottlers. Are you telling me that you would have kept these lads? Ciaran Whelan retired, Jayo still had a moment of brilliance but contributed nothing from open play, Vaughan was unfit, big headed and all he could was take frees and as for shane ryan if you remember rightly he switched to the hurlers!

Ciaran Whelan and Shane Ryan should have been in from the throw in against Kerry. McConnell and McGee was a flawed partnership. It never played well together. The win over Kildare papered over the cracks in center mid. The winning of the game involved Whelo and Ryan. While im aware Ryan switched to the Hurlers, it is plausable that his decision to defect was based on the lack of respect shown to him.

Jason Sherlock was at the left full forward position on a day that Dublin couldnt get the ball beyond the midfield. Players like Paul Flynn and Dirmuid Connolly were far more culpable on the day. Equally people like Bryan Cullen were taken out before the 10th Min.

Vaughan may be unfit, but as you say, he is a free taker. In another post you lament Dublin's lack of a free taker. I think you might be beginning to contradict yourself.

corny

Het-Field wrote: »

Ciaran Whelan and Shane Ryan should have been in from the throw in against Kerry. McConnell and McGee was a flawed partnership. It never played well together. The win over Kildare papered over the cracks in center mid. The winning of the game involved Whelo and Ryan. While im aware Ryan switched to the Hurlers, it is plausable that his decision to defect was based on the lack of respect shown to him.

Jason Sherlock was at the left full forward position on a day that Dublin couldnt get the ball beyond the midfield. Players like Paul Flynn and Dirmuid Connolly were far more culpable on the day. Equally people like Bryan Cullen were taken out before the 10th Min.

Vaughan may be unfit, but as you say, he is a free taker. In another post you lament Dublin's lack of a free taker. I think you might be beginning to contradict yourself.

Its more than plausible its the truth. The treatment of both Ryan and Whelan left them with no choice but to move on. Imagine yourself the wrong side of 30 putting in the effort only to be rewarded with cameo appearances. All while watching Ross McConnell of all people play in your place. They were right to move on and Gilroy is a fool for pushing away lads who still had a lot to offer a young team.

The Rooster

DH2K9 wrote: »

You are reading to much into it. The difference is these lads were dropped because they bottled it on the big days in August in front of a packed Croke Park. They are all bottlers. Are you telling me that you would have kept these lads? Ciaran Whelan retired, Jayo still had a moment of brilliance but contributed nothing from open play, Vaughan was unfit, big headed and all he could was take frees and as for shane ryan if you remember rightly he switched to the hurlers!

If there's a prize for how many things you can get wrong in a couple of sentences, you'll be very hard to beat.

DH2K9

So are you guys telling me that today you would start Ryan and Whelan in midfield and Jayo and Vaughan in the two corners? How would we know how good these young players are if we don't give them a chance. Mcmanamon, O'Gara, McAuley all deserve a few games in Croke Park to see what they're made of.

What did these four senior players win between them in their careers, 1 National Title in 15 years. Gilroy has no option but to build for the future and I think he should have started a year sooner. This is an exciting young team who in a couple of years can be a great team.

You say they need experience. Experience of what? Leinster medals? Pillars team was a team of bottlers and it was time for change. You seem to forget that the same thing happened against Tyrone in 2008 when three of those players (and 1 as a sub) had the chance to deliver but bottled it.

As for the free-taker there is no point having a guy who sits ion the corner, contributes nothing from open play but slots over 4 or 5 frees. Yes we may rue the lack of a free-taker but I do think the likes of O'Gara offer us something different in attack where we can score more from open play and beat Tipp. This team should be given the FULL GAME to prove themselves against decent opposition.

We are going to win nothing for a while but if we stick to Gilroy's policy somewhere down the line it will click. We won the All-Ireland at U21 this year so the likes of Rory O'Carrol need to be brought through. That U21 team won more then the Whelan and Ryan era ever did.

It could be a great future for Dublin football but staying with the same team over again who would win every Leinster but couldn't do it on the big day would only delay the inevitable. That team were given ample time but failed to deliver. SIMPLE AS.

Het-Field

DH2K9 wrote: »

So are you guys telling me that today you would start Ryan and Whelan in midfield and Jayo and Vaughan in the two corners? How would we know how good these young players are if we don't give them a chance. Mcmanamon, O'Gara, McAuley all deserve a few games in Croke Park to see what they're made of.

What did these four senior players win between them in their careers, 1 National Title in 15 years. Gilroy has no option but to build for the future and I think he should have started a year sooner. This is an exciting young team who in a couple of years can be a great team.

You say they need experience. Experience of what? Leinster medals? Pillars team was a team of bottlers and it was time for change. You seem to forget that the same thing happened against Tyrone in 2008 when three of those players (and 1 as a sub) had the chance to deliver but bottled it.

As for the free-taker there is no point having a guy who sits ion the corner, contributes nothing from open play but slots over 4 or 5 frees. Yes we may rue the lack of a free-taker but I do think the likes of O'Gara offer us something different in attack where we can score more from open play and beat Tipp. This team should be given the FULL GAME to prove themselves against decent opposition.

We are going to win nothing for a while but if we stick to Gilroy's policy somewhere down the line it will click. We won the All-Ireland at U21 this year so the likes of Rory O'Carrol need to be brought through. That U21 team won more then the Whelan and Ryan era ever did.

It could be a great future for Dublin football but staying with the same team over again who would win every Leinster but couldn't do it on the big day would only delay the inevitable. That team were given ample time but failed to deliver. SIMPLE AS.

With due respect, Vaughan was more then just a calm free taker. He could also shoot on sight and from distance. In 2007 the man contributed at least four points per game, and his 8 point salvo against Meath was amazingly good. I would have hoped that the full forward line would currently contain Vaughan----Davoren

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A.Brogan.

I believe the Whelan/Ryan era had an All Ireland in them. I know it is moot, but had they navigated the Kerry game in 2007, they were all but All Ireland Champions. The same applied in 2002, the hard work was to be done in the Semi Final against Armagh, with the carrot being a Kerry team in transition. Ray Cosgrove hitting the upright, and Stephen Cluxton's rush of blood to the head in 2007 cannot be attributed to Ryan and Whelan doing nothing, or winning nothing. These teams had talent to burn. Otherwise they would never have taken the 2005 Tyrone team as far as they did in the QF, or they would not have taken a 7 point lead over Mayo in 2006.

Dublin teams lacking in talent are what we have seen since the Tyrone game in August 2008. They have struggled to shake off weak teams, and have been hammered on several occasions. Dublin's problems in the early-late/mid noughties was a psychological problem. They couldnt close out a game for love nor money. Equally, when the going got tough, they often fell short. That had little to do with talent, but everything to do with psychology. Otherwise Cosgrove would have sank that ball like all comparable free-takers, Cluxton wouldnt have given a kick to the Armagh forward in 2003 (and got sent off) when the Dubs were 5 points up, Dublin wouldnt have tossed away commanding leads against Mayo and Tyrone, and they would have gone the extra mile against Kerry, which they were capable of doing in 2007.

While i dont believe we should prevent the future, I do believe that Dublin need to do it sensibly. Throwing out the Carr/Lyons/Caffery era lock stock and barrel is crazy. Micky Whelan did the same thing in 1996/1997 and Tommy Carr was left with a huge task of rebuilding moral and pride. The Gilroy era has seen two massive defeats in the championship, a few exposed performances in the league, and the use of hlots of players, who we dont see during the championship. While I dont want to prevent the future, I dont believe the limited management of Gilroy/Whelan is the right cobination

Patsy fyre

come on the premier !!