[Article] Key road and rail projects axed as money runs out

JHMEG

FORTY major road projects and key rail and Luas projects have been scrapped because there is no money to build them.

Nine new motorway rest areas planned for the M7 (Limerick), M8 (Cork), M9 (Waterford), M3 (Cavan) and N11 (Wexford) have also been mothballed by the Government, an Irish Independent investigation has found. The National Roads Authority (NRA) has run out of money to build the 40 roads, which include bypasses and dual carriageways.

It has been "directed" by the Government not to build the remaining rest areas along motorways, sources revealed.

The axed projects will be confirmed in a government mid-term review of the National Development Plan (NDP), which is expected to be completed within weeks.

The investigation also found:

* The Government has almost halved funding for infrastructure between now and 2013, from €39.6bn to €22.9bn.
* The NRA will begin just three projects next year, and all are in partnership with the private sector, with monies to be paid back over 30 years.
* A series of projects under the NDP also face the axe, including several of the capital's Luas links.

The only projects considered "safe" under the NDP are Metro North, the Atlantic Corridor Road project linking Letterkenny to Waterford, and the underground DART.

Government sources confirmed vulnerable projects included four Metro/Luas schemes -- Metro West, Luas lines from Cherrywood to Bray, Lucan to the city centre and St Stephen's Green to Liffey Junction.

Question marks also hang over the N3 Belturbet bypass in Co Cavan, the N5 Longford bypass, the N22 Tralee bypass and N25 Cork southern ring road junction upgrade.

These are due to go ahead next year "subject to funding being available". Phase two and three of the Western Rail Corridor are also in doubt as the Government undertakes its review of the NDP.

A spokesman for Transport Minister Noel Dempsey last night admitted that "because of the changed economic circumstances, it was now likely that not all of the projects originally identified in Transport 21 will be completed by 2015".

He added: "No projects have been cancelled and Transport 21 continues to provide the strategic framework for capital spending on transport infrastructure into the future."

It is estimated there are 70,000 people employed in big capital projects around the country. There are now concerns that government spending cuts will add to the lengthening dole queues.

The most recent live register figures showed there were more than 450,000 people seeking unemployment benefits -- the highest in three years.

Economic experts argue that good infrastructure is essential to ensure Ireland can create jobs and capitalise when the global economy turns a corner.

This is because Ireland does not have a jobs stimulus package, which is the norm in many European countries.

The Government's own growth forecasts of more than 3.3pc in 2011 and more than 4pc for the following three years are based on capital expenditure of €5.5bn every year until 2014.

But the latest Exchequer figures show that while tax returns are roughly in line with expectations, capital expenditure is already running 25pc, or €600m, below target.

Employers group IBEC described the trend as "worrying". IBEC economist Fergal O'Brien added: "The Government is telling us it is spending money, but we are not seeing it on the ground.

"The capital expenditure programme is our equivalent of a job stimulus.

"It certainly seems like the Government is cutting spending and the big question is what happens when big programmes like the already completed Aviva Stadium finish up. Where will the growth be for the next two years and where will the jobs come from?"

He added that, with tender prices down 30pc, the Government would get good value if it was spending money on capital projects that were needed, like roads, schools and hospitals.

a tricky tightrope, page 25

- Treacy Hogan and Ailish O'Hora

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/key-road-and-rail-projects-axed-as-money-runs-out-2247169.html

Neworder79

The side article lists the exact projects as:

Road Projects Suspended
N2 Ashbourne - Ardee
N4 Sligo Bypass
N5 Scramogue - Ballaghaderreen
N6 Galway Outer Bypass
M7 Naas - Newbridge
N13 Stranolar - Derry
N14 Letterkenny - Lifford
N15 Lifford - Ballybofey
N16 Sligo - Glencar
N16 Glenfarne - Glencar
N22 Macroom - Ballincollig
N23 Castleisland - Farranfore
N24 Mooncoin Bypass
N24 Carrick-on-suir Bypass
N24 Clonmel
N24 Clonmel - Cahir
N24 Cahir - Bansha
N25 New Ross - Wexford
N25 Middelton - Youghal
N28 Ringaskiddy - Cork
N53 Ballynacarry Bridge
N54 Monaghan Town Link
N56 Inver - killybegs
N56 Letterkenny Relief Road
N59 Ballina Relief Road
N59 Crossmolina - Ballina
N59 Westport Relief Road (South)
N60 Castlebar - Claremorris
N61 Roscommon Town Bypass
N61 Boyle Bypass
N62 Roscrea Bypass
N71 Bandon Inishannon
N71 Kenmare Bypass
N72 Lismore - Cappoquin
N76 Tennypark - Brownsbarn
N77 Ballynaslee
N83 Ballyhaunis distributor road
N84 Ballinrobe Bypass
N87 Belturbet - Ballyconnell
M50 Eastern Bypass

Not Going Ahead or Vunerable
Metro West
Luas CherryWood - Bray
Luas Stephens Green - Liffy junction
Luas Lucan -Trinity
WRC Phase 2/3
Second Runway Dublin Airport
Regional Airport Investment
N2 may go ahead as in "Ministers backyard"

Safe
Atlantic Corridore (no breakdown of projects)
Metro North
DART Underground

Of interest: almost all listed roads are in South and West, but many are secondary projects. List may be as significant for the primary projects that aren't mentioned.
Atlantic Corridor "safe" statement is very vague given size, especially as some of the projects listed suspended are part of it.
WRC not going ahead conflicts with what the Minister said last week about delays in Metro creating space in the budget for Navan and WRC2.

Seems to be a lot of confusion about all projects at the moment, it would be good if the Minister came out with a more definitive statement on the state of all NDP/T21 projects.

Cookie_Monster

Neworder79 wrote: »

The side article lists the exact projects as:

Road Projects Suspended

N11 was listed in the article too.

schemingbohemia

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

N11 was listed in the article too.

Was that not just the motorway rest area?

Cookie_Monster

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Was that not just the motorway rest area?

Dunno, is the Wexford / Ferrycarrick upgrade still going ahead?
There are still strips of N amongst the M that were going to be upgraded too, were there not?

mike65

N25 New Ross - Wexford

Already done unless they mean the NR bypass

monument

What exactly is the news here?

We were already told that most of the road projects have been stalled, and we've been told that the public transport projects will continue up to the end stages of planning, and only then would funding for these be looked at.

jack presley

Is the Newland's Cross interchange still going ahead?

Oliver1985

In fairness once the Dart Underground and metro north goes ahead we are fine!
The roads around the country are not that bad!!

Zoney

Neworder79 wrote: »

Atlantic Corridor "safe" statement is very vague given size, especially as some of the projects listed suspended are part of it.

Based on earlier news, I would guess this is deliberately vague as M20 southern section is intended to happen in the next while via PPP, but not as immediately as the 2 or 3 projects in theory about to start. M20 northern section is being kept on the long finger but with the building of the M20 southern section intended to make sure M20 northern section isn't ditched completely.

At least that is my reading of it.

Also it seems N24 is to remain as is, while northern sections of the Atlantic corridor aren't happening except for the N17/N18 project that in theory is to start soon (but I would guess that a viable PPP is not assured for this or the other projects that are supposed to still be happening).

xOxSinéadxOx

what's the new ross - wexford? do they mean wexford - waterford?

D'Peoples Voice

monument wrote: »

What exactly is the news here?

I think we both know, this story is more about political posturing than informing people about transport projects!
I suspect this story is a plant, perhaps even by a backbencher. Think about it, the Government are only STARTING their asset inventory to see what can be sold, the various organs of Governments are only beginning to plan for December's budget. Nothing has been decided! So when no bad news to give, rehash some article from 2008/09 to provoke a reaction.
Anyone that would have read any of Sponge Bobs posts last year on this forum would have known about these projects being cancelled, its not news, its politics!

Neworder79

Neworder79 wrote: »

The side article lists the exact projects as:

Road Projects Suspended
N2 Ashbourne - Ardee
N4 Sligo Bypass
N5 Scramogue - Ballaghaderreen
N6 Galway Outer Bypass
M7 Naas - Newbridge
N13 Stranolar - Derry
N14 Letterkenny - Lifford
N15 Lifford - Ballybofey
N16 Sligo - Glencar
N16 Glenfarne - Glencar
N22 Macroom - Ballincollig
N23 Castleisland - Farranfore

This is going ahead is it not? Its part of the A5 project

http://www.highlandradio.com/2010/07/06/road-projects-set-to-be-scrapped/

holton

jack presley wrote: »

Is the Newland's Cross interchange still going ahead?

Supposed to be going ahead later this year.

JHMEG

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

I think we both know, this story is more about political posturing than informing people about transport projects!

Well, with the Croke Park agreement meaning no paycuts for the public service, the money has to come from somewhere.

purplepanda

mike65 wrote: »

Already done unless they mean the NR bypass

So is the Barrow Road Bridge / New Ross Bypass being scraped, another kick in the teeth for the South East region if so:mad::mad::mad:

Cookie_Monster

purplepanda wrote: »

So is the Barrow Road Bridge / New Ross Bypass being scraped, another kick in the teeth for the South East region if so:mad::mad::mad:

but with the rail line closing they can just tarmac over that bridge and problem solved

Aard

purplepanda wrote: »

So is the Barrow Road Bridge / New Ross Bypass being scraped, another kick in the teeth for the South East region if so:mad::mad::mad:

"Kick in the teeth"? Are you kidding? M9 and N25 - 'nuff said. What more do you want? And more importantly, how would you go about financing it?

JHMEG

Aard wrote: »

"Kick in the teeth"? Are you kidding? M9 and N25 - 'nuff said. What more do you want? And more importantly, how would you go about financing it?

In addition the M9 is the only non-tolled city-to-city motorway in the country. Nice!

purplepanda

Aard wrote: »

"Kick in the teeth"? Are you kidding? M9 and N25 - 'nuff said. What more do you want? And more importantly, how would you go about financing it?

So alright for South Wexford folk, particularly the western side, to continue to be cut off from it's adjoining counties & have to travel up on bad roads to New Ross just to cross the River Barrow to get anywhere westwards or northwards.:mad:

Time to cut projects in the West who have had more than their fair share of cash recently:rolleyes:

In the past, even the British administration built 3 railway bridges / lines across the Barrow & Suir rivers to connect the counties of the south eastern regions together. Now all three rail links are gone!!!!!

Proof, if any were really needed, that the South East region needs transport links kept & upgraded not destroyed or abandoned.

Chris_5339762

This is stuff we all knew on here before but the quality of the Independent journalism leaves a lot to be desired. The PPPs are safe, except for Galway bypass which is gone.

Sponge Bob

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The PPPs are safe, except for Galway bypass which is gone.

Our local greaseball in chief was fast off the mark to deny it. Instructively he has not commented on the lack of cash for the redesign of the section around Tonabrocky where the cotton is, nothing has been done about that bit, no money. They should be doing constraints for the reroute by now.

http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-claims-false/

Aard

purplepanda wrote: »

So alright for South Wexford folk, particularly the western side, to continue to be cut off from it's adjoining counties & have to travel up on bad roads to New Ross just to cross the River Barrow to get anywhere westwards or northwards.:mad:

South Wexford. It doesn't have the huge population to demand such a bridge. You do realise how wide that river is, right? It would be disastrously expensive. Like I said above, how do you propose to finance it?

Time to cut projects in the West who have had more than their fair share of cash recently:rolleyes:

The projects in the West are between large cities, by Irish standards. The only major destination after Waterford would be Wexford and Rosslare, which are provided for by the current N25. You'd be better spending the proposed money on improving the roads, rather than building another bridge. Oh, and again: where would this money come from?

In the past, even the British administration built 3 railway bridges / lines across the Barrow & Suir rivers to connect the counties of the south eastern regions together. Now all three rail links are gone!!!!!

The rail-links are gone because they're not heavily used, nor profitable. Just because the Western Rail Corridor isn't profitable either, doesn't mean that the South-east should also get a non-profitable rail-line. IMO, both should have been closed. Two wrongs don't make a right, and two unprofitable rail-lines certainly don't make for balancing the books. Again, I plead: how will it be paid for?

Proof, if any were really needed, that the South East region needs transport links kept & upgraded not destroyed or abandoned.

There are transport-links. They're called the M9, N11, and N25. Neither the population nor population-density is there to sustain rail outside the Waterford-Dublin or Wexford-Dublin corridor.


Now please answer me this: where and/or how can we pay for what you're demanding?

JHMEG

Aard wrote: »

Now please answer me this: where and/or how can we pay for what you're demanding?

Put a toll on the M9!

runway16

I think this article needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

The snazzy looking graphic in the paper which listed safe / "abandoned" projects even included the new runway at Dublin Airport. This project has absolutely nothing to do with the NDP or the government, being entirely financed by the DAA through revenues/ borrowing, which will go ahead once a certain trigger has been reached in terms of aircraft movements.

The inclusion of this in the graph tells me that whoever wrote the article was really looking to cause the most damage to the government as possible by including things like this which arent really relevant.

Inevitably, we are going to see delays. I think we all expect that, but to say that none of what was mentioned will ever go ahead is just stupid.

Ideal world, all of this would go ahead, now, as a stimulus package. But it has to be paid for. So we accept either cuts or more taxes. We cant have it all at the moment sadly. (And no mention of Nama please... its happened... lets deal with it.)

Dum_Dum

purplepanda wrote: »

So alright for South Wexford folk, particularly the western side, to continue to be cut off from it's adjoining counties & have to travel up on bad roads to New Ross just to cross the River Barrow to get anywhere westwards or northwards.:mad:
...

You can use the Passage East Ferry. It's only E8 for a 560m trip. That's only E14.29 per km. Can someone please confirm that the Passage East Ferry is more expensive than the Space Shuttle? Stick a toll on the M9 while your at it. Also don't build a bridge in Waterford City Centre where it is required - stick it on the outskirts where we can toll it because the complaints will come flooding in if Waterford has a toll free bridge. But lets complain anyway, just after shutting down their railway, because they don't deserve that either.

runway16

Dum_Dum wrote: »

You can use the Passage East Ferry. It's only E8 for a 560m trip. That's only E14.29 per km. Can someone please confirm that the Passage East Ferry is more expensive than the Space Shuttle? Stick a toll on the M9 while your at it. Also don't build a bridge in Waterford City Centre where it is required - stick it on the outskirts where we can toll it because the complaints will come flooding in if Waterford has a toll free bridge. But lets complain anyway, just after shutting down their railway, because they don't deserve that either.

Come on,. now you hardly wanted the N25 bypass to have been sited in the centre of town! The idea is to get that traffic out of the city where it has no business being anyway. But I do agree that tolling it has been a mistake. The levels of inconvenience you suffer by taking the old route doesnt really justify paying the toll in a city the size of waterford.

And no, you dont deserve to lose your railway either until such time as IE has bothered to provide a proper service on the line and at least test demand.

But I do agree with previous posters that the south east hasnt done all that bad in terms of new infrastructure over the last while, certainly when you compare it to the North west, which really hasnt gotten much at all.

JHMEG

I also think the South East/Waterford (finally) didn't too too badly. The M6 is toll free, the only city-city mway in the country that is. The bypass (N25) is there too, taking out Kilmeaden and the like for free. Putting

I think the gripe is that South Wexford didn't get better connections in a westerly direction, but I also agree: the population isn't there to support it. South Wexford is like North Leitrim... pretty, but a bit of a backwater, sparsely populated with feck all industry.

strassenwo!f

A spokesman for Transport Minister Noel Dempsey last night admitted that "because of the changed economic circumstances, it was now likely that not all of the projects originally identified in Transport 21 will be completed by 2015".

But why would the changed economic circumstances have any bearing on this? One of the points which was stressed at the launch of Transport 21 was that the money was ring-fenced.

So, if it was ring-fenced, why aren't the projects going ahead?

And, if it wasn't ring-fenced, what should persuade us that much (or most, or indeed all) of the T21 thing wasn't just another back-of-the-envelope-bolleeks PR stunt?

DWCommuter

strassenwo!f wrote: »

But why would the changed economic circumstances have any bearing on this? One of the points which was stressed at the launch of Transport 21 was that the money was ring-fenced.

So, if it was ring-fenced, why aren't the projects going ahead?

And, if it wasn't ring-fenced, what should persuade us that much (or most, or indeed all) of the T21 thing wasn't just another back-of-the-envelope-bolleeks PR stunt?

Once again this valid point has been raised and once again I repeat the explanation.

The "ringfenced" money was based on projected tax returns which as we all know went into reverse gear 2 years ago.

This is why my own stance on T21 (in 2005) was to fastrack the important stuff and forget about the cheap ****, due to the obviously shakey nature of longer term economic forecasts.

Boom and bust. Its the oldest economic lesson in the world and Ireland forgot to realise it despite the warnings.

JHMEG

strassenwo!f wrote: »

So, if it was ring-fenced, why aren't the projects going ahead?

The National Pension Reserve Fund was ring fenced too (for real), but that was used to bail out the banks.

The money for T21 is probably gone into NAMA.

average_runner

NO harm in luas from lucan not going ahead as it will take longer than the bus to get to town by 15 mins. Sure the Red line luas is way slower than the bus in rush hour

Not

Neworder79 wrote: »

The side article lists the exact projects as:

Road Projects Suspended
N2 Ashbourne - Ardee
N4 Sligo Bypass
N5 Scramogue - Ballaghaderreen
N6 Galway Outer Bypass
M7 Naas - Newbridge
...

What exactly was on the plans here, given that there is already an M7 between Naas and Newbridge

DWCommuter

Not wrote: »

What exactly was on the plans here, given that there is already an M7 between Naas and Newbridge

Widening the motorway.

purplepanda

JHMEG wrote: »

I also think the South East/Waterford (finally) didn't too too badly. The M6 is toll free, the only city-city mway in the country that is. The bypass (N25) is there too, taking out Kilmeaden and the like for free. Putting

I think the gripe is that South Wexford didn't get better connections in a westerly direction, but I also agree: the population isn't there to support it. South Wexford is like North Leitrim... pretty, but a bit of a backwater, sparsely populated with feck all industry.

Well that's hardly bloody surprising when all connections to adjoining regions have been dismantled is it? Where are people supposed to work when they are too far from Dublin? How is the area supposed to attract investment without decent transport links? How are the locals going to get employment in nearby companies located on the other side of the River Barrow?

BTW I have no problem with investment in places like Limerick / Cork / Galway, by the West I mean building underused roads in places like Sligo / Mayo ect

Aard

purplepanda wrote: »

Well that's hardly bloody surprising when all connections to adjoining regions have been dismantled is it?

All connections? There is still the N11, N25, and N30. The population-density is too low to warrant a railway through the area you're talking about.

Where are people supposed to work when they are too far from Dublin?

In New Ross or Wexford.

How is the area supposed to attract investment without decent transport links?

Why would any "investment" in South Wexford possibly be interested in locating anywhere except in New Ross, Wexford, or Enniscorthy? Rural areas are for farming. Urban areas are where investment goes. The way to attract investment would be for people to stop living in one-horse-towns and instead live in more populous urban areas in order to increase their critical mass. And anyway, what kind of investment do you want?

How are the locals going to get employment in nearby companies located on the other side of the River Barrow?

The river is a physical feature. Just because the displacement isn't that far, doesn't mean it warrants an expensive new bridge. If people are so concerned about the other side of the Barrow, then my advice would be to move there.

BTW I have no problem with investment in places like Limerick / Cork / Galway, by the West I mean building underused roads in places like Sligo / Mayo ect

Can you point out any of these "underused roads" to us?

Neworder79

Quote:
BTW I have no problem with investment in places like Limerick / Cork / Galway, by the West I mean building underused roads in places like Sligo / Mayo ect
Can you point out any of these "underused roads" to us?

Yes please do. Sligo is a regional hub and largest town in the NW, so I think the traffic on the N4 more than justified the spending so far. As for Mayo if you'd ever used the roads you'd know Charlestown & Caremorris were the only major projects in the last 10 years, both removing bottlenecks and dangerous winding, narrow sections of primary road to Galway and Dublin. Plenty work remains with large sections of N26, N17, N5, N84, N60, N59 all sub standard. The Westport - Castlebar upgrade has been on the cards for almost 30 years, I assure you it's far from underused with over 18,000 daily. And not much has changed for the 25,000 crawling through Claregalway everyday.

Oh yes the West gets everything :rolleyes:

Bodan

Aard wrote: »

The rail-links are gone because they're not heavily used, nor profitable. Just because the Western Rail Corridor isn't profitable either, doesn't mean that the South-east should also get a non-profitable rail-line. IMO, both should have been closed. Two wrongs don't make a right, and two unprofitable rail-lines certainly don't make for balancing the books. Again, I plead: how will it be paid for?

The Dart doesn't make a profit, Dublin Bus doesn't make a profit, should they be shut down too ?

purplepanda

Neworder79 wrote: »

Yes please do. Sligo is a regional hub and largest town in the NW, so I think the traffic on the N4 more than justified the spending so far. As for Mayo if you'd ever used the roads you'd know Charlestown & Caremorris were the only major projects in the last 10 years, both removing bottlenecks and dangerous winding, narrow sections of primary road to Galway and Dublin. Plenty work remains with large sections of N26, N17, N5, N84, N60, N59 all sub standard. The Westport - Castlebar upgrade has been on the cards for almost 30 years, I assure you it's far from underused with over 18,000 daily. And not much has changed for the 25,000 crawling through Claregalway everyday.

Oh yes the West gets everything :rolleyes:

Charlestown & other local towns with brand new roads built without any serious traffic, I have family around Balla & seen all these new Roads are always empty!!!! Even my Mayo Uncle in law laughs about it!!

You say that various projects have been waiting in line for 20 plus years yet this is exactly the same as the New Ross Bypass / Barrow Bridge which was supposed to be built after the Waterford Bypass bridge just finished by the same contractors.

Anyone traveling through New Ross would instantly see that this bridge is badly needed for both local, regional & international traffic.

It would improve transport connections between SW Ireland, Cork & Waterford to Britain & Europe as well as local usage

That's why the NR Bypass should be built:rolleyes:

Neworder79

I'm not saying anything against projects needed in Wexford, I just think you are talking bull re "all these new Roads" to "other local towns" in the West.

JHMEG

purplepanda wrote: »

How is the area supposed to attract investment without decent transport links?

Imagination, enterprise and hard work. All of which start locally.

purplepanda wrote: »

How are the locals going to get employment in nearby companies located on the other side of the River Barrow?

It might make sense to move. Lots of people relocate to be closer to work, rather than demanding bridges to be built to shorten their commute (bridges that will be funded ultimately by tax payers in other parts of the country as there aren't enough taxpayers locally to fund it).

purplepanda

JHMEG wrote: »

Imagination, enterprise and hard work. All of which start locally.



It might make sense to move. Lots of people relocate to be closer to work, rather than demanding bridges to be built to shorten their commute (bridges that will be funded ultimately by tax payers in other parts of the country as there aren't enough taxpayers locally to fund it).

Wexford people work as hard as anyone else in Ireland, they also leave to find work in Ireland & abroad in their droves:rolleyes:


Those Wexford & South Eastern counties residents that remain pay their fare share in taxes to central government to see funds allocated to other regions of Ireland by politicians & lobby groups playing parish pump politics:mad:

Zebra3

purplepanda wrote: »

Wexford people work as hard as anyone else in Ireland, they also leave to find work in Ireland & abroad in their droves:rolleyes:

The only place in Ireland where people emigrate from.... :rolleyes:

purplepanda wrote: »

Those Wexford & South Eastern counties residents that remain pay their fare share in taxes to central government to see funds allocated to other regions of Ireland by politicians & lobby groups playing parish pump politics:mad:

You got the figures to back that up?

JHMEG

purplepanda wrote: »

Those Wexford residents that remain pay their fare share in taxes to central government

There was an article in the paper a while back listing counties that are not able to support themselves without subvention, and I think Wexford was one.

That means the cost of providing services (ie roads, schools, hospitals, public sector wages) in the county is greater than the revenue from taxation gathered in the county.

D'Peoples Voice

JHMEG wrote: »

The National Pension Reserve Fund was ring fenced too (for real), but that was used to bail out the banks.

Ironically it was INdirectly used to bail out the banks in order to keep the budget deficit down.
The Government are already borrowing 20 billion a year to fund the gap between day-to-day expenditure and day-to-day revenue,
borrowing another 20 billion to bail out the banks would have scared the hell out of investors.

So the National Pension Reserve Fund has "invested" in the banks preference shares instead of the international stock/bond market where it used to invest. So technically that money is still ring-fenced:D Now if you ask me how much I think those preference shares are worth......:rolleyes:

All this goes to show that the Government(which by the way has local Government borrowings stated separately from central government borrowing to improve our statistics) are trying to keep borrowing down.
There is no bloody hope in them building half these schemes, we know it, they know it, everyone knows it.
Now back to the decentralisation project..........

JHMEG

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Ironically it was INdirectly used to bail out the banks in order to keep the budget deficit down.

I can't help but see Clinton/George Double-ya parallels.

Charlie McCreevy leaves office, NPRF is stuffed full with €22 billion... Cowen/Lenihan take over, the NPRF is emptied and the national debt is doubled/tripled.

Aard

Bodan wrote: »

The Dart doesn't make a profit, Dublin Bus doesn't make a profit, should they be shut down too ?

No, because they are heavily used. The railway lines that purplepanda was talking about weren't being heavily used.

Aard

purplepanda:

I've made two long posts, directed at your comments. Could you please address the questions I've asked?

purplepanda

Aard wrote: »

purplepanda:

I've made two long posts, directed at your comments. Could you please address the questions I've asked?

I've answered most of your concerns in previous posts apart from your suggestions that railway lines that don't make a profit should be axed which would close all in Ireland apart from Luas & maybe Dublin / Cork Belfast something which most EU nations would think madness.

As regards paying, there is still a reduced transport budget, so cancel the upgrades from New Ross to Enniscorthy & the Enniscorthy to Wexford projects if savings are to be made & just build the New Ross Bypass / Barrow bridge & immediate approach roads. That would perhaps save 2/3rd's of the total cost allocated for the related projects. Even cancel the new Gorey to Enniscorthy Road & Bypass if you need to

Perhaps I'm asking too much in assuming that the reduced transport budget outside the Greater Dublin Region is allocated fairly amongst the regions, if so perhaps there will be money available for this project.

If there isn't enough, then invest in the upgrade, of the Rosslare to Waterford line instead, with decent user friendly services including direct trains to Dublin & Waterford / Clonmel / Limerick Ennis / Galway which would be a drop in the ocean compared with the cost of the new Barrow Bridge.

Don't leave part of the country isolated & without adequate transport connections to adjacent regions, it will only result in decades of stagnation for local people.

However my gut feeling is, along with many others, that soon, railway services with cease to exist south of Wexford Town or even Gorey in the nearby future.

Aard

purplepanda wrote: »

I've answered most of your concerns in previous posts apart from your suggestions that railway lines that don't make a profit should be axed which would close all in Ireland apart from Luas & maybe Dublin / Cork Belfast something which most EU nations would think madness.

You have deliberately misread what I wrote. I said that the closed railway lines were "not heavily used". Profitability was secondary, yet you focussed on that as though it were the thrust of my point.

purplepanda

Aard wrote: »

You have deliberately misread what I wrote. I said that the closed railway lines were "not heavily used". Profitability was secondary, yet you focussed on that as though it were the thrust of my point.

Whatever spin you put on the issue, a railway line can't be heavily used if...

A) There is one service each way per day which doesn't return to some of the original stations that the outward journey started from
Doesn't connect up with other regional & national services to enable passengers to travel to further destinations.
C) Existing services are unreliable & often involve bus substitutes
D) They fail to advertise & promote the service.
E) They operate a closure by stealth policy to undermine the service
F) They fail to honestly report the financial costs involved in running the service
G) They refuse to consider expanding the service, even though their published research indicates that the Rosslare - Waterford line, with an increased level of service, would certainly be as viable as many other regional railway lines.
H) IE also has many perfectly viable train sets with years of potential use lying in railway sidings in Waterford & Dublin & probably other locations that would still be in regular use in other countries.