More Travellers Tales

A Country Voice

so, we all, (well most of us), agree that travellers are more involved in crime than settled people, or to put it another way, most travellers are involved in crime. Not all of them, But as has already been said 95% or 99% are, so yes, the other few do get tarred with the same brush, (not literally mods, i'm not advocating torture!!)
How do we tackle this criminal ethnic minority though? I put forward a solution, which was deleted as the mods didn't like it. Anyone else got any solutions?

A country voice

billy the squid

A Country Voice wrote: »

so, we all, (well most of us), agree that travellers are more involved in crime than settled people, or to put it another way, most travellers are involved in crime. Not all of them, But as has already been said 95% or 99% are, so yes, the other few do get tarred with the same brush, (not literally mods, i'm not advocating torture!!)
How do we tackle this criminal ethnic minority though? I put forward a solution, which was deleted as the mods didn't like it. Anyone else got any solutions?

A country voice

Where is your evidence that 95-99 percent of all travellers are involved in crime.

If your are going to quote statistics, back them up rather than pulling random percentages out of the air.

Wolfe Tone

The perception is there. It is high time that travelers stood up and disassociated themselves from such things.

billy the squid

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The perception is there. It is high time that travelers stood up and disassociated themselves from such things.

Perception and fact are two different things. the poster above my previous post was quoting perception as fact which is totally dishonest.

pablomakaveli

billy the squid wrote: »

Perception and fact are two different things. the poster above my previous post was quoting perception as fact which is totally dishonest.

I think you have to take what that poster said with a pinch of salt.

nuac

I do hope Darsed's posts was a leg-pull.

I have known many traveller families. Huge proportion would steal the milk from your tea. Setting them up as tourist guides would not be a good idea.

The Revenue and CAB should investigate the wealthier travellers.

skelliser

what is the % of travellers claim dole? think i heard 75% somewhere but cant remember where.

A Country Voice

seamus wrote: »

The figures are out there alright. Travellers represent somewhere between 4% and 5% of the total prison population, and 0.5% of the general population.

So on the face of it, travellers are 8 to 10 times more likely to be involved in crime.

That's far too simplistic though, there are too many factors involved here to make a call on it. However, even when compared to working class communities, the rate of criminal activity is far higher.

There was a report published a few years ago by an NGO. I'm sure Google will show it. They were trying to put a pro-traveller slant on it, but ultimately showed the bare truth of it.

I'm quoting the above post which shows that travellers are much more likely to be involved in criminal activity than settled people. 8-10 times as mentioned above. Ok maybe not 95% of travellers are criminals, but it is still a lot higher than the rest of us.

A country voice

A Country Voice

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I think you have to take what that poster said with a pinch of salt.

Explain please??

A Country Voice

Coillte_Bhoy

A Country Voice wrote: »

I'm quoting the above post which shows that travellers are much more likely to be involved in criminal activity than settled people. 8-10 times as mentioned above. Ok maybe not 95% of travellers are criminals, but it is still a lot higher than the rest of us.

A country voice

Those figures show that travellers make up a disproprotionate % of prisoners. it does not say they are more likely to be involved in criminal activity. Ti suggest figures of 99% like you did is just ridiculous and isnt even worth of reply unless you can quote real figures.

BTW why do you sign your posts with your username??? Very pretentious imo

billy the squid

A Country Voice wrote: »

I'm quoting the above post which shows that travellers are much more likely to be involved in criminal activity than settled people. 8-10 times as mentioned above. Ok maybe not 95% of travellers are criminals, but it is still a lot higher than the rest of us.

A country voice

But is it because they are travellers or because they are marginalised.

let us just say for the sake of arguement that 25 percent of travellers are criminals and 10 percent of settled people are criminals.

Whap percentage of the settled community would be marginalised - refused a job because they come from a rough area

Now ask your self, what percentage of settled people living on "the wrong side of the tracks" are involved in crime.

I would imagine that the percentage of those people involved in crme would be higher than the percentage of those living in the leafy suburbs.

My point being that criminality is not a trait of being a traveller, but more the result of marginalisation.

A Country Voice

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Those figures show that travellers make up a disproprotionate % of prisoners. it does not say they are more likely to be involved in criminal activity. Ti suggest figures of 99% like you did is just ridiculous and isnt even worth of reply unless you can quote real figures.

BTW why do you sign your posts with your username??? Very pretentious imo

If travellers make up a disproportionate percentage of prisoners in our prisons, it does prove that they are more likely to be involved in criminal activity. Thats exactly what it proves.

Your're not seriously telling me that you think theres more travellers in prison because more of them get caught than settled people.

Btw whats pretentious about signing my posts A Country Voice???
Thats who I am???

A Country Voice

billy the squid wrote: »

But is it because they are travellers or because they are marginalised.

let us just say for the sake of arguement that 25 percent of travellers are criminals and 10 percent of settled people are criminals.

Whap percentage of the settled community would be marginalised - refused a job because they come from a rough area

Now ask your self, what percentage of settled people living on "the wrong side of the tracks" are involved in crime.

I would imagine that the percentage of those people involved in crme would be higher than the percentage of those living in the leafy suburbs.

My point being that criminality is not a trait of being a traveller, but more the result of marginalisation.

I agree totally with you billy

Thats why its not just travellers that are the problem.
I never said it was.
They are part of the problem though.
Marginalisation hurts settled people too. Limericks regeneration has led to many people from certain famous trouble spots being relocated to small country towns and villages in county limerick, and as with any proposal to locate a halting site in any rural community, any proposal to relocate settled people from these now famous estates to small villages and towns brings dread to people who have built up these communities over generations.
They know trouble is on the way, whether its travellers or settled troublemakers that are on the way.
Thats the reputation that these groups have. Not all people from those estates are criminals or troublemakers either, but they too all get tarred with the same brush.

A Country Voice

pablomakaveli

A Country Voice wrote: »

Explain please??

A Country Voice

95-99%? Really?

Nijmegen

There are no reliable statistics available on traveller crime and menace to the community because it would be un-PC to produce these statistics. Add up crime, cost to clean up after them, etc, and I'm sure it would not be a pretty picture.

Anyone who has had travellers encamp nearby their home has not got a good story to tell. Gardai will privately tell you that they are trouble. Pub owners will not let them in because it is well known that they will start fights and break the place up.

Is all of this because we Irish need someone to pick on?

Or is it because travellers do cause trouble when they move in next to you? Or that they are dangerous criminals? Or that they do break up venues they go to?

Am I right in thinking that Billy is of traveler descent?

Travelers are an absolute blight on our society. The only reason why there isn't more of them locked up is because the guards won't go near them as has already been said, and even if they do end up being charged they can just go on the lamb - such as the Ward scumbag in the McNally case.

I really feel for anyone who has to live near these savages.

oppenheimer1

aDeener wrote: »

has anyone any figures for the level of crime and convictions in the travelling community?

judging by our locality's experiences (all the travellers have criminal convictions) i'd imagine it to be quite high and i would finally like to be able to rubbish the "small minority" argument :rolleyes:

You have no way of knowing if that is true. Making things up weakens the argument.

billy the squid

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that Billy is of traveler descent?

Travelers are an absolute blight on our society. The only reason why there isn't more of them locked up is because the guards won't go near them as has already been said, and even if they do end up being charged they can just go on the lamb - such as the Ward scumbag in the McNally case.

I really feel for anyone who has to live near these savages.

You can't just come on here and claim X percent of something to be true without proof. The point I have put accross is a valid one where crime rates are higher amongst the marginalised. it is why, for example, crime rates amongst black Americans is higher than amonst whites.

I wasn't aware only people of only selected ethnicity could question statistics cited on the internet.

seamus

billy the squid wrote: »

You can't just come on here and claim X percent of something to be true without proof. The point I have put accross is a valid one where crime rates are higher amongst the marginalised. it is why, for example, crime rates amongst black Americans is higher than amonst whites.

That's actually why I said my 8-10 times figure was too simplistic. There are a lot of factors here:

- Less educated communites tend to be involved in criminal activity moreso than well educated ones. Travellers are largely poorly educated.

- Juries are often biased against minorities, the same effect can be seen with black prisoners in the US, where juries will often convict a black man on a good deal less solid evidence than they would convict a white man.

- The true extent of criminality in the traveller community is hard to estimate because they are xenophobic, insular and protectionist by nature. It's very difficult to catch those that are breaking the law in the first place, so the numbers caught may only represent a fraction of those breaking the law.

jmayo

billy the squid wrote: »

But is it because they are travellers or because they are marginalised.

let us just say for the sake of arguement that 25 percent of travellers are criminals and 10 percent of settled people are criminals.

Whap percentage of the settled community would be marginalised - refused a job because they come from a rough area

Now ask your self, what percentage of settled people living on "the wrong side of the tracks" are involved in crime.

I would imagine that the percentage of those people involved in crme would be higher than the percentage of those living in the leafy suburbs.

My point being that criminality is not a trait of being a traveller, but more the result of marginalisation.

That is the problem with this and lots of countries.
Because someone comes from a certain area and/or a certain group there are given excuses for their bad behaviour and criminality.
Screw that for a game of cowboys.

How come some people from those groups and areas can lead normal honest hardworking lives whereas the scumbags turn to dealing drugs, robbing people, assualting people and murdering people.
They are being excused by this crap about how they are marginalised and don't get breaks.

They make a choice to go out and do things like target some old people living alone, tie them up, torture them and leave them to die as was done to a number of people in West of Ireland down the years.
You can be marginalised, you can have had a rough time in life and yet lo and behold you decide that you don't want to inflict harm on others.

Yet these scumbags do want to inflict harm on others.
Then we have the do gooders making excuses for these people.

A guy convicted of major arson attack on Dublin city garage in 2007 was given suspended sentence this week by judge even though he had 12 previous convictions, all because he had been reared by his 15 old sister rather than his drug addict mother.
F***ing disgrace of a justice system.

BTW this rant is aimed at all the scumbags who are excused be they settled, traveller, black, white, catholic or whatever.

Nijmegen

Seven travellers are before the courts because they took over a Dublin pub and smashed it up to the tune of €90,000 before the Gardai went in and took them out by force.

They're offering €9,000 compensation and hope to get off lightly, which they likely will.

Yet more "anecdotal" evidence about why pubs won't let travellers in, hotels won't allow traveller weddings, etc?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0708/1224274266509.html

FTA69

A Country Voice wrote: »

I'm quoting the above post which shows that travellers are much more likely to be involved in criminal activity than settled people. 8-10 times as mentioned above. Ok maybe not 95% of travellers are criminals, but it is still a lot higher than the rest of us.

A country voice

"99% of Travellers are criminals"

"Ok maybe not all of them, they're eh... ten times more likely to be criminals... and eh...eh... I hate Pavees!"

You're making up bullsh*t on the spot and it's blatantly obvious.

Laminations

Whatever about the ridiculous bandying about of 'off the top of the head' statistics, jmayo above is right. Marginalisation may be a reason but it is not an excuse. All those marginalised are not criminals, all poor people are not criminals. You have your circumstances, and yes if they are rubbish the government should have a duty to help, but ultimately at the end of the day when it comes to living within the law we all have a choice. If you want to argue against free will you end up with a more worrying situation where people have no choice and are destined to be criminals as a result of circumstance.

On topic my experience of travellers has been majority bad. This however ≠ the majority of travellers are bad. They do IMO still have to seriously deal with the elements within their community they are causing the ill perception of them as a whole. Rather then lashing out at the media for stoking the fire by exaggerating the trouble within the traveller community, if I was a traveller I'd be looking at those people within the community who were providing fuel for the fire.

Byron85

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

stop

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

Just the ones I regularly have to move on from my workplace for poking around delivery yards trying to steal stuff.

Nijmegen

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

Yes. Three times I have had travellers encamp nearby to where I live, twice in different homes and several years apart. I have also encountered them through work, and from speaking with others who have had experiences such as residents, Gardai and business owners, including publicans and hotel managers.

But my main first hand experience is a collective six months living with different groups of them.

Laminations

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

I'm sure most people have but because travellers generally keep to themselves, its likely that they are up to no good when people come in contact with them.

On numerous occasions I had travellers robbing from a shop I worked in, they were often caught and then blue murder broke out. I myself got threatened after stopping a woman robbing quite a large item. She tried to convince me it was hers to begin with before bursting out that I was only doing this 'cos she was a traveller'. Funny thing was I didnt know she was a traveller before she said this and it was obviously an attempt to embarrass me (which it did) into ending the standoff by letting her walk off with the thing (which I didnt). So she threatened to slash my face, have her fella come back and slash my face, have her kids slash my face - there were a lot of face slashing threats.

There is also a halting site nearby where I live that is overflowing with piles of rubbish which regularly get set on fire. Another halting site near dunsink which I'd drive by on the m50 also regularly has plumes of smoke billowing from it. Now I cant imagine its catholic priests burning rubbish on these sites - its travellers.

I was 'held up' at knife point and robbed on Abbey street in Dublin when I was a teen, again by travellers but I've also had many attempted muggings by homeless heroin addicts.

Like I said my direct experience has been majority bad but I dont have the experience to conclusively say the majority of travellers are bad.

Whyme

I consider myself an open minded non racist and would happily live along side any nationality or creed as long as they observe normal human values ,however I have an absolute hatred of Travellers . I used to work for a company that backed onto a well know halting site in Dublin. On many an occasion the animals on the other side of the wall would defecate and urinate into plastic bags and lob them over the wall . I can tell you when one of these lands on your neck you will change your opinion of these sub species.

tallus

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

They broke into my house several weeks back and it cost me over €700 to have a window replaced.
Scum of the earth. End of story.
I'm living on close to minimum wage trying to pay a mortgage/car/petrol/food/tv licence/ etc, and these low life **** do what they want.

Valmont

Laminations wrote: »

Like I said my direct experience has been majority bad but I dont have the experience to conclusively say the majority of travellers are bad.

Same here. One pissed on my skateboard when I was younger and told me he would get me killed if I tried to stop him. It's high time they are given the same treatment as ordinary citizens. No special treatment, start paying tax, buying their own land (they wouldn't mess it up so readily then), and just stepping into line really.