Suspended sentence for burning down a car dealership

Cookie_Monster

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tHE dismayed co-owner of a car dealership set ablaze in a €280,000 arson attack said last night the justice system had ignored his plight after one of the perpetrators received a suspended sentence.

Patrick Harcourt (22), of Dunne Street Flats, Dublin 1, pleaded guilty to causing "damage by fire" to vehicles at Fort Motors, Walkinstown in Dublin, and was given a three-year suspended sentence at the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.

CCTV footage showed Harcourt, who has 12 previous convictions, arriving outside the dealership in a car just minutes before the attack at midnight on March 12, 2007.

One of his passengers emerged from the car with a petrol container, before returning from the premises minutes later and fleeing the scene.

Gardai told the court that more than €280,000 worth of damage had been done.

This was compounded by long-term damage to the viability of the business.

Cyril Molloy, who co-owns the 50-year-old family dealership with his brother Paul, said there were "uninsured losses of about another €100,000" that were not included in that estimate.

"It sends a very clear signal to those people who mean harm that they can go and do what they like and even if they are caught red-handed they will walk free," he told the Irish Independent last night.

Mr Molloy's business, which had been the victim of four arson attacks over a two-year period, was "ravaged", he said, before the recession even had a chance to bring the motor industry to its knees.

"This happened back in 2007, before the economic downturn, so this attack meant that we were being ravaged for two years prior to the recession," he said.

"Arson is a very serious crime, and such was the extent of the damage that I don't think you could have a more serious arson attack, barring somebody getting killed. The criminal-justice system has effectively ignored us as victims.

"There is nothing we can do. That's the criminal-justice system we have in this country.

"The gardai and the detective unit in Crumlin did everything they could -- they caught someone red-handed.

"It has been a huge ordeal for all of us here. The personal effect that it has had on our own family and the families of our 50 employees has been something else.

"Everybody's jobs were put in jeopardy and we struggled to keep our insurance in place.

"We're a tightly knit business and nobody here can believe that someone who pleads guilty could walk free."

Ordeal

Judge Patricia Ryan said the court took into account the serious nature of the charge and the dire financial consequences that it had for Fort Motors.

She also said the court noted Harcourt's personal circumstances, in that his drug-addicted mother died in 2001, leaving his sister, who was 15 years old at the time, to raise him.

In suspending the sentence, Judge Ryan said the court had taken into account Harcourt's good employment record, his standing in the community, his early plea of guilty and testimonials to his good character.

Garda Sgt Barry Butler said 11 vehicles had been completely destroyed in the blaze, while 17 others were damaged.

There was also €46,348 worth of damage to the building. He said the dealership, which employs 50 people, suffered a total loss of €284,202 and its insurance cost has since risen to €250,000.

Sgt Butler told prosecutor Pat McGrath that investigating gardai tracked down Harcourt using CCTV footage of his car's registration details.

They also placed him at the scene through cell-site analysis on a mobile phone seized during a raid on his home, despite him naming his girlfriend as an alibi.

Sgt Butler said Harcourt gave a different alibi once gardai confirmed that he hadn't been with his girlfriend on the night, as he had claimed.

what planet is that judge on. So she took into account his "good standing" and employment record but not his 12 previous convictions. :mad:
The comment the dealership owner made is exactly right, you can get away with anything in Ireland these days without fear.
Once again the victim is the only one to suffer under Irish law.

NoHornJan

Another part of the governments scrappage scheme.

Run_to_da_hills

But again, you can sell a bong and get 5 years, makes sense. :rolleyes:

syklops

My uncle always says, a good fire is better than a bad sale.

Gummy Panda

I think we need new judges in Ireland.

NoHornJan

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I think we need new judges in Ireland.

And more jails...

pickarooney

Can the victim not take civil action against the criminal and sue him for the damages? He'd be guaranteed to win and should be able to get his wages garnished. He'd at least get something back and the arsonist wouldn't be costing the state anything while he effectively worked for the victim for a few years.


Hahahahaha, only joking, in what kind of fairytale kingdom would something like that happen?

petethebrick

Absolute fukcing disgrace. But this sort of stuff goes on everyday we just don't hear about it. Sentencing in this country is pathetic

Dravokivich

That's fúcking unreal... he's being brought up for Arson, but being let off for being "A nice guy..."

fúck me I'm regarded as a nice guy... might cause me some mayhem this weekend and then get my references ready for when I'm brought to court over it.

maninasia

Get rid of the judge ...she's not doing her job, should be protecting the population.

orourkeda

maninasia wrote: »

Get rid of the judge ...she's not doing her job, should be protecting the population.

It's npt the judges fault alone. They are working within the bounds of the law. This is the real problem.

CreepingDeath

Feck sake, so any old sob story about mothers dying and drugs means you get immunity from prosecution ?

If I lit a feckin green bin on fire I'd get worse.

Dravokivich

orourkeda wrote: »

It's npt the judges fault alone. They are working within the bounds of the law. This is the real problem.

The Law did not confine her to letting this go off so lightly.

Lando Griffin

If he burned down her house, would the sentence be the same for this person of good employment record, his standing in the community, his early plea of guilty and testimonials to his good character.

She really needs to come out of the clouds and join the real world.

ToxicPaddy

Confines of the law????

Where the hell does it say in the law that arson = suspended sentence?

That guy should be locked up and made suffer for his actions.. so what if he had a "difficult" upbringing or he's a "nice guy".. he over €280k worth of damage to a premises because he was p*ssed off about something.. it was premeditated, so nothing accidental about it, he planned and executed this to do the maximum damage he could.

His actions nearly crippled a business and threatened 50 jobs in an industry that is on its knees at the moment, how the hell does a judge ignore that?
He pleaded guilty after lying about his alibi, he knew he was caught and probably pleaded guilty as he knows the system, (12 previous convictions!!), plead guilty and they take it easy on you.. :mad:

That judge needs to open her eyes and have a serious think about her decisions and how they affect others, its a complete f*cking joke that a piece of scum like that can walk away with a suspended sentence for something like arson. :mad: :mad:

From that pic in the article, does he look like someone who is genuinely sorry for his actions??? :rolleyes:

I.S.T.

Wow, the judge is quite clearly not living on the same planet as the rest of us. Disgrace.

stovelid

The state of the arsonist in that picture. He looks like he couldn't get much higher.

I.S.T.

stovelid wrote: »

The state of the arsonist in that picture. He looks like he couldn't get much higher.

He couldn't even be bothered to put on a suit for the court hearing. Says it all really.

Cookie_Monster

I assume the judge may have found some mitigating circumstances. Where the cars Renaults? Nothing wrong with destroying a few of them and saving a lot of people constant heartbreak for years

prinz

The Irish court system......... :mad:

People need to lay off the gardaí for a while and start focusing their anger where it is needed most.

ch750536

Reading between the lines the dealer should have paid the protection money, the judge just paid his.

Doolittle51

Another ridiculous suspended sentence from earlier this week:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/walter-mitty-who-pretended-to-be-a-garda-avoids-jail-2239466.html

This guy commited 3 serious offenses and walked away scot free. (Impersonating a Garda, Possesion of firearms and possesion of child porn)

The sad thing about it is, he sounds a bit crazy and probably needs professional help. I wonder how long it'll be before he does something else mad.

Sanjuro

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So she took into account his "good standing" and employment record but not his 12 previous convictions. :mad:

Remember those two gardai that were killed by joyriders on the Stillorgan Dual Carriageway years back? The driver had something in the region of 80 previous convictions. It took him actually killing two people in order for the court to properly deal with him.

I was in court as a witness when myself and a mate were mugged by a piece of shit (not literally. That would have been amazing) years ago. My da accompanied me to the court. He knew the duty office on call at the time. And the one thing I remember him saying was- 'the judges in this country spend their entire lives in a different world to the rest of us.' They have no idea how to sentence and the law is completely skewed in favour of the criminal. Just another wonderful thing about living in Ireland.

stovelid

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

He couldn't even be bothered to put on a suit for the court hearing. Says it all really.

You said it. The time to hesitate is through: time to crack down on them.

enda1

Does it matter that it was a business set ablaze I wonder. The fact that the victim is an incorporated company rather than a private individual?

Though of course the real victims are the business owners, but I guess they can't be considered in terms of law because of the separation of the company's legal entity.

Other option of course is that the criminal was paid to do this by the business owner to recoup losses. Perhaps the insurance policy is worth a lot more than the actual value... Probably not though...

rovert

A thought it was a fair decision.

Obviously there is a bit more to the case than stated.

funk-you

I hate these types of bandwagons but this pisses me off no end.

I've never been charged with anything, never hurt anyone, never stolen, always try to lead a good life, never even claimed the dole and just want to get by and be left alone.

I work hard and pay an extortionate amount of taxes every month but I guarantee that if I so much as pissed on a car tyre and got caught or told a Garda to fuck off I'd get the same sentence because my parent did just like me. Worked hard and never looked for anything off anyone.

Fuck you Judge. Come into the real world and get your head out of 'Hard knocks for Dummies'. I grew up in a deprived area. So fucking what. I made the most of what I had. This fella is just a knacker, plain and simple.

-Funk

Greenday9765

The most incredible part of this story is that Judge Patricia Ryan is the wife of Minister for Finance, and former Minister for Justice Mr. Brian Lenihan!

The Government says it is tough on crime but this is how the Lenihan dynasty treats arson!

Whats the point in the cops arresting people at all...

rovert

funk-you wrote: »

I hate these types of bandwagons but this pisses me off no end.

I've never been charged with anything, never hurt anyone, never stolen, always try to lead a good life, never even claimed the dole and just want to get by and be left alone.

I work hard and pay an extortionate amount of taxes every month but I guarantee that if I so much as pissed on a car tyre and got caught or told a Garda to fuck off I'd get the same sentence because my parent did just like me. Worked hard and never looked for anything off anyone.

Fuck you Judge. Come into the real world and get your head out of 'Hard knocks for Dummies'. I grew up in a deprived area. So fucking what. I made the most of what I had. This fella is just a knacker, plain and simple.

-Funk

Greenday9765 wrote: »

The most incredible part of this story is that Judge Patricia Ryan is the wife of Minister for Finance, and former Minister for Justice Mr. Brian Lenihan!

The Government says it is tough on crime but this is how the Lenihan dynasty treats arson!

Whats the point in the cops arresting people at all...

I cant believe these type of posts continue to be posted. Look at what we here an arson case involving the most honest, salt of the earth, never lied to anyone type of profession. :rolleyes:

Hmmm....

Coriolanus

orourkeda wrote: »

It's npt the judges fault alone. They are working within the bounds of the law. This is the real problem.

I'm pretty sure it's within the bounds of the law to jail the fúcker. Just because there's an allowance for suspended sentences doesn't mean it should have been used this time.

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

A thought it was a fair decision.

Obviously there is a bit more to the case than stated.

how can you think that was a fair result?

Caught burning down a building. history of criminal activity. walks away scot free...

I bet if it was me, from a middle class family, no convictions etc it would be jail time cos I have no sob story to tell.

rovert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how can you think that was a fair result?

Caught burning down a building. history of criminal activity. walks away scot free...

I bet if it was me, from a middle class family, no convictions etc it would be jail time cos I have no sob story to tell.

Nevore wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's within the bounds of the law to jail the fúcker. Just because there's an allowance for suspended sentences doesn't mean it should have been used this time.

What if the judge the didnt fully believe that the arsonist and the car dealer were acting independently of each other?

eightyfish

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I bet if it was me, from a middle class family, no convictions etc it would be jail time cos I have no sob story to tell.

Except for your addiction to cookies.

Cookie_Monster

eightyfish wrote: »

Except for your addiction to cookies.

thats fully under control...
I swear...

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

What if the judge the didnt fully believe that the arsonist and the car dealer were acting independently of each other?

why would that make a difference, its still arson and then its insurance fraud also and still a serious crime worthy of a lot of jail time.

rovert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why would that make a difference, its still arson and then its insurance fraud also and still a serious crime worthy of a lot of jail time.

It makes a difference to the sentence obviously.

Again my reading of the summary the Judge had difficulty establishing the motive.

Ok lads you can go back to your Grrr Irish Legal system Grrr meme now.

maninasia

orourkeda wrote: »

It's npt the judges fault alone. They are working within the bounds of the law. This is the real problem.

I'm pretty sure the law says JAILTIME for arson and property damage. But sure he came from a 'broken home'. A joke...

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

Again my reading of the summary the Judge had difficulty establishing the motive.

filthy scumbag who thought it'd be a laugh. Seems to be the motive for a lot of crimes these days.

Greyfox

Theirs too many lenient judges out their and their ruining the country. I don't care if jails are full, build new ones and I'm pissed off with the completely overused Johnny came from a poor backround defence.

The judges will never change because Ireland is full of bra**dead muppets who believe it's best to let scumbags off lightly in the hope that they don't commit crime again rather then teaching them a harsh lesson which will make damn sure they don't do it again. Scumbags out their know in advance that they can expect major leniency the first time they get caught commiting a crime, our legal system sends out a very clear message that if it's your first offence then it's not a big deal

prinz

rovert wrote: »

It makes a difference to the sentence obviously.Again my reading of the summary the Judge had difficulty establishing the motive.Ok lads you can go back to your Grrr Irish Legal system Grrr meme now.

If there was significant doubt or inconsistencies with the motive and background the prosecution wouldn't have proceeded.

Dilynnio

Was he from South County Dublin??!!:D

plein de force

that's all he got?

/off to bill cullens with petrol and matches :pac:

Cookie_Monster

Dilynnio wrote: »

Was he from South County Dublin??!!:D

FFS did you even read the first post

Patrick Harcourt (22), of Dunne Street Flats, Dublin 1

joker77

Anyone know that background as to why he set fire to the place? Wasn't mentioned in the article I read, which I found odd.

rovert

prinz wrote: »

If there was significant doubt or inconsistencies with the motive and background the prosecution wouldn't have proceeded.

Christ again:

What if the judge the didnt fully believe that the arsonist and the car dealer were acting independently of each other?

joker77 wrote: »

Anyone know that background as to why he set fire to the place? Wasn't mentioned in the article I read, which I found odd.

Forget that all the kewl kids are jumping to conclusions. GO!

Dilynnio

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

FFS did you even read the first post

Well I am glad they are spreading the injustice across the other side of the Liffey so!:D

starbelgrade

The only explanation I can think of is that it was one of Bill Cullen's dealerships, in which case, the sentence was quite harsh.

Dublin_Gunner

pickarooney wrote: »

Can the victim not take civil action against the criminal and sue him for the damages? He'd be guaranteed to win and should be able to get his wages garnished. He'd at least get something back and the arsonist wouldn't be costing the state anything while he effectively worked for the victim for a few years.

Well he could, and he'd win, but I seriously doubt Mr. Harcourt would have the funds available to pay out the award... So in essence it would be pointless.

May as well get him locked up, let him build himself up to be a much stronger, fitter, leaner arson machine while he's at it. Oh, and feed him and let him watch tele.

What if the judge the didnt fully believe that the arsonist and the car dealer were acting independently of each other?

Rovert - are you serious?? Why would the judge come to such a conclusion?? That's madness lol

And surely, if lets say that was the case, it would have been used in Mr. Harcourts defence, and the garage owner would have been convicted.

Don't be so silly.

prinz

rovert wrote: »

Christ again:What if the judge the didnt fully believe that the arsonist and the car dealer were acting independently of each other?

If the judge had real reason to believe that they weren't then case would not have proceeded as it did.

Even if the judge didn't fully believe that then a suspended sentence after multiple convictions is still ridiculous.

rovert wrote: »

Forget that all the kewl kids are jumping to conclusions. GO!

What like the conclusion that the sentence was fair based on what if and imagination?

jimmycrackcorm

Time to bring in the three strikes law so you get life on the third conviction. That would cut crime figures massively

starbelgrade

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Time to bring in the three strikes law so you get life on the third conviction. That would cut crime figures massively

Are you sure about that, or did you just make that up? Because when they brought it in, in New York, the crime rate actually rose.