Why are Americans stereotyped as stupid|

RepublicanEagle

Why are Americans stereotyped as being stupid?

( Don't get me wrong, it is obvious every country has their own negative stereotype, and apologies for my bad typing regarding the absence of a question mark for the title. )

Is it because of what people percieve to be;

-Their over-exaggerated patriotism?

-Their mass and zombie-like consumerism which in turn shows their society up as a system resembling a flock of sheep (or zombies)?

-Aggressive capitalism and complete and ridiculous distaste for socialism?

-Disregard for the enviroment?

Rap music?Fast food?Obesity?

What is it?

looksee

Didn't we just have this discussion?

Thomas828

The Jerry Springer show did nothing to improve the image of Americans.

tommyhaas

Maybe people are misunderestimating the Americans???

nyarlothothep

I would like to think that when people say americans are stupid what they really mean is naive. The USA is a tech leader, granted how many of their leading scientists are american? But I dont think they're stupid, there is an anti intellectual culture so far as I can discern, but then Ireland has one too as do many other countries. The religious right are too powerful, superstition is quite rampant for a 1st world country.

blue_steel

They are perceived as stupid because the majority of them are. Most of the population are kept ignorant and ill-informed by a ruling elite just like in every other country. The capitalist system required a large poorly educated proletariat who will work for fúck all. The Americans are just better at it than anywhere else.

looksee

blue_steel wrote: »

They are perceived as stupid because the majority of them are.

What's that saying - it takes one to know one.

Why do people feel free to slander an entire nation, are you forgetting that you are probably related to about half of them?

blue_steel

looksee wrote: »

What's that saying - it takes one to know one.

Why do people feel free to slander an entire nation, are you forgetting that you are probably related to about half of them?

Read the rest of the post.

Fuinseog

RepublicanEagle wrote: »

Why are Americans sterotyped as being stupid?

( Don't get me wrong, it is obvious every country has their own negative stereotype, and apologies for my bad typing regarding the absence of a question mark for the title. )

Is it because of what people percieve to be;

-Their over-exaggerated patriotism?

-Their mass and zombie-like consumerism which in turn shows their society up as a system resembling a flock of sheep (or zombies)?

-Aggressive capitalism and complete and ridiculous distaste for socialism?

-Disregard for the enviroment?

Rap music?Fast food?Obesity?

What is it?

people, especially poorly educated ones like to consider other people stupid so they can feel good about themselves.
americans are 'stupid' because they know so little about the world outside of america. people do not realise that america is a continent, which is why to speak of americans sound ridiculous. I mean not all europeans are the same. what is typical american. surely there is a difference between a red neck and a new yorker or a californian.

folks in america there are more interested in their own families and jobs rather than what is happening in Albania.
americans lack general knowledge, although this also the case in ireland-just listen to a radio quizz how. the questions are no exactly challenging.

Fuinseog

Thomas828 wrote: »

The Jerry Springer show did nothing to improve the image of Americans.

nor does the adrian Kennedy show do anything for the image of dubs.

Fuinseog

tommyhaas wrote: »

Maybe people are misunderestimating the Americans???

why can Irish people not speak English properly? i.e 'I seen him do it', three and tree should vary in pronunciation

Fuinseog

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I would like to think that when people say americans are stupid what they really mean is naive. The USA is a tech leader, granted how many of their leading scientists are american? But I dont think they're stupid, there is an anti intellectual culture so far as I can discern, but then Ireland has one too as do many other countries. The religious right are too powerful, superstition is quite rampant for a 1st world country.

are americans naive? i think they are respectful and are unsure how to behave when in europe, as every country in europe has different customs.
americans are polite, but if you mess with them they will shoot you. irish tend to be more aggressive.

americans are open to new ideas. europe is more conservative in this regard.

looksee

blue_steel wrote: »

Read the rest of the post.

And your 'explanation' makes it ok to dismiss an entire nation?

tommyhaas

Fuinseog wrote: »

why can Irish people not speak English properly? i.e 'I seen him do it', three and tree should vary in pronunciation

Suppose its just down to dialectics. Why did the the last American President just make up his own words? (misunderestimate)

Truley

Fuinseog wrote: »

people do not realise that america is a continent, which is why to speak of americans sound ridiculous.

I think when the OP referred to 'America' he is referring to the USA which is a country :pac:

What really enforces the 'stupid American' stereotype for me has always been the American accent and their media. First of all their accent, to an Irish person, comes across as very crass and winey, like that loud obnoxious girl you see at every party. It seems like they speak with a really simplified grammar structure too. Growing up I always associated the American accent with sitcoms and trashy talk shows. So whenever I hear a political speech or a news report from America I find it difficult to take it seriously.

As well as that, American TV seems alot more naff than what you would get in the UK/Ireland. It's hard to explain, the best example I can give is when they remake English shows for American audiences (for example supernanny or wife swap.) It always involves adding flashy graphics, crazy music and sound effects. Eveything is over exaggerated, it's like they can't understand subtlety.

Of course these are subconscious judgements I tend to make, I understand it's silly to generalise based on their media. There are other more obvious things that enforce the stereotype that other posters have mentioned before; seemingly blind patriotism, an inability to see outside their own country, a ridiculous thirst for war and their 'good guy' complex.

blue_steel

looksee wrote: »

And your 'explanation' makes it ok to dismiss an entire nation?

Again read my post:

Most of the population are kept ignorant and ill-informed by a ruling elite just like in every other country.

Pretty clear I wasn't dismissing any one nation.

caseyann

Fuinseog wrote: »

why can Irish people not speak English properly? i.e 'I seen him do it', three and tree should vary in pronunciation

Dont pick on our trees,i love how we speak and so does rest of world.P.S we dont speak proper English because are arent English.I would like to tell him:mad:

About Americans blame it on the tv.And blame it on the tourists who come here and are dumb and obese.As they are the ones who get talked about most.(Not that makes them bad people either)
Like the girls here in Ireland who get tarred with all same brush as fat,ugly and mean and drunks.Not any fun to talk about the good decent honest pretty friendly smart Irish girls.
And when women or men go abroad to other countries,most people will spread the rumours about the lower percentage of engaging with one or two from what ever country and tar them all with same brush.
Like criminals and thugs and drunks etc... etc....
It is unfortunately the way the world is.I was told that a few girls from Ireland went to turkey.They were out dancing and some guys from an arab country approached them.In the conversation when they realised they werent getting anywhere.They said we heard all Irish women are easy on first night and sluts.But they were thinking different when them girls wouldnt put out.
This is the way people think, i do not live by it,but alot of people do.

Fuinseog

Truley wrote: »

I think when the OP referred to 'America' he is referring to the USA which is a country :pac:

What really enforces the 'stupid American' stereotype for me has always been the American accent and their media. First of all their accent, to an Irish person, comes across as very crass and winey, like that loud obnoxious girl you see at every party. It seems like they speak with a really simplified grammar structure too. Growing up I always associated the American accent with sitcoms and trashy talk shows. So whenever I hear a political speech or a news report from America I find it difficult to take it seriously.

As well as that, American TV seems alot more naff than what you would get in the UK/Ireland. It's hard to explain, the best example I can give is when they remake English shows for American audiences (for example supernanny or wife swap.) It always involves adding flashy graphics, crazy music and sound effects. Eveything is over exaggerated, it's like they can't understand subtlety.

Of course these are subconscious judgements I tend to make, I understand it's silly to generalise based on their media. There are other more obvious things that enforce the stereotype that other posters have mentioned before; seemingly blind patriotism, an inability to see outside their own country, a ridiculous thirst for war and their 'good guy' complex.

the country of america is bigger than all of europe and people are different in the different regions, which is why i dislike 'typical america'. ditto with accents.
BTW americans work like slaves and save for years for a trip to ireland and all we are concerned with is ripping them off.
are we really mor open than americans. we do not really look beyond boston or bournemouth for our world view. the rets of europe does not really interest us. most irish peopel cannot speak anotehr european langauge with any degree of fluency, while a lot of americans can speak spannish.
if something like grammar is difficult the americans will simplify it. why not?

caseyann

Fuinseog wrote: »

the country of america is bigger than all of europe and people are different in the different regions, which is why i dislike 'typical america'. ditto with accents.
BTW americans work like slaves and save for years for a trip to ireland and all we are concerned with is ripping them off.
are we really mor open than americans. we do not really look beyond boston or bournemouth for our world view. the rets of europe does not really interest us. most irish peopel cannot speak anotehr european langauge with any degree of fluency, while a lot of americans can speak spannish.
if something like grammar is difficult the americans will simplify it. why not?

I think that is very un fair for you to say,Irish want to rip off Americans.I am sure it happens with some dishonest greedy people,but it happens to Irish abroad in USA etc... And everyone else where ever they go and they rip off eachother.
Also as Americans are made up of about almost every nationality in the world they have high level of fluency in other languages first and second generation of their families native language and then they learn what language is on offer to them in school.Same as every other country in the world.
And imo Irish look far wider than Americans would as they do not have to travel across the sea to get different.
And alot of Irish can speak three or four other European languages in some way or form.And others have no need for it as they travel out maybe for two weeks in the year.
So kindly dont generalise or we can all do that.

Livvie

Never forgotten the woman in the queue for Titanic. "The ship sinks??" she said to the guy who was interviewing various people. She then went on to complain that the ending had been ruined for her.

And dropping the "3" from The Madness of King George, especially for the American market who would think it was a trilogy.

But seriously, you can't just generalise about a whole nation. I've been to America and they're lovely. If anything though, they do tend to be somewhat insular, and lately they've become quite defensive.

sceptre

Livvie wrote: »

And dropping the "3" from The Madness of King George, especially for the American market who would think it was a trilogy.

That's something of a myth - the title was changed for the film everywhere from that of the original Bennett play with far more of an aim to appeal to a wider audience, as well as to slot "King" into the title for greater appeal (the original play was called The Madness of George III, not The Madness of King George III), as well as an eye to the international market. Including both "King" and "III" would be something of a redundancy after all. Movie makers have different ideas about titles than one playwright.

As for where the stereotype comes from, I suspect a few reasons. Firstly when international tourism in the jet age initially became popular, US citizens were far more likely to be travellers. They had more money after all. There wasn't (and isn't) the language gap when Americans travel to here or the UK and hence they're likely to be talking more to the locals. As a result, they were far more likely to be asking questions in greater detail than, for example, Germans or French people who'd travelled over on the boat, as well as expressing what they believe to be true. Someone with very little English is unlikely to be as expressive or questioning. The kind of person who would have travelled to here from the US in the 60s and 70s especially would have been rather more affluent than many of the people in the country they were visiting. Hence, there was a greater likelihood of a culture gap.

Also, people tend to forget that the US is a country rather larger than Europe. While it may seem rather odd to us that Americans don't know the capital of Spain or are amazed at the time it takes to travel from London to Edinburgh, there are plenty of us here who don't know the capital of South Dakota, who's the governor or where precisely to find Mount Rushmore. That's just for one state and not one of the better ones.

Self-importance. We're a nice bunch really but we rather think we're more important on the world stage than we are. Details of the 1916 rising, the independence of most of the country and the interesting bits involving the bit that didn't become independent seem so important to most of us that we can't comprehend the notion that educated Americans don't know all about it. We're small, get over it.

Criticising American regional accents is roughly as valid as criticising people from the dark depths of west Galway, Kerry or Waterford for being almost unintelligible. Accents are funny things. People have them. And sometimes they sound funny. That's the way it is. I'd be quite pleased if more Irish people remembered that the h in thorn is there for a reason but there are historical reasons why so many of us don't seem to notice (in modern times it's peculiar to the English and Icelandic languages - the Irish language never had dental fricatives as far as I know (despite the Eth symbol having an Irish origin) and rather rarely affricates) as well as modern reasons (most people talk like their parents).

What am I missing... oh yes - fun as it is to generalise Americans as stupid, the Germans as the most amazing organisers, the Italians as bad drivers, the Greeks and the Irish as lazy drunks, outside general comedy, generalisations aren't often all that valid.

mikemac

sceptre wrote: »

What am I missing... oh yes - fun as it is to generalise Americans as stupid, the Germans as the most amazing organisers, the Italians as bad drivers, the Greeks and the Irish as lazy drunks, outside general comedy, generalisations aren't often all that valid.

Having been in Rome recently, that stereotype is true, they are lunatics over there! :eek:

The Americans can be insular, most have never left their country and I believe I read some statistic that most don't have a passport.
So their world view comes from the media and they have a biased media the same as any other country.

They may know Dublin is in Ohio and Paris is in Illinois but not which European country has these as capitals.
So what?
I don't know the state capital of Vermont or Rhode Island yet we assume Americans must know more about Europe? Same goes for Presidents in Europe and governors of US states.

Einhard

I don't think they're more stupid in general than anyone else, but that they're quite ignorant about most places beyong their own borders. Which, when you think about the size of their country, is pretty understandable. The 6.1 news for example is an hour long, and at the very most 15 minutes of it every day relates to the world beyong Ireland. Indeed, even that often ivolves EU happenings which directly impact on Irish affairs. Most else often relates to American news. With a population 200 times that of Ireland's, and with most states having a population greater than ours, most of the cycle in America consists of local/national news. Unlike smaller states, you have to go out of your way in the US to find foreign reports unrelated to the national. In my opinion, that explains most of the apparent discrepancy in IQ.

Plus, all those Vox pops you see of Americans sounding really stupid are obviously edited. If they ask 100 people, and 90 are reasonably intelligent, they're gonna show the other 10%. It's like those books with silly answers that students have given. Doesn't mean that all students are idiots.

As to that earlier comment about capitalism, at least capitalists don't lock our intellectuals up in gulags.

Einhard

Fuinseog wrote: »

why can Irish people not speak English properly? i.e 'I seen him do it', three and tree should vary in pronunciation

It's Hiberno English. It would be odd if all English speakers sounded identical. Odd and boring. I would have thought someone with an Irish (?) nick wold have realised this.

Fuinseog

But seriously, you can't just generalise about a whole nation. I've been to America and they're lovely. If anything though, they do tend to be somewhat insular, and lately they've become quite defensive.[/QUOTE]


are they really more insular that we are? pick up a irish newspaper and you will not find much about what is happening in the rest of europe. certainly we watch a broad variety of programmes but in terms of european bonding we are quite insular.

Fuinseog

Einhard wrote: »

It's Hiberno English. It would be odd if all English speakers sounded identical. Odd and boring. I would have thought someone with an Irish (?) nick wold have realised this.

its one thing to speak dialect, but if you are a public representative you should be able to speak standardised English. however you might think of Brian Cowen he is not a dese, dat, dose man like his predecessor.

#15

Fuinseog wrote: »

its one thing to speak dialect, but if you are a public representative you should be able to speak standardised English. however you might think of Brian Cowen he is not a dese, dat, dose man like his predecessor.

There is no standardised English in Ireland though, is there?

It would be farcicial if Bertie tried to speak Standard British English using Received Pronunciation.

That would sound even worse than his own accent.

Einhard

Fuinseog wrote: »

its one thing to speak dialect, but if you are a public representative you should be able to speak standardised English. however you might think of Brian Cowen he is not a dese, dat, dose man like his predecessor.

Eh, who standardises the English though? It's nonsense to suggest that English speakers from across the globe should aspire to speak the language as it's spoken in Oxbridge or somewhere similar. Diversity is the life blood of language; it's what's made English the rich and flexible language it is today. To demand standardisation is not only linguistic snobbery, but also seems to smack of cultural inferiority, and would actually damage the language.

mikemac

Hiberno English is great.

I do be watching the World Cup most evenings or I do drinking most weekends.

The "do be" comes from Irish, it's to do with some present tense I believe, I don't know the exact technical explanation.

Variety is good, I don't want every English speaker to speak in a Mid Atlantic accent

cheesehead

According to Brendan O'Connor (social scientist), some Europeans criticize Americans for lacking "taste, grace and civility" and having a brazen and arrogant character. British author Frances Trollope observed in her 1832 book Domestic Manners of the Americans that the greatest difference between England and the United States was "want of refinement.", explaining that "that polish which removes the coarser and rougher parts of our nature is unknown and undreamed of" in America."

Glad to see the argument being advanced 178 years later.

Just remember, as Looksee alluded to earlier in the thread, one in five white Americans claim Irish ancestry.

doctorwu

I was in a pub last night Ecuador v Ghana two Americian girls asking whats going on. Nice people but because they believe America is the center of the world theres no need to engage with Global concerns. On the other hand the ones that do are some of
greates thinkers in the free world.

nkay1985

Before my years in college, my only knowledge of Americans was from what I saw on tv and read online. But, while in my second yearsin university, there were groups of Americans sending a semester in UL. I met two different groups, lived with a total of 4 of them and interacted quite a lot with around 50 of them. These students were all considered quite intelligent in the USA, having gotten high SAT (or equivalent) scores and gained admittance to some exclusive schools.

I couldn't believe it. The average level of intelligence appeared to be way lower than their Irish equivalents. There were some things that you can't hold against them, such as having very little world knowledge (from a group of 10 one night, one of them had vaguely heard of the Beslan tragedy which had only happened a couple of months previous) and having what I'd consider a very low level of English and poor vocabulary. These things can be partly explained by the dumbed-down media that seems to be the norm. But I was amazed at their level of knowledge of things that they were supposed to be specialising in in college. One guy was apparently really good at physics. I was a year younger than him and hadn't studied physics since the Leaving Cert and I could tell he didn't have a clue what he was talking about!

Another instance was a girl who lived with me who's best subject was history. She told me that she'd never gotten below an A- all through high school and two years of college. She started a history module at the same time as a couple of the Irish girls we knew, spent about twice as much time on an assignment as them and got a C while they got an A and a B respectively. She was distraught and was encouraged by her fellow Americans to go to the lecturer and question the grade. With red pen, he pointed out all the problems with her assignment. From what I remember, the assignment was poorly constructedand just not up to university standard.

So I've compared my peers here in Ireland with my peers from the USA first hand and I'd have to conclude that they are less intelligent. Whether that's caused by a bad education system or what, I don't know, but that was what I took from my experiences with them. I don't doubt that there are lots of highly intelligent Americans but my feeling is that the average level of intelligence would be lower there than here so maybe the stereotype is based somewhat on truth.

#15

nkay1985 wrote: »

I don't doubt that there are lots of highly intelligent Americans but my feeling is that the average level of intelligence would be lower there than here so maybe the stereotype is based somewhat on truth.

I seriously doubt that.

nkay1985

#15 wrote: »

I seriously doubt that.

It's all well and good to make a statement like that but what's caused you to form that opinion?

fruitbats

nkay1985 wrote: »

Before my years in college, my only knowledge of Americans was from what I saw on tv and read online. But, while in my second yearsin university, there were groups of Americans sending a semester in UL. I met two different groups, lived with a total of 4 of them and interacted quite a lot with around 50 of them. These students were all considered quite intelligent in the USA, having gotten high SAT (or equivalent) scores and gained admittance to some exclusive schools.

I couldn't believe it. The average level of intelligence appeared to be way lower than their Irish equivalents. There were some things that you can't hold against them, such as having very little world knowledge (from a group of 10 one night, one of them had vaguely heard of the Beslan tragedy which had only happened a couple of months previous) and having what I'd consider a very low level of English and poor vocabulary. These things can be partly explained by the dumbed-down media that seems to be the norm. But I was amazed at their level of knowledge of things that they were supposed to be specialising in in college. One guy was apparently really good at physics. I was a year younger than him and hadn't studied physics since the Leaving Cert and I could tell he didn't have a clue what he was talking about!

Another instance was a girl who lived with me who's best subject was history. She told me that she'd never gotten below an A- all through high school and two years of college. She started a history module at the same time as a couple of the Irish girls we knew, spent about twice as much time on an assignment as them and got a C while they got an A and a B respectively. She was distraught and was encouraged by her fellow Americans to go to the lecturer and question the grade. With red pen, he pointed out all the problems with her assignment. From what I remember, the assignment was poorly constructedand just not up to university standard.

So I've compared my peers here in Ireland with my peers from the USA first hand and I'd have to conclude that they are less intelligent. Whether that's caused by a bad education system or what, I don't know, but that was what I took from my experiences with them. I don't doubt that there are lots of highly intelligent Americans but my feeling is that the average level of intelligence would be lower there than here so maybe the stereotype is based somewhat on truth.

I have to say I enjoyed reading the last three pages of this thread. To answer the original argument and it’s not my opinion but more like the closest example of an scientific study to prove the facts. This quoted post seems to have gathered the most compelling evidence, so unless some body has done a proper study with this amount of exposure to American intellectual elite, then it seems that this evidence proves that Americans from this sample of the population are of less intelligence to what we call the norm.

Eve_Dublin

Americans have a lower level of intelligence than us?? That comment in itself is not a very intelligent one. So would you say that the people of Ghana are stupid because most of them haven´t been to university? So all the poor, uneducated people of the world are stupid and all of us rich, educated people are intelligent???

Since when did academic achievement equate to intelligence?

Sorry, it´s that kind of comment from an educated person that makes me wonder about the use of a university degree.

And using 50 people as a sample out of a population of 310,000,000 people is ridiculously UNintelligent (dare I say stupid). Your post oozes irony nkay1985

sceptre

fruitbats wrote: »

I have to say I enjoyed reading the last three pages of this thread. To answer the original argument and it’s not my opinion but more like the closest example of an scientific study to prove the facts. This quoted post seems to have gathered the most compelling evidence, so unless some body has done a proper study with this amount of exposure to American intellectual elite, then it seems that this evidence proves that Americans from this sample of the population are of less intelligence to what we call the norm.

I guess someone's going to have to tell you. Personal interaction with up to 50 of them doesn't constitute anywhere near a "proper study" or evidence any more compelling than anecdote (which isn't evidence). It's interesting to read but evidence of nothing. Please don't confuse anecdote with either evidence or proof - it just makes us Irish look less smart than we often reckon we are.

Byron85

The average American IQ is 98 and the average Irish IQ is 93. Take from that what you will. One thing I will say however is this; there is rampant anti-intellectualism in, not only America, but also in here in Ireland. I grew up in a small village where third level education is not only far from the norm, but it is almost frowned upon. Granted it is only an anecdote but it is rather indicative of life outside of the major urban areas in Ireland. I don't think we can afford be criticising another country's failings intellectually.

fruitbats

sceptre wrote: »

I guess someone's going to have to tell you. Personal interaction with up to 50 of them doesn't constitute anywhere near a "proper study" or evidence any more compelling than anecdote (which isn't evidence). It's interesting to read but evidence of nothing. Please don't confuse anecdote with either evidence or proof - it just makes us Irish look less smart than we often reckon we are.

Yes true!! I agree, but it’s a dam sight better then talking about once of incidents like some of the posts! And considering there is no worldwide comparison or completed standardisation available on this thread then a poor anecdote will have to do.

Again it’s not my opinion but just the only evidence available. If any one has a larger study, quote it and post it, thanks.

fruitbats

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

The average American IQ is 98 and the average Irish IQ is 93. Take from that what you will. One thing I will say however is this; there is rampant anti-intellectualism in, not only America, but also in here in Ireland. I grew up in a small village where third level education is not only far from the norm, but it is almost frowned upon. Granted it is only an anecdote but it is rather indicative of life outside of the major urban areas in Ireland. I don't think we can afford be criticising another country's failings intellectually.

Very true!! And if your stats are right, then on average we are a bit slower then our American counterparts!!!

Roro4Brit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RH0cYs4lw&feature=related


I know that if this guy was to hit Grafton St on any given day, as well as Oxford Street in London etc etc he would get many many stupid answers similar to our US friends....BUT I would be willing to be a month salary that the proportion of those who give stupid answers would be higher in the US than in Ireland.

nkay1985

sceptre wrote: »

I guess someone's going to have to tell you. Personal interaction with up to 50 of them doesn't constitute anywhere near a "proper study" or evidence any more compelling than anecdote (which isn't evidence). It's interesting to read but evidence of nothing. Please don't confuse anecdote with either evidence or proof - it just makes us Irish look less smart than we often reckon we are.

I wasn't trying to suggest that that was evidence in any way shape or form and I'm sorry if someone took me up that way. My post is purely anecdotal. When I said "I'd have to conclude that they are less intelligent" I was referring to the people I came across. They would have been considered intelligent in the USA but I didn't find them so. That's the sum of my conclusion.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Americans have a lower level of intelligence than us?? That comment in itself is not a very intelligent one. So would you say that the people of Ghana are stupid because most of them haven´t been to university? So all the poor, uneducated people of the world are stupid and all of us rich, educated people are intelligent???

Since when did academic achievement equate to intelligence?

Sorry, it´s that kind of comment from an educated person that makes me wonder about the use of a university degree.

And using 50 people as a sample out of a population of 310,000,000 people is ridiculously UNintelligent (dare I say stupid). Your post oozes irony nkay1985

Did you actually read my post? I was comparing people from the USA who were in third level education with Irish peole who were in third level education so that I could compare like-for-like as much as I could. If I had personal experience of Americans from inner city slums and personal experience of Irish from inner city slums, I could compare those two groups for myself. I don't. What I have is 12 months' interactions with 3rd level students from a wide Geographic area in the USA and 4 years' interactions with 3rd level students from a wide Geographic area in Ireland. Better to compare two peer groups I've met than randomly forming an opinion, surely?

I wasn't comparing them on academic achievement. I told two anecdotes from areas of interest of these people (which happen to be academic) which I felt were indicative of my experience of their intelligence over the course of 12 months. One guy was apparently very good at physics and had the grades to back up that assertion. He wasn't. One girl was apparently very good at history adn had the grades to back up that assertion. She wasn't. One metric of intelligence of a nation is the number and quality of its third level graduates. From my experiences, I'd conclude that high grades are easier to come by over there. That may nto be true but surely it's better to base an opinion on something you've observed rather than nothing at all?

I also stated how I found that the vast majority of the people I interacted with had very little world knowledge. I could go on telling anecdotes from the whole 12 months all night long and it wouldn't serve as proof one way or the other. I just personally felt, from interacting closely with a group of 50 or so of my intellectual peers from the USA, that they had a lower level of intelligence than their Irish counterparts. That's not empirical evidence. It's not a fact. It is purely a personal opinion and I'd prefer if I wasn't misrepresented.

You don't have to tell me that 50 is a ridiculous sample size if I were to try to present my conclusions as a fact. It is, however, a large enuogh sample size to form an educated opinion.

doolox

Maybe it is down to the way that Americans are more open with their opinions and knowledge, or perceived knowledge, than the Irish.
The Irish would be more inclined to hide inexpertise or lack of knowledge especially when in the company of people they perceive as their "betters".
The Americans let it all hang out, warts and all and the less educated ones become more obvious to the casual observer.

I'd say that the levels of expertise and knowledge in both countries is probably about the same but the economic circumstances and ability to wield political and military power puts America way ahead.

Killer Wench

nkay1985 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to suggest that that was evidence in any way shape or form and I'm sorry if someone took me up that way. My post is purely anecdotal. When I said "I'd have to conclude that they are less intelligent" I was referring to the people I came across. They would have been considered intelligent in the USA but I didn't find them so. That's the sum of my conclusion.



Did you actually read my post? I was comparing people from the USA who were in third level education with Irish peole who were in third level education so that I could compare like-for-like as much as I could. If I had personal experience of Americans from inner city slums and personal experience of Irish from inner city slums, I could compare those two groups for myself. I don't. What I have is 12 months' interactions with 3rd level students from a wide Geographic area in the USA and 4 years' interactions with 3rd level students from a wide Geographic area in Ireland. Better to compare two peer groups I've met than randomly forming an opinion, surely?

I wasn't comparing them on academic achievement. I told two anecdotes from areas of interest of these people (which happen to be academic) which I felt were indicative of my experience of their intelligence over the course of 12 months. One guy was apparently very good at physics and had the grades to back up that assertion. He wasn't. One girl was apparently very good at history adn had the grades to back up that assertion. She wasn't. One metric of intelligence of a nation is the number and quality of its third level graduates. From my experiences, I'd conclude that high grades are easier to come by over there. That may nto be true but surely it's better to base an opinion on something you've observed rather than nothing at all?

I also stated how I found that the vast majority of the people I interacted with had very little world knowledge. I could go on telling anecdotes from the whole 12 months all night long and it wouldn't serve as proof one way or the other. I just personally felt, from interacting closely with a group of 50 or so of my intellectual peers from the USA, that they had a lower level of intelligence than their Irish counterparts. That's not empirical evidence. It's not a fact. It is purely a personal opinion and I'd prefer if I wasn't misrepresented.

You don't have to tell me that 50 is a ridiculous sample size if I were to try to present my conclusions as a fact. It is, however, a large enuogh sample size to form an educated opinion.

With a population the size of 300 million and with 2-3 million people entering college every year (so, perhaps 2-3 people who are sophomore/junior level), a pool of 50 people is not an adequate size to form an educated opinion.

To me, it seems that your personal experiences simply reflect the differences in our educational system; it has nothing to do with the individual's level of intelligence but on how well their high school or university has prepared them.

Eve_Dublin

nkay1985 wrote: »

Did you actually read my post? I was comparing people from the USA who were in third level education with Irish peole who were in third level education so that I could compare like-for-like as much as I could. If I had personal experience of Americans from inner city slums and personal experience of Irish from inner city slums, I could compare those two groups for myself. I don't. What I have is 12 months' interactions with 3rd level students from a wide Geographic area in the USA and 4 years' interactions with 3rd level students from a wide Geographic area in Ireland. Better to compare two peer groups I've met than randomly forming an opinion, surely?

I wasn't comparing them on academic achievement. I told two anecdotes from areas of interest of these people (which happen to be academic) which I felt were indicative of my experience of their intelligence over the course of 12 months. One guy was apparently very good at physics and had the grades to back up that assertion. He wasn't. One girl was apparently very good at history adn had the grades to back up that assertion. She wasn't. One metric of intelligence of a nation is the number and quality of its third level graduates. From my experiences, I'd conclude that high grades are easier to come by over there. That may nto be true but surely it's better to base an opinion on something you've observed rather than nothing at all?

I also stated how I found that the vast majority of the people I interacted with had very little world knowledge. I could go on telling anecdotes from the whole 12 months all night long and it wouldn't serve as proof one way or the other. I just personally felt, from interacting closely with a group of 50 or so of my intellectual peers from the USA, that they had a lower level of intelligence than their Irish counterparts. That's not empirical evidence. It's not a fact. It is purely a personal opinion and I'd prefer if I wasn't misrepresented.

You don't have to tell me that 50 is a ridiculous sample size if I were to try to present my conclusions as a fact. It is, however, a large enuogh sample size to form an educated opinion.

Yep, I read your post. It wasn´t very difficult to understand and I don´t see how it could have been misinterpreted any other way. You came to a conclusion that Americans have a lower level of intelligence based on 50 people you interacted with and because they excelled in their fields of study in their own universities but not in Ireland.

Surely that says more about the university they attended in the US than their level of intelligence??? I´m guessing the didn´t all come from Harvard or Yale etc. did they? If that was the case those students would probably have gone to Trinity or UCD. UL is considered one of the better universities in Ireland (although we do have a smaller pool of unis to choose from and give that title) but not as "good" (in relation to academic achievement) as Trinity or UCD, so surely you´d have to compare like with like. If they excelled in their given area in their universities, it says more about the quality of teaching and grading than a reflection on their intelligence. Whats to say that they wouldn´t achieve high grades if they attended UL for their whole degree? What´s to say a person from the ghettos of Brazil who can barely read wouldn´t have the potential to become a rocket scientist if he was given the chance?

You see what I´m saying?

I went to college here in Ireland (3 years) and did my final year in England. The final year of my course in England was the equivalent to my 3rd year in Ireland....easy peasy. Should I draw the conclusion that I was more intelligent than my classmates because I found the year easy and had no problems getting a higher grade than most (as did all the Irish students...a few hundred of us) and therefore the English have a lower level of intelligence than we do? No, it says more about the university I attended and the extent to which these students were pushed by the lecturers.

Academic achievement is not a measurement of intelligence.

MarkR

Americans are sterotyped as stupid due to laziness. There are over 300 million seemingly, so a sweeping generalisation based on the tiny percentage of people you have met would be ridiculous. Basing this on people you have seen on the internet and television is even more so.

In any large population you will have a certain amount of people who are not shining examples of humanity.

blue_steel wrote: »

They are perceived as stupid because the majority of them are.

If someone was to take bluesteel as representative of Ireland, then the Irish could be considered to be a nation of swearing conspiracy theorists.

Fuinseog

doctorwu wrote: »

I was in a pub last night Ecuador v Ghana two Americian girls asking whats going on. Nice people but because they believe America is the center of the world theres no need to engage with Global concerns. On the other hand the ones that do are some of
greates thinkers in the free world.

they didn't even know Ghana was playing. how ignorant can they be!
on the other hand Ghana and even The World Cup is not the centre of everyone's universe. most people have better ways to spend their evening than watching the box.

Fuinseog

Einhard wrote: »

Eh, who standardises the English though? It's nonsense to suggest that English speakers from across the globe should aspire to speak the language as it's spoken in Oxbridge or somewhere similar. Diversity is the life blood of language; it's what's made English the rich and flexible language it is today. To demand standardisation is not only linguistic snobbery, but also seems to smack of cultural inferiority, and would actually damage the language.

so, if you are outside the village you don't need to attempt to speak in way that is readily understood?
you should take that up with RTE. they are always ripping he pee out of Jacie Healy Rae for speaking like a country bumpkin as opposed to the fine south side accent prevalent in RTE.

the_syco

Many of the Americans that I've read about are gifted in their areas.

Most of the Americans that I've heard are dumb. Most of the dumb ones on the TV act dumb, as they're not on TV to be clever.

You hear about Americans doing dumb things all the time, becuase as the saying goes, bad news travels fast. No-one bothers reading about the sh|t they do that gets them medals, it seems.

RepublicanEagle

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

If that was the case those students would probably have gone to Trinity or UCD. UL is considered one of the better universities in Ireland (although we do have a smaller pool of unis to choose from and give that title) but not as "good" (in relation to academic achievement) as Trinity or UCD.

IMO,I think it is wrong to put UCD in the same line as TCD, TCD is in a completely different league to UCD academically.There are many postgraduates who would agree UCC is far better than UCD. (Not saying that UCD is a poor choice.)

UL,I am not so sure,although it has a good reputation, especially for its sporting facilities.
Most people would say that the top universities in Ireland are Trinity College Dublin.,Queen's University Belfast and University College Cork.I would agree wholeheartedly.

Killer Wench

For those who base their opinion on American media, I would like to know what media?

Are we talking about music? Movies? Mainstream news? Television series?

I think some of our best is through our National Public Radio or our Public Broadcasting Service.