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O'Driscoll and Heaslip to Rebels?

  • 30-06-2010 10:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    http://www.rugby365.com/news/2511562.htm
    rugby365 wrote:
    The new Australian Super Rugby franchise, the Melbourne Rebels, have two leading Irish icons on their radar - captain Brian O'Driscoll and suspended loose forward Jamie Heaslip.
    Rebels assistant coach Damien Hill said they would be more than happy to talk to O'Driscoll if he decides that he'd like a stint Down Under after the conclusion of the 2011 World Cup.
    "He's an amazing footballer and if he were to express an interest we'd be more than happy to have a chat," Hill told The Evening Herald.
    "He's such a high quality player who sets high standards for himself and has good leadership skills too."
    O'Driscoll's Leinster teammate Heaslip, whose tour Down Under ended early after he received a five-week suspension in the loss to the All Blacks, has also refused to rule out a season abroad after next year's World Cup.
    Hill said there's no doubt the club would be eager to make contact with him also if that were the case after the tournament.
    "Jamie's a great player and of course we'd be interested in having a chat," Hill told the Herald.
    Danny Cipriani heads the group of foreign signings so far while former Wallabies captain Stirling Mortlock heads up the list of star Aussies signed up to the new club coached by World Cup winning boss Rod Macqueen, who has already admitted that he is interested in the Irish No 8.
    However, Hill said that no Irish player had contacted the club to display interest in making a move down under.
    He admitted that the timing of the World Cup and also exchange rates and tax incentives for players to remain in Ireland were a hurdle.
    "That might be why none of them have got in touch," he laughed.
    "The money overseas is a lot more, but in a way it's nice because we know that the guys we've recruited are coming here because they want the challenge of playing with a start-up club and that it's not all about money."
    Hill has been a long-time admirer of Irish rugby and kept a close eye on the development of players through the system.
    "I've spent a lot of time looking into the Irish rugby provincial system and I'm really impressed at how they develop players like Jamie Heaslip and how they use academies.
    "Irish rugby is in a good place because of that."

    Whatever about BOD after the World Cup, Heaslip would be a big loss. I'd prefer to see Irish players stating in Ireland...


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭outwest


    if heaslip did go it would end his irish career,

    i think this is just gossip


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    outwest wrote: »
    if heaslip did go it would end his irish career,

    i think this is just gossip

    Wouldn't rule out BOD after the WC but Heaslip has said that he'd like to play abroad. After the World Cup he'd be young enough to go to the S14 and experience a different way of playing and return.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭outwest


    ya, but if he went for a year or 2 he miss out on 20 caps, a lions tour, and some other number 8 could star for ireland,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭garbanzo


    Rugby . . . . phew. . . I thought they were being lined up by Conor Counihan to play for Cork this year !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    outwest wrote: »
    ya, but if he went for a year or 2 he miss out on 20 caps, a lions tour, and some other number 8 could star for ireland,

    All depends on what he wants, the prospect of playing rugby and spending two years in a place like Australia can be very attractive for a young player.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭Gelio


    Risteard wrote: »
    All depends on what he wants, the prospect of playing rugby and spending two years in a place like Australia can be very attractive for a young player.

    He said in rugby world he would like to play in France


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Diamondmaker


    Heaslip has said on the record he would like to play S14(5). He is not likely nor anyone, to go until after RWC though.

    Its not as uncommon for Irish guys to get sleected playing abroad, as the other way. WOnder would ROG have so many caps if he went to the Dolphns that time :pac:

    Murphy and Bowe to name but 2. One who has had many call ups and 1 current regular. I appreciate its the UK however.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Ciaran-Irl


    I doubt BOD would go anywhere, bar potentially France, after the world cup.

    He needs to be contracted in Ireland for a full year before retirement to avail of what would be a large tax rebate for him. It would be too much of a risk at the level of pay that the rebels could offer him. In France's super pay levels, it might make sense.

    Heaslip, on the other hand, should definitely go abroad for a year. All his mates would have traveled for a year by now, and why should he get a taste of that.

    He might miss a few Irish caps post world cup, but so what. Give someone else a shot. If he played at the top level in Australia, you can be damn sure he would make the Lions tour of... Australia. Think about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Who writes this rubbish??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    O Driscoll has been going to France as long as that horse in the Kerrygold ad. In fairness to the mighty one, who would want to pay big money for a guy with such mileage and past his peak (I am talking about another season and a half time).
    O Driscoll post RWC2011 will do well to start for Leinster.
    Don't Irish players use such gossip to increase their worth to the IRFU for a few years now?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    buck65 wrote: »
    Don't Irish players use such gossip to increase their worth to the IRFU for a few years now?
    For that to be effective, the IRFU would actually have to believe or worry about gossip.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    truthfully I can't see it happening. In BOD's case I would say there is no money in France and trutfully at his stage in his career that is why he might go for a year before he retires.

    In Jamies case I could see him going to oz for a year or 2 (probably wants to do the year away thing like anyone his age) but not to the Rebels, Why would he want to go to a team that truthfully aren't going to be competing for Honours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    For that to be effective, the IRFU would actually have to believe or worry about gossip.

    They believed it when ROG made out a French team was courting him (according to him that is).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    Trojan wrote: »
    They believed it when ROG made out a French team was courting him (according to him that is).

    True, and O Driscoll shamelessly courted Toulouse (? I think) where he was welcomed to the stadium before a game and spoke of maybe playing in France.
    Also Donncha O Callaghan was reported to be of interest to an English club and turned it down to sign another IRFU contract, you can bet your bottom dollar that in Celtic tiger times the IRFU had little problem in opening the chequebook to keep it's stars at home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    buck65 wrote: »
    O Driscoll has been going to France as long as that horse in the Kerrygold ad. In fairness to the mighty one, who would want to pay big money for a guy with such mileage and past his peak (I am talking about another season and a half time).
    Toulon and Racing Metro would. Stade Francais might too if it'd help sell jerseys. Their owners have big money, they don't care about the salaries to a certain extent.
    Trojan wrote: »
    They believed it when ROG made out a French team was courting him (according to him that is).
    Yeah, the Dolphins one was even worse. Circulated by his agent, one journo had the sense to ring the Dolphins who said they'd never heard of him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    buck65 wrote: »
    True, and O Driscoll shamelessly courted Toulouse (? I think) where he was welcomed to the stadium before a game and spoke of maybe playing in France.
    Also Donncha O Callaghan was reported to be of interest to an English club and turned it down to sign another IRFU contract, you can bet your bottom dollar that in Celtic tiger times the IRFU had little problem in opening the chequebook to keep it's stars at home.

    It was Biarritz that BOD courted. Stade Francais & Gloucester were after DOC (it was reported that he went and viewed their facilities).

    Stade Francais courted ROG - he describes in his book meeting the owner for dinner one night in Paris - he said he never had any intention of leaving Munster. I'm sure word would have got back to the IRFU about that.
    Yeah, the Dolphins one was even worse. Circulated by his agent, one journo had the sense to ring the Dolphins who said they'd never heard of him.

    O'Gara was seen socialising with the owner of the Dolphins at the Old Head of Kinsale Golfcourse - thats how it all started. It gathered legs when O'Gara didn't deny the rumours. EOS went through him for a shortcut for not denying them, according to O'Gara in his book.

    Edit: In fairness to them back then - most of them weren't on huge bucks. ROG was on about 40K a year up to that I think (2005).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Ciaran-Irl


    It was Biarritz that BOD courted. Stade Francais & Gloucester were after DOC (it was reported that he went and viewed their facilities).

    Stade Francais courted ROG - he describes in his book meeting the owner for dinner one night in Paris - he said he never had any intention of leaving Munster. I'm sure word would have got back to the IRFU about that.



    O'Gara was seen socialising with the owner of the Dolphins at the Old Head of Kinsale Golfcourse - thats how it all started. It gathered legs when O'Gara didn't deny the rumours. EOS went through him for a shortcut for not denying them, according to O'Gara in his book.

    Stade courted ROG, Stade Francais & Gloucester courted DOC, but BOD courted Biarritz? I think you'll find that BOD was headhunted a lot more than anyone else. He didn't go looking for offers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    Come on he showed up at a French league game , was introduced to the crowd and waved to the audience as if to say "I could be here again soon" he knew well what he was doing, I think he even stalled on signing a new contract in Ireland as the rumours gathered legs- the selective amnesia here is frightening.

    Actually I found the story it was Biarritz in 2005 that he courted (shamelesly)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/odriscoll-moves-closer-to-lucrative-biarritz-switch-507656.html

    Of course nothing wrong with a bit of bargaining he was well entitled to look for better offers and I'm sure it earned him another bundle of cash a year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Ciaran-Irl wrote: »
    Stade courted ROG, Stade Francais & Gloucester courted DOC, but BOD courted Biarritz? I think you'll find that BOD was headhunted a lot more than anyone else. He didn't go looking for offers.

    It was bucks who said that "True, and O Driscoll shamelessly courted Toulouse". ;)

    BOD's affair was conducted in public with Biarritz and some people might have thought he was a bit shameless. I see you chose to ignore the part where I said in fairness to them, they were not earning very much and seemed to be finding it tough going negotiating with the IRFU - didn't they go on strike about international match fees at one stage? BOD was an obvious one to test the IRFU as he was indespensible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    It was bucks who said that "True, and O Driscoll shamelessly courted Toulouse". ;)

    In fairness I did qualify that with a (? I think) disclaimer hg, come on this was 5 years ago, all those French teams look the same to me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    buck65 wrote: »
    In fairness I did qualify that with a (? I think) disclaimer hg, come on this was 5 years ago, all those French teams look the same to me.


    It was the "courted shamelessly" bit I was after and yes you did put the (?).

    He was rather shameless alright. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭outwest


    iif this is a stunt to get more money in a contract, i say let jamie go, call his bluff,

    too many player have done this, it has to stop at some point, i think the bod bit is true, after the world cup, he prob wont be selected for ireland again, nice way to finish off a great career


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    outwest wrote: »
    iif this is a stunt to get more money in a contract, i say let jamie go, call his bluff,

    too many player have done this, it has to stop at some point, i think the bod bit is true, after the world cup, he prob wont be selected for ireland again, nice way to finish off a great career

    I'm not sure if you're being serious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭outwest


    i am being serious.

    if this is a stunt for more money, then let him off


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    outwest wrote: »
    i am being serious.

    if this is a stunt for more money, then let him off

    He only gets one career and has every right to squeeze every penny out of it.

    Besides having Irelands best player play outside the country is nuts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    outwest wrote: »
    i am being serious.

    if this is a stunt for more money, then let him off

    I don't think its a stunt. According to the article above:
    ..." Hill said that no Irish player had contacted the club to display interest in making a move down under."

    Leinster would feel it more than Ireland if Heislip left. Jennings, Cullen, BOD, Horgan, Darcy all getting on. I don't think Leinster have a ready replacement and would probably have to get someone like Rocky Elsom back if he left. Ireland could still play him (if he went to France) and if he went downunder, there is still Leamy & Henry coming through now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    Heaslip could very well be the Parisse of the future Irish team. Let him go for a year and scratch his itch maybe but the IRFU should demand his return a la JdV in Munster.
    O Driscoll really after 2011rwc should go where the best offer is as he will have one or at tops 2 years left in him, no point in having regrets - look at Jonny Wilkinson and how his career has kickstarted in Toulon.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    I don't think its a stunt. According to the article above:


    Leinster would feel it more than Ireland if Heislip left. Jennings, Cullen, BOD, Horgan, Darcy all getting on. I don't think Leinster have a ready replacement and would probably have to get someone like Rocky Elsom back if he left. Ireland could still play him (if he went to France) and if he went downunder, there is still Leamy & Henry coming through now.

    Leamy isnt really coming through though. he was there before Heaslip and has stagnated even at Munster. Lets hope he can return to form after injury.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Leamy is 28, 29 in November, and already past his best.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭Gracelessly Tom


    He only gets one career and has every right to squeeze every penny out of it.

    Besides having Irelands best player play outside the country is nuts.

    +1, couldn't agree more. Why shouldn't a player try to get a better deal for himself? If any of us had the chance to do a similar thing with our jobs we'd jump at it, and I'm certain many people have used another job offer to get themselves a better package at their current employ. No different for rugby players.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    castie wrote: »
    Leamy isnt really coming through though. he was there before Heaslip and has stagnated even at Munster. Lets hope he can return to form after injury.

    Sorry, I wasn't clear. The reference to 'coming through' was for Henry. Obviouly with 40+ caps, Leamy has been there and done that.

    Leamy actually had come back into form when he got injured. He was tremendous in the Munster win down in France against Perp.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    danthefan wrote: »
    Leamy is 28, 29 in November, and already past his best.

    As was stated Leamy played the game of his life away to Perpignan when he got his latest injury. There is alot more to come from him when/if he returns to full fitness.


  • Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    buck65 wrote: »
    As was stated Leamy played the game of his life away to Perpignan when he got his latest injury. There is alot more to come from him when/if he returns to full fitness.

    That maybe so but its disingenuous to say that he is an up and comer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    That maybe so but its disingenuous to say that he is an up and comer

    No one said he was!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭redroar1942


    Sorry, I wasn't clear. The reference to 'coming through' was for Henry. Obviouly with 40+ caps, Leamy has been there and done that.

    Leamy actually had come back into form when he got injured. He was tremendous in the Munster win down in France against Perp.

    Very true and I was gutted for him when he got injured again. I hate to say it but he could struggle to reach that level again. The injuries must be taking a toll on him.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Meh, let Heaslip off, Leinster have plenty of young backrowers without having to bend over backwards to please one player.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Meh, let Heaslip off, Leinster have plenty of young backrowers without having to bend over backwards to please one player.

    What a load of ****e. Somehow I don't think you have Leinster's best interests at heart.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    danthefan wrote: »
    What a load of ****e. Somehow I don't think you have Leinster's best interests at heart.

    Why?

    The IRFU are threatening to close down Connacht because they can't afford to keep them open, we've reduced the number of central contracts (for example, neither Horan or d"arcy has one now and both will go to the RWC), we can't afford to play a team on the 7's circuit, we had to save money by not sending a team to the Churchill Cup, etc. Despite what fans think, we don't have a bottomless pit of money to draw from, the FAI could default on what they owe on Lansdowne, and if they do, they'll drag Irish rugby into serious trouble.

    All senior players are entitled to earn as much as they can, but it's pretty clear that may not be in Ireland. I wouldn't break the bank to keep Heaslip here. I value Connacht ahead of one player, I hope I'm not alone on that. I'd say the same if Flannery or whoever tried a similar stunt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭outwest


    well said


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Why?

    The IRFU are threatening to close down Connacht because they can't afford to keep them open, we've reduced the number of central contracts (for example, neither Horan or d"arcy has one now and both will go to the RWC), we can't afford to play a team on the 7's circuit, we had to save money by not sending a team to the Churchill Cup, etc. Despite what fans think, we don't have a bottomless pit of money to draw from, the FAI could default on what they owe on Lansdowne, and if they do, they'll drag Irish rugby into serious trouble.

    All senior players are entitled to earn as much as they can, but it's pretty clear that may not be in Ireland. I wouldn't break the bank to keep Heaslip here. I value Connacht ahead of one player, I hope I'm not alone on that. I'd say the same if Flannery or whoever tried a similar stunt.

    We don't have a bottomless pit of money but even less so do we have a bottomless pit of players. Allowing one of our best players to leave is a complete nonsense idea and I'm sure you'd have a very different view of things if he played for the province you support. And again it should be pointed out that no Irish player has contacted the Rebels looking to move there, Heaslip is not bargaining with them to push up his value.


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  • Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Otacon wrote: »
    No one said he was!

    I might have misinterpreted a post above


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    danthefan wrote: »
    We don't have a bottomless pit of money but even less so do we have a bottomless pit of players. Allowing one of our best players to leave is a complete nonsense idea and I'm sure you'd have a very different view of things if he played for the province you support. And again it should be pointed out that no Irish player has contacted the Rebels looking to move there, Heaslip is not bargaining with them to push up his value.

    I disagree, because we can't put the needs of one province ahead of the overall good of the game in Ireland.

    We're stoney broke, I wish we weren't, but we are. If Heaslip gets a great deal in France then goodbye and good luck, imo. Like I said, same with with a Munster player, Ulster or Connacht.

    If the FAI default on their commitments, you know the IRFU will have to pay up, do you think they are making cutbacks for a laugh?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 145 ✭✭Mini Driver


    I honestly think that Heaslip going to Oz for a year or 2 would be great for his game. Get a taste of Southern Hemisphere tactics,training,conditioning etc especially in the pack/scrum where Ireland have ALWAYS struggled in.

    He is still a young guy and has plenty of years left to come back to Ireland at the top of his game.

    If the IRFU refuse to let him play for Ireland while he is away then they are plain stupid... look at the influence that Southern Hemisphere coaches have had on the Irish game! Get some of our top players immersed in that for a year or two and they too can pass it on to the young guys coming through. Long term it will be great for Irish game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭outwest


    if he went to the rebels, he would be ruled out of the 6 nations. no team will sign a player only for him to be gone for the start of the season. france would be different. he could get a contract like wilkoson were he can go meet up eith national team for training.

    super 14 starts in feb.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    I disagree, because we can't put the needs of one province ahead of the overall good of the game in Ireland.

    We're stoney broke, I wish we weren't, but we are. If Heaslip gets a great deal in France then goodbye and good luck, imo. Like I said, same with with a Munster player, Ulster or Connacht.

    If the FAI default on their commitments, you know the IRFU will have to pay up, do you think they are making cutbacks for a laugh?

    Its looking increasing like a when rather then an if I fear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    outwest wrote: »
    if he went to the rebels, he would be ruled out of the 6 nations. no team will sign a player only for him to be gone for the start of the season. france would be different. he could get a contract like wilkoson were he can go meet up eith national team for training.

    super 14 starts in feb.

    If he were to move down under he'd still be eligible for the June and November tests and the Lions series. Whether he'd be picked is another thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    He only gets one career and has every right to squeeze every penny out of it.

    Besides having Irelands best player play outside the country is nuts.

    you mean second best... right?:pac:


  • Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭ Willow Bitter Mimicry


    I disagree, because we can't put the needs of one province ahead of the overall good of the game in Ireland.

    We're stoney broke, I wish we weren't, but we are. If Heaslip gets a great deal in France then goodbye and good luck, imo. Like I said, same with with a Munster player, Ulster or Connacht.

    If the FAI default on their commitments, you know the IRFU will have to pay up, do you think they are making cutbacks for a laugh?

    No they wont,how do you think contracts work?

    If the FAI default it is their problem and the banks come chasing them not the IRFU,it would then be up to them to service the debt probably through liquidation of assets.

    The IRFU and the FAI would both have sought funding seperately,not together as one entity,thus the IRFU are not liable.

    It would be interesting if they did default though,the banks would have to organise concerts and events at the stadium to make the money back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    :pac: I think there's a lot of wishfull thinking on a lot of people's part who'd like to see Leinster (a lot mor so than Ireland) lose players such as Heaslip and O'Driscoll.

    If Heaslip did do a stint abroad, primarily, it would NOT affect his international career, no more than Tommy Bowe, Heaslip is arguably the best player in the world in his position, and he is the Irish captain in waiting for when O'Driscoll retires. It's simple really, after the world cup, Heaslip will be offered a pay increase he would not get anywhere else in the world (except Touloun) and he will be made the Irish and Leinster captain. Rocky Elsom was brought back under similar bribary.

    As for O'Driscoll, I don't think he will leave Leinster until he is ready to retire, which may well be after the world cup, but if he does a season or two abroad, it'll be a lot more about seeing the world and experiencing rugby abroad than leaving Leinster, he'll wind down for a season or two abroad maybe to finish his career, but he's achieved absolutely everything in Irish and European rugby, so I don't blame him.

    I think from a Leinster point of view (god forbid - if there was EVER a time to say this) it would probably be the right time for O'Driscoll to go. There's a new era at Leinster and too many superb players coming through, it's interestnig the article points out the "Irish" academy system, but at Leinster, where 90% of the Irish talent is coming from, it's hard to expect the older guys to stay on forever when so many gifted players are coming through...who knows, by the next world cup, maybe Brendan Macken will be the greatest centre in the world, with McFadden at 12, O'Malley on the bench, Conway on the wing etc. etc. ... over half of the current Leinster squad are all academy graduates, and we've got to keep giving the youth a chance, and I think after the world cup we'll see a new, an in my opinion, far superior Leinster generation coming through, and looking at youth systems all over Europe, and where the top players are all coming from ineach national side, and the age of current first 15's, it's hard to see Leinster not being at the very fore front of European Rugby for the next decade and beyond.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,288 ✭✭✭crisco10


    If BOD leaves Ireland will he not lose a rake load of money by losing some tax break you get for finishing your career in Ireland? I remember hearing something about that, not too sure of the ins and outs of that tax break...


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